Shooting At Florida Airport

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**DarkTraveler777**

Nostromodamus wrote:
Edit: Never mind, we keep addressing each other's issues simultaneously

Yeah, all good.

To be clear, I don't know if the gun and ammo were in one bag or multiple. Oldravenman3025's post suggests that the ammo was likely in a separate bag which makes a lot more sense to me from a procedural point of view.

Again, I've never flown with any of my firearms so I don't know the TSA procedures. Considering how much scrutiny things like shampoo get, I was just surprised to read that this guy flew across country with the ingredients for a shooting.

Flying with a checked and empty gun seems reasonable to me. Flying with a checked box of ammo also seems reasonable. Flying with both an empty gun and ammo seems like it should raise some red flags.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

CptJake wrote:
DarkTraveler777 wrote:
Peregrine wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

DarkTraveler777 wrote:
If you check your bags you can carry a weapon and ammunition in them? I've never needed to fly with a firearm so I am surprised by this, frankly.

What's so surprising? Checked bags are the ones carried in the cargo hold, they're inaccessible to the owner while they're in secure areas. The only places where the owner would have access to their weapon are the unsecured areas where someone with a gun could walk in the door and start shooting. So why wouldn't you be able to travel with a gun in your checked bags?

I am not surprised you can check a weapon. I am surprised you can check a weapon AND ammo in the same bag. My surprise is based on what is possible when you allow someone to carry both elements on them. You get this situation where someone can easily begin popping off rounds in an airport.

Perhaps it is the Californian in me that has to carry ammo in my vehicle in a separate and secure location from the firearm I am also carrying in the same vehicle. Keeping both items in the same bag in an airport seems like a bad idea. Hence my surprise. Sorry if that bothered you.

Frankly, it is easier to drive up to the airport locked and loaded and walk into the baggage claim area and open fire. Two different bags for the guy flying makes zero difference to the likelihood of this happening.

Yeah, but there are usually police outside the airport so if Rambo showed up "locked and loaded" there might be intervention. Some random dude ducking into the baggage claim bathroom and coming out with a live weapon is more under the radar. So I still am surprised that passengers are allowed to carry fire arms and live ammunition in their luggage.

**CptJake**

Shampoo gets no scrutiny if it is in checked baggage. It is carry on where it is limited in size to 2 ounces or whatever.

Why should flying with ammo and a gun raise flags? That is ludicrous. You need both for either to be of any use. Why would you only bring one of the two?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

DarkTraveler777 wrote:

Yeah, but there are usually police outside the airport so if Rambo showed up "locked and loaded" there might be intervention. Some random dude ducking into the baggage claim bathroom and coming out with a live weapon is more under the radar. So I still am surprised that passengers are allowed to carry fire arms and live ammunition in their luggage.

Those same cops are all over the baggage claim and other areas of the airport. What is your point?

**Peregrine**

DarkTraveler777 wrote:
Flying with a checked and empty gun seems reasonable to me. Flying with a checked box of ammo also seems reasonable. Flying with both an empty gun and ammo seems like it should raise some red flags.

Why? Bringing the ammo along with your gun saves you the cost and time of having to buy more when you arrive, and then throw away any that you didn't use before you get on the return flight.

Yeah, but there are usually police outside the airport so if Rambo showed up "locked and loaded" there might be intervention.

Why? Hide the gun(s) in a bag and you're just one more worried traveler rushing to catch their plane. The guns wouldn't be visible until seconds before the shooting starts, at which point it's far too late for the police to do anything.

**DarkTraveler777**

CptJake wrote:Shampoo gets no scrutiny if it is in checked baggage. It is carry on where it is limited in size to 2 ounces or whatever.

Why should flying with ammo and a gun raise flags?

Well, if we are going off the theory that this guy traveled with both, and then went into a bathroom or some other discreet area and used them on his victims, then that is the reason traveling with both should raise flags.

But I already see this turning into a pro-gun/anti-gun debate that I want no part of.

I voiced my surprise, people chimed in with the TSA regulations, and that is that.

I am ducking out of this thread because I don't want to continually rehash "why" flying with a gun and ammo surprises me.

**d-usa**

I think the shooting at the OKC airport a few months ago shows that there isn't much functional difference between flying with checked weapons and driving up to an airport with weapons.

**Breotan**

Sadly this just points out one of the flaws in airport security. It's all about securing the safety of the PLANES, not the people. I suppose it might not have made any difference had he retrieved his gun outside baggage claim, but still...

Currently, as security stands, a group of people could walk into an airport armed to the teeth and open fire on the people standing in line at the security checkpoint and achieve as many deaths as getting ahold of a plane could cause.

**Hordini**

Breotan wrote:
Sadly this just points out one of the flaws in airport security. It's all about securing the safety of the PLANES, not the people. I suppose it might not have made any difference had he retrieved his gun outside baggage claim, but still...

Currently, as security stands, a group of people could walk into an airport armed to the teeth and open fire on the people standing in line at the security checkpoint and achieve as many deaths as getting ahold of a plane could cause.

That's true, but that's pretty much true for any crowded area, with or without a crowded security checkpoint.

**Dreadclaw69**

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/713376.page

Police in Florida have questioned a suspected gunman after five people were killed and eight injured in a shooting at Fort Lauderdale airport.

The suspect has been identified by police as 26-year-old Esteban Santiago, an Iraq war veteran.

Officials say they have not ruled out terrorism as a possible motive.

US media say the man may have been mentally disturbed. He reportedly said the government was controlling his mind and made him watch jihadist videos.

The attacker opened fire at the baggage claim area of Terminal 2 as passengers were collecting their luggage. Witnesses said he walked along the carousals and did not say anything as he shot people who were trying to run or hide.

He surrendered to police when he ran out of ammunition, witnesses added.

The man, who was wearing a Star Wars T-shirt, had travelled from Alaska, officials said. He checked in an unloaded gun and ammunition with his luggage, and loaded the semi-automatic gun in the bathroom after landing and collecting his bag.

The suspect is a former member of the Puerto Rico and Alaska National Guard

"We are looking at all avenues. We have not ruled out terrorism and we will be pursuing every angle to try to determine the motive behind this attack," the FBI's George Piro told journalists.

Sheriff Scott Israel earlier said it appeared that the suspect had acted alone.

Mr Santiago is expected to face federal charges and make his first appearance in court on Monday.

The suspect is a former member of the Puerto Rico and Alaska National Guard, according to the Pentagon. He served in Iraq from April 2010 to February 2011, and ended his service in August 2016.

US media reported that he had received a general discharge from the Alaska National Guard for unsatisfactory performance.

Hundreds of people were forced to wait on the airport tarmac for police to clear the terminal

Mr Piro said that Mr Santiago had turned up at an FBI office in his hometown of Anchorage, Alaska, in November, behaving erratically and was turned over to local police, who took him to a medical facility for a mental evaluation.

"We looked at his contacts, we did our inter-agency checks and everything and, at that point, we closed our assessment," he added, saying that Mr Santiago had "clearly" stated that he did not intend to harm anyone.

An unnamed official quoted by AP news agency said that Mr Santiago told FBI agents back then that the US government was controlling his mind and making him watch videos from so-called Islamic State (IS).

His brother said he had been receiving psychological treatment recently.

A White House spokesman said President Barack Obama had expressed his condolences to the relatives of the victims. In a tweet, President-elect Donald Trump sent his "thoughts and prayers".

First responders secure the area outside the Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International airport after a shooting took place near the baggage claimImage copyrightGETTY IMAGES

Flying with firearms is legal in the US as long as the guns are kept in a locked, hard-sided container as checked baggage only, under rules of the Transport Security Administration (TSA). Ammunition is also allowed only in checked luggage.

The attack was the latest in a series of mass shootings in the US in recent years, carried out by people who said they were inspired by jihadist groups, loners or mentally disturbed, who had easy access to weapons under US gun laws.

Last year, in the worst shooting in recent US history, a man, apparently inspired by IS, killed 49 people at a gay nightclub in Orlando, Florida.

Sounds like he complied with the legal restrictions on transporting a firearm, but he had some mental health challenges.

**LordofHats**

But is he Amish?

**Hordini**

LordofHats wrote:
But is he Amish?

Sounds like no.

**reds8n**

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2017/01/06/inside-the-alt-right-s-florida-airport-shooter-esteban-santiago-hoax.html

bodes well.

Hope any and all Dakkanauts & their friends, families etc are all safe.

**Crazyterran**

As someone who works at a Canadian airport, I would be perfectly fine if your loons or our loons were not allowed to bring ammunition when they travel.

Or anyone traveling with ammunition. Don't think of it as a negative, think of it as supporting the local economy. :p

**Frankenberry**

I just saw this on my morning 'check the news' dash across the web - how sad.

From the bits I've read this guy was reported to have gone to his local PD in Alaska, firearm in his car, ammo on his person, and said that he was hearing voices and felt like he was being controlled by a US intelligence agency. Looks like the state removed the firearm from his possession but gave it back in December when no wrongdoing could be proven.

Two things:
1 - the lack of mental care, I believe, contributed more to this than anything else. Reports say that he was seeking help, which probably means a psychiatrist or perhaps medication, but this was someone who clearly had violent leanings and was instead allowed to continue their daily business. Maybe if he had been committed, things would not have turned out as they did.

2 - I find it strange that the shooter had the mental capacity to check his weapon and ensuing myriad of obstacles to fly from Alaska to Florida, and then start shooting up the place. There's a part of me that wonders just how 'crazy' he was - it's a long way to go to randomly shoot up an airport - and a remarkably involved plan as well.

**Vaktathi**

Crazy doesn't mean incapable of doing things. It means you do crazy things. Lots of people with severe mental disorders can seem perfectly normal most of the time and handle things like checking firearms, filling out paperwork at the DMV, doing complex math, etc.

It's the voice that's telling them to shoot stuff up 4000 miles away that's the problem, not their ability to function.

**Frankenberry**

Vaktathi wrote:
Crazy doesn't mean incapable of doing things. It means you do crazy things. Lots of people with severe mental disorders can seem perfectly normal most of the time and handle things like checking firearms, filling out paperwork at the DMV, doing complex math, etc.

It's the voice that's telling them to shoot stuff up 4000 miles away that's the problem, not their ability to function.

/shrug

Just raising a point I thought was valid.

**Vaktathi**

I wasn't trying to harangue you or anything there, just pointing out crazy comes in many forms

**Ouze**

reds8n wrote:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2017/01/06/inside-the-alt-right-s-florida-airport-shooter-esteban-santiago-hoax.html

bodes well.

Hope any and all Dakkanauts & their friends, families etc are all safe.

I just made my first visit to Allen West's website to see if the story was still there. Anyone trying to extract news from that massive clickbait gak farm gets exactly what they deserve.

**ScootyPuffJunior**

Ouze wrote:
I just made my first visit to Allen West's website to see if the story was still there.

One does not simply vist Allen West's website. Its URLs are guarded by more than just trolls. There is evil there that does not sleep, and the Great Eye is ever watchful. It is a barren wasteland, riddled with flame wars and race-baiting and conspiracy theories, the very air you breathe is a poisonous fume of clickbait and fake news. Not with ten-thousand clicks could you do this. It is folly.

Anyone trying to extract news from that massive clickbait gak farm gets exactly what they deserve.

Hopefully that entails a swift kick in the groin.

**MrDwhitey**

I went there and was impressed at how many clickbait titles were fit into a single page at once that wasn't reddit.