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 Battlegrinder wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
Well, chapters have favourings and talents. All White Scars are expected to perfect their biking, jump packs are heavily favoured in Raven Guard and Blood Angels, flame and hammers in Sallies. If a Captain has a taste, he probably trains his troops in the same fashion.

Deathwatch is about using each Marine to his best. It would be silly not to give the White Scar, who has been training as a biker his whole career even if he's a devastator or whatever, a bike and let him use his superior skill with it to advantage. Likewise, most Marines probably pick gear they feel best with. Sallies heavily favour fire so the Sally would pick Flamers. THe IF, who'se chapter focuses on heavy firepower (simplified stereotype version), would pick up a big gun, and the Raven Guard would pick gear that Shrike and many others, including his Primarch, liked, and was likely trained heavily in during his career.

The issue being you're still assuming they're all like that, when they're not. Sure, salamanders like fire and hitting stuff with hammers, but that means they might have, like, 1 or 2 more guys per squad with one of those vs a normal chapter, and everyone else is just another dude with a bolter. Ditto fists (and really, if you want a chapter focused on heavy firepower you're looking for Star Phantoms), and Ravens, sure they have more guys like that than the norm, but not all of them are like that. And yet for some reason that's all we get in the death watch kits.

Incorrect, reread what I wrote. They are all like that because they are all trained in those particular tactics and traits by the chapter. Only a small percentage of those Astartes would actually be using said tactics on a regular basis, they are all trained to a standard where if the whole chapter deployed as (X) they would be more capable than the average Astartes from a chapter that didn't specialise in such tactics. Hence, when they reach the Deathwatch, which focuses on specialisation and diverse squads, of course they would give the flamer to a Salamander and the Raven Guard a jump pack. That might not be the preferred tactic of that particular Marine, but he's going to be much better at it than anyone else in the Killteam (especially in case of White Scars, who try to bike at all opportunities and take it to Mid-Life Crisis level obsession).

Why do they not put non-first founding chapters in? Those chapters are just filler. Some of those get fleshed out into larger parts of the setting (Astral Claws, Minotaurs, Blood Ravens, Carcharadons, etc), but they are still just filler material to appeal to those who want to be edgy and not pick the First Founding, who are the real and only stars of the show. The Star Phantoms or the Howling Griffons or whoever, are the helper character who appears to help out Superman for 3 issues and then is written off until fans demand he gets his own comic. Or the character on a sitcom or drama that gets a 1 or 2 half-season spin-off and then gets cancelled. They don't matter and if GW fed the Griffons or the Iron Lords or whoever to the Tyranids tomorrow, a handful of people would be upset but in 2 years move on and be relegated to "I'm still mad about them getting squatted but I have my own headcanon that makes them alive and I can continue to have my snowflake marines." But if one of the 9 originals got wiped out, that's a game/setting-changer.
So therefore, they don't care about the filler stuff, they want the important chapters in.

Note on the Blood Ravens; they're a special case because they started non-canon and became models (DW Libby), due to overwhelming popularity and also the fact GW probably made a feth-load of money from them/DoW series.

 Deadshot wrote:

 Battlegrinder wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
Well, chapters have favourings and talents. All White Scars are expected to perfect their biking, jump packs are heavily favoured in Raven Guard and Blood Angels, flame and hammers in Sallies. If a Captain has a taste, he probably trains his troops in the same fashion.

Deathwatch is about using each Marine to his best. It would be silly not to give the White Scar, who has been training as a biker his whole career even if he's a devastator or whatever, a bike and let him use his superior skill with it to advantage. Likewise, most Marines probably pick gear they feel best with. Sallies heavily favour fire so the Sally would pick Flamers. THe IF, who'se chapter focuses on heavy firepower (simplified stereotype version), would pick up a big gun, and the Raven Guard would pick gear that Shrike and many others, including his Primarch, liked, and was likely trained heavily in during his career.

The issue being you're still assuming they're all like that, when they're not. Sure, salamanders like fire and hitting stuff with hammers, but that means they might have, like, 1 or 2 more guys per squad with one of those vs a normal chapter, and everyone else is just another dude with a bolter. Ditto fists (and really, if you want a chapter focused on heavy firepower you're looking for Star Phantoms), and Ravens, sure they have more guys like that than the norm, but not all of them are like that. And yet for some reason that's all we get in the death watch kits.

Incorrect, reread what I wrote. They are all like that because they are all trained in those particular tactics and traits by the chapter. Only a small percentage of those Astartes would actually be using said tactics on a regular basis, they are all trained to a standard where if the whole chapter deployed as (X) they would be more capable than the average Astartes from a chapter that didn't specialise in such tactics. Hence, when they reach the Deathwatch, which focuses on specialisation and diverse squads, of course they would give the flamer to a Salamander and the Raven Guard a jump pack. That might not be the preferred tactic of that particular Marine, but he's going to be much better at it than anyone else in the Killteam (especially in case of White Scars, who try to bike at all opportunities and take it to Mid-Life Crisis level obsession).

Why do they not put non-first founding chapters in? Those chapters are just filler. Some of those get fleshed out into larger parts of the setting (Astral Claws, Minotaurs, Blood Ravens, Carcharadons, etc), but they are still just filler material to appeal to those who want to be edgy and not pick the First Founding, who are the real and only stars of the show. The Star Phantoms or the Howling Griffons or whoever, are the helper character who appears to help out Superman for 3 issues and then is written off until fans demand he gets his own comic. Or the character on a sitcom or drama that gets a 1 or 2 half-season spin-off and then gets cancelled. They don't matter and if GW fed the Griffons or the Iron Lords or whoever to the Tyranids tomorrow, a handful of people would be upset but in 2 years move on and be relegated to "I'm still mad about them getting squatted but I have my own headcanon that makes them alive and I can continue to have my snowflake marines." But if one of the 9 originals got wiped out, that's a game/setting-changer.
So therefore, they don't care about the filler stuff, they want the important chapters in.

Note on the Blood Ravens; they're a special case because they started non-canon and became models (DW Libby), due to overwhelming popularity and also the fact GW probably made a feth-load of money from them/DoW series.

IIRC the amount of specialization (and by extension the likelihood of filling a stereotyped role in the DW) is basically based on how divergent the chapter is from the (I apologize for bringing it up, but it is relevant) Codex Astartes. The Codex Astartes is basically designed to produce generalists, and most chapters that follow it are fairly well rounded, so the best of that chapter are less likely to be the stereotype gimmick marine when they get elevated to Deathwatch. For example, the Salamanders are all trained to repair and upgrade their gear (which is not in Rowboat's Codex), so any Salamanders in the DW will probably have that technical expertise. On the other hand Imperial Fists are fairly codex-adherent in the 41st millennium, so Deathwatch Imperial Fists marines don't have as much of a propensity for a specific role.

At least that's how I remember it. Feel free to correct me.

yeah the Deathwatch RPG would be your best source

 Deadshot wrote:

 Battlegrinder wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
Well, chapters have favourings and talents. All White Scars are expected to perfect their biking, jump packs are heavily favoured in Raven Guard and Blood Angels, flame and hammers in Sallies. If a Captain has a taste, he probably trains his troops in the same fashion.

Deathwatch is about using each Marine to his best. It would be silly not to give the White Scar, who has been training as a biker his whole career even if he's a devastator or whatever, a bike and let him use his superior skill with it to advantage. Likewise, most Marines probably pick gear they feel best with. Sallies heavily favour fire so the Sally would pick Flamers. THe IF, who'se chapter focuses on heavy firepower (simplified stereotype version), would pick up a big gun, and the Raven Guard would pick gear that Shrike and many others, including his Primarch, liked, and was likely trained heavily in during his career.

The issue being you're still assuming they're all like that, when they're not. Sure, salamanders like fire and hitting stuff with hammers, but that means they might have, like, 1 or 2 more guys per squad with one of those vs a normal chapter, and everyone else is just another dude with a bolter. Ditto fists (and really, if you want a chapter focused on heavy firepower you're looking for Star Phantoms), and Ravens, sure they have more guys like that than the norm, but not all of them are like that. And yet for some reason that's all we get in the death watch kits.

Incorrect, reread what I wrote. They are all like that because they are all trained in those particular tactics and traits by the chapter. Only a small percentage of those Astartes would actually be using said tactics on a regular basis, they are all trained to a standard where if the whole chapter deployed as (X) they would be more capable than the average Astartes from a chapter that didn't specialise in such tactics. Hence, when they reach the Deathwatch, which focuses on specialisation and diverse squads, of course they would give the flamer to a Salamander and the Raven Guard a jump pack. That might not be the preferred tactic of that particular Marine, but he's going to be much better at it than anyone else in the Killteam (especially in case of White Scars, who try to bike at all opportunities and take it to Mid-Life Crisis level obsession).

Why do they not put non-first founding chapters in? Those chapters are just filler. Some of those get fleshed out into larger parts of the setting (Astral Claws, Minotaurs, Blood Ravens, Carcharadons, etc), but they are still just filler material to appeal to those who want to be edgy and not pick the First Founding, who are the real and only stars of the show. The Star Phantoms or the Howling Griffons or whoever, are the helper character who appears to help out Superman for 3 issues and then is written off until fans demand he gets his own comic. Or the character on a sitcom or drama that gets a 1 or 2 half-season spin-off and then gets cancelled. They don't matter and if GW fed the Griffons or the Iron Lords or whoever to the Tyranids tomorrow, a handful of people would be upset but in 2 years move on and be relegated to "I'm still mad about them getting squatted but I have my own headcanon that makes them alive and I can continue to have my snowflake marines." But if one of the 9 originals got wiped out, that's a game/setting-changer.
So therefore, they don't care about the filler stuff, they want the important chapters in.

Note on the Blood Ravens; they're a special case because they started non-canon and became models (DW Libby), due to overwhelming popularity and also the fact GW probably made a feth-load of money from them/DoW series.

Right? I don't get why people find it so hard to acknowledge