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Second Story Man





Astonished of Heck

 Chillreaper wrote:
There's a reference to the Mad Cat's appearance the first time it's seen in the novels.

The Inner Sphere pilot who sees it has a problem with his IFF systems that keep tagging it as both a Marauder and a Catapult at the same time - it couldn't settle on one chassis type. As a result, the Inner Sphere name for the Timber Wolf became the Mad Cat.

Exactly, which is why calling that came out first a knockoff of something that came later is "funny".

There are some similarities between the Catapult and Marauder, but only the most basic. The Catapult's hull was far more bullet-shaped, while the Marauder's hull was more bulbous in places giving a far more anime vibe. It would be like comparing the Atlas with the Crusader, in more ways then one.

I do like what Piranha Games did with those anime knockoffs (also known as "Unseen"), and they are sufficiently different that Catalyst is working to get physical models akin to them made.

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 Charistoph wrote:
 Chillreaper wrote:
There's a reference to the Mad Cat's appearance the first time it's seen in the novels.

The Inner Sphere pilot who sees it has a problem with his IFF systems that keep tagging it as both a Marauder and a Catapult at the same time - it couldn't settle on one chassis type. As a result, the Inner Sphere name for the Timber Wolf became the Mad Cat.

Exactly, which is why calling that came out first a knockoff of something that came later is "funny".


It'd be even funnier if I hadn't already corrected my error.
   
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 Charistoph wrote:


I do like what Piranha Games did with those anime knockoffs (also known as "Unseen"), and they are sufficiently different that Catalyst is working to get physical models akin to them made.



Not quite. Catalyst and Piranha don't have a ton of interaction. Catalyst isn't releasing any miniatures based on anything in MWO, and they have no plans to do so. The "Newseen" are being done by Catalyst without regard to the computer stuff. Those redesigns were in the works long before PGI started doing them.

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 Mattlov wrote:
Not quite. Catalyst and Piranha don't have a ton of interaction. Catalyst isn't releasing any miniatures based on anything in MWO, and they have no plans to do so. The "Newseen" are being done by Catalyst without regard to the computer stuff. Those redesigns were in the works long before PGI started doing them.

I did say they were "akin", not the same. And considering the time frames involved, I question this assertion.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/21 15:01:35


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 Charistoph wrote:
 Mattlov wrote:
Not quite. Catalyst and Piranha don't have a ton of interaction. Catalyst isn't releasing any miniatures based on anything in MWO, and they have no plans to do so. The "Newseen" are being done by Catalyst without regard to the computer stuff. Those redesigns were in the works long before PGI started doing them.

I did say they were "akin", not the same. And considering the time frames involved, I question this assertion.


3D printed miniatures based off of the MWO copyright are banned from the official Battletech forums, there is definitely not any cooperation to have minis produced.

The idea of the "NewSeen" have been around since the Reseen were created. It was TOO dramatic a shift away from the original designs, and the idea has been working for some time. Especially after the amazing art some people made on their own. Catalyst then began redesigning them at a slow rate, and have been showing them off as recently as 2 years ago.

The MWO Warhammer released in January of 2016.

The "NewSeen" Warhammer was previewed at GenCon in 2015. This mostly likely means Catalyst was working on them BEFORE PGI was.

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 Mattlov wrote:
3D printed miniatures based off of the MWO copyright are banned from the official Battletech forums, there is definitely not any cooperation to have minis produced.

A pointless statement. This is assuming that anything produced by Catalyst Labs falls under this category. A 3D print of the metal Atlas would fall under the same category.

 Mattlov wrote:
The idea of the "NewSeen" have been around since the Reseen were created. It was TOO dramatic a shift away from the original designs, and the idea has been working for some time. Especially after the amazing art some people made on their own. Catalyst then began redesigning them at a slow rate, and have been showing them off as recently as 2 years ago.

The MWO Warhammer released in January of 2016.

The "NewSeen" Warhammer was previewed at GenCon in 2015. This mostly likely means Catalyst was working on them BEFORE PGI was.

And the Plastic NewSeen Warhammer has yet to be released. Admittedly, it is far easier to release a model for a video game than it is a plastic model for a tabletop game. But the development of the MWO Warhammer just didn't happen on January 2016, but was in development long before then. I know because I preordered it months before its release and it had been advertised, image and all, for some time before my order. The final MWO model design would have been set by GenCon 2015 in August, at the latest. And it wouldn't take much communication to connect the two companies to share a design.

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The plastic NewSeens are not being released yet. The intention (last I knew) was to release several in a box at once. A few have been released in metal already, the Shadow Hawk, and Wasp, with the Flea and Locust coming shortly IIRC.

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so ive been playing the ever living crap out of this game with my mates when I was away, and now I want to start a campaign.

So any recommendations on period or tech levels, shall I allow customs or just modifications? frankenmechs?

   
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 Chillreaper wrote:
 Charistoph wrote:
 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Catapult (albeit a bit of a Mad Cat knockoff, but still ...)

Very funny. Just like Star Trek is a Galaxy Quest knockoff...


Nope.

The Marauder is a Mad Cat knockoff... erm... or was it the Catapult? No, no. Definitely the Marauder - I mean Catapult dammit!

I'm so confused...


That is because they are freebirth barbarians who do not know a Timber Wolf when they see one.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/26 20:52:08


n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

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Orlanth wrote:That is because they are freebirth barbarians who do not know a Timber Wolf when they see one.

Well, when you hide away in a tiny corner of the galaxy for over 200 years without any phone calls or letters, it's hard to recognize your work. I mean, your grandmothers' have been worried to death waiting for word, and you just run off and have a revolution without letting anyone else know about them.

Formosa wrote:so ive been playing the ever living crap out of this game with my mates when I was away, and now I want to start a campaign.

So any recommendations on period or tech levels, shall I allow customs or just modifications? frankenmechs?

A lot depends on what your group is capable of. There used to be some really interesting campaign packs (and I don't know how available they are now) that covered things like the Battles of Luthien and Coventry. Then there are the RPG campaigns which can interact with that.

But off hand, I would start off with stock machines. They may be variants depending on the time frame, or whatever. But by the end of the campaign, you want them to be frankenmechs to act as a trophy rack of their progress in the campaign's story. At least, that's how I would do it.

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Its pretty big here with the ColoradoBattletech guys in Parker and on facebook.
   
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 Formosa wrote:
so ive been playing the ever living crap out of this game with my mates when I was away, and now I want to start a campaign.

So any recommendations on period or tech levels, shall I allow customs or just modifications? frankenmechs?


As far as time period or tech levels, whatever your group are comfortable and happy with running really is the best. If you're not already up to speed with level 3 rules and equipment it's probably best to avoid that for now.

I would definitely allow modifications, especially once the campaign is under way since lack of ammunition or replacement parts may necessitate swapping some weapons out for others, even more so if you're using Omnimechs, that was the point of them after all. Custom mechs can be good for a bit of extra variety, but they're not always popular plus there are so many official versions out there that in all honesty there's probably a published mech pretty close to whatever homebrew you're designing anyway. That said, the old group I used to be in freely allowed custom mechs with the conditions that a custom mech had to be represented by a custom model to prevent confusion and due to the number of quite basic mistakes that were made the sheet had to be checked and signed by at least one of the more experienced members of the group. Sounds a bit officious, but it cut the errors down to practically zero.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/03/27 11:07:50


 
   
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If you want a more "set" campaign and rules, pick up the Chaos Campaign PDF. It helps keep things more simple, but still allows for personal flavor.

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 thekingofkings wrote:
Its pretty big here with the ColoradoBattletech guys in Parker and on facebook.

Size means little. It is the ability for people to come together regularly, abide by rules, and stick to something long term which makes it possible.

You can also plan rewards out for customization like certain missions that they secure X objectives they gain X tech to add to their 'Mechs, or they get an empty Timber Wolf (all pods empty, but otherwise good), things like that.

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 thekingofkings wrote:
Its pretty big here with the ColoradoBattletech guys in Parker and on facebook.


Good to know, I'll look that group up. I commute up that direction every day from the Springs.

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Miniatures aside...

Classic Battletech is great for "dueling" with 1 or 2 mechs per side fighting. Start stepping up to Lances or Stars and prepare to spend an entire day playing a single game. That was always the frustrating thing about the game. For it's time, it was a very innovative system using a resource to limit your effectiveness (heat), and the granularity of the combat was both it's biggest advantage and weakness.

Alphastrike is much, much better IMO, but loses something when you know the lore or a mech's loadout. You have one attack, and you get to decide regular, or alphastrike. Heat is still present, but it doesn't feel like a resource to manage, but a consequence of my actions to be dealt with later. Damage feels non-specific compared to the base game, but that just dramatically speeds up the game.

A "good game" of battletech can really only be achieved when both sides have the same tech levels. Even then, I hesitate to play Inner Sphere vs. Clan, just because Inner Sphere still needs some kind of advantage until you get into the 3065+ era.

Don't even get me started on "design your own mechs".

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 Tamwulf wrote:
Even then, I hesitate to play Inner Sphere vs. Clan, just because Inner Sphere still needs some kind of advantage until you get into the 3065+ era.

And even after 3065, Clan tech still is vastly superior in many ways, it is just starts becoming accessible as something other than salvage around that time.

One of the biggest problems with Mechwarrior Online's Faction Play was that they set up the matchs as being 12v12. That's 12 IS players vs 12 Clan players. Never mind the lack of fluff that puts Clanners in units of 12, rather than their 10 or 15. They also have 4 'Mechs that all players get to bring in. In one match I was in the IS unit I was in was attacking a Clan position. Out of 48 'Mechs, I think we downed 3-4 Clanners.

IS need numbers to counter the Clan tech. That's been the standard since the Invasion. It used to be 1 Company (12) versus a Star (5), and it was balanced.

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Tamwolf, I disagree on both counts. I used to regularly play games around company level (usually somewhere between about 8 - 16 units per side) in a 2 to 3 hour gaming evening. 4 to 8 mechs per side should be more than managable in much less than a day even for relative newcomers to the game unless you're doing something massively wrong. A Battalion level game will take about a day, but few people will be putting three dozen mechs each on the table at once.

Also, different tech levels are fine. In my own experience Inner Sphere 3050 tech can be reasonably matched by a well chosen pure 3025 force, a lot of 3050's "improvements" are a trade off, either much higher heat, lower range (pulse lasers) or give a major weakness like XL engines.

Clan is a different matter but not insurmountable, enforcing Clan engagement rules can help, but the Inner Sphere force needs to outnumber the Clan force by a minimum of 2 Lances to 1 Star or somewhere around 2-1, depending on what mechs the Clan player's using (Anything that combines Pulse Lasers and a Targetting Computer can be brutally effective).

Never played Alpha Strike myself but I've given it a look over and it seems like it loses a lot of the nuances and detail that I enjoy about Classic Battletech.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/03/28 16:55:29


 
   
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simonr1978 wrote:
Clan is a different matter but not insurmountable, enforcing Clan engagement rules can help, but the Inner Sphere force needs to outnumber the Clan force by a minimum of 2 Lances to 1 Star or somewhere around 2-1, depending on what mechs the Clan player's using (Anything that combines Pulse Lasers and a Targetting Computer can be brutally effective).

Yeah, a lot depends on what level of IS Tech we're talking about and tonnage, too.

Introtech tends to get murdered by Clantech if we go by just total drop weight, or even numbers of weight classes, because Clantech vastly out-ranges Introtech, out performs Introtech, and can fit at least 33% more equipment at higher speeds. And that's not even including fun little things like Clantech being smaller so more survivable in a single combat (I'm looking at you XL Fusion Engines).

Let's compare 4 'Mechs, for an example.
.........................................................................
AS7-D Atlas - 100 tons - Introtech
Speed: 3/5/0 (54 km/h, no jump)
Heat Sinks: 20 Singles
Weaponry:
* 1x AC-20 - Rng: 9, Dmg: 20, Ammo/Ton: 5, Heat: 7
* 1x LRM-20 - Rng: 7-21, Dmg: 1/missle, Ammo/Ton: 6, Heat: 6, rolls on a Cluster hit line for per missile
* 1x SRM-6 - Rng: 9, Dmg: 2/missile, Ammo/Ton: 15, Heat: 4, rolls on a Cluster hit line for per missile
* 4x Medium Laser (2 rear pointing) - Rng: 9, Dmg: 5, Ammo/Ton: -, Heat 3

AS7-K Atlas - 100 tons - 3050 Upgrades/Star League tech
Speed: 3/5/0 (54 km/h, no jump)
Heat Sinks: 20 Singles
Weaponry:
* 1x Gauss Rifle - Rng: 3-22, Dmg: 15, Ammo/Ton: 8, Heat: 1
* 1x LRM-20 - Rng: 7-21, Dmg: 1/missle, Ammo/Ton: 6, Heat: 6, rolls on a Cluster hit line for per missile
* 1x AMS - Reduces number of missiles hitting the 'Mech
* 2x ER Large Laser - Rng: 19, Dmg: 8, Ammo/Ton: -, Heat: 12
* 2x Medium Pulse Laser (Rear) - Rng: 6, Dmg: 6, Ammo/Ton: -, Heat: 4

Dire Wolf/ Daishi Prime - 100 tons - 3050 Clantech
Speed: 3/5/0 (54 km/h, no jump)
Heat Sinks: 15 Doubles
Weaponry:
* 4x ER Large Laser - Rng: 25, Dmg: 10, Ammo/Ton: -, Heat: 12
* 4x Medium Pulse Laser - Rng: 12, Dmg: 7, Ammo/Ton: -, Heat: 4
* 2x Ultra Autocannon 5 - Rng: 21, Dmg: 5, Ammo/Ton: 20, Heat: 1, can be fired twice in the same turn with a chance to jam.
* 1x LRM 10 - Rng: 6, Dmg: 6, Ammo/Ton: -, Heat: 4

Kodiak - 100 tons - 3058 (referenced) Clantech secondline mech
Speed: 4/6/0 (54 km/h, no jump)
Heat Sinks: 20 Doubles
Weaponry:
* 1x Ultra Autocannon 20 - Rng: 12, Dmg: 20, Ammo/Ton: 5, Heat: 7, can be fired twice in the same turn with a chance to jam.
* 2x Streak SRM-6 - Rng: 12, Dmg: 2/missile, Ammo/Ton: 15, Heat: 4, Will not fire if you do not hit, all missiles will hit unless AMS is involved.
* 8x ER Medium Laser - Rng: 15, Dmg: 7, Ammo/Ton: -, Heat: 5
* 1x ER Large Laser - Rng: 25, Dmg: 10, Ammo/Ton: -, Heat: 12

For those keeping track, the Kodiak carries a similar weapon loadout as the Atlas, but can move faster. Each of its equivalent weapons will shoot farther and potentially do more damage. The Dire Wolf carries almost double the Weaponry.

If I just tried to match as closely as possible to an Atlas build with Clan tech, what we'd see is an Atlas that has 18 tons of space left which is enough to move it up a Movement bracket to match the Kodiak (8.5 if you went with a Standard Fusion Engine), 5 Critical Spots left (9 with Standard Engine), and out-ranging and out-gunning in every category.

Clantech is bad-enough against the Star League tech, but against Introtech, it's just a slaughter. Jihad/post-Dark Age-tech gets around some of this by just being crazy, like the Rotary AC-5 which has about the same weight and range as the AC-10, but can fire off 6x the shots, equating to up to 3 times the damage (but with a huge chance to jam).

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IIRC the AS7-K has an XL engine though which means barring a fatal headshot the destruction of any one torso section will kill it outright, unlike the AS7-D so 3050 vs 3025 Inner Sphere is often a bit more balanced than it might seem at first glance. Also whilst it's definitely true that in the examples you listed there the Clan mechs are vastly superior, certainly in 3050-58 there were some poor Clan mechs too such as the Man O'War P which is IIRC massively underarmed for an 80 tonner with a lot of tonnage wasted on surplus heatsinks and could be outperformed by a lot of contemporary Inner Sphere designs. Admittedly, they're the rare exception and you have to try to find them and deliberately handicap yourself by making a crappy choice though.

Also if you think the Rotary AC-5 is crazy, originally the RACs were a Clan development in the mid-late 3050s and there was a Daishi variant mounting a RAC-20 which as you've probably guessed was a six shot AC-20. It burned ammo like mad (potentially over a tonne a turn) but could kill heavy and even assault mechs in a single turn. (There was also a Madcat mounting a RAC-10 and a Fenris with a RAC-2, can't recall who got the RAC-5 but I think it was the Blackhawk.)

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/03/29 01:17:16


 
   
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simonr1978 wrote:
IIRC the AS7-K has an XL engine though which means barring a fatal headshot the destruction of any one torso section will kill it outright, unlike the AS7-D so 3050 vs 3025 Inner Sphere is often a bit more balanced than it might seem at first glance. Also whilst it's definitely true that in the examples you listed there the Clan mechs are vastly superior, certainly in 3050-58 there were some poor Clan mechs too such as the Man O'War P which is IIRC massively underarmed for an 80 tonner with a lot of tonnage wasted on surplus heatsinks and could be outperformed by a lot of contemporary Inner Sphere designs. Admittedly, they're the rare exception and you have to try to find them and deliberately handicap yourself by making a crappy choice though.

I did mention the XL Engine, but didn't give any specifics on it.

And for ever real duffer of a Clan mech, there's about 5 Spheroid variants. Heck, the Clan duffer can actually be brutal to an average Introtech IS in the same weight class. But if you put that duffer in to IS tech, it makes the Charger and Urbanmech seem like wise decisions.

simonr1978 wrote:
Also if you think the Rotary AC-5 is crazy, originally the RACs were a Clan development in the mid-late 3050s and there was a Daishi variant mounting a RAC-20 which as you've probably guessed was a six shot AC-20. It burned ammo like mad (potentially over a tonne a turn) but could kill heavy and even assault mechs in a single turn. (There was also a Madcat mounting a RAC-10 and a Fenris with a RAC-2, can't recall who got the RAC-5 but I think it was the Blackhawk.)

Yeah, it's crazy. I only say that because it looked like the Spheroids were playing Aperture Science Labs with a lot of things, and if it didn't outright blow-up consistently, they fielded it. MRMs, for example....

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To be fair there, for every Clan mech or variant there are about ten Inner Sphere though. And while you did mention XL engines, it wasn't particularly in the comparison between the AS7-D and -K and it's a massive weakness in the K's design (I'll never understand putting Inner Sphere XLs in heavies or assaults personally).

Not all Clan "duffers" are still scary to introtech, the Man O'War P I mentioned is armed with twin LB5's and twin Streak SRM-6's IIRC. Whilst it's true it'll tear most Chargers a new one (but that's true of most other mechs in general), there's not going to be many halfway decent 3025 heavies or assaults that are going to be running in fear from that firepower. Admittedly, it's pretty much bottom of the barrel for Clan mechs though.
   
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The argument of the AS-7K also fails to mention it is one of the worst Atlas variants ever made. It is a heat hog of the highest caliber, to little advantage.


IS vs. Clan can be balanced. I've been running Battletech games for decades, and you can balance the games by terrain advantages, Battle Value, objectives, etc. It isn't that difficult. Forcing the Clan players to play by their rules helps as well.

IS 3050 variants are generaly bad, as they are field refits, very few of them are actually redesigned. 3055 had the new stuff being built, but the IS wasn't quite up to snuff on what they needed to make. There were a few standouts like the Gallowglas or the Gunslinger, but it wasn't until 3058 that the Inner Sphere really started building 'Mechs that could take on the Clans.

As for putting XL engines on IS heavies and assaults, it is for 2 things: speed or firepower. You can't make a Falconer without an XL engine, can't make a Thunder Hawk without one.

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 Mattlov wrote:
The argument of the AS-7K also fails to mention it is one of the worst Atlas variants ever made. It is a heat hog of the highest caliber, to little advantage.

True, I was just looking at an easily-referenced version I could write up from the TRO.

 Mattlov wrote:
IS vs. Clan can be balanced. I've been running Battletech games for decades, and you can balance the games by terrain advantages, Battle Value, objectives, etc. It isn't that difficult. Forcing the Clan players to play by their rules helps as well.

Very true. Battle Value helps the most for a quick setup. It wasn't my point that they couldn't be balanced. My point was that IS vs Clan cannot be 1:1 in either numbers or tonnage. While you can 1:1 for Mechs if you go for a significant difference in tonnage drops.

And, yes, the Clan system of Zellbrigen helps a little, but the Spheroids have to keep that in mind as well, or the Clanners don't have to follow it (for the most part).

 Mattlov wrote:
IS 3050 variants are generaly bad, as they are field refits, very few of them are actually redesigned. 3055 had the new stuff being built, but the IS wasn't quite up to snuff on what they needed to make. There were a few standouts like the Gallowglas or the Gunslinger, but it wasn't until 3058 that the Inner Sphere really started building 'Mechs that could take on the Clans.

While true, they are still less effective 1:1 vs Clanners for tonnage. They definitely changed from requiring a 1:2 or 1:3, to a 1:1.2 ratio. You can take any of those Clan-fighter 'Mechs and convert them to Clantech and they become a lot more effective. For example, try taking the Timber Wolf/Mad Cat and build it out to match the Falconer's weapon loadout, the Timber Wolf will still have weight to fill up and the energy weapons will all be more powerful and have a higher range (meaning earlier successful hits). Even the Summoner/Thor would be in the same situation.

The closest you will find parity between Clantech and Spheroid tech is in the Autocannons. The only advantage that the Clanners have is weight (depending on the time period) and their CASE is 'free".

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Of course, the Clanners will always have the technological advantage over an IS force. The part that doubly hurts is that they should also have the SKILL advantage. That makes it harder to balance Clan vs. IS fights, I think.

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Yeah, Gunnery/Piloting skills can be where Clanners are really scary. Back when the Clan material was new, the local gaming club ran a IS vs. Clan invasion campaign. After some heated talked, the Clan players decided to teach the IS players a lesson. They bid for one big fight for the control of the planet. One star against the entire defense force - some 30-40 IS mechs.

The IS players went for it. Not only did they bring the entire force, they also got their hands on a couple of salvaged LAMs and even hired a local Merc force to help, which brought the IS force up to somewhere near 50 mechs.

The Clanners (I think they were Smoke Jaguar, BTW) won. The game table was about 10'-15' square. They landed in the middle of a Monsoon, at night, after they likewise tricked the IS forces to be spead out across several objectives, leaving them to attack in waves. The Clanners needed 9's to 11's to hit. Most of the IS mechs needed 13's-15's most of the time.

I remember the first casualty being an IS Warhammer who made himself a target when he turned on his spotlight. I stopped watching after that to go to my D&D game, and got the rest of the battle report later.

By the end of the battle, only a badly limping Atlas IS mech (with a gyro hit and armless) and a "gerwalk"-locked LAM Wasp survived the ensuing massacre.

None of the Clan mechs were destroyed, though one Loki was missing all of its right torso armor.

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Stubborn Temple Guard






Yeah, you can set up a scenario for that to happen. The Clanners should have lost though. At that point the IS forces should have literally just dog-piled and kicked them to death.

27th Member of D.O.O.M.F.A.R.T.
Resident Battletech Guru. 
   
Made in gb
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





Scotland, but nowhere near my rulebook

Never quite figured out how to make the honour rules much of a disadvantage (and I generally played Clan) since it seemed that as soon as the IS tried to use weight of numbers it turned to a Melee and the duelling problem went away.
   
Made in es
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps






 Mattlov wrote:
Yeah, you can set up a scenario for that to happen. The Clanners should have lost though. At that point the IS forces should have literally just dog-piled and kicked them to death.


Yes, evidently, but still, clan stuff is scary. Years ago I remember having some discussion about how scary they actually were, and we did an experiment: me with a clanner assault 'mech (Pilot 4/3) against an IS assault lance and heavy lance of regular (5/4) pilots (3025 designs), to be played over the two regular Btech boards, the ones with mountains on the borders and the lakes.

I don't exactly remember the full lances, but I remember there being an Atlas and an Awesome, a Warhammer, a Dragon, two other heavies, plus a PHawk and... some other medium 'mech.

I chose a Turkina-B, and proceeded to obliterate the whole of them, mostly by jumping over a hill repeatedly to limit the amount of firepower I was subjected to and breaking legs with aimed pulse lasers.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





 Charistoph wrote:

The closest you will find parity between Clantech and Spheroid tech is in the Autocannons. The only advantage that the Clanners have is weight (depending on the time period) and their CASE is 'free".


...and range and depending on time period rate of fire since it's not until the 3060s that the Inner Sphere starts fielding Ultra ACs apart fro.the -5 or LBXs apart from the ten.

Re: XL engines, I get that Assaults (and Heavies to a lesser extent) are typically going to benefit little from the marginal speed increase and freeing up the extra tonnage for more firepower has to be balanced against the reality that what should be your toughest me ha now have a major Achilles heel. Inner Sphere XLs IMO belong in lights and to a lesser degree mediums where they can benefit from the speed and the increased vulnerability to torso hits matters less because they're never going to be soaking up that much damage anyway.
   
 
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