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HG did bring in a lawsuit against numerous parties which included Catalyst, Harebrained Schemes, and Piranha Games. Interestingly enough some of the claims were... rather ridiculous in their image relationships.

Some of the comments I have made and seen on the BT forum were:

Comparing the Locust to the Marauder? The Shadow Hawk to the Crusader? comparing the Shadow Hawk to the Archer (which is even more hilarious)? It's the Atlas that's being compared to the Crusader (despite Atlas being a completely original design).

But right now the case is waiting on the judge's decisions on a few motions, one of which is out-right dismissal with prejudice.

 Elbows wrote:
Yeah, that's been going on for six months or so.

Yeah, the Judge had even warned the lawyers to be careful of wasting the court's time and could make a ruling which affect's the lawyers, not just the company who hired them. Some of us are practically watering at the mouth for HG to be slapped down for it.

But it doesn't leave anyone else listed in the lawsuit out of the bag. What that also means is that anything that the Battletech video game that is being borrowed from the Mechwarrior Online game listed in the said suit will have to wait for the resolution before they can be released in game to avoid being drawn back in to another suit.

 Stormonu wrote:
If HBS was able to get a dismissal, wouldn't this be precedent for the others to get it dismissed if they pushed as well?

It depends on why they were included at all and the lawyers involved as well.

 Stormonu wrote:
Also, who else is named in the suit anyways?

Piranha Games is, the makers of Mechwarrior Online.

Catalyst Game Labs is indirectly via the company that they are a part of (there's some business legal mumbo jumbo involved that I don't understand).

Jordan Weisman is as well, due to a prior lawsuit settlement, but he is part of Harebrained Schemes and part of their dismissal. I think part of it may be that they went after HBS because of him and the work that they were doing they considered to be against their previous settlement. But then, HG was saying a Locust (no arms, gun under cockpit, chicken legs) was the Macross version of the Marauder (gun arms, gun over cockpit, chicken legs), so...

Letting your 'Mech get too hot can also trigger an ammunition explosion. The good news is that in order to get that hot, you're usually running a plethora of energy weapons, and only have a ton or two of ammunition (unfortunately, there is usually at least one box of Machine Gun ammunition which is the deadliest ammo bin to go off in a unit).

 simonr1978 wrote:
No, but that's kind of my point. You've got to create a situation where you have to have an autocannon rather than a PPC or an LRM-5 for the former to be any kind of sensible choice, it's such an easy decision that it doesn't even bear thinking about.

Or be using Special Ammo along with the wonders of having proper targets for it.

An AC/2 or AC/5 Urbie with Flak Ammo is a nasty thing for Aerospace pilots to be facing, but that Vedette will be laughing.

 master of ordinance wrote:
I like the idea of the disgruntled ex-dragoon. To tell the truth though, its a case of what I have and do not have at the moment when it comes to deploying Mechs, so I am a bit limited. I have to agree though, the only variant of the Shogun worth using is the individual Jihad era one, with its LBXAC5's. That said, the prime variant does find its way into a fire support lance when other missile boats are not on the offing.

One of the most wonderful aspects about Battletech is the lack of WYSIWYG requirement. If you have a Shogun model? Great? You don't have to call it a Shogun, but even have it be a lighter mech that was just cobbled together to look a lot like a Shogun! Treat it as a modified Crusader (SRMS in the torsos instead of legs) if you want. It's big stompy shooty 'Mechs, what's not to love?

For those who have been following along, PGI announced a resolution in regards to the Harmony Gold lawsuit.

PGI wrote:As many of you know for more than a year Piranha has been a defendant in a lawsuit filed by Harmony Gold. Very recently that lawsuit has been resolved.. The details on the resolution of the lawsuit are confidential and I am limited to this agreed upon language between HG and PGI.

Harmony Gold and Piranha Games are delighted to announce that they have ended their dispute. Piranha Games will continue to use the “classic” BattleTech designs and Harmony Gold and Piranha Games look forward to continuing to serve their respective fans and customers.

Many of you will have follow up questions but I must abstain from getting into a conversation on the matter.

At Piranha Games we thank you for your support during the process.

Russ

Someone else found a docket agreement which would have the case fully dismissed with prejudice, leaving all legal costs to those who called for them.

That should mean that Catalyst is off the hook for using the new redesigns of the classic 'Mechs like the Warhammer, Marauder, Phoenix Hawk, etc.

 Orlanth wrote:
Not necessarily, Catalyst are NOT part of the lawsuit defence. So summary judgement is still possible. Harmony Gold will press for tight terms that Catalyst cannot afford. Catalyst has always been economically short sighted, hence rehashing old second rate mechs for the new boxset rather than doing what new companies do and modernising the tooling. Everything is on th cheap, including legal representation and that can hurt long term.

We also do not know the terms Harebrained settled for.

I would love to see those classic designs continue into new properties, but I will not want false hopes.

The company that owns CGL, InMediaRes Productions, LLC (IMR), is one of the defendants, which is why they were included in the lawsuit.

This docket entry indicates that it will be for all defendants, including the ones in default. IMR is in default in this case due to a lack of response that both HBS and PGI gave. If it clears the Judge, then IMR would be included.

You are correct that we don't know the terms Harebrained settled for, but as this part of the board is for the miniatures, what HBS and PGI get involved in are only side-related to what CGL does unless it directly affects them (as that docket linked above would if cleared). Concern for HBS and PGI should be filed under the Computer Games part of the board.

Now, part of the miniature concern is that there are people who want to take some of the "Unseen" redesigns that both PGI and HBS have provided and make models from them. There have been pictures of some of the early models and they look fantastic. So far they have been on hold from release (and possibly even production), partly (assumed) because of this lawsuit. CGL has been cagey about responding on the Battletech forum about any information regarding this.

But it should make things easier to expand on the new boxes they are planning to release later this year, and that makes me giddy. That Warhammer looked awesome, and the Thunderbolt in the new box has me itchy.

 master of ordinance wrote:
About time HG got the boot from Battletech. I am glad to see the classic designs returning, they have been sorely missed.

Don't expect to see the classic designs, but they can actually get a lot closer than they have in decades.

Kind of like:
classic design:


Phoenix relaunch:


New redesign:


(Images linked from the Thunderbolt page of Sarna.net)

 Orlanth wrote:

 Charistoph wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
About time HG got the boot from Battletech. I am glad to see the classic designs returning, they have been sorely missed.

Don't expect to see the classic designs, but they can actually get a lot closer than they have in decades.

I prefer the current redesigns, Marauder excepted. The most important thing is we can now have them.

I miss Stingers, not good mechs by any stretch, but they were the workhorse mech of the Inner Sphere. They have been entirely absent for so long while you weren't supposed to get onto a 21st century battlefield without tripping over one.

I hope Piranha games make a nice Stinger and Phoenix Hawk sculpt, i.e nothing like the abominations from MWA.

I enjoy Piranha Game's work on redesigning the Unseen to keep them reasonably close to the original work, but also putting enough "realism" and even a little blockiness to the design to still make it feel original and keeping with the style of the original FASA work.

Yeah, Stingers were quite common. I think only the Archer really competed for numbers. It's firepower isn't that impressive, but great for a scout mech that might have to engage infantry.

 Orlanth wrote:

 Charistoph wrote:

Yeah, Stingers were quite common. I think only the Archer really competed for numbers. It's firepower isn't that impressive, but great for a scout mech that might have to engage infantry.

You mean the Locust. The Archer is a 70 ton heavy, ostensibly a missile support mech, but actually its a near perfect all rounder, and unlike Locusts and Stingers they are not ubiquitous. UrbanMechs were also massed produced, but only two factions went in for them in any numbers, but they would deploy them in waves. Funnily enough the Wasp was much rarer.

The Locust had a role, its a scout, the Stinger also had a role, its a placeholder. In the canon company books Stingers were in every one, even the assault companies like Rolling Thunder, it means something readily available to pilot after you had to eject from your real mech until we can find a new proper mech.

At one part of the timeline Stingers account for 1:6 of known mechs in the Inner Sphere, and Locusts 1:18. Though these were FASA statistics, and FASA never really thought through the numbers in their games.

No, I meant the Archer. The Archer was the most produced and avilable Heavy Mech. That isn't to state that the Locust and the Wasp weren't heavily mass produced, because they were, I just remembered that the Archer was so mass produced.

The Stinger is such a light mech was never meant to be a placeholder, it's just that they were so common and readily available that it was sometimes shoved in to it. A med laser and 2 MG are nothing and easily overpowered by the Medium Mechs that can match its movement profile, and piss in the wind compared to what a Panther can do.

I can't remember if they are modified prints of PGI's work or just very good recreations.

Either way, I'm loving them. Here's to hoping my income upticks to buy both sets.

Pretty much, the Warden clans like Clan Wolf trends to be a higher ratio (Wolf's Dragoons were all Freeborn but Natasha), while Crusaders trend lower (Smoke Jaguars never let Freeborns fight, but Horse was allowed in the Falcon Guard). There are some exceptions, of course.

Hell's Horses, as mentioned, have Mechwarriors who fail their first Trial, go through Vehicle Piloting Trials next. They are somewhat of an oddity in this. I remember another clan allowing a second Trial for Trueborns and success their would put them in the second line much like many of the Crusaders would put dezgra, solhama, or other Freeborn personnel.

PPC Capacitor? Clan 2C model?

 Stormonu wrote:
Y’know, shields would be an interesting development in Battletech, especially if you had to consider facings (simple with front/back or more complex with 6 hex-sided facings).

Maybe a simple 3 tons per shield point, 1 critical slot, facing Front or Rear? 5 points of damage drops 1 shield? Max shields 1/50 engine factors?

That assumes any energy deflection system will be based on armor rather than providing a chance to completely deflect the attack, or even just reduce its damage.

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
Shields would be interesting, especially if they were tied to negative heat effects.

I think that would be a given. Your LAMS example is a good point. But rather than just building heat if missiles are fired at you, it just consistently adds heat. How much should be based on what it actually does. It could even be set up similar to Ultra ACs as well. The more you use them, the higher chance they jam. With shields, the more consistent use per turn would increase the overall heat it adds to the Mech, at least for initial versions. Or it has a base Heat point, and then adds on based on how many times it is hit or how much it recharges, depending on the model desired.

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
1) When does the shield activate, and who chooses? Is it automatic (first shot rolled against defender) or can the controlling Mechwarrior/player determine when the shield is used?

The first is easy to answer in the BT realm, as their is a specific time when things like electronics are turned on and off or switch modes or the dumping of ammo. Any activation/deactivation of said shield would be performed in said format.

The second part is a bit harder. If a pure deflection chance, much like 40K's Invulnerable Save, then there is little reason to choose, as that is already decided when you turn it on. Pure Damage Reduction ala AMS is in a similar vein. Rechargable Armor is where it goes in to the maybe pile, but if it only faces one direction, as it would be reducing the amount of total damage anyway, as being hit by both a Med Laser and AC/20 would still do the same cumulative damage, and damage is only applied at the end of the Phase.

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
2) How many times in a turn can a shield activate. The more the shield activates the less effective it should be overall. If it only activates once a turn, it should be able to stop a powerful attack (10+ damage) outright, if it is in effect for the duration of each turn, the overall impact should be lessened, either by shaving damage off an attack (like an AMS) or potentially adding defensive modifiers to the To-Hit roll of the shielded target.

That is an interesting point. If it goes as a 40K IS, then having it start out as a 5+ Save, but after 2 hits it goes to 6+ would be interesting, but still goes against how damage is considered in a BT game.

The main reason I am even considering a Save method is because we are talking about Titanicus Knights whose shields use that method.

To justify doing a Heat per Hit system, the energy shield would either completely negate the attacks ala Save or it would reduce the energy (aka Damage) of the incoming hit. Regenerating Energy Armor (REA) would only generate high heat if it was assaulted by numerous LB-X, Machine Guns, or Small Lasers, but hardly anything against an AC/20. Conversely, REA would be better balanced based on how much damage it regenerated so that way it would generate high heat no matter if it was hit by an AC/20 or a plethora of Machine Guns. But that's just my opinion.

Construction-wise, shields already exist in BT, but they are [ur="http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Shield"l]physical objects[/url], much like those used by the Roman Legions. Unlike most Melee Weapons, they have a set crit size and mass, no matter the Mech carrying them. I think that this should continue. Mass, Crit Space, Strength, and Heat generation would be based on the size of the device itself.

I also have some ideas about having two versions of this, one being Rotational and one being Directional, but that might be going too far down a rabbit hole, and would be considering this from a perspective of brand new tech as opposed to long established tech that the Imperium of Man uses.

AndrewGPaul wrote:

 Charistoph wrote:
The main reason I am even considering a Save method is because we are talking about Titanicus Knights whose shields use that method.

But bear in mind that in 40k, force fields use the same damage mitigation mechanic as physical armour, In Battletech, that'd be filling in dots. I'd say that a force field would generate an amount of heat per turn it's switched on, and has an amount of armour boxes that must be checked off before any of the unit's physical armour is marked off. This damage will regenerate at the start of every turn.

There's also the difference of 27K of tech advances, too. Again, the main consideration of it is that replicate the experience with tech that we're making up.

AndrewGPaul wrote:I'd also suggest that the system covers a limited number of hex faces, and that multiple systems can be added to cover additional facings (protected facings must be contiguous).

No need to limiting to hex faces. The game already has a system to recognize between Left, Right, Front, and Rear and it is taken from there. Unfortunately, that favors a frontal facing, so a hex focus would keep it more balanced. Not needed, but definitely a consideration.

And we can also consider a Directional and Rotational format as well. Directional would be individually smaller, but only protect that one side, requiring more to gain something regarding full coverage, and be specific to a slot as well. Rotational would also be fixed to a slot, but be larger in total (but not as much as say 3 Directionals), but it can be rotated around at the same time one would determine if it was on or off.

H.B.M.C. wrote:If shields were done in BTech it'd be Small/Medium/Large Energy Shield.

Each shield would have a threshold of damage it could take each turn before anything above that bled through, and you'd roll each turn to see if shut down (2 or under first turn, 3 or under second turn, and so on).

So a small shield would have, say, a 20-point threshold. The first 20 points of damage the unit suffers are ignored, anything over that hits as normal.

Medium at 40. Large at 60.

The numbers above are made up, but you get the idea.

Or, given it's BTech, you could make it even more complicated:

As above, but the shields have a max single hit value as well, so that 20 point Small Energy Shield has a single-hit threshold of, say, 10. Get hit with a 15-point Gauss Rifle? You soak 10, the shield loses 10 of its points for this turn, and 5 bleeds through. Get hit by another Gauss Rifle hit? You lose the remaining 10 points, the last 5 goes through. Get hit by a third Gauss slug? The shield is overloaded this turn, the full 15 goes through.

This last one is closer to how the physical shields work. They reduce the damage taken, but that reduced damage is taken by the Shield until it runs out of damage and is lost. Using the Shield also limits the actions engaged.

An option for overloading the shield is interesting. There are devices called the TSEMP and Battlemech Taser, which operates to shut a mech down. Something like this could be used to overload the system causing its capacitors to spectacularly fail like a damaged Gauss Rifle.

In addition, if we want to work with early copies of such tech, we can also consider either a buffered system which can overload and shut down (but still generate heat) on a 11+ when hit (or when hit by a PPC or high damage Weapon), or go without the buffers and just have the risk innate, but instead of shutting down just explodes for a certain amount of damage.

Size between models has never been a serious concern for the game...

 Phobos wrote:
OK WTF is wrong with the company making this game? All the boxes are out of stock everywhere along with the main rulebook. Some quick googling seems to be this is par for the course.

A long history of lawsuits and threat of lawsuits from a company that only knows how to sue.

 Albertorius wrote:

 Charistoph wrote:

 Phobos wrote:
OK WTF is wrong with the company making this game? All the boxes are out of stock everywhere along with the main rulebook. Some quick googling seems to be this is par for the course.

A long history of lawsuits and threat of lawsuits from a company that only knows how to sue.

Namely, Harmony Gold.

But regarding their stock issues, that has nothing to do with HG and everything to do with them being kind of screwups.

-= Edited to remove swearing - Lorek

Merely recognizing the fact that the long history has lead to certain corporate types being a little... shy when it comes to doing proper releases.

Battletech also provides different types of infantry, from the PBI to Battle Armored troops. So when you say "infantry", it can get a little weird.

Well, I consider the Foot to be PBI, while the Jump, Motorized, and Mechanised to be their own things, though they are as resilient.

Battle Armor is even listed as their own thing within the game, but they are still Infantry, just Heavy.

Protomechs are definitely not Infantry. Ultra-light Mechs is more appropriate. Unfortunately, they are limited by fluff. The requirements to even pilot them involves either electronic tattoos which will drive you mad or require you having your limbs cut off to fit in to the cockpit. Only the most fanatic Clanner or Domini fit this definition. It would be hard for a Mercenary unit to be carrying them because of that, and that's not even considering the scarcity of the equipment.

 simonr1978 wrote:

The requirements to even pilot them involves either electronic tattoos

IIRC aren't these based on the "Enhanced Imaging" tattoos/rules initially in the 1st Somerset Strikers sourcebook?

Which was based off the TV show, yes, sort of. They aren't based off of them, they literally ARE them. Which is one reason why failed Clan Aerospace Pilots who wanted a path to glory as a warrior were convinced to go through the life-shortening procedure of installing them.

 simonr1978 wrote:
I got into Battletech thanks to purchasing the boxed set around the time the TV series was aired over here, I honestly can't remember now which came first for me but whilst my initial experience with the 3rd Edition game gave me my fondness for the Crusader in 3025 games, the TV show meant I almost fell in love with the Madcat. I think that I definitely experienced Clan-Shock first hand is some testament to playing pure Inner Sphere prior to any exposure to Clan Tech.

I was first introduced via the Atlas model in high school, and it fired my imagination, but I never did much with it then. Later when I was looking for new books to read in the library I came across the Jade Phoenix trilogy, and I started getting stuck in getting the Compendium, TROs, and box sets . That series helped me fall in love with the Summoner/Thor and gave me a soft spot for the the Jade Falcon Clan.

Over all, though my favorite model is the Thunderbolt, and I find more kindred spirits with the Federated Suns. I can't say who my favorite Clan is, though, I find things I like with the Ghost Bears and Cloud Cobra. When I got my Directorate for Firestorm Armada, I considered who they were and thought that patterning them after a Clan would be fun and interesting. I started painting them up as Cloud Cobra, and was thinking about doing the Ground Forces as Hell's Horses (due to lack of Mechs), but LGS closed and I got laid off.

 simonr1978 wrote:
I'm glad the TV series was retconned as an in-universe Holovid show though, plotholes abounded...

They did include a character here and there as a side note in some of the books, but the storied universe was too bloody for a children's show like that one was.

Aware, yes. Experience, no.

However I believe it is the only way to get the new model of the Griffon.

It was intended to be a quick buy in and allow people to try it out without dedicating themselves to the larger "A Game of Armored Combat" (AGOAC). It's fully compatible with that larger box, of course, but some beautiful models of the redesigned classic 55 tonners.

 aphyon wrote:
If FASA had maintained control and the company had not been broken up between a half dozen different owners for each part of the IP(minis, video games, tabletop game etc..) it could have been as big as GW.

Possibly. Shadowrun could make for a pretty decent Infinity-style game pretty easily.

On the other hand, Battletech could have been altered considerably to be pretty much unrecognizable if FASA had become GW-big. Just look at how much the Warhammers have changed over the same amount of time.

 Albertorius wrote:

aphyon wrote:Then the added bonus is that battletech lore is just as deep as anything GW has written.

If not deeper ^^.

But I mean it's a stark contrast even when comparing it with their supposedly "low entrance cost" games like Necromunda, Warcry, Kill Team or the like, with the possible exception of Underworlds... and I am not fond of that one, mainly on the account that it is a card game with minis as counters

Well, to be fair, GW spent decades only back filling lore for their games. They have only recently begun advancing it, while Battletech has been advancing for its entire existence despite the numerous changes in it ownership.

Nurglitch wrote:
Pretty sure stuff like TR: 2750 is 'back filling' lore.

While true, consider TRO 3050, 3055, 3060, 3067, Jihad, Dark Age, etc. Up until Age of Sigmar prep, GW ONLY did backfilling.