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The only real resource management is Heat


I agree with everything you say here, except this. Heat is definitely one of the defining factors of Battletech, arguably the defining factor, but especially for dedicated missile- and gun-boats, ammunition conservation is an issue too. If you've only got 8 shots for your LRM-15s (For example), do you let rip as soon as the enemy's in range when you may be on 11+ or 12+ to hit? Do you hold your fire till he's at medium range knowing that he may well be only a turn or two away from getting in under your minimum range? Even if you've got 20 rounds per gun, it's not that uncommon in a Battletech game to run out of ammunition. The only ones where you almost always should be firing regardless are Streak missiles which wont launch if they don't get a lock, SRM-2s, AC-2s, LRM-5s and Machineguns because outside of 'mechs like the Piranha the likelihood of running out of ammunition, particularly with the MGs, are pretty slim.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/19 13:39:02


 
   
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 simonr1978 wrote:
The only real resource management is Heat


I agree with everything you say here, except this. Heat is definitely one of the defining factors of Battletech, but especially for dedicated missile- and gun-boats, ammunition conservation is an issue too. If you've only got 8 shots for your LRM-15s (For example), do you let rip as soon as the enemy's in range when you may be on 11+ or 12+ to hit? Do you hold your fire till he's at medium range knowing that he may well be only a turn or two away from getting in under your minimum range? Even if you've got 20 rounds per gun, it's not that uncommon in a Battletech game to run out of ammunition. The only ones where you almost always should be firing regardless are Streak missiles which wont launch if they don't get a lock, SRM-2s, AC-2s, LRM-5s and Machineguns because outside of 'mechs like the Piranha the likelihood of running out of ammunition, particularly with the MGs, are pretty slim.


Good point, that is an issue

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Well, making stats for knights is certainly easy enough, given what they have. Making them interesting to play can be a bit harder.

For example, what would be a good starting weight to make a regular knight from? 40-ish?
   
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I think I remember reading that most knights are between 50 and 70 tons.
A dreadnought is around 12.

I'd design a knight like a pocket assault mech. A few big weapons.
   
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I think the first thing you'd have to do is ditch any idea of doing it literally by tonnage since a brief Google search indicates that the weights of the heavier titans are largely speculative, but the 40k lexicanum suggests that the Warlord Titan is between 1,000 and 2,500 tonnes and something that size is so far outside of the scope of a Battlemech as to be completely unfeasible using the Battlemech construction rules. I'd suggest rephrasing it so that instead of Tonnes you have a Construction Factor, which coincidentally would function exactly like a tonnage value for construction purposes...

With that in mind I'd suggest as a starting point placing a Knight around 20, Warhound around 40, Reaver 60, Warlord 80 and Emperor at 100, tweak this as necessary with playtesting - as you're not playing strict Battletech you could in theory come up with a Construction Factor of up to 400, but you'd be having to rejig the record sheets since the standard ones only go up to 100 tonnes and that would be a very slow 'Mech, sorry I meant Titan, but it could also be ridiculously tough and it might not make for a particularly fun game having an opponent that can barely move but takes 30 or 40 turns plus to do anything more than superficial damage. Anything smaller than a Knight but larger than infantry can use Protomech rules, you may find it more appropriate to run Knights as heavy Protomechs and spread the proper Titans out a bit more.

The next thing would be to decide on what the various weapons would equate to, I'm not too familiar with Epic or Adeptus Titanicus these days, but I'd imagine (Again as a starting point) Plasma=PPC, Lasers=Lasers (Obviously), Cannon=ACs or possibly RAC, missiles=? missiles obviously but I don't know enough to give a proper assessment of which should be SRM/MRM/LRM. The hardest things to implement would be Shields and Titan CCWs, although there are expanded rules for Battlemech CCWs mainly for Solaris arena mechs IIRC so there's probably a rough comparison out there. Shields could act like an additional layer of armour but I'd probably suggest having it covering the whole Titan so a hit anywhere affects the shields, once they're down then the specific body locations start taking damage. You'd have to come up with your own rules for the weight and number of criticals the shield generator(s) take up and how quickly they regenerate though as AFAIK nothing like that exists in Battletech, as a starting point I'd probably have each shield being able to absorb 10 points of damage, tweak this upwards or downwards as necessary.

I should add again here that I'd suggest this as a starting point, it would probably need adjustment until it felt right.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/08/20 16:38:42


 
   
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Mississippi

Y’know, shields would be an interesting development in Battletech, especially if you had to consider facings (simple with front/back or more complex with 6 hex-sided facings).

Maybe a simple 3 tons per shield point, 1 critical slot, facing Front or Rear? 5 points of damage drops 1 shield (and maybe generates 2 heat)? Max shields 1/50 engine factors?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/08/20 20:21:24


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 Stormonu wrote:
Y’know, shields would be an interesting development in Battletech, especially if you had to consider facings (simple with front/back or more complex with 6 hex-sided facings).

Maybe a simple 3 tons per shield point, 1 critical slot, facing Front or Rear? 5 points of damage drops 1 shield? Max shields 1/50 engine factors?

That assumes any energy deflection system will be based on armor rather than providing a chance to completely deflect the attack, or even just reduce its damage.

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Shields would be interesting, especially if they were tied to negative heat effects.

The Laser Anti-Missile system might be a good starting point in terms of a usable analog. The Laser Anti-Missile system didn't use ammo but instead generated a random amount of heat per use. If shields operated in a similar fashion it might work, where after the shield is activated it absorbs X damage and generates Y heat.

How X and Y are determined is up for discussion, but some things to consider:

1) When does the shield activate, and who chooses? Is it automatic (first shot rolled against defender) or can the controlling Mechwarrior/player determine when the shield is used?
2) How many times in a turn can a shield activate. The more the shield activates the less effective it should be overall. If it only activates once a turn, it should be able to stop a powerful attack (10+ damage) outright, if it is in effect for the duration of each turn, the overall impact should be lessened, either by shaving damage off an attack (like an AMS) or potentially adding defensive modifiers to the To-Hit roll of the shielded target.

 Charistoph wrote:

That assumes any energy deflection system will be based on armor rather than providing a chance to completely deflect the attack, or even just reduce its damage.


That is a good point. Should the shield by ablative like BT armor? A fixed shield rating (with fixed heat and weight costs) would be easy to implement and understand since it mirrors how armor and most weapon systems work in Battletech. If a shield provides X number of "free" armor for Y tons and Z heat output you'd have a piece of equipment that operates like just about every other BT weapon system.

Another idea would be to have the shield simply modify the To-Hit number of the defending unit, making that unit harder to hit. That would be more like Eldar holofields than Imperium shields, but if the point is to make shield units more survivable that may have the same effect as negating damage points.

Another idea is treat shields like AMS, but apply the a table roll based on the damage of the attack (sorta like the reverse of determining cluster hits). Depending on the damage being absorbed the defending player rolls 2D6 and consults the shield chart and the shields absorb a percentage of the damage. Obviously higher rolls would absorb more damage and lower rolls absorb less damage.

But yeah, shields would be a cool idea!
   
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 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
Shields would be interesting, especially if they were tied to negative heat effects.

I think that would be a given. Your LAMS example is a good point. But rather than just building heat if missiles are fired at you, it just consistently adds heat. How much should be based on what it actually does. It could even be set up similar to Ultra ACs as well. The more you use them, the higher chance they jam. With shields, the more consistent use per turn would increase the overall heat it adds to the Mech, at least for initial versions. Or it has a base Heat point, and then adds on based on how many times it is hit or how much it recharges, depending on the model desired.

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
1) When does the shield activate, and who chooses? Is it automatic (first shot rolled against defender) or can the controlling Mechwarrior/player determine when the shield is used?

The first is easy to answer in the BT realm, as their is a specific time when things like electronics are turned on and off or switch modes or the dumping of ammo. Any activation/deactivation of said shield would be performed in said format.

The second part is a bit harder. If a pure deflection chance, much like 40K's Invulnerable Save, then there is little reason to choose, as that is already decided when you turn it on. Pure Damage Reduction ala AMS is in a similar vein. Rechargable Armor is where it goes in to the maybe pile, but if it only faces one direction, as it would be reducing the amount of total damage anyway, as being hit by both a Med Laser and AC/20 would still do the same cumulative damage, and damage is only applied at the end of the Phase.

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
2) How many times in a turn can a shield activate. The more the shield activates the less effective it should be overall. If it only activates once a turn, it should be able to stop a powerful attack (10+ damage) outright, if it is in effect for the duration of each turn, the overall impact should be lessened, either by shaving damage off an attack (like an AMS) or potentially adding defensive modifiers to the To-Hit roll of the shielded target.

That is an interesting point. If it goes as a 40K IS, then having it start out as a 5+ Save, but after 2 hits it goes to 6+ would be interesting, but still goes against how damage is considered in a BT game.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/21 07:30:00


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For what it's worth, the original shield rules for 1st edition Epic had the shield cover a 180degreee arc, but offset from the model's front (IIRC it covered the front and right side quadrants - in Battletech I'd say the front, right front and right rear hex faces).

If it were me, I'd use Battletech rules for Knight vs Knight games, rather than adding titans - Armigers up to the big heavy Acastus kinights.

Apart from the Castellan and Valiant models, most Knights don't tend to mount too may weapon systems. The Paladin, for example, has one main gun, 2 machineguns and a close combat weapon, with an optional AA or rocket mount on the roof. The most you can end up with is the version with a battlecannon and gatling gun - that'll have two main weapons (some sort of gauss rifle and an ultra AC), a machinegun or melta (not sure what that's be in BT), a flamer and a missile launcher or twin light AC on top.
   
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Yeah, personally when I commented about it I was thinking just knights vs. knights stuff, not really up to titans.
   
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 Charistoph wrote:
 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
2) How many times in a turn can a shield activate. The more the shield activates the less effective it should be overall. If it only activates once a turn, it should be able to stop a powerful attack (10+ damage) outright, if it is in effect for the duration of each turn, the overall impact should be lessened, either by shaving damage off an attack (like an AMS) or potentially adding defensive modifiers to the To-Hit roll of the shielded target.

That is an interesting point. If it goes as a 40K IS, then having it start out as a 5+ Save, but after 2 hits it goes to 6+ would be interesting, but still goes against how damage is considered in a BT game.


I know I'm quoting these out of order, but it will make sense, honestly.

I would also be against any shield conveying a saving throw, Battletech is complex enough as it is without adding an extra mechanism for damage resolution. I would treat it like additional armour that can recharge, say an extra 20 points which recharges at 10 points per turn at the start of the following turn and which has to be allocated to a single hit facing. I'm assuming here that any such equipment is going to be post Fed-Com Civil war so 20 points should confer a decent advantage and take a bit of the edge off any incoming attacks without being too excessive.

If the shield is acting like a cloaking device or advanced ECM of some sort however there's no reason IMO why being hit should degrade the capabilities of the shield since it's not trying to actually stop the projectiles or beams.

Make the generator 2 or 3 tonnes and 2 or 3 criticals, it should be fairly weighty and bulky but this would still allow heavier mechs to carry multiple shield generators (Limited a bit by how much space they take up) whilst still allowing lights to take one or two albeit at the cost of some or even all of their weaponary. Generators IMO should have to be located in a torso section.

 Charistoph wrote:
 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
Shields would be interesting, especially if they were tied to negative heat effects.

I think that would be a given. Your LAMS example is a good point. But rather than just building heat if missiles are fired at you, it just consistently adds heat. How much should be based on what it actually does. It could even be set up similar to Ultra ACs as well. The more you use them, the higher chance they jam. With shields, the more consistent use per turn would increase the overall heat it adds to the Mech, at least for initial versions. Or it has a base Heat point, and then adds on based on how many times it is hit or how much it recharges, depending on the model desired.


The way I'd initially handle it would be a simple +1 Heat per hit. There's already a similar sort of mechanic with critical hits where once you strip the armour off a location or two you're far better off using multiple low damage weapons than a single high damage weapon. In universe rationale would be that the shields struggle to regenerate multiple breaches from a battery of machine-guns or SRM launchers more than a single breach caused by a Gauss rifle slug. I realise that this would mean you could potentially force a heat shut down or even ammo explosion on an opponent by overwhelming their shields with LBX Cluster rounds or multiple Streak SRM hits.

An alternative would be that based on the shield regenerating up to 10 points per turn, it generates +1 Heat per point regenerated, with the option for the mechwarrior to shut it down, this should however be an all-or-nothing deal, the player shouldn't be free to chose how much capacity the shields regenerate depending on how much extra Heat they can cope with. Using either method means that whilst multiple shields might seem like a great idea, you'd need plenty of spare heat capacity to cope with it.

 Charistoph wrote:
 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
1) When does the shield activate, and who chooses? Is it automatic (first shot rolled against defender) or can the controlling Mechwarrior/player determine when the shield is used?

The first is easy to answer in the BT realm, as their is a specific time when things like electronics are turned on and off or switch modes or the dumping of ammo. Any activation/deactivation of said shield would be performed in said format.

The second part is a bit harder. If a pure deflection chance, much like 40K's Invulnerable Save, then there is little reason to choose, as that is already decided when you turn it on. Pure Damage Reduction ala AMS is in a similar vein. Rechargable Armor is where it goes in to the maybe pile, but if it only faces one direction, as it would be reducing the amount of total damage anyway, as being hit by both a Med Laser and AC/20 would still do the same cumulative damage, and damage is only applied at the end of the Phase.


I agree. I don't think it'll matter if you stick with the standard Battletech method of resolving incoming hits, the only thing that might matter would be if the armour beneath is already damaged or gone in which case it makes sense for the attacking player to resolve their heavy, single hits first, but then that's no different from how Battletech normally works anyway.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/21 09:42:53


 
   
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The main reason I am even considering a Save method is because we are talking about Titanicus Knights whose shields use that method.

To justify doing a Heat per Hit system, the energy shield would either completely negate the attacks ala Save or it would reduce the energy (aka Damage) of the incoming hit. Regenerating Energy Armor (REA) would only generate high heat if it was assaulted by numerous LB-X, Machine Guns, or Small Lasers, but hardly anything against an AC/20. Conversely, REA would be better balanced based on how much damage it regenerated so that way it would generate high heat no matter if it was hit by an AC/20 or a plethora of Machine Guns. But that's just my opinion.

Construction-wise, shields already exist in BT, but they are [ur="http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Shield"l]physical objects[/url], much like those used by the Roman Legions. Unlike most Melee Weapons, they have a set crit size and mass, no matter the Mech carrying them. I think that this should continue. Mass, Crit Space, Strength, and Heat generation would be based on the size of the device itself.

I also have some ideas about having two versions of this, one being Rotational and one being Directional, but that might be going too far down a rabbit hole, and would be considering this from a perspective of brand new tech as opposed to long established tech that the Imperium of Man uses.

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You could treat it as ablative armor, where a generator protects from x damage per size of the generator. Heat would factor in by being a constant while the shield was turned on. So a light shield could be C:2 T:3, negate five damage, and generate a constant three heat. While on, it regains one box of health (larger versions could regen faster), and covers one arc, which can be shifted during the torso twist phase.

Going with the usual BT four per catagory:
Light shield C2 T3 shields 5/+1 Heat: 3
Medium shield C3 T4 10/+2 Heat 5
Heavy Shield C5 T5 15/+3 Heat 7
Assault Shield C7 T9 20/+4 Heat 10
As an example.
   
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Mississippi

I like the idea of the shield generating a small amount of heat while on (say, no more than 3 or maybe 5 at worst), but would prefer a system where when they start absorbing damage they "overload" and send feedback to the reactor. I'd like for the player to have the option to "recharge" the shield each round (so long as the generator doesn't take a crit), but risk overheating the mech if you do so. Try and absorb too much too fast, and you could shut down or explode the reactor.

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I would treat it like a Particle Dampening Field like BT already has, and just expand what it works against.

But I'm a fan of simple solutions.

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Thanks for all the discussion. Given that I have barely understood any of it suggests that Battletech has the level of complexity I am looking for!

I enjoy playing around with the 40K background to make it hard science fiction so I would not do a literal conversion. I love the ethos of decaying medieval empire in space but need accompany it with a good dose of realism. Although I would be using knight models and painting them with heraldry for the actual underlying technology I would probably ignore the 40K background. Suffice to say no knight would have a close combat weapon.

I have four (!) sets of PDF introductory rules. There is:

Battletech Quick Start: http://www.battletech.com/downloads/CBT-Quick-Start-Rules.pdf

Classic Battletech Introductory Rules: http://www.darkagepress.com/files/BTIntroductoryRules.pdf

Battletech Alpha Strike Quick Start Rules: https://bg.battletech.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/AlphaStrikeQuick-Start-Rules.pdf?x64300

Battletech Battleforce Quick Start Rules: https://bg.battletech.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/BattleForce_QSR.pdf

Guess I will start with the first link and explore the others later.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/22 05:23:04


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The first and second links are basically the same thing, except the first one is newer.

The third and four links are for separate sets of rules, Alpha Strike and Battleforce. Alpha Strike is a modernized and simplified system designed to play larger battles on a regular tabletop instead of hex maps, whereas Battleforce was the mass combat version of Battletech (it also had simiplified mech rules, but because it was designed to much bigger battles, up to planetary full assaults played with world maps and everything).

As to the ethos of decaying medieval rule in space it is mostly already in Battletech too, except clasically it also added a splash of "decaying Vietnam War" to it. And you can totally add close combat weapons if you like, you know

For example, meet the Hatchetman:



Soon in the Battletech computer game too!





Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Mattlov wrote:
I would treat it like a Particle Dampening Field like BT already has, and just expand what it works against.

But I'm a fan of simple solutions.


Yes, the blue shield would probably be a good starting point, I think.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/08/22 06:14:22


 
   
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 Charistoph wrote:
The main reason I am even considering a Save method is because we are talking about Titanicus Knights whose shields use that method.


But bear in mind that in 40k, force fields use the same damage mitigation mechanic as physical armour, In Battletech, that'd be filling in dots. I'd say that a force field would generate an amount of heat per turn it's switched on, and has an amount of armour boxes that must be checked off before any of the unit's physical armour is marked off. This damage will regenerate at the start of every turn.

I'd also suggest that the system covers a limited number of hex faces, and that multiple systems can be added to cover additional facings (protected facings must be contiguous).
   
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If shields were done in BTech it'd be Small/Medium/Large Energy Shield.

Each shield would have a threshold of damage it could take each turn before anything above that bled through, and you'd roll each turn to see if shut down (2 or under first turn, 3 or under second turn, and so on).

So a small shield would have, say, a 20-point threshold. The first 20 points of damage the unit suffers are ignored, anything over that hits as normal.

Medium at 40. Large at 60.

The numbers above are made up, but you get the idea.

Or, given it's BTech, you could make it even more complicated:

As above, but the shields have a max single hit value as well, so that 20 point Small Energy Shield has a single-hit threshold of, say, 10. Get hit with a 15-point Gauss Rifle? You soak 10, the shield loses 10 of its points for this turn, and 5 bleeds through. Get hit by another Gauss Rifle hit? You lose the remaining 10 points, the last 5 goes through. Get hit by a third Gauss slug? The shield is overloaded this turn, the full 15 goes through.

And so on.


This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/08/22 10:48:01


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AndrewGPaul wrote:
 Charistoph wrote:
The main reason I am even considering a Save method is because we are talking about Titanicus Knights whose shields use that method.

But bear in mind that in 40k, force fields use the same damage mitigation mechanic as physical armour, In Battletech, that'd be filling in dots. I'd say that a force field would generate an amount of heat per turn it's switched on, and has an amount of armour boxes that must be checked off before any of the unit's physical armour is marked off. This damage will regenerate at the start of every turn.

There's also the difference of 27K of tech advances, too. Again, the main consideration of it is that replicate the experience with tech that we're making up.

AndrewGPaul wrote:I'd also suggest that the system covers a limited number of hex faces, and that multiple systems can be added to cover additional facings (protected facings must be contiguous).

No need to limiting to hex faces. The game already has a system to recognize between Left, Right, Front, and Rear and it is taken from there. Unfortunately, that favors a frontal facing, so a hex focus would keep it more balanced. Not needed, but definitely a consideration.

And we can also consider a Directional and Rotational format as well. Directional would be individually smaller, but only protect that one side, requiring more to gain something regarding full coverage, and be specific to a slot as well. Rotational would also be fixed to a slot, but be larger in total (but not as much as say 3 Directionals), but it can be rotated around at the same time one would determine if it was on or off.

H.B.M.C. wrote:If shields were done in BTech it'd be Small/Medium/Large Energy Shield.

Each shield would have a threshold of damage it could take each turn before anything above that bled through, and you'd roll each turn to see if shut down (2 or under first turn, 3 or under second turn, and so on).

So a small shield would have, say, a 20-point threshold. The first 20 points of damage the unit suffers are ignored, anything over that hits as normal.

Medium at 40. Large at 60.

The numbers above are made up, but you get the idea.

Or, given it's BTech, you could make it even more complicated:

As above, but the shields have a max single hit value as well, so that 20 point Small Energy Shield has a single-hit threshold of, say, 10. Get hit with a 15-point Gauss Rifle? You soak 10, the shield loses 10 of its points for this turn, and 5 bleeds through. Get hit by another Gauss Rifle hit? You lose the remaining 10 points, the last 5 goes through. Get hit by a third Gauss slug? The shield is overloaded this turn, the full 15 goes through.

This last one is closer to how the physical shields work. They reduce the damage taken, but that reduced damage is taken by the Shield until it runs out of damage and is lost. Using the Shield also limits the actions engaged.

An option for overloading the shield is interesting. There are devices called the TSEMP and Battlemech Taser, which operates to shut a mech down. Something like this could be used to overload the system causing its capacitors to spectacularly fail like a damaged Gauss Rifle.

In addition, if we want to work with early copies of such tech, we can also consider either a buffered system which can overload and shut down (but still generate heat) on a 11+ when hit (or when hit by a PPC or high damage Weapon), or go without the buffers and just have the risk innate, but instead of shutting down just explodes for a certain amount of damage.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/08/22 16:48:25


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Mississippi

Need a BT Guru's help...

Back in the 80's, I had a pair of Rommel/Patton BT tanks. I'm trying to figure out which TRO they FIRST appeared in. I see them in a copy of the 3039 TRO, but my copy tells me that it was printed in 2008. I know the models I had are older than that - somewhere between '88 and '92, at least.

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So, blast from the past, I found this (https://www.amazon.co.jp/%E3%83%A1%E3%83%83%E3%82%AF%E3%82%A6%E3%82%A9%E3%83%AA%E3%82%A2%E3%83%BCRPG-%E6%B8%85%E6%9D%BE-%E3%81%BF%E3%82%86%E3%81%8D/dp/4829172207/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1534997960&sr=8-1&keywords=Battletech) on Amazon.jp while I was looking to see if they had anything for pre-order. (link is SFW)
   
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 Stormonu wrote:
Need a BT Guru's help...

Back in the 80's, I had a pair of Rommel/Patton BT tanks. I'm trying to figure out which TRO they FIRST appeared in. I see them in a copy of the 3039 TRO, but my copy tells me that it was printed in 2008. I know the models I had are older than that - somewhere between '88 and '92, at least.


They first appeared towards the back of the original TRO 3025.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/23 07:53:15


 
   
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Mississippi

 simonr1978 wrote:
 Stormonu wrote:
Need a BT Guru's help...

Back in the 80's, I had a pair of Rommel/Patton BT tanks. I'm trying to figure out which TRO they FIRST appeared in. I see them in a copy of the 3039 TRO, but my copy tells me that it was printed in 2008. I know the models I had are older than that - somewhere between '88 and '92, at least.


They first appeared towards the back of the original TRO 3025.


Ah! That’s why I couldn’t find them - I didn’t think there were any conventional vehicles in that TRO, so I kept skipping over it.

It never ends well 
   
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So I went and bought a box of Knights for 20 bucks, and let me tell you, those are some seriously great models! 21 parts per mini, but quite easy to assemble:



Size-wise, well... the 8mm Knights are on the small side for 6mm Battlemechs, but nothing too bad. Compared with RRT Destroids, they have about a third less pieces and significantly sharper details ("Oh yeah, dear backers, we have split everything by the middle because is THE ONLY WAY TO DO THE INCREDIBLE DETAIL these 80s illustrations have" my furry ). As the destroids are also not very big, they look quite well side by side:





OTOH, when compared with actual Battletech stuff or MWO printed mechs, well... they are kind of small ^^:






Given the above sizes, I'd personally do the current Knights as medium 'mechs, maybe on the lower end of heavy, but no more.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/23 19:13:18


 
   
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Size between models has never been a serious concern for the game...

Are you a Wolf, a Sheep, or a Hound?
Megavolt wrote:They called me crazy…they called me insane…THEY CALLED ME LOONEY!! and boy, were they right.
 
   
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That's why I said "I'd personally"
   
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Mississippi

Oh, my.

Albertorius, you have just made my day. My RRT mechs are about to become stamped with auqilas....

It's also amazing GW can make a model with 20 parts and its fun to put together (put my knights together tonight), but with the RRT 20-part models you want to go find Kevin and do bad things to him and his dog.

It never ends well 
   
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Hey, glad you found it useful

Regarding AT, I still find the Warlord too stupidly big for my tastes, but the knights are perfectly sized for a lot of stuff.
   
 
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