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 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

Stats in a vacuum don't translate to the real game.

Also, what are you talking about? Inductii are a perk of taking Gahlen Surlak. Any Apothecary for World Eaters can trigger EoB, as well.

Crimson Path just boosts FNP rolls, whereas Berserker Assault gives Hatred and is clearly the better choice.

Inductii should be something you can make Tactical Squads into if you take Surlak. +1S and FnP(6+) for the cost of -1BS, can't be joined by IC's and cannot score or give a victory point for destroying. Did I read something wrong?

I was speaking about Crimson Path. You quoted me and made it seem as though I was incorrect in my assertion that Hatred (via Berserker Assault) isn't the superior choice. I pointed out that neither Rite of War has any bearing on Inductii or EoB.

Also, Inductii can be joined by Apothecaries and Surlak. They also lose scoring, btw. That is a huge drawback. Given how killy World Eaters are with Hatred, Rage, and +1S Chainaxes, not sure Inductii are that vital.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

Stats in a vacuum don't translate to the real game.

Also, what are you talking about? Inductii are a perk of taking Gahlen Surlak. Any Apothecary for World Eaters can trigger EoB, as well.

Crimson Path just boosts FNP rolls, whereas Berserker Assault gives Hatred and is clearly the better choice.

Inductii should be something you can make Tactical Squads into if you take Surlak. +1S and FnP(6+) for the cost of -1BS, can't be joined by IC's and cannot score or give a victory point for destroying. Did I read something wrong?

I was speaking about Crimson Path. You quoted me and made it seem as though I was incorrect in my assertion that Hatred (via Berserker Assault) isn't the superior choice. I pointed out that neither Rite of War has any bearing on Inductii or EoB.

Also, Inductii can be joined by Apothecaries and Surlak. They also lose scoring, btw. That is a huge drawback. Given how killy World Eaters are with Hatred, Rage, and +1S Chainaxes, not sure Inductii are that vital.

Their usefulness varies depending on what you throw them at. The Inductii might be better at Primarch killing since they wound on 4+ or 5+ instead of 5+ or 6+. Just my two cents.

Now another idea that popped into my head was using a recon squad or two, kitted for assault, to harass backline units like Rapier teams, Artillery or HSS. I know it's not exactly fluffy, but it might make a difference as my opponent has to decide if he wants to shoot at my oncoming units (Spartans, Dreadnaughts, Sicarans, etc.) to prevent them from moving up the field or deal with the infiltrators that'll likely tear them apart Turn 2.

Killing a Primarch is not the sole objective in games. Plus, that is what Red Butchers are for. Scoring units are vital and making a big, killy unit that can go take an objective from a unit unable to do so... kinda sucks.

As for the recon idea, the tiny 10-man Infiltrating Recon squads that are pretty overpriced will get obliterated. Imo, better to use Pods to deliver harassing units.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
As for the recon idea, the tiny 10-man Infiltrating Recon squads that are pretty overpriced will get obliterated. Imo, better to use Pods to deliver harassing units.

Or I could use them to guide drop pods into the enemy backline... I'm just trying to gauge and effective strategy that'll make more targets for the enemy on every side.

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
As for the recon idea, the tiny 10-man Infiltrating Recon squads that are pretty overpriced will get obliterated. Imo, better to use Pods to deliver harassing units.

Or I could use them to guide drop pods into the enemy backline... I'm just trying to gauge and effective strategy that'll make more targets for the enemy on every side.

I just think its too expensive and risky just to get a Nuncio Vox up the field. Do you really worry that much about pod scatter? Not really worth it, imo. Plus, not very WE thematically speaking either.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
As for the recon idea, the tiny 10-man Infiltrating Recon squads that are pretty overpriced will get obliterated. Imo, better to use Pods to deliver harassing units.

Or I could use them to guide drop pods into the enemy backline... I'm just trying to gauge and effective strategy that'll make more targets for the enemy on every side.

I just think its too expensive and risky just to get a Nuncio Vox up the field. Do you really worry that much about pod scatter? Not really worth it, imo. Plus, not very WE thematically speaking either.

So the whole strategy is LR/Spartan rush up the board and get into CC turn 2?

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
As for the recon idea, the tiny 10-man Infiltrating Recon squads that are pretty overpriced will get obliterated. Imo, better to use Pods to deliver harassing units.

Or I could use them to guide drop pods into the enemy backline... I'm just trying to gauge and effective strategy that'll make more targets for the enemy on every side.

I just think its too expensive and risky just to get a Nuncio Vox up the field. Do you really worry that much about pod scatter? Not really worth it, imo. Plus, not very WE thematically speaking either.

So the whole strategy is LR/Spartan rush up the board and get into CC turn 2?

If you were hoping for finesse, you picked the wrong Legion!

Also, Assault Marines too - usually trailing the tanks or some such.

I was hoping for finesse, just less... obvious strategy. WE seem to be the ZergRush of 30k

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
I was hoping for finesse, just less... obvious strategy. WE seem to be the ZergRush of 30k

Basically that. It was one reason I wound up going for another Legion, honestly. I love LOVE World Eaters fluff. They are my favorite tragic Legion. But their armylist, to be effective at what they do, is somewhat one-dimensional.

I've been playing WE for a while now and the way I describe them is they are THE shock assault legion. SOH and NL are melee oriented legions but they rely more on harassing units. WE are all about just slamming headfirst into the enemy and crushing them through weight of attacks. With Berserker Assault ROW your basic marine throws out 4 attacks at S5 with Hatred and rerolling 1s to wound. You can increase strength with Augmented Inductii and increase their attacks at risk of losing a couple more models with the Exhortation of Butchery rule.

In my meta we don't really play competitively so I don't worry about crazy amounts of phosphex so I in turn don't mount up everything in Spartans. My favorite unit has been the Despoiler load out tactical squad with an apothecary. It is arguable that WE get the best tactical marine for the points they spend.

Augmented Inductii are pretty cool but remember they don't score! If you are interested in building the army based on fluff run large amounts of infantry backed by heavy tanks and dreads. If you are more competitive then maybe just shoving large blobs in Spartans or Kharybdis is the way to go.

Is there any point in drop podding in Dreads just to draw fire and tear up tanks?

If it is a leviathan it would be an excellent idea to pod it into the enemies backline.

Tactical_Spam wrote:Is there any point in drop podding in Dreads just to draw fire and tear up tanks?

Jorim wrote:If it is a leviathan it would be an excellent idea to pod it into the enemies backline.

I've never been a big fan of this, because you are dropping at least 370 points of unsupported models into my backfield. After we resolve the intercept and skyfire on your AV12 drop pod and the S10 AP2 hit against the Dreadnought, you now have a Dreadnought sitting in the middle of my forces. It won't last past my next shooting phase, though you'll be able to kill 1 vehicle or a couple of my guys. A distraction? Sure. A very expensive distraction, and one that you can't count on. It would be far, far cheaper to make a suicide squad of five support squad models with Melta guns (at least they would be scoring!), and a regular drop pod for this. Grand total points: 210. But again, intercept/sky fire, and then five melta guns will kill one of my vehicles or a couple models and then get hammered.

Now not everyone is going to have a Deredeo and/or Mortis Contemptor in their army (though I don't know why they wouldn't). In which case this could be a viable tactic, but a difficult one to use and you can't accurately predict what turn the Drop Pod will come in (if it's turn 1... yeah... that would not be a good idea to drop it when my entire force is concentrated in my deployment zone. That just maximizes my shots on it). Later turns, my whole army will be spread out, which does allow you to concentrate on say, a Rapier Battery. But then you are spending 370+ points to kill a squad worth maybe 180-ish. And then you have a Dreadnought stuck in my deployment zone with very short range weapons.

Worst time for this tactic: Early game. Best time: Mid game. Late game: by this point, the game will probably already be decided, and it's hard to believe that a single Dread could swing the game in your favor that much. This could really pay big dividends against the army not ready for it, or if you come in on the right turn, exactly where you want to.

The idea above about Assault Squads or even a Destroyer Squad with jump packs might be better for this kind of harassment unit.

Thanks for the advice.

Now, is there any mention of alternate color schemes for the WE? I'm not a huge fan of the white and blue. I had the thought of painting the normal scheme but guys here and there would have scavenged armor and weapons from other legions (both traitor and loyalist). Would that fit their fluff?

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
Thanks for the advice.

Now, is there any mention of alternate color schemes for the WE? I'm not a huge fan of the white and blue. I had the thought of painting the normal scheme but guys here and there would have scavenged armor and weapons from other legions (both traitor and loyalist). Would that fit their fluff?

If you want to go away from white/blue, as the Heresy ground on, they moved away from blue to red.





Suitably brutal looking.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tamwulf wrote:

Tactical_Spam wrote:Is there any point in drop podding in Dreads just to draw fire and tear up tanks?

Jorim wrote:If it is a leviathan it would be an excellent idea to pod it into the enemies backline.

I've never been a big fan of this, because you are dropping at least 370 points of unsupported models into my backfield. After we resolve the intercept and skyfire on your AV12 drop pod and the S10 AP2 hit against the Dreadnought, you now have a Dreadnought sitting in the middle of my forces. It won't last past my next shooting phase, though you'll be able to kill 1 vehicle or a couple of my guys. A distraction? Sure. A very expensive distraction, and one that you can't count on. It would be far, far cheaper to make a suicide squad of five support squad models with Melta guns (at least they would be scoring!), and a regular drop pod for this. Grand total points: 210. But again, intercept/sky fire, and then five melta guns will kill one of my vehicles or a couple models and then get hammered.

Now not everyone is going to have a Deredeo and/or Mortis Contemptor in their army (though I don't know why they wouldn't). In which case this could be a viable tactic, but a difficult one to use and you can't accurately predict what turn the Drop Pod will come in (if it's turn 1... yeah... that would not be a good idea to drop it when my entire force is concentrated in my deployment zone. That just maximizes my shots on it). Later turns, my whole army will be spread out, which does allow you to concentrate on say, a Rapier Battery. But then you are spending 370+ points to kill a squad worth maybe 180-ish. And then you have a Dreadnought stuck in my deployment zone with very short range weapons.

Worst time for this tactic: Early game. Best time: Mid game. Late game: by this point, the game will probably already be decided, and it's hard to believe that a single Dread could swing the game in your favor that much. This could really pay big dividends against the army not ready for it, or if you come in on the right turn, exactly where you want to.

The idea above about Assault Squads or even a Destroyer Squad with jump packs might be better for this kind of harassment unit.

Destroyer Squads are kinda garbage. I would steer clear outside of purely fluffy lists... because black armored World Eaters are badass.

So, most things don't have Interceptor and Skyfire. Really not a major concern. I wouldn't fret that. What a Leviathan from a Pod can do is disgusting though! Absolutely a good unit, but I would say it by itself won't work as well as if you pair it with a few more Pods. Target saturation and all that.

Also, a suicide Melta squad is a pretty awful investment. Most things have Armored Ceramite and a 5-man squad in 30k will evaporate in the blink of an eye. So you are throwing 210+ points in the trash on the off-chance you happen to kill a vehicle. S8 AP1 can do it, but it isn't so good that I would do it. The Leviathan w/ a CML and Drill is a much more survivable unit by comparison and will absolutely trash most stuff.

Just my $.02.

The Terminator looks a lot more brutal than the normal Marine. Maybe I could paint the Marines with the metallic red chestplate?

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
The Terminator looks a lot more brutal than the normal Marine. Maybe I could paint the Marines with the metallic red chestplate?

You choose how to paint your army. I wouldn't do metallic red - that isn't their schtick really. That red is a basic red. Though you can also toss in more brass accents if you want something with more pop. They basically are halfway between Berserkers and their Legion colors.

So the scavenged armor paint scheme is a no go? Should stick with the almost berserkers?

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
So the scavenged armor paint scheme is a no go? Should stick with the almost berserkers?

Scavenged armor will read as Blackshields. I say go for their look. They are very diverse as a Legion with plenty of upgrades.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
So the scavenged armor paint scheme is a no go? Should stick with the almost berserkers?

Scavenged armor will read as Blackshields. I say go for their look. They are very diverse as a Legion with plenty of Chain axes

Fixed that for you. So you advice on making them really look like the WE aesthetically? Bloody armor, all the chain axes, the upgrade sprues, etc?

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
So the scavenged armor paint scheme is a no go? Should stick with the almost berserkers?

Scavenged armor will read as Blackshields. I say go for their look. They are very diverse as a Legion with plenty of Chain axes

Fixed that for you. So you advice on making them really look like the WE aesthetically? Bloody armor, all the chain axes, the upgrade sprues, etc?

Yea. They have two helmet sets, a torso set, and two kinds of chainsaws, plus you can do more on your own if you are adventurous. Cast some Sarum helmets (mod Kharns), use Anvillus backpacks, and get pteruges for that gladiator vibe.

Use blood sparingly and wisely. Do the so straight red, add brown and/or purple to make it more visceral. Splatter with a toothbrush or flick a brush. Sparingly looks best, imo.

Just some thoughts.