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Made in ca
Loyal Necron Lychguard






Palm Beach, FL

The harder thing with demons is that they don't really have any weapon options, and almost no shooting. Look at Necrons, they had a hard enough building out options for that list.
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Custodian






Holy Terra

 aka_mythos wrote:
Even in some other campaign on some other planet... the point of Shadow War is representing a conflict where it is either petering out or it hasn't escalated to full out war. In either case Daemons in numbers only appear when a conflict has escalated to a point beyond the scope of the game.
Ha no you jst amde all of that up yourself. Also GK already have a Kill Team.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
The harder thing with demons is that they don't really have any weapon options, and almost no shooting.
And on top of that, it's more like four lists than one - unless you have one list with four flavors. It's certainly a tough one compared to say Orks.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/11 14:22:51


   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Calculating Commissar





Gone-to-ground in the craters of Coventry

The rules are coming out on the 22nd, with all current kill team lists in the same book.
There's no Black Library ebook version available 'til then, either.

It looks as though only plastic kits have been listed, as a mid-level gateway game. With a lot of its rules lining up with 40k 8th ed announcements, it'll probably be one of many similar boxes coming out this year.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/04/11 14:58:41


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Clubs around Coventry, UK 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






I think, rather than daemons, a variant of the Chaos Space Marine list would be good - one that allows you to sacrifice a Kill Team member or captive to get a daemon in the next game, and/or allowing possession as an Advance, in place of taking a skill.
   
Made in gb
Bloodthirsty Vampire Thrall





UK

 Skinnereal wrote:
The rules are coming out on the 22nd, with all current kill team lists in the same book.
There's no Black Library ebook version available 'til then, either.

It looks as though only plastic kits have been listed, as a mid-level gateway game. With a lot of its rules lining up with 40k 8th ed announcements, it'll probably be one of many similar boxes coming out this year.


Sisters of Battle and Inquisiton have been added and they are mostly metal.

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

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A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Ute nation

Kroot seem like a natural fit, as do dark Eldar warriors.

Necrons - 4k
Dark angels - 2k


"You know what they say about brute force, if it's not working you are not using enough of it" 
   
Made in ca
Renegade Inquisitor with a Bound Daemon





Tied and gagged in the back of your car

Haemonculus Covens could be cool.
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Calculating Commissar





Gone-to-ground in the craters of Coventry

 Mr Morden wrote:
Sisters of Battle and Inquisiton have been added and they are mostly metal.
Good point.
It's nice that they haven't forgotten Sisters.

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Clubs around Coventry, UK 
   
Made in gb
Bloodthirsty Vampire Thrall





UK

 Skinnereal wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:
Sisters of Battle and Inquisiton have been added and they are mostly metal.
Good point.
It's nice that they haven't forgotten Sisters.


Well they had so various people prodded them quite a bit on facebook etc. Crossed fingers they make a fun kill team.

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





I'd like to see rules for a sentinel added. It would appear much tougher in SWA then in regular 40k but still possible to take out with the weapon options available. I guess it would need to be a specialist. Could be used for Astra militant forces and chaos. Maybe kills kans for orks. Not sure about the rest?
   
Made in us
Dangerous Outrider






Looking at my 2nd edition stuff.. (yes I am a old timer) most of the point values are rumor ports from that edidtoin. Some of the numbers are close
with others out in right field.

To get the points a zero was added to the total.. so a 30 point model in 2nd edition 40k is 300 point in Necromunda/SWA; The deamons start around
the 350 point mark.. making them with upgrades a very small army with no shooting..
Also a basic carnifax is a 190 points.. making it 1900 in SWA so it would take two kill teams to fight it for the points to come out fair. but that could
be a new mission idea.

Also; there is no rhyme or reason why a model is a special operative; The basic tyranid warrior is normally more powerful than a genestealer but
one is a basic troop while the other is a SO.. I understand that higher point models need some type of penalty but not sure how it could be fixed.

 
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut






Zwan1One wrote:
I'd like to see rules for a sentinel added. It would appear much tougher in SWA then in regular 40k but still possible to take out with the weapon options available. I guess it would need to be a specialist. Could be used for Astra militant forces and chaos. Maybe kills kans for orks. Not sure about the rest?


You can build a sentinel with the Ash Wastes vehicle rules, would cost 100points + weapon mount (weapons come from the kill team's armoury and are still restricted by type - so a Heavy would need to be driving to use a special/heavy weapon).
The vehicles rules look like they can be used as is, no real modification required. Only issue seems to be replicating some w40k vehicles, allow bikes to take mounted weapons and add in turret rules for APC's like the Chimera would cover most issues, allow Eldar scimmers to move fast.

As to shadow war point values compared to 2nd Ed, it seems high value models are discounted, for example: The chaos marine in Necromunda costs 300cr, while in Shadow War a CM with Boltgun is 155pts.
I think the difference is points cost for armour, using the Rogue Trader pts calculator, a space marine without armour would cost 90pts, in shadow war scouts cost 100pts.
My thinking here, is 6+ and flack armour is basically free, 5+ ~ 10pts, 4+ ~ 20pts and 3+ ~ 30 - 40pts, doesn't quite match up with scouts but is pretty close.
So if using 2nd Ed pt values you would have to discount armour costs.
Using current w40k stats a bloodletter would come out at 77pts before any special rules, give some 6+ armour for free and cost up the Hellblade.
   
Made in us
Veteran Inquisitor with Xenos Alliances






The convention for converting model prices appears to be:
Y x 5 = N
Where Y is the 2nd edition price and N is the Shadow War price...

It's been a while and I may be misremembering some of this...

In 2nd ed a CSM was 25 pts, with Bolt pistol (2pts) and frag (2pts). A close combat weapon was 1 pt... so the baseline as equipped in Shadow War is 22pts in 2nd edition, or 110 pts in Shadow War. There is then an additional 10pts in Shadow War, presumably the cost of the Chaos mark.

In 2nd ed a Bloodletter was 35 pts and should cost 175 pts in Shadow War. This would buy you a 4+ armor save that can't be modified. Their hellblade was Str user+1, Dmg D3. They also caused fear and had an ability related to charging.

Within the context of Shadow War I think bloodletters might be under costed.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/04/13 07:12:11


 
   
Made in us
Sneaky Kommando




Southern California

Squatkanaut Overlords.

   
Made in us
Winter Guard




Pittsburgh, PA

 Skinnereal wrote:
The rules are coming out on the 22nd, with all current kill team lists in the same book.

Correction - the rules will be available for preorder April 22, and unlike usual preorders, this one will last for a few weeks. So no, the book won't be out on the 22nd, not even the week after.

As far as factions that should be introduced? I'm astonished that there are no Arbites in this Underhive, and honestly I think they should do a supplement like "Gangs of the Underhive" to allow Necromunda gangs in the new ruleset - it could even have its own campaign structure.

As far as the models not being currently available? It sure didn't stop GW when it came to rules for factions in Blood Bowl. Season One has rules for five teams that are not part of the current retail line, and there's an official .pdf with several more. Of these, only two have once more become available via cast-to-order. So availability of models is clearly not a factor in GW making rules. They encourage conversions and I suspect that overwhelming response might prompt them to release new models or re-release the old ones. Even if they don't, the cost of writing rules is far less than that of making models.

 
   
Made in us
Veteran Inquisitor with Xenos Alliances






I <3 Squats... Also kinda makes me wish Ratlings were included.

Arbites and underhive gangs would be great, with FW/SG still working on Necromunda proper I'm not surprised if we don't see any of this until that gets a proper release.
   
Made in us
Skilled SDF-1 Pin-Point Barrier Jockey





Mississippi

Kroot does seem like a natural fit for this scale of the game.

I'd also like to see Tau fire warriors/breachers kill teams.

I don't understand how we can get Chaos Space Marines, but you can only use loyalist scouts....

Why can't you take a (single) Eldar aspect warrior as a specialist?

And I want to be able to use my gaunts (Terma-, Horma-, Gargoyles) in a Tyranid list...

I'd like to see more entries for the "one vs. an army" operatives, like the solitaire. Something where it's a special mission scenario, one side brings the Solo, the other side uses a normal kill team to take it down. And definitely some rules where it's detrimental to do it more than once per campaign. Some of what I'm thinking (it's have to be something about 80-100 pts. in 40K, I believe):

- Space Marines: Dreadnought
- Tau: Coldstar Crisis battlesuit or two Crisis battlesuits
- Tyranids: Lictor (the 3E version...) or Carnifex
- GSC: Broodlord
- Orks: Deff Dread or a trio of Killa Kans
- CSM: Helbrute or Mutilator/Oblitorator
- Imperial Guard: Armored Sentinel or a trio of Scout Sentinels
- SoB: Penitent Engine
- Skitarii: Dragoon or Ironstrider
- Necrons: Nightbringer
- Dark Eldar: (not familiar with these guys) Talos?
- Eldar: Avatar of Kaine (or a Phoenix Lord?) or a Wraithlord

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/16 09:45:14


It never ends well 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





I would like to see more variety for each faction as follows:

Tau:
Xenos mashup of Kroot and Vespid.

Space Marines:
Tactical Marine equivalent to Chaos Space Marines

Daemons:
Troops of each God either as a Chaos combined or one God Force

Astra Militarum:
Commissars

Dark Eldar:
Kabalite Warriors

Eldar:
Aspect warriors eg Howling Banshees, Warp Spiders, Fire Dragons etc

Tyranids:
Termagaunts/Hormagaunts etc

Necrons:
Destoyers and scarabs?

Basically more choice to make some great themed lists.

Maybe a single tanky reserve unit that makes a great display centre piece like a Sentinel, Killa Kan, Carnifex, Wraithlord, Dreadnought, Hellbrute etc etc.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/16 13:39:09


 
   
Made in us
Veteran Inquisitor with Xenos Alliances






Light vehicles would be cool. Gorkamorka and one of the Necromunda expansions incorporated vehicles into the basic Necromunda rules.

Both when it comes to vehicles and some of the 40k units people want to take as kill teams... I think there should be some sort of expanded larger point games... Allow full marine tactical squads vs Veteran IG with a sentinel or Ork Nobz.

I'd also like to see some solo one model kill teams... a Lictor or Assassins etc...
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





Kroot would be a good addition but is there enough variety of options in a squad?

It's nice that standard marines aren't in there. It's means the scouts have to work harder for it.
It's a shame that chaos can't just take one marine and a shed full of cultists.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/17 21:18:22


 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Longtime Dakkanaut






In da Mekshop

Zwan1One wrote:
Kroot would be a good addition but is there enough variety of options in a squad?


I'd think there would be. I could see:
Leader - Shaper, can have Tau rifle options
Trooper - Kroot Warriors
Specialist - Krootox
New Recruits- Kroot Fledglings, similar to how Ork Yoofs are done with slightly lesser stats
Alternate New Recruits - Kroot Hounds, using the same limitations as on standard Recruits (no more than 50% of your team, also counting Fledglings in that 50% limit)

Would be cool if they gave rules for pistols that can be easily converted from cut-down Kroot rifles.


-GrimTeef-
Proud mod of The-Waaagh forum and Vice-President of the Brian Nelson is a Sculpting God Club 
   
Made in us
Veteran Inquisitor with Xenos Alliances






I think a Kroot Killteam would generally have to borrow from their old Kroot Mercenaries 40k list from way back when...

Central to that armylist were there ability to upgrade with "evolutionary adaptations." I think we'd see some limited list of such adaptations for the Killteam with different Kroot entries being limited in how many of such adaptations they can take or simply one taken across the whole team.

Team member choices would probably be:
Kroot Shaper
Kroot Kindred
Kroot (juvenile)
Krootox Rider or Kroot Hunter

In the old rules Kroot Hunters were a Heavy Support choice with better rifles and a better BS.

I think there is something distinctive in the Krootox being this beefy gunner amongst relative agile warriors, though it may or may not be appropriate in a game with so much verticallity. Similarly I'm not sure if either the Krootox or Kroothound would be appropriate outside the contex of an operative, either would require some restrictions in how they move or hand waving, and hand waiving is easier with something special.

I think the Kroot specialists would be a Master Shaper, as well as either a Stalker and/or Headhunter from their old mercenaries list.

The Master Shaper would likely have a suitable combination of "adaptations," weapons, and stats... straight forward all around best Kroot.
The Headhunter would have a special poison attack and some sort of higher movement and/or running advantage
The Stalker would have some sort of special ambush attack and a Kroothound or two.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/04/18 01:52:51


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut






Maybe have a kroot beastmaster as an operative who can take a number of hounds.

I like the idea of using the old Merc list. Not to sure on adaptations, maybe treat them similar to Chaos marks? You have a number to choose from when you recruit the model or when it becomes a trooper.

Krootox looks like it can climb at least as well as a Terminator or wraithguard, it's hands are free after all. How would you treat the rider? As part of the Krootox or use the beast riding rules from Necromunda.
   
Made in us
Veteran Inquisitor with Xenos Alliances






 Dravis wrote:
Maybe have a kroot beastmaster as an operative who can take a number of hounds.

Pretty much what Kroot Stalkers were... think basic Kroot squad but with fewer "Kroot" and the option to take more than standard Kroothounds... the Kroot of this unit were stealthy ambushers.


I like the idea of using the old Merc list. Not to sure on adaptations, maybe treat them similar to Chaos marks? You have a number to choose from when you recruit the model or when it becomes a trooper.

On one hand the adaptations are supposed to be on a squad level... their social consumption of their enemies granting them the adaptations.
On the other hand I think adaptations are a way to provide the sort of upgrades some factions get with equipment, marks, or biomorphic, etc...

For example I could imagine something like a chameleonic skin adaptation giving the same advantage as camo gear.
Or a an adaptation to improve movement rate, or toughness... All three of those being the sort of thing their 40k rules allowed them.


Krootox looks like it can climb at least as well as a Terminator or wraithguard, it's hands are free after all. How would you treat the rider? As part of the Krootox or use the beast riding rules from Necromunda.
I think the "rider" maybe the biggest challenge of the Krootox... if the riding rules were already incorporated into this rule set it'd be easy... short term fix is to just give the model a singular stat line that represents the two together. In a number of ways a Krootox really seems like the Kroot equivalent to the Ogryn.
   
Made in se
Slaanesh Chosen Marine Riding a Fiend




Uppsala, Sweden

 Sentinel1 wrote:


Tyranids:
Termagaunts/Hormagaunts etc



I think it was in 3rd or 4th edition codex the 'gaunts had the option of taking more individual biomorphs, including making one of them into a local node for the hive mind. That would fit the setting.
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





 aka_mythos wrote:
 Dravis wrote:
Krootox looks like it can climb at least as well as a Terminator or wraithguard, it's hands are free after all. How would you treat the rider? As part of the Krootox or use the beast riding rules from Necromunda.
I think the "rider" maybe the biggest challenge of the Krootox... if the riding rules were already incorporated into this rule set it'd be easy... short term fix is to just give the model a singular stat line that represents the two together. In a number of ways a Krootox really seems like the Kroot equivalent to the Ogryn.


The Krootox should potentially be a special operative then and combine their stats into a single line.
So while there are the options for the kroot but not sure there's the available model range. Not in plastic at least. The kroot hounds would definitely work well as maybe the beast master would count as a specialist? The kroot hounds would have no advancement allowed.
It's sounds like there is a lot of potential especially with access to some tau special weapons...
   
Made in us
Veteran Inquisitor with Xenos Alliances






With the exception of Krootox and Kroot hound... the stuff I plucked from the old mercenaries list only required the use of the basic Kroot kit.
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Custodian






Holy Terra

One way to make Kroot stand out is to make the Kroot Rifle a Bolter with a CC subprofile equivalent to a Sword.


   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Lincoln, UK

 Gobbla wrote:
Squatkanaut Overlords.



I came here to say exactly the same thing.

Kharadron Oversquats!

Hang on, that sounds... painful...
   
Made in us
Veteran Inquisitor with Xenos Alliances






I'm a big Squat fan, but I think the biggest challenge of bringing them back is how you choose to focus in on their fluff. They were Space Vikings, Soace Bike Gangers, and they were slower tougher Guardsmen with a more reliable las-weapon and better armor. I like the Kharadon miniatures but where do they fit in? -I think making them work ruleswise pretty much means zeroing in on how they fit in before while tossing out the fluff.

Take their old stat line and armor we end up with a baseline that's inbetween a Scout and a Guardsmen in cost, where their basic las-rifle is effectively a hotshot lasgun without the downside and an option for basic Squats to take a variety of close combat weapons and pistols... specialists to take the standard special weapons.


 Manchu wrote:
One way to make Kroot stand out is to make the Kroot Rifle a Bolter with a CC subprofile equivalent to a Sword.
It's be something between a bolter and a shotgun... I think the fact that it's a rifle with a full length barrel it'd probably have a long range bonus to hit but a short range negative modifier... That aspect of it ends up balanced out with a close combat profile of some sort. What that bonus would be isn't clear cut in these rules... did Necromunda have any rules for bayonnetes?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/18 22:19:41


 
   
 
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