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Poly Ranger wrote:
-Dreadclaws

-Dreadclaws

-Dreadclaws

-Dreadclaws

May have missed a few gems there. Btw did I mention Dreadclaws?

hehehe

If you want a competitive traitor army just play dark angels.

Poly Ranger wrote:

May have missed a few gems there. Btw did I mention Dreadclaws?

Dreadclaws are the best, what's more chaos than burning everybody with your flying murder machine?

Otherwise, Just quit Chaos, I got back to the hobby after atleast 7-8 years break. I quit soon after the 4th edition dropped. Traitor Legions fooled me back. The thing that really bugs me about that supplement is that they clearly didn't even try to make them equally good. Who thinks Fear at -2 ld equals getting relentless and FnP? One gets ability that's very situational while the other gets these abilities that are always in effect, I mean how many times Death Guard is getting wasted by S 10 or D weapons?
The positive guy inside me (yeah, there is one!) is hoping that GW knew they would tone down the amount Fearless and Ld test ignoring abilities, so in future the 8th could be better. Meanwhile the cynical in me calculates: Death Guard made very good, Rumours about Mortarion and Death Guard coming to 40k, and now rumours about Death Guard containing starter plastic kit coming to 30k. And the cynical says that GW is buffing up Death Guard on purpose to generate sales. Which is fine, I mean they try to do business and all, but the game is competitive as basic mechanism, so then buffing up some of the factions/sub-factions with the only purpose being to buff up sales is kind of wrong.

Might as well start giving special super rare dataslates that contain insane extra rules and formations everytime you order worth 1000 $/£/€ from GW. You know like magic has mythic rare cards, 40k should get Rare Formations and Mythic Rare Formations. I mean how sick would that be, I hope they don't get this idea... And then they could start selling these Formation Boosters, which give out random formations in card form, of course larger than normal MtG cards, but you get the idea. What a great idea, I should go tell this to GW!

Bottom line, play chaos, but start building army that can do 30k and 40k at the same time. And in 30k you can get even more Dreadclaws, which btw have Inertial Guidance Systems! Burn Baby Burn! (I think the Dreadclaw was best justification so far in this thread!)

...What makes you say that CSM are weaker than Space Wolves in every way? With all the good stuff from Traitor Legions, they're definitely not. Sure, there are definitely some dud legions (Night Lords, Word Bearers, Alpha Legion) but looking across the aisle, how often do you see Deathwatch, Grey Knights, Raven Guard, Black Templars etc.

Death Guard, Iron Warriors, Black Legion (if you make use of their awesome formations): All those are danged solid. Emperor's Children and World Eaters allow you to make awesome themed armies.

Chaos has gotten a level of help that the other crapped-on factions (Sisters, Nids, Dark Eldar, Guard, Orks) can only dream of in the past several months. Enjoy that! Play with a few of your new toys! Sure, your army is on life support, but at least GW is giving it to you - they've left the other half-dozen trash tier factions for dead long ago.

The doom and gloom people perpetuate about Chaos marines is.... its tiring. Lol.

There is truth in that the Chaos Codex allowed less people to reach the 400+ club in the ITC ( I wrote the latest blog on that) and its true that the number of ways you can play it is MORE limited (and still reach that level). It's still possible and people still did it, but a lot of people play "what they have" and do not want to change. Change is not only hard for humans in general, but the cost of changing is real money. That is no reflection on the codex, it's just a cold observation of fact.

Chaos Space Marines got a very good injection of improvement with Traitor Legions. That everyone didn't get a Blue Ribbon does not mean it was not a very good injection for the Chaos Codex. Again: change is hard and its expensive. But for those who want to play Chaos in the first place because it is cool, they will absolutely find fertile ground there for playing in the codex and as long as they are willing to use the most fertile plots in the Traitor Legions instead of bemoaning that they ARENT all the same level of fertility, they will enjoy even greater success than last years standings.

So go ye forth and watch the galaxy burn, or sit quietly and have a pity party. i know what my Night Lords will be doing...

There are so many loyalist Space Marine armies on the tabletop as it is. Whilst Chaos Space Marines may be an MEQ, won't you ever look across the table and think "Why are my SW/DA fighting a fellow loyalist chapter?" With Chaos that need not happen, even if you're also fighting another Chaos army.

Of course, if that never comes to mind then- well, just wait until 8th and see where the new edition sticks their power level. It's only a few months away so it won't be a long wait.

Also, can we go one Chaos thread without the 'whiners who whine about Chaos whiners pre-emptively' crowd?

I can't do that Dave.

We need some dark in our universe CSM brings it to the table.

wildger wrote:
I don't understand why everyone is putting so much hope on the 8th edition. It will NOT make CSM stronger unless there is a new codex changing the points and formats.

We'll have charges from rhinos once again. So, taking into consideration they'll probably make vehicles a tad more durable, this thing alone can make csm an even tougher cc army. Your csm in rhinos will no longer be tax.

 koooaei wrote:

We'll have charges from rhinos once again. So, taking into consideration they'll probably make vehicles a tad more durable, this thing alone can make csm an even tougher cc army. Your csm in rhinos will no longer be tax.

But if you compare that with every other race, that has transports and CC.. it doesn't mean anything..

If anything I would worry for 8th as a whole as it may become who charges first wins kinda of game..

GW has said there will still be codexes. We can presume that CSM will get one at some point...if GW gives Eldar and SM another OP codexes before CSM gets one, then you should definitely sell, as that would be proof of GW's continued bias in the Roundtree era.

You can cling to the "hope" that CSM didn't get a codex because GW wanted to hold the bulk of core army codex releases until 8th dropped. If so, then their next update *may* balance them.

GodDamUser wrote:

 koooaei wrote:

We'll have charges from rhinos once again. So, taking into consideration they'll probably make vehicles a tad more durable, this thing alone can make csm an even tougher cc army. Your csm in rhinos will no longer be tax.

But if you compare that with every other race, that has transports and CC.. it doesn't mean anything..

If anything I would worry for 8th as a whole as it may become who charges first wins kinda of game..

Like what? Orks? We allready have open-topped transports. SM? Only wuff troops can take ccw and their grey hunters are way less effective than csm in cc - more expensive, no cc bonuses. Only blood angels will really benefit but than again, not nearly as good as khorne/nurgle/slaanesh marines. Eldar? With what? Banshees? Only wraithblades are any good in this role. But eldar transports cost like an extra squad. The only ones i can think of that will benefit as much as csm are gsc and grey knights. Oh, and sisters of battle will probably see their repentia naked ladies finally used.

never sell armies. That is my opinion.

Your best bet until 8th hits is to do nothing. Just play until the end of the edition/whatever.

There's a small chance CSM will be good in the next edition, and you would let them go for nothing. There is a moderate chance they will continue to suck/become moderate.

The machines of war shall grind ever on. I have GOT to jettison my surplus though. Soo..much...surplus. could be a good time to pick stuff up that is fairly common. The more powerful something is the more liiiiiikely it is to be nerf'd so buying up the really powerful stuff is not as sure a bet but I really need to get on EBay and so some selling so I can prepare for my next wave o purchases.

 koooaei wrote:

Like what? Orks? We allready have open-topped transports

Which is why I'm all about charging out of rhinos. It's a HUGE nerf to Orks. They give every one else our "trick", yet our vehicles are still open topped and blow up. Most other armies gain, yet orks are left in the dust again.

DE also get screwed.

What is it with these guys?

Nah, you can make the rule such that the vehicle can't move before you get out if you want to assault. Further, you could make it a disordered charge. Ork trucks and other open-top and/or assault vehicles still have an advantage.

I know how you feel OP, I've been this way with my Orks since the last codex dropped, and eventually started selling off the "excess", which is slowly turning into the bulk of the army. (We'll always have 3rd edition, Greenskins)

As for Chaos right now - the new Traitor Legions book certainly helps. Not loyalist-level helps, but you can make some decent armies. The Death Guard in particular, would make great use of Obliterators, while their heavy weapons can now move and fire, which sounds like a lot of fun. Toss in some Nurgle bikers... that would be a tough one for an opponent to shift.

For my part, I have a World Eater army I'm working on, and my focus is just on my love of the miniatures. I'm glad the new rules will make them more effective, but I just like the look, so that keeps me working at it.

If the look and theme has soured for you, and another army is fun, I'd say it's time to pack them away and wait. Either GW will roll out new rules that make them a blast to play, or in a few years you can start selling them off guilt-free, with memories of the good-old-days. (We'll always have 3.5, Chaos)

As an ork player I know what playing a bad codex is like. That being said who cares. The game is already so unbalanced as it is that you should just be playing what you like to build and model. If I really wanted to win games I would be focusing more on getting scatbikes for my eldar.

Build and paint for the aesthetic of the army, not the gameplay. If you don't find chaos marines interesting anymore then I'd say ignore them. Most of the time if your opponent isn't a complete tool you'll still have fun even games. You'd be surprised how much orks win when not playing tournaments. And who knows what 8th edition will bring.

Chaos are fun.

To make them viable you NEED to use traitor legions detachments, they buff up a good army to be better at what they are best at.

fwlr wrote:
Chaos are fun.

To make them viable you NEED to use traitor legions detachments, they buff up a good army to be better at what they are best at.

It does.

 Kavish wrote:
Keep in mind that they are competing with my other armies; Space Wolves and Dark Angels. Chaos are cool and everything but maybe not cool enough to make up for the fact that they are worse than Space Wolves in every way. I don't care much for dinobots. The only things keeping me on board currently is Abaddon, Obliterators, and Spawn. Everything else is weaker and not different enough from it's equivalent in SW to be worth it. I've loved Chaos since the mid 90s so it's tough for me to quit them. Have a baby now and need to downsize.

If you need to downsize, you need to downsize. Having a child is a big responsibility.

Maybe it's time to realise that you want to wolf down your wolf-biscuits on a bright wolf-morning, bellow out a hello to the wolf-sun and hop in to your wolf-car to go to your wolf-job pushing wolf-pens around.