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 Insectum7 wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
3rd edition for lyfe baby. Boring as it may be, everything was so much simpler.

Huh. . . Why 3rd and not 4th? I always felt 4th was the "ironed out" 3rd with better codexes. If I had to choose, 4th would be my go-to.

I own both Fish of Fury and Iron Warrior Ordnance Spam. I know the terrible power to be held there and never wish to unlock it again.

Granted, both were technically at the tail end of 3rd edition but still.

After trying to convince a bunch of people to stick with a 7e/8e blend for WHFB instead of abandoning the game when AoS hit I really don't think so. I may try and compose a 'greatest hits' edition (which would be mostly 4e/5e with back-fitted later-released models and some of the standardization from 7e and HH) but that's a long process and I don't know if I could get anyone to try it.

Nope. Not sticking with 7th ed. Good riddance.

Could be fun with a stroll through the editions with a 1500ish points selection. Not sure which army to take there. Wouldn't want hardcounter myself.

FunJohn wrote:

 MagicJuggler wrote:
As a Word Bearers player, I'm...not in any particular hurry to switch editions for awhile, as very few of the announcements or articles assure me this is an edition I would enjoy playing.

Does anyone else here plan to wait it out for a bit, either sticking to 7th or even going back a few editions back (5e Oldhammer) while assorted things sort themselves out?

From your wording it seems like 7th favors word bears in some way or do you have a codex that's going away? I'm just curious, but why are you not in a hurry to switch? Rules-wise almost everything i've seen of 8th makes it look like an easier, and much, much improved verison of 40K.

Summoning rules change so he has to pay for the daemons he summons now.


If you want to stick with modern 40k; go 5th. If you want classic 40k; go 2nd.
7th was a bandaid on 6th which was a mistake from 5th.

 n0t_u wrote:
...If you want to stick with modern 40k; go 5th...

Though you may need to do something about psybolt, 35pt Rhinos, Musical Wounds, and the whole staple-Chapter-Tactics-to-the-special-characters mess.

(No edition is perfect, but 5th takes less patching than most.)

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 n0t_u wrote:
...If you want to stick with modern 40k; go 5th...

Though you may need to do something about psybolt, 35pt Rhinos, Musical Wounds, and the whole staple-Chapter-Tactics-to-the-special-characters mess.

(No edition is perfect, but 5th takes less patching than most.)

Yeh, by best it's probably meant it works the best out of them. I never played against the horror of mech guard more than once or twice but had melta heavy sisters with the witch hunters codex still so it wasn't that bad. Out of it all really the main annoyances were wound allocation shenanigans based.

Dear god no... 7th is by far the worst edition of 40k ever. Explosive power creep, army imbalance on a scale not seen in decades, pay to win models, formations that shatter the game.. just no. I mean, I get that you're mad because you actually have to -pay- for the daemons you summon now, but CSM - legions, renegades, cults, etc. are in the worst place they've been in years. I can't believe you'd actually want to stay with this edition. I have TS and NL, and even with the WoM book, TS are completely shafted. CSM have horrible rules, worse units and over-priced, under-performing units littering our codex/supplements.

I would never - NEVER - stay with 7th.

Nope, I didn't like 6th and while 7th did smooth over some of the issues I really never got into it.

8th seems much more promising.

If 8th bombs I'll likely go back to 5th or homebrew with 2nd.
Wont stick with 7th though - too much bloat and randomness in it.

Breng77 wrote:
No 7th was my least favorite of all the editions I have played. To the extent where I took almost a 2 year break in playing. The down turn for me started at the end of 6e with more RPS match-ups, deathstars, and uber shooting. I can't wait for 8th. I think the game needs a reset. Will things be perfect right away? no. But they have a much better chance than sticking with 7e. Throw in that I think moving away from the codex model was a much needed change for balance and I will change tomorrow if the edition drops.

7th hasn't been out for two years.
In which alternate timelines do all you 7th-haters live?

Will definitely switch.

It would be nice not to have to worry too much about making a broken list when playing casually. I'm tired of holding back the dogs of war a bit. There are a lot of cool models in my collection at this point that don't see the table, simply by way of request of my opponents, which i happily honor.

I will miss the psychic phase. Not some of the powers (summoning, invisibility, other cheese), but by in large when people play a casual game the phase is actually really well designed. That said, they could speed up power generation by simply letting you pick your powers in 8th.

And, of course, game speed. If the game is faster, i'm all for it.

 Vryce wrote:
Dear god no... 7th is by far the worst edition of 40k ever. Explosive power creep, army imbalance on a scale not seen in decades, pay to win models, formations that shatter the game.. just no. I mean, I get that you're mad because you actually have to -pay- for the daemons you summon now, but CSM - legions, renegades, cults, etc. are in the worst place they've been in years. I can't believe you'd actually want to stay with this edition. I have TS and NL, and even with the WoM book, TS are completely shafted. CSM have horrible rules, worse units and over-priced, under-performing units littering our codex/supplements.

I would never - NEVER - stay with 7th.

4e CSM were borderline unplayable. I honestly don't get why people forget how horrid the Gavdex was.

morgoth wrote:

Breng77 wrote:
No 7th was my least favorite of all the editions I have played. To the extent where I took almost a 2 year break in playing. The down turn for me started at the end of 6e with more RPS match-ups, deathstars, and uber shooting. I can't wait for 8th. I think the game needs a reset. Will things be perfect right away? no. But they have a much better chance than sticking with 7e. Throw in that I think moving away from the codex model was a much needed change for balance and I will change tomorrow if the edition drops.

7th hasn't been out for two years.
In which alternate timelines do all you 7th-haters live?

The one where 'rounding errors' exist. Also the one where a lot of the things that make 7th annoying started life in 6th.

Nope. I played 2-4th Edition, and left when 5th came out. I never dreamed of coming back until I started reading up on some of these rule changes, and seeing some of the changes GW have been making as a whole. Very promising stuff!

morgoth wrote:


7th hasn't been out for two years.
In which alternate timelines do all you 7th-haters live?

Obviously not the alternate timeline where 7th is actually worth a damn.

 Luciferian wrote:

morgoth wrote:


7th hasn't been out for two years.
In which alternate timelines do all you 7th-haters live?

Obviously not the alternate timeline where 7th is actually worth a damn.

Clearly 8th is going to be better, but I don't see why people hate so much on 7th when it was so much better than 6th...

7th as a narrative rules systems functions well enough. It's almost a sandbox game. The codexes on the other hand... those are horrid.

I dunno right now.

morgoth wrote:

 Luciferian wrote:

morgoth wrote:


7th hasn't been out for two years.
In which alternate timelines do all you 7th-haters live?

Obviously not the alternate timeline where 7th is actually worth a damn.

Clearly 8th is going to be better, but I don't see why people hate so much on 7th when it was so much better than 6th...

Which still wasn't as good at 5th sadly.

morgoth wrote:

 Luciferian wrote:

morgoth wrote:


7th hasn't been out for two years.
In which alternate timelines do all you 7th-haters live?

Obviously not the alternate timeline where 7th is actually worth a damn.

Clearly 8th is going to be better, but I don't see why people hate so much on 7th when it was so much better than 6th...

both editions were major missteps. 7E and 6E both had major core issues, but as many issues as 7E fixed from 6E, it doubled down on others or simply mucked up the transition (e.g. Big Guns Never Tire mission, where in 6E the extra bonus for killing HS units was balanced with HS units getting to score, while in 7E everything could score so HS units were just a liability because they never thought about the missions). 7E also had even more randomness and even worse codex balance, coupled with insane army construction rules, allowing for power combos beyond what any edition has seen before.

Really, both 6E and 7E are the low points of this game's history.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MagicJuggler wrote:

 Vryce wrote:
Dear god no... 7th is by far the worst edition of 40k ever. Explosive power creep, army imbalance on a scale not seen in decades, pay to win models, formations that shatter the game.. just no. I mean, I get that you're mad because you actually have to -pay- for the daemons you summon now, but CSM - legions, renegades, cults, etc. are in the worst place they've been in years. I can't believe you'd actually want to stay with this edition. I have TS and NL, and even with the WoM book, TS are completely shafted. CSM have horrible rules, worse units and over-priced, under-performing units littering our codex/supplements.

I would never - NEVER - stay with 7th.

4e CSM were borderline unplayable. I honestly don't get why people forget how horrid the Gavdex was.

well, it was playable, it just wasnt terribly fluffy or fun for most CSM factions. I did quite well with the book, particularly in early 5E (mechanized CSM's in rhinos with icons and deep striking termi and oblit squads synergized really well then and worked as an "Iron Warriors" fluff list) but it lacked any sense of soul for the faction as a whole and lacked options for proper fluffy units, particularly for Cult Legion armies.

No.

I have a couple concerns about the 8th ed rules hints, but I'm waiting to see how the body rules is handled.

But, in general, I like it so far. Most of all, I like tossing out formations, the rending AP system, and no more free units (e.g. summoning).

Though, I can honestly sympathize for a CSM player who wanted to get some more mileage out of the traitor's legion book you guys have been wanting for years.

For orks, though, it would be kind of hard to do worse than 7th. Not that they won't try, I'm sure.

morgoth wrote:

Breng77 wrote:
No 7th was my least favorite of all the editions I have played. To the extent where I took almost a 2 year break in playing. The down turn for me started at the end of 6e with more RPS match-ups, deathstars, and uber shooting. I can't wait for 8th. I think the game needs a reset. Will things be perfect right away? no. But they have a much better chance than sticking with 7e. Throw in that I think moving away from the codex model was a much needed change for balance and I will change tomorrow if the edition drops.

7th hasn't been out for two years.
In which alternate timelines do all you 7th-haters live?

Ummmm...the one where it released May 24 2014, it is now May 2017...so it has been out 3 years in about a week. Which timeline are you from. Until recently I played 1 Apoc game between July 2014 and April 2017, so that would be July 2014-July 2016 (2 years) + August 2016 - March 2017 (8 months). SO 2 years 8 months with 1 game. So 2 years was actually pretty generous.

Beyond that 7th was worse than even 6e (which at least started ok before going into the trash), 7e was bad pretty much from the start, and then added tons of rules upon rules. To be fair it may have gotten better after I stopped playing, but to me it took the things I hated about 6e and made them worse. Psychic phase, tons of shooting, adding super heavies.

I enjoyed 7th for what it was. There was lots of ways to build armies, and between 6/7th we had tons of additional forces get added, including Genestealer Cults.

However I'm looking forward to seeing the new rules. I mean, they managed to make Rubric Marines look attractive for the very first time.
Plus it isn't gonna be expensive to get into, which is the key part for me.

Nope, in fact just looking at the new rules they have been leaking, i'm certain I won't play another game until the new edition drops. I can't bring my self to go through 7th ed again.

vaktahi wrote:well, it was playable, it just wasnt terribly fluffy or fun for most CSM factions. I did quite well with the book, particularly in early 5E (mechanized CSM's in rhinos with icons and deep striking termi and oblit squads synergized really well then and worked as an "Iron Warriors" fluff list) but it lacked any sense of soul for the faction as a whole and lacked options for proper fluffy units, particularly for Cult Legion armies.

Let's not kid ourselves here.

Spawn? Unplayable. Slow and Purposeful, and stupid to boot. They *had* to charge the closest enemy, even if said enemy was a Dreadnought.

Dreadnoughts? Unplayable. You always rolled Crazed, no matter what, you had to shoot the closest dudes (including your own guys), and RAW fights took place over whether it could TLOS out its own ass.

Noise Marines? Unplayable. 25 points for a storm Bolter marine that fires an extra shot if stationary?

Rubric Marines? Even more unplayable. You had to pay extra for a Psychic power that didn't synergize with the rest of the guns and jacked costs up further. For all the badness of 7e Sons, you can at least generate a Warp Charge and occasionally roll a decent power.

Possessed? Even more unplayable. One D6 pregame to determine their power. They couldn't even Outflank since you had to deploy before they got to roll Scouts.

Remember 33-point Chaos Bikes, 20-point Autocannons for Havocs, etc? It was truly a dark age.

Oh yeah, and no marks. Only Icons. Snipe (or "torrent of fire") the Icon Bearer, and your Khorne Marines would go "blood for the blood...Bob?"

Really, cheap Daemon Princes and cheaper Defilers were the only thing that codex had over the current one.

To be fair, most of those units werent any better in the 3.5 codex either. Rubric Marines weren't particularly great (they had 2 wounds but no invul or AP3), Bikes were similarly expensive, Raptors were like 27ppm, possessed were even worse, dreads were still pointlessly unreliable, etc. The 4E book didnt create those issues it just took away most of the stuff that made them interesting like proper Marks and the like

I might be able to get some games under 8th. So I'm looking forward to it.

I'm going to give 8th edition a shot. Hoping that it'll simplify things without killing tactical depth.

Currently the amount of preparation I have to put into 7th edition games is equivalent to the amount of effort I put into prepping for a day of airsoft, which is just too much for what it is.

God no, let this monstrosity die. Sorry you don't get 5000pts of free daemons every game now but you being butthurt about having to play fair isn't a very good reason to keep going with the dumpster fire 7th ended up as.