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 Oaka wrote:

Tautastic wrote:

Well seems to be 2 big misplay there. First of, only INFANTRY and BIKERS (and Ycarne) can soulburst. I do believe Starweavers are vehicles so no Soulburst for it. Also, the units embarked on transports cannot soulburst since they are not technically on the battlefield and what you quoted. No soulburst for embarked units (its different if the vehicle is destroyed though and they have to disembark).

It sounds like he flew the harlies in a starweaver within 3" of their pistols, unloaded on a unit and then soulbursted on another from out of the transport (hell, with splitfire that could take out many units). Yeah, that's a big no-no, and I would be salty too. Strength 8, -4 AP, D6 damage pistols that roll 2D6 and discard the lowest if within 3" for 9 points that every model in the unit can take- I think GW made a mistake with that one. Especially because when embarked you get to measure that 3" half range from anywhere on the starweaver. I was comparing a venom filled with blaster trueborn and a starweaver with fusion pistol clowns and it makes me sad how much better the second one is.

Yeah I noticed that too by watching the book after that, he didn't Soulburst on his vehicles he knew the rule, however yes he couldn't Soulburst the embarked units neither. Next time I'm playing against this I'm destroying them ASAP.

Tautastic wrote:
Played against a Starweaver filled fusion pistol clowns. They are okay. The range is only 6" and if it is Ynnari the starweaver is only moving 16". Depending on how you deploy they might not even hit anything turn 1. Now same set up in a harlequin army (the one I played against), they can get dangerous. 22" move now. But again with only 6" range just put some single wound in front of your multi-wound units and chances are they will not be able to hit them in Turn 1. Turn 2 is a whole different story...So choose wisely what to attack.

If a starweaver advances, the players inside can't shoot their pistols. Rising crescendo allows you to charge after advancing, not to shoot pistols.

Nice catch fresus! I thought they were Assault type weapons. My friend would not like that bit of news haha.

On the other hand, Eldar Ynnari are still pretty strong!

Strong ? They look flawless to me but only one game against them is not enough to form an opinion I suppose.

How do we fight them ? I guess the best bet is to start by decimating their units enough so that they aren't a nuisance anymore, but not totally destroy them so as to allow a Soulburst thing. Also, they seem reliant on being 6" close to something dying, so spreading out and keeping distances ? My army can do that but against Orks I can't imagine the laughs the Ynnari player will have.

Ynnari actually took a big hit in 8th (rightfully so). With everyone getting splitfire you just spread out your guns and leave 1 guy in each unit. Scatbikes are dead too now and no more Soulbursting WK. Well...WK itself is basically dead too. They lose all their "D" weapons (got to wait for FW models though). No more 48" bikes too but 16" movement is still pretty fast.

So they definitely got toned down a peg or two but still are strong, not OP now. Farseer is still a ridiculously good psyker but cost 170+ points to be on a bike. They are still fast (spiders has a 21" average move)! They still will hit like a truck but not a nuke like in 7th.

Shadowseer - Shield from Harm. It subtracts one from attacks' damage made against harlie infantry within 6" of shadowseer. There is no minimum. This means the harlie infantry is 'immune' to 1 dmg weapons (and shoot)? This looks good.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Shadowseer - Shield from Harm. It subtracts one from attacks' damage made against harlie infantry within 6" of shadowseer. There is no minimum. This means the harlie infantry is 'immune' to 1 dmg weapons (and shoot)? This looks good.

glnngu wrote:
Shadowseer - Shield from Harm. It subtracts one from attacks' damage made against harlie infantry within 6" of shadowseer. There is no minimum. This means the harlie infantry is 'immune' to 1 dmg weapons (and shoot)? This looks good.

No, it subtracts 1 from the wound rolls.

Which is still pretty amazing. It's like a toughness buff that scales to the strength of the enemy attacking you and makes you far more resilient to small arms fire (the dread enemy of all Harlequins).

How important do you think the 3 Ynnari characters are in a Ynnari army?

 vipoid wrote:
How important do you think the 3 Ynnari characters are in a Ynnari army?

Not super important. Their healing abilities seem wasted because you can't allocate wounds to them when you would want to. Visarch's lack of an invulernable save makes him practically unusable. The Ycarne' deployment rules kind of hurt. 6+ ignore a wound is a waste of time. 6" bubble with her auto-pass morale tests doesn't seem good either. Also 337 points? Seems over costed. Avatar is 250 by comparison.

 Silent_Tempest wrote:

 vipoid wrote:
How important do you think the 3 Ynnari characters are in a Ynnari army?

Not super important. Their healing abilities seem wasted because you can't allocate wounds to them when you would want to. Visarch's lack of an invulernable save makes him practically unusable. The Ycarne' deployment rules kind of hurt. 6+ ignore a wound is a waste of time. 6" bubble with her auto-pass morale tests doesn't seem good either. Also 337 points? Seems over costed. Avatar is 250 by comparison.

I mostly agree.
Yvraine looks okay, especially if you can cast Word of the Phoenix on non-infantry/biker units, but it's far from impressive.
The Visarch is very bad. He costs as much as two troupe masters with embraces, but only has the damage output of a single one, and no aura.
The Avatar hits like a truck, and can wreck vehicles/MCs very quickly. With SftD and enemy units closely packed, she could kill two vehicles per player turn. But she's quite expensive, and not being able to enter quickly is very bad in an edition where T1 charges seem like the norm. I could see this model being a hit or miss: on some game wreck twice her point costs, and in others just end up killing close to nothing.

It's very sad that they didn't get buffing auras like other HQs have. Especially to increase Ynarri's appeal relative to keeping the Harl/DE/CWE special rules.

I think Yvraine's +1 to manifest powers and deny the witch could prove quite pivotal when certain powers need to be cast or prevented. And as already mentioned, if the soulburst power can target any Ynnari unit and not just infantry and bikers then it is an exceptional ability. For a psyker, she's also not too expensive.

Visarch has no place in any of my lists, I'd rather take almost any other Aeldari HQ.

Yncarne will probably be a staple in most of my lists. I like how she can just be placed when a unit dies and provides an instant 6+ ignore wounds and ignore morale buff. She is a powerful force multiplier that gets better the more wounds and units you surround her with. As I plan to go heavy with Drukhari beasts, that is very valuable to me. In an edition with increased wounds on everything, gaining them back also seems quite good to me.

Really, I think the soulburst psychic power is very good and flexible and those are the only two models who can cast it, so having at least one of them on the table each turn allows a variety of tactical choices. Being able to target any unit within 18" should not be underestimated when normally you have to position your units 7" away from other units to soulburst. The same holds true for being able to soulburst in the psychic phase rather than the shooting or fight phases.

8th psychic attacks are not resolved as shooting attacks (so you can use them in combat etc.). This means that Gaze of Ynnead can be used against any character within 18", it doesn't have to be the closest model.It makes that power even more interesting.

I actually don't think Gaze of Ynnead is any better than Smite, and in a lot of situations, it's worse (warp charge value of 8 is rough). In your specific example, however, it does allow character targeting. But if you are fighting another character in melee you do get to just Smite them in the face!

With the rules for "matched play" you can't ever duplicate powers. There's no point I think in taking both Yvarine and Ycarne. (Also that rule fething sucks for us.) I don't feel like the Yccarne is all that good against vehicles seeing how she needs 5+ to get wounds and can't naturally reroll damage. I think Yvarine and the Avatar of Khaine might be a good combo.

Also normal farseers still get rerolls in the pyshic phase. Eldrad is actually pretty good here as well since he gets +1 for every power he gets off.

Also are Vypers good now? 85 points for dual shuriken cannons doesn't seem bad considering how expensive jetbikes are now.

I think Yvraine is great for her points and the best of the 3 characters. She compares decently well with the Farseer: not much more expensive, way better in cc, similar casting ability (though worse psychic defence), ability to ride all Aeldari transports, best power of the bunch with Word of the Phoenix.

I'd go so far as to say she's even good in a pure Dark Eldar army as psychic support considering their HQs are a bit rubbish - just run around casting Smite & Gaze of Ynnead, and denying a power with +1, she'll make her points.

The Yncarne is good in theory, however in the game I used her not being able to deploy on the table turn 1 was a serious problem. This is the edition of the turn 1 alpha strike - I really needed that 6" bubble right away.

 Silent_Tempest wrote:
I don't feel like the Yccarne is all that good against vehicles seeing how she needs 5+ to get wounds and can't naturally reroll damage.

Yncarne gets to reroll all failed wounds with her sword, so that does help. She looks like she would destroy multi-wound, high toughness infantry, and should get 2-3 wounds on a T7+ model, at D6 damage per wound. She can also give herself an extra set of attacks in the psychic phase.

 Oaka wrote:

 Silent_Tempest wrote:
I don't feel like the Yccarne is all that good against vehicles seeing how she needs 5+ to get wounds and can't naturally reroll damage.

Yncarne gets to reroll all failed wounds with her sword, so that does help. She looks like she would destroy multi-wound, high toughness infantry, and should get 2-3 wounds on a T7+ model, at D6 damage per wound. She can also give herself an extra set of attacks in the psychic phase.

Even getting a reroll she still needs 5's. 337 is a huge cost for a unit you won't even get to deploy until part way through the battle. And she can't charge the turn she arrives. So there's that. Turn 2 charge at best. I'm thinking in most games you will want to summon her next to your units to use her bubble effects while protecting her from the enemy shooting. With every unit now having split fire I think it will be easy to whittle down our units until 1-2 models remain. Both reducing the effects of soul bursts and making it hard to summon the Ycarne.

With regard to Yvraine, how would you run her?

As in, what would you put her with?

 vipoid wrote:
With regard to Yvraine, how would you run her?

As in, what would you put her with?

I don't know. I've only been able to play one game of 8th so far. I'm thinking Eldrad, Yvarine, and a warlock for conceal will make a pretty good little base of buffs. Not sure what they should be buffing though. I know Dire Avengers suck. I know rangers also suck. That leaves Guardians. Which I think suck but not quite sure yet. That's all of our troops.

Which makes me think I should be trying to figure out what wraithblade/wraithguard unit to put them behind. Which is where I'm currently at. Or some other Aspect. Dark Reapers maybe?

Eldrad seems like the best choice among farseers. Since you can't duplicate powers having two farseers means one will either not be casting a power or casting smite. Which I don't care about. Eldrad is 180 vs 226 for two farseers. Eldrad can cast Guide, Fortune, Doom by himself every turn. Every time he casts a power it makes the next power easier. Save the power you need the most for last. Seems like taking Eldrad in every list is a no-brainer. Which sucks. It's the same gak as 4th edition where every one took Eldrad every game. Normal farseers were terrible.

If I have a ynnari wraithguard squad in a wave serpent and the wave serpent is destroyed, can I soul burst the wraithguard squad? Strength from death says soul burst is immediately after unit is destroyed. Transport rules say you place your models before removing transport. I can see both sides of argument saying you can or cannot. Not sure what is correct application of rule.

 vipoid wrote:
With regard to Yvraine, how would you run her?

As in, what would you put her with?

I'm a complete noob in regards to Eldar, but I plan to run her in a Starweaver with a 5-man Harlequin Troupe. Moving or disembarking + no powers from inside a transport is a pain in the ass, but you sacrifice a turn of psychic powers for the mobility and safety granted by the vehicle.

It's a shame the Visarch got such gakky rules (or such a high point cost), the model is absolutely badass. I'm considering converting him to be used as Karandras (28 points more for a 2+ save, toughness 4, and extra wound and useful special rules), in support of Striking Scorpions. If you think about it they could work nicely together with Word of the Phoenix : appear, move and charge.
I may be shooting myself in the foot in case the standalone Ynnari codex buffs him, but we don't really know how much will we have to wait for that.

I am thinking of using Yvriane with a shadow seer and two 6 man units of skyweavers. Twilight pathway on unit, words of the phoenix the other. Now you have two units of jet bikes that can move twice at 16'' and can fly over enemies, easily putting them in charge range of just about everything on the board. Send the words of the phoenix skyweavers at a character for an easy kill and then the twilight pathway unit at the enemy unit the character was hiding behind. When the character dies the twilight pathway skyweavers can soul burst and kill the unit if they haven't already done it.

Yvraine will be leading a full-strength Harlequin unit in my foot-slogging list. With buffs from her psychic powers, and the auras from the Troupe Leader and Shadowseer, it's as close to a deathstar unit as I can find.

Edit: Now that I think about it, there is nothing preventing you from casting both movement psychic powers (Twilight Pathway and Word of Phoenix) on the same unit. Theoretically, a unit of Harlequins can be 16" upfield at the start of the turn 1 movement phase.

 Oaka wrote:

Edit: Now that I think about it, there is nothing preventing you from casting both movement psychic powers (Twilight Pathway and Word of Phoenix) on the same unit. Theoretically, a unit of Harlequins can be 16" upfield at the start of the turn 1 movement phase.

Since characters don't move with the unit it may be hard to keep the psyker close enough.

Also I think people are reading Eldrad wrong. It's +1 to the next psychic test, not +1 to all following tests. A lot of people seem to be reading that as a cumulative effect.

What do you guys think is a better close combat unit, skyweavers or shining spears? I think one unit of skyweavers is nescessary for twilight path but shining spears might be better for word of the pheonix.

Fhionnuisce wrote:

 Oaka wrote:

Edit: Now that I think about it, there is nothing preventing you from casting both movement psychic powers (Twilight Pathway and Word of Phoenix) on the same unit. Theoretically, a unit of Harlequins can be 16" upfield at the start of the turn 1 movement phase.

Since characters don't move with the unit it may be hard to keep the psyker close enough.

Double checked the powers, Twilight Pathway can be cast on a Harlequin unit within 3" and Word of the Phoenix can be cast on a Ynnari unit within 18", so obviously Twilight Pathway needs to be cast first. You do lose any characters with the unit and the auras they provide, but that's going to be true of any additional movement bonus in this edition.