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http://imgur.com/a/XNwSg

There is a lot of information there to digest. There are a few obvious changes that stick out to me:

Yncarne is an HQ choice, and only the Yncarne and Yvraine can use powers from the Revenant table. No other Aeldari psyker can use these powers now.

Cheapest single unit for Strength from Death appears to be a 7-point Razorwing Flock (but only infantry and bikers can use the rule; beasts, cavalry and monsters cannot). A minimum of 2 Khymerae must now be taken for 20 points per unit.

Webway Portals are gone! But...

Shared Transports: Now with multiple units allowed in any Aeldari transport, there are lots of options and combinations.

The wording for Strength from Death now appears to suggest that you can either charge OR fight in assault. You don't get to do both.

 Oaka wrote:
The wording for Strength from Death now appears to suggest that you can either charge OR fight in assault. You don't get to do both.

I disagree. It allows you to charge. Then during the fight phase, any unit that is within 1" or charged this turn is allowed to fight.
What's unclear to me is what happens if you soulburst during the fight phase, and use it to charge.

Also, shared transport is only for units with the Ynnead's will special rule. Only Yvraine and the visarch have it, so it's just like 7th edition.

For Harlequins, going Ynarri still seems like the obvious choice (and it can be done with a 100% harlequin force now). Rising crescendo is nice, especially for skyweavers that now have it (22" move/advance, shoot at BS-1 then charge for almost guaranteed T1 charge).
I haven't read too much into DE and CWE, but it seems like it's still well worth it too.

For Harlequins, going Ynarri still seems like the obvious choice (and it can be done with a 100% harlequin force now). Rising crescendo is nice, especially for skyweavers that now have it (22" move/advance, shoot at BS-1 then charge for almost guaranteed T1 charge).

But Ynnari Harlequins lose Rising Crescendo. Good catch on Ynnead's Will, having it as an army special rule made me automatically assume more than two models had it.

As for Strength from Death, it will be interesting to see clarifications on it. The last sentence in the main rules for the paragraph (3. Choose Targets) reads, "Models that charged this turn can only target enemy units that they charged in the previous phase". So that means you don't get to attack if you charged in the shooting or fight phases. It could be very powerful for charging two units, though. Striking first, allocate all attacks to the first unit, wiping it out, then immediately fight again. Since there is a pile-in move at the start of the fight phase, that unit will be able to move models closer to the second unit before swinging.

 Oaka wrote:

For Harlequins, going Ynarri still seems like the obvious choice (and it can be done with a 100% harlequin force now). Rising crescendo is nice, especially for skyweavers that now have it (22" move/advance, shoot at BS-1 then charge for almost guaranteed T1 charge).

But Ynnari Harlequins lose Rising Crescendo. Good catch on Ynnead's Will, having it as an army special rule made me automatically assume more than two models had it.

Yes, I somehow didn't finish my sentence… I meant that even if rising crescendo is nice, SfD is much better. You can now attack in melee twice in the same turn, which is insanely good.

Also, while I find the new keyword system pretty nice overall, it actually works against Ynnari. Characters only buff nearby units of the same eldar sub-faction, same thing for the psychic powers. So mixing different eldar factions is pretty ineffective: adding a farseer to a mostly harlequin or DE army does very little.
It looks like the best way to run Ynnari is to go mono-faction, to maximize synergies, which goes against the core concept of the faction.

I hope GW will release Ynnari models in the future, that allow the different sub-factions to work together a lot better, and that the future kabals/cults/craftworlds/masques "chapter tactics" will give advantages that balance what you get from just porting your army to the Ynnari faction.

Scatterlaser Windriders got hit hard - they don't count as Relentless, so they take a -1 to hit penalty with those Heavy4 Scatter Lasers after moving. They can't charger afterwards either. No jetbike-slide in the assault phase to duck behind cover.

Alessander wrote:
Scatterlaser Windriders got hit hard - they don't count as Relentless, so they take a -1 to hit penalty with those Heavy4 Scatter Lasers after moving. They can't charger afterwards either. No jetbike-slide in the assault phase to duck behind cover.

Jetbikes are honestly decimated by the changes no pseudo jink 4+ save 2 wounds is nice but many weapons have multiple damage stats and a d3 averages the 2.

I'm just happy I didn't but a ton of jetbikes.

In terms of our old triumvirate visarch seems to squishy yvraine is meh as well the Yncarne can do some hurt but 337 points is more than a no weapon knight.

wraithknight is 402 base

 Zumikito wrote:
wraithknight is 402 base

Cheapest versions is Sword and board around 480ish, more expensive one it's the suncannon one with 520+ points.

And that's before adding the 2x possible shoulder weapons.



A little part of me died when i saw the Wraith guard as T5 and 3 W, now everything can hurt them way more reliable than ever. (i was expecting T6 2 W, i feel they may be weaker than ever before now) Not sure how my Wraithblades will hold now vs small fire so i guess back to serpent delivery for them.

Something I might be interested in trying out is using Leadership modifiers that are available across all the different Aeldari factions. Warlocks can now be taken as single HQ choices, and can cast Horrify that causes -1 Ld to an enemy unit. Dark Eldar phantasm grenade launchers seem to be a reliable way to tag a unit with an additional -1 Ld, and then the Visarch causes another -1 modifier with his blade.

The Death Jester has an interesting new rule that allows you to choose the first model that is removed due to a failed Morale test. With stacking modifiers, could this be a neat way to 'Morale Snipe' heavy and special weapons in enemy units? Playing some 8th edition games will make it apparent how important Morale will be.

Alessander wrote:
Scatterlaser Windriders got hit hard - they don't count as Relentless, so they take a -1 to hit penalty with those Heavy4 Scatter Lasers after moving. They can't charger afterwards either. No jetbike-slide in the assault phase to duck behind cover.

Well relentless doesn't exist anymore. All weapon types can shoot and charge into melee. The only restriction is you can't charge with a unit that advanced or fell back.

Lord Perversor wrote:
A little part of me died when i saw the Wraith guard as T5 and 3 W, now everything can hurt them way more reliable than ever. (i was expecting T6 2 W, i feel they may be weaker than ever before now) Not sure how my Wraithblades will hold now vs small fire so i guess back to serpent delivery for them.

Toughness 5 means str 5 wounds you on a 4+, true. But strength 6 and 7 are only wounding you on 3's. You have to double out to wound on 2's now so its really not THAT bad of a nerf. 3 wounds instead of 1 though is just fantastic all around. Idk, it might just be a case of playtesting them to see how long they last. Its hard to guess just from looking at statlines.

T5 W3 is better than T6 W2 in 8th ed.

Um... the Yncarne can't be targeted because she's a 9-wound character. Well, I know who my warlord is.

 Oaka wrote:
Um... the Yncarne can't be targeted because she's a 9-wound character. Well, I know who my warlord is.

And she's an HQ now instead of LOW.

I 'think' I'm reading the rules correctly, but a venom full of trueborn with blasters, that can all shoot from it even after it advances, cannot shoot from it using Strength from Death? Embarked units cannot normally interact with other game rules, but the open-topped rule allows them to shoot. The question being can the trueborn be selected as a valid unit for SfD?

I'm also liking the force multiplier beastmaster in the middle of blobs of beast units. Rerolls of 1's seem to be all over the place but he lets them reroll all misses and use his leadership. Now that you can pick which combat drugs to use he can take the +2 Ld one, so beasts are testing at Ld 9. If he happens to get sniped, well I'll just replace him with Yncarne, giving the beasts morale immunity and a 6+ wound shrug-off. The Yncarne is able to cast a reroll 1's to hit power on a beast unit, and I think can also let them soulburst, as they are a Ynnari unit, even though beasts are neither infantry nor bikers (if it does work that way then Ynnari psykers are important for giving soulburst to Wraithknights). While it's disappointing the craftworld psychic buffs can only affect craftworld units now, I may still add a warlock and/or farseer skyrunner to the mix to throw drain and doom on enemy units. The nice thing is all these characters have the fly keyword, so wouldn't be hindered by beast models if they need to join in combat. Characters still can't be targeted if there is a closer visible enemy unit, even if that unit is in melee and can't be targeted.

With the simplified rules Wraithcannon don't seem to offer much over Fusion Guns, don't think the difference between 8 and 10 strength will come up much, Fusion guns average about 28% more damage at half range, and Fire Dragons are vastly more mobile with +2 inches of movement and Battle Focus. Plus the fire dragon body is way cheaper even if the guns cost the same.

Speaking of fusion... 6 fusion pistol clown car drive-by averages almost exactly enough damage to kill a 12W tank. Unless you take a penalty for shooting out of vehicles now. Wouldn't surprise.

And speaking of Wraitguard... I don't see much of a place for the cannon, but the D-scythe variant looks hilarious as a blocking unit against enemy melee forces with their ability to just walk out of combat and shoot. Let them charge you, overwatch with your 100% accurate Dscythes, take your round of attacks on your buff wraithguard bodies, then just walk out of combat, hose the poor sobs down with your Dscythes again, and dare them to try another charge. Brutal.

Solitaire looks like a pretty potent assassin/distraction with that 'walk over enemies' 12" move. With the kiss he'd kill something with the Autarch's stat block in two rounds of combat, removing that nice buff aura. With soulburst you could do it in one. Or just hope they muck up their plans trying to kill the clown in their midst while you do other stuff.

Tempest launcher... stuff like the Fire Prism large blast doing a measly d6 hits or D-scythes doing d3 grinds my gears but 2d6? On the Tempest Launcher? No LOS? Doom/Guide/Reapers never looked so painful, wouldn't want to be the infantry squad on the receiving end of that.

Then again I wouldn't want to be the Eldar player who wasted his expensive Farseer's psychic phase prepping with doom and guide only to roll snake eyes for the number of shots but that's playing with dice.

m.stan wrote:

Solitaire looks like a pretty potent assassin/distraction with that 'walk over enemies' 12" move. With the kiss he'd kill something with the Autarch's stat block in two rounds of combat, removing that nice buff aura. With soulburst you could do it in one. Or just hope they muck up their plans trying to kill the clown in their midst while you do other stuff.

I like the Blitz/Soulburst synergy. You can either move 24+4D6" and charge or swing with 20 attacks. Nasty.

The Ynarri do lose some of their appeal given that you can take an army under the 'Aeldari' keyword and have access to absolutely everything Eldar including Yvraine and co, whilst keeping the various faction wide rules like Battle Focus etc.

How much use they get will depend on how Soulburst meshes with this edition - on paper it seems as overpowered as ever but who knows until the plastic is on the table.

Eldar don't really lose anything by being Ynnari. -1 to hit for Advancing and shooting Assault weapons is a fair price to pay for Soulburst.

Harlies, on the other hand, lose a lot.

New to posting here, but i keep reading things about all the cool things you can do with transports and Ynnari... from the looks the vehicles dont change what can go aboard them, just that they guys would have the Ynnai tag. Meaning i cannot have my wraithguard mount up on a raider like with 7th ed.

Am i not reading this right (the transports not being FA options are killing me, since i ran "tank-dar" before with 7th rules.)

 Voodue wrote:
New to posting here, but i keep reading things about all the cool things you can do with transports and Ynnari... from the looks the vehicles dont change what can go aboard them, just that they guys would have the Ynnai tag. Meaning i cannot have my wraithguard mount up on a raider like with 7th ed.

Am i not reading this right (the transports not being FA options are killing me, since i ran "tank-dar" before with 7th rules.)

Ynnari have a special rule that lets them use any transport.

Only Yvraine and The Visarch have that special rule.

Crazy is correct from the way i read it as well, being ynari* in the list doesnt give you the Ynnead's Will rule, which just refers to the characters. And transports say how many and what specifically they transport now... i believe they killed my previous list =*(

 Voodue wrote:
Crazy is correct from the way i read it as well, being ynari* in the list doesnt give you the Ynnead's Will rule, which just refers to the characters. And transports say how many and what specifically they transport now... i believe they killed my previous list =*(

Sharing transport was also illegal in 7th since the Gathering Storm 2 FAQ, expect for Yvraine and the Visarch. So nothing has changed on that front.

But it's less of an issue now, since the wave serpents are effectively assault vehicles, like any transport.

There were all blood brothers and could share just not start embarked. Which at the time of that faq I did not know there was a difference with beginning the game embarked, and using the vehicle during game.

Hi guys, Mechanicus player here, I played a 1350 pts game against Ynnari today, thought you might want to know how it fared. So no worries by the look of my empty side by turn 3 your army looks nice. My opponent used mainly Harlequin Troupes and Troupe Masters, with 12 of them spread in two Starweavers. He also had like 15-20 Avengers, Jain Zarr, Asurmen, a bunch of Banshees and a bunch of bikes, don't remember which ones. He used the Starweavers to quickly transport his Troupes (all equipped with Fusion Pistols) to my vehicles to melt them down and used Soulburst to absurd amounts of cheese (in my humble opinion). I didn't play perfectly well to be honest but I never fought Ynnari before so didn't know what's up with them. I noticed however he used Soulburst to shoot again with his Fusion Blasters from the Starweaver, while the rules for embarked troops specify that "Unless specifically explained, embarked units cannot be affected by effects in any way" so no Soulburst for your embarked Fusion dudes (I'm a little salty because that's what destroyed a big chunk of my Support).

Every army is weaker now, so looking less OMG bs in isolation for Eldar isn't hitting you guys as hard as you think.

People will still hate you for bringing Ynnari, don't worry

Word of Pheonix activates soulburst on Ynnari units (didnt say units with SfD). Does it mean it will affect Wraithknights vehicles etc? I am sure it is not RAI but it sounds like it is RAW.

 Aaranis wrote:
Hi guys, Mechanicus player here, I played a 1350 pts game against Ynnari today, thought you might want to know how it fared. So no worries by the look of my empty side by turn 3 your army looks nice. My opponent used mainly Harlequin Troupes and Troupe Masters, with 12 of them spread in two Starweavers. He also had like 15-20 Avengers, Jain Zarr, Asurmen, a bunch of Banshees and a bunch of bikes, don't remember which ones. He used the Starweavers to quickly transport his Troupes (all equipped with Fusion Pistols) to my vehicles to melt them down and used Soulburst to absurd amounts of cheese (in my humble opinion). I didn't play perfectly well to be honest but I never fought Ynnari before so didn't know what's up with them. I noticed however he used Soulburst to shoot again with his Fusion Blasters from the Starweaver, while the rules for embarked troops specify that "Unless specifically explained, embarked units cannot be affected by effects in any way" so no Soulburst for your embarked Fusion dudes (I'm a little salty because that's what destroyed a big chunk of my Support).

Well seems to be 2 big misplay there. First of, only INFANTRY and BIKERS (and Ycarne) can soulburst. I do believe Starweavers are vehicles so no Soulburst for it. Also, the units embarked on transports cannot soulburst since they are not technically on the battlefield and what you quoted. No soulburst for embarked units (its different if the vehicle is destroyed though and they have to disembark).

Tautastic wrote:

Well seems to be 2 big misplay there. First of, only INFANTRY and BIKERS (and Ycarne) can soulburst. I do believe Starweavers are vehicles so no Soulburst for it. Also, the units embarked on transports cannot soulburst since they are not technically on the battlefield and what you quoted. No soulburst for embarked units (its different if the vehicle is destroyed though and they have to disembark).

It sounds like he flew the harlies in a starweaver within 3" of their pistols, unloaded on a unit and then soulbursted on another from out of the transport (hell, with splitfire that could take out many units). Yeah, that's a big no-no, and I would be salty too. Strength 8, -4 AP, D6 damage pistols that roll 2D6 and discard the lowest if within 3" for 9 points that every model in the unit can take- I think GW made a mistake with that one. Especially because when embarked you get to measure that 3" half range from anywhere on the starweaver. I was comparing a venom filled with blaster trueborn and a starweaver with fusion pistol clowns and it makes me sad how much better the second one is.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

glnngu wrote:
Word of Pheonix activates soulburst on Ynnari units (didnt say units with SfD). Does it mean it will affect Wraithknights vehicles etc? I am sure it is not RAI but it sounds like it is RAW.

That's what I read, too. First impression was it had to be wrong, but the more I think about it the more it made sense to me that only the two Ynnari psykers can do such a thing and in the last edition everything other than vehicles could soulburst anyway. I'm personally counting on it to get my wraithknight, wraithlords and beast packs swinging twice in melee, but I can see how using it for shooty units can get out of control.

Played against a Starweaver filled fusion pistol clowns. They are okay. The range is only 6" and if it is Ynnari the starweaver is only moving 16". Depending on how you deploy they might not even hit anything turn 1. Now same set up in a harlequin army (the one I played against), they can get dangerous. 22" move now. But again with only 6" range just put some single wound in front of your multi-wound units and chances are they will not be able to hit them in Turn 1. Turn 2 is a whole different story...So choose wisely what to attack.