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Aha!

The Siege of Terra by Bill King.

The traitors took significant time to reach Earth from the Solar System jump point - enough that mark 6 armour could be distributed in fairly large numbers and the mark 7 power armour production facilities could be relocated from Mars to Earth and go into limited production. The loyalist navy was mauled during this approach and retreated to the Moon, taking little part in the siege. The traitors had orbital superiority around Earth.

One spaceport fell to the rebels due to treason amongst the Imperial Army. The remaining defensive emplacements took out a significant number of the descending ships (including that of an entire Titan legion) and the other spaceports and the outer wall of the palace were taken by force of numbers. The Blood Angels held the walls of the outer palace for a few days until the Death's Heads Titan Legion broke it down. The White Scars and remaining Army units recaptured one of the spaceports, reducing the reinforcements available to Horus. The Imperial Fists and Blood Angels fell back to the Inner Palace, but the White Scars were cut off at the Lion's Gate spaceport.

Horus' original plan was to land on Earth and take the Imperial Palace personally, but when told the Space Wolves, Dark Angels and Ultramarines were hours away, he instead dropped the shields on his battle barge and the rest is history.

Horus' death banished the daemonic legions accompanying the traitor forces. At that point, the remaining traitor Primarchs knew the end was nigh, and retreated.

In that original story, only four traitor legions (as well as accompanying rebel elements from other Imperial military forces) were present - those of Magnus, Fulgrim, Mortarion and Angron. It's elsewhere been told that the Emperor's Children took little direct part in the siege, instead "amusing" themselves with the civilian population. the Iron Warriors, Alpha Legion, Word Bearers and Night Lords are never mentioned (in fact, I'm not even sure if they'd named those Legions' primarchs at that point).

 SickSix wrote:
Easy: The sight of the Khan Land Raider surfing was just too awesome. The cowardly traitors couldn't handle it.


They were destined to lose. The traitors fell to chaos becuase they all had glaring flaws (or at least their Primarchs did). It was Miracle that Horus even made it to Terra. And like others have said, he was the only reason that group stayed together. Once dead, every man for themselves.

in one of the novels (I wanna say Vengeful Spirit) Horus even has an inner Monologue where he basicly notes the primarchs following him are all the loser Primarchs, and the good stable intelligent Primarchs whom he actually respected, had mostly stayed loyalist.

 Saber wrote:

tneva82 wrote:


Well obviously Emperor thought they were losing it because otherwise he wouldn't have done the desperate invasion of the barge. And with Horus forces outnumbering Emperor's not that surprising.

That's without reinforcements. If Emperor had known two more legions were coming he would have just sat in the palace as Horus would not have been able to break through in time.

That's the point - Horus had access to information that the Emperor did not. Because the Traitors had cut off Terra entirely from communication with the outside the defenders had no updates as to the progress of the Dark Angels and Space Wolves, while Horus had a much better idea of their approach. Horus made a gamble and the Emperor made a mistake on the Vengeful Spirit.

Also of note, when the Emperor consulted Dorn and Sanguinius about teleporting up to the Vengeful Spirit, Dorn was vehemently against it. Not only did he think it was a trap, he also thought that his forces were winning the siege (Dorn was the commanding general, as the Emperor was busy with the Golden Throne). Sanguinius, however, was in favor of attacking Horus because he was overcome by visions of his fated death. The Emperor overruled Dorn and went anyways; that's why Dorn was so distraught after the battle, because he had failed to get his master to heed reason and then he had failed again to protect the Emperor in battle. That strongly implies that Dorn, at least, was convinced that the battle was winnable while the Emperor decided otherwise.

Yeah, Dorn's 'reason'.
Dorn at the Siege of Terra: "Enemies have overrun most of the planet, decimated the defending forces and are battering down the gates to our final stronghold. Don't worry guys, we are totally going to win this!"
Dorn in the Iron Cage: "I am trapped and surrounded by enemies, my legion is virtually annihilated and we are being fired upon from all sides with only the bodies of our own dead as cover. Don't worry Roboute, I am totally going to win this!"

I really have to admire Dorn's spirit and determination, but I can't help to question the validity of his strategic assessments.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Saber wrote:

tneva82 wrote:


Well obviously Emperor thought they were losing it because otherwise he wouldn't have done the desperate invasion of the barge. And with Horus forces outnumbering Emperor's not that surprising.

That's without reinforcements. If Emperor had known two more legions were coming he would have just sat in the palace as Horus would not have been able to break through in time.

That's the point - Horus had access to information that the Emperor did not. Because the Traitors had cut off Terra entirely from communication with the outside the defenders had no updates as to the progress of the Dark Angels and Space Wolves, while Horus had a much better idea of their approach. Horus made a gamble and the Emperor made a mistake on the Vengeful Spirit.

Also of note, when the Emperor consulted Dorn and Sanguinius about teleporting up to the Vengeful Spirit, Dorn was vehemently against it. Not only did he think it was a trap, he also thought that his forces were winning the siege (Dorn was the commanding general, as the Emperor was busy with the Golden Throne). Sanguinius, however, was in favor of attacking Horus because he was overcome by visions of his fated death. The Emperor overruled Dorn and went anyways; that's why Dorn was so distraught after the battle, because he had failed to get his master to heed reason and then he had failed again to protect the Emperor in battle. That strongly implies that Dorn, at least, was convinced that the battle was winnable while the Emperor decided otherwise.

Yeah, Dorn's 'reason'.
Dorn at the Siege of Terra: "Enemies have overrun most of the planet, decimated the defending forces and are battering down the gates to our final stronghold. Don't worry guys, we are totally going to win this!"
Dorn in the Iron Cage: "I am trapped and surrounded by enemies, my legion is virtually annihilated and we are being fired upon from all sides with only the bodies of our own dead as cover. Don't worry Roboute, I am totally going to win this!"

I really have to admire Dorn's spirit and determination, but I can't help to question the validity of his strategic assessments.

Part of me insanely admires the guy, but the cynic in me wonders how he survived as long as he did.

 Aetare wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Saber wrote:

tneva82 wrote:


Well obviously Emperor thought they were losing it because otherwise he wouldn't have done the desperate invasion of the barge. And with Horus forces outnumbering Emperor's not that surprising.

That's without reinforcements. If Emperor had known two more legions were coming he would have just sat in the palace as Horus would not have been able to break through in time.

That's the point - Horus had access to information that the Emperor did not. Because the Traitors had cut off Terra entirely from communication with the outside the defenders had no updates as to the progress of the Dark Angels and Space Wolves, while Horus had a much better idea of their approach. Horus made a gamble and the Emperor made a mistake on the Vengeful Spirit.

Also of note, when the Emperor consulted Dorn and Sanguinius about teleporting up to the Vengeful Spirit, Dorn was vehemently against it. Not only did he think it was a trap, he also thought that his forces were winning the siege (Dorn was the commanding general, as the Emperor was busy with the Golden Throne). Sanguinius, however, was in favor of attacking Horus because he was overcome by visions of his fated death. The Emperor overruled Dorn and went anyways; that's why Dorn was so distraught after the battle, because he had failed to get his master to heed reason and then he had failed again to protect the Emperor in battle. That strongly implies that Dorn, at least, was convinced that the battle was winnable while the Emperor decided otherwise.

Yeah, Dorn's 'reason'.
Dorn at the Siege of Terra: "Enemies have overrun most of the planet, decimated the defending forces and are battering down the gates to our final stronghold. Don't worry guys, we are totally going to win this!"
Dorn in the Iron Cage: "I am trapped and surrounded by enemies, my legion is virtually annihilated and we are being fired upon from all sides with only the bodies of our own dead as cover. Don't worry Roboute, I am totally going to win this!"

I really have to admire Dorn's spirit and determination, but I can't help to question the validity of his strategic assessments.

Part of me insanely admires the guy, but the cynic in me wonders how he survived as long as he did.

Its the Imperial fists. They never give up without dying to man.
Aka the 3rd.... I mean how many times they been wiped out. Least twice?

Have to give them props for tenacity then; certainly masters of holding down the fort.

Horus got all the worst legions on his side while the Emprah got all the best.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Horus got all the worst legions on his side while the Emprah got all the best.

I think that could lead to some debate, but I agree that Horus might very well have been outnumbered and would require some serious tactical chops to overcome the much larger and better-equipped Imperium.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

Yeah, Dorn's 'reason'.
Dorn at the Siege of Terra: "Enemies have overrun most of the planet, decimated the defending forces and are battering down the gates to our final stronghold. Don't worry guys, we are totally going to win this!"
Dorn in the Iron Cage: "I am trapped and surrounded by enemies, my legion is virtually annihilated and we are being fired upon from all sides with only the bodies of our own dead as cover. Don't worry Roboute, I am totally going to win this!"

I really have to admire Dorn's spirit and determination, but I can't help to question the validity of his strategic assessments.

Was Dorn wrong? Was he actually losing the battle? Horus certainly thought Dorn was winning, which is why Horus gambled everything on ambushing the Emperor.

Dorn also thought going on to the Vengeful Spirit was a bad idea and tried to persuade the Emperor otherwise. Was he wrong about that too?

Dorn is kind of a dork so make fun of him all you like, but in the context of the game lore (i.e. the only information we have available to us) his was absolutely correct on both of those points.

Dorn didn't need to wipe out the traitors to "win". He only needed to hold out until the three Imperial Legions on their way arrived - and they were due within hours when Horus "invited" the Emperor ono his ship.

On the other hand, I don't think letting Horus flee (which would have been the likely outcome if the Emperor hadn't gone to face him) would have been a winning outcome for the Imperium.

It's also possible that Dorn has reasoned that there were reinforcements coming. Logically, he knew that there were several loyal legions still out there, and they would almost certainly be coming to lift the siege. So he somewhat gambled that the defenses would hold long enough for them to arrive, no need for suicidal teleport actions into an obvious trap.

 Grey Templar wrote:
It's also possible that Dorn has reasoned that there were reinforcements coming. Logically, he knew that there were several loyal legions still out there, and they would almost certainly be coming to lift the siege. So he somewhat gambled that the defenses would hold long enough for them to arrive, no need for suicidal teleport actions into an obvious trap.

Yeah, he knew if word was put that terra was under attack ad the palace under siege, then its logical that the other loyalist forces would deploy, and plan to mount a counter assault against the traitors.

I don't think we really have enough information (at least on the level of detail/new cannon of the BL Horus Heresy series) to really know if Dorn was overconfident or not. All we know, based on those books, is that from the moment Horus was appointed warmaster, the Emperor recognized Dorn as the premier siege expert of the age and set him to work building the single greatest fortress yet seen in the universe. The result of that isn't a mere palace, or even a planet, but a fortress encompassing the entire solar system; an interlocking, clockwork masterpiece that ground the traitor forces through its gears while allowing the loyalist reinforcements to sluice through.

If he was confident it was going to hold out in time for the reinforcements to arrive, even when they're battling on the gates of the palace itself, I think he'd have a reason for believing so (if only because he's ruthlessly blunt, which helped fuel Perturabo's hatred of him.)

 Aetare wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

Yeah, Dorn's 'reason'.
Dorn at the Siege of Terra: "Enemies have overrun most of the planet, decimated the defending forces and are battering down the gates to our final stronghold. Don't worry guys, we are totally going to win this!"
Dorn in the Iron Cage: "I am trapped and surrounded by enemies, my legion is virtually annihilated and we are being fired upon from all sides with only the bodies of our own dead as cover. Don't worry Roboute, I am totally going to win this!"

I really have to admire Dorn's spirit and determination, but I can't help to question the validity of his strategic assessments.

Part of me insanely admires the guy, but the cynic in me wonders how he survived as long as he did.

It served him quite well a number of times, and his composed but quietly obsessive nature is part of his charm:

"Greetings Father. I am your lost son: Rogal Dorn. In anticipation of meeting you, I have conquered this cluster and fortified it into a grand empire. No, why would I wish to keep it, or have it recognized apart? I made it in hopes it would be worthy of you! I have also build this ship, I call it the Phalanx. I hope you don't find the title too ostentatious, but my men worked really hard on it. I hope that with some refitting it can approach the no-doubt perfect standards you hold all your ships to."

Siege of the Emperors palace, From WD 261 (2001) page 17:

Conclusion: Horus needed a quick, decisive battle in which his advantage in numbers would give him victory. By fighting on Terra, the Emperor used himself as bait to draw Horus into battle. This stiffened the resolve of the loyalists and ensured that the battle would be fought in heavily fortified and urbanised terrain, well suited to defensive fighting. In this context, time was the Emperors ally and with it he won the most important victory in Humanity's history.

 Nerak wrote:
Siege of the Emperors palace, From WD 261 (2001) page 17:

Conclusion: Horus needed a quick, decisive battle in which his advantage in numbers would give him victory. By fighting on Terra, the Emperor used himself as bait to draw Horus into battle. This stiffened the resolve of the loyalists and ensured that the battle would be fought in heavily fortified and urbanised terrain, well suited to defensive fighting. In this context, time was the Emperors ally and with it he won the most important victory in Humanity's history.

Plus if he did win his quick decisive battle. Behead emperor. Take out Terra and warp beacon.

You then mop up the divided legions that remain left behind.
Horus wins critical victory.

Lastly. Horus battle vs orks where slew warboss any such reference, early adopter of terminator clad justafarian?
He favoured a decisive strike?

The favored modus operandi of the Sons of Horus and their primarch was the decapitation strike, a direct blow at the enemy's HQ designed to win the battle in a single, brutal blow. Attacking Terra and trying to kill the Emperor personally was entirely in keeping with Horus' way of war (granted, Horus' personality and favored tactics were all established after the broad outlines of the Heresy and the Siege of Terra were already written, so really the facts of the Siege is what influenced the writers' giving Horus his favored tactics and not the other way around, but there you go).

And the Emperor and Rogal Dorn knew that; they dangled the bait, set the trap and let Horus walk in to it.

That's one of the reasons the Heresy was so bloody; all sides knew how the others fought, and thought.

 Saber wrote:
The favored modus operandi of the Sons of Horus and their primarch was the decapitation strike, a direct blow at the enemy's HQ designed to win the battle in a single, brutal blow. Attacking Terra and trying to kill the Emperor personally was entirely in keeping with Horus' way of war (granted, Horus' personality and favored tactics were all established after the broad outlines of the Heresy and the Siege of Terra were already written, so really the facts of the Siege is what influenced the writers' giving Horus his favored tactics and not the other way around, but there you go).

Yeah. Thought so. I knew my fluff was not that wooly lol.
Petarbo given time could have won, he'd broken outer walls, and driven through city to the last lines of defense.

Horus probably would have wanted to lead a impressive final strike though.