The end of the Old Marines?

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**AndrewGPaul**

Look at all the "truescale" (horrible word) models that have been shown over the last few years; there's clearly demand for Space Marines that tower over other humans, so GW have addressed that demand. However, if they'd just released Dark Imperium and said "these are the new Space Marine models", there would have been a wailing and a gnashing of teeth. So they did IMO the best thing they could; introduce the new models while not invalidating the old ones.

I like the new Marines. What these would allow me to do (if I played an army that includes them) is add to my existing Ultramarines army with the new models, using them alongside my existing models. Over time, I'm sure the proportion of Primaris Marines I would be using will increase, but then that's already happened - I don't have any RTB01 plastics in my army any more.

**Tycho**

I've painted probably 75 Space Marines over the last 20 years, and then these new ones come along!

I painted 75 marines last month!

I've got a full company of Red Hunters, 2000pts (7th ed points) of DA, 2500 of BA, and 1500 in Sons of Orar. Oh the pain!

WHIle I agree that over time, the Primaris are going to replace my beloved "wrong scale" marines, for me, the bigger question is, what happens to the supporting units like Stormravens? Provided it's done slowly over time, I can live with the replacing of the old Marines. What gets me is, I don't want the entire line to be EOL'd. You can get regular Marines for pennies on the dollar, but for things like Stormravens (of which, I have 6), they're kind of an investment and I'd hate to open a Marine codex one day and not see them in there.

**grouchoben**

I've recently returned to the game after a 2 decade break, and I must admit I love the new Primaris. Two main reasons are scale and stat/fluff interaction. I want my marines to tower over scuttling lesser units. I want my marines to feel elite, tough to bring down, more potent as a unit, dangerous in CC even without a weapon, and more of a loss when they bite the dust.

Maybe I was the target market for Primaris, I don't know. But I can say that 8th has brought me back into the fold, and I'm having a grand old time of it...

**SilverAlien**

Tycho wrote:
I've painted probably 75 Space Marines over the last 20 years, and then these new ones come along!

I painted 75 marines last month! I've got a full company of Red Hunters, 2000pts (7th ed points) of DA, 2500 of BA, and 1500 in Sons of Orar. Oh the pain!

WHIle I agree that over time, the Primaris are going to replace my beloved "wrong scale" marines, for me, the bigger question is, what happens to the supporting units like Stormravens? Provided it's done slowly over time, I can live with the replacing of the old Marines. What gets me is, I don't want the entire line to be EOL'd. You can get regular Marines for pennies on the dollar, but for things like Stormravens (of which, I have 6), they're kind of an investment and I'd hate to open a Marine codex one day and not see them in there.

If they primaris do phase out old marines, it'll be gradually over time. During that same time, you can expect to see rules gradually shift, so vehicles become cross compatible with the now common primaris. That's what I assume at least.

**D4V1D0**

I wonder if the vehicles will increase in size too, or if they'll start bringing in 'Primaris Pattern' models of existing vehicles that slowly become the norm.

Bigger marines surely means bigger transports to fit them in?

**Slayer-Fan123**

Pretty sure if they were gonna be phased out, we would have a Rhino already, not some floating Razorback with 600 guns.

**jake**

I actually find the true scale part of this rumor fairly easy to believe. At this point the basic space marine line is pretty much complete. While GW can always add a few new space marine kits with each new codex, the heyday of early 3rd edition when the entire space marine line was being redone in plastic and everyone was ditching their old 2nd edition models to buy awesome new Jes Goodwin plastic models is way over. The often cited quote that plastic marines sell like crack was not much of an exaggeration. if you were playing the game at the time you'll remember the rush to buy new tactical squads, new rhinos, new land speeders, new devestators and dozens of other new versions of models that we had all had for years and years in metal.

anyway, that rush is over. Pretty much the entire marine line is available in plastic, and while marines continue to sell very well the hobby is past the point where long time gamers are trading in their old metal marines for new plastic ones. What GW will want next is for players to trade in their old plastic kits for new plastic kits. The problem is that even if they release a new version of the basic marine sprue that's superior to the old one there will be no real reason for players with older models to ditch them in favor of the new ones. Unless they change the scale.

Upscaling the basic marine kit forces everyone to go out and buy new marines. Of course, no one is actually forced, in the same way no one was forced to replace their 2nd edition metals with 3rd edition plastics. With a new upscaled tactical squad kit as the standard GW has the excuse to redo the entire space marine line, encouraging everyone to re-buy their entire collection and increasing the size of the models and the amount they can charge for them as well. This won't just affect basic marines but Blood Angels, Black Templars, Chaos Space Marines, Grey Knights, Space Wolves and Sisters of Battle.

Yes, it's a huge change, but GW likes huge changes that encourage their customers to spend huge amounts of money on new versions of kits they already own. What better place to start than a starter box? This strategy worked well in 3rd edition, introducing the plastic tactical squad and land speeder sprues. Once we had those in our hands it didn't take much to convince any of us to start a marine army.

So yes, I think larger scale marines are inevitable. maybe not in the next starter, but sometime in the next few years.

This is a quote from a post I made in 2011 in this thread: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/60/368118.page#2794735

I've been expecting this for a long time, and I know I'm not the only one.

**Just Tony**

Imperial_Wolf wrote:
Primaris will definitely phase out "regular" marines by next edition, most likely.

Three things fluff-wise that will probably make this true:

1: Many chapters have been *totally* wiped out. Gone. So right off the bat there are now lesser regular marines.

2: There are now ENTIRE chapters of primaris. Expect more primaris only chapters to keep springing up over time.

3: Regular marines can basically be "upgraded" to primaris. I suspect a good amount of chapters will at the very least get most of their marines "upgraded".

4: A lot of chapters are so battle-worn that some are barely a chapter anymore. They've lost so many marines that the primaris reinforcements they will get MIGHT make up 50% or more of the chapter.

So, yeah, at least fluff wise, over time, the regular marines will eventually be phased out in probably 3-4 years. The chapters that may initially refuse primaris *anything* may be conveniently destroyed by GW. I think its sad, but that's how it goes. The fluff will meet the business end of things.

So how many named chapters are wiped out? Who are they? Extremely curious if they have a list.

**BrianDavion**

Just Tony wrote:
Imperial_Wolf wrote:
Primaris will definitely phase out "regular" marines by next edition, most likely.

Three things fluff-wise that will probably make this true:

1: Many chapters have been *totally* wiped out. Gone. So right off the bat there are now lesser regular marines.

2: There are now ENTIRE chapters of primaris. Expect more primaris only chapters to keep springing up over time.

3: Regular marines can basically be "upgraded" to primaris. I suspect a good amount of chapters will at the very least get most of their marines "upgraded".

4: A lot of chapters are so battle-worn that some are barely a chapter anymore. They've lost so many marines that the primaris reinforcements they will get MIGHT make up 50% or more of the chapter.

So, yeah, at least fluff wise, over time, the regular marines will eventually be phased out in probably 3-4 years. The chapters that may initially refuse primaris *anything* may be conveniently destroyed by GW. I think its sad, but that's how it goes. The fluff will meet the business end of things.

So how many named chapters are wiped out? Who are they? Extremely curious if they have a list.

I'm not sure we have any named chapters wiped completely out, we have the useal "chapters that may have been wiped out" but most of those chapters have been "and may have been wiped out" longer then I've played 40k

**Iron Mike**

I'm calling it now, they will never again release another "small" size marine kit.