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 Kanluwen wrote:
Sometime down the road, I expect we'll see Chosen given a sniper weapon of some kind.

That would be pretty cool!

Now that Vindicators have dropped substantially in points and have the AoE stratagem, what about a few of them as a "sniper" unit for when the enemy bunches up too close paired with some deep strike and/or fly units for when they spread out too much?

 Mr Morden wrote:
So do:

Sisters,

Ad Mech -( and they need transports and all the cool stuff thats in 30k)

Genestealer Cults and snipers seems a fun fit.

None of these armies are Marines so are not going to get them.

..Would sisters even use them? They would seem to go against their style of warfare.

Admech has the Radium Jezzail and Arquebus for sniping.. Though seeing an Admech flyer would be cool.

Genestealer.. Can't they take Snipers by using Imperial Guard? Ditto that for flyers.

Sadly it's exactly this lack of support for chaos marines that lead me to sell my army, night lords. If they allowed "looted" imperial vehicles and made a plastic dreadclaw kit I would have kept them.

Oh well. I have Necrons and tryanids.

I always wanted more looted vehicles.
Also, I loved the idea of a tyranid bio-assassin - somewhere between a genestealer and a lictor, but with some ranged firepower.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

..Would sisters even use them? They would seem to go against their style of warfare.

If they gave the Condemnor boltgun the sniper rule that seems like it would be good and fitting. Not super long range, but it would be something.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
So do:

Sisters,

Ad Mech -( and they need transports and all the cool stuff thats in 30k)

Genestealer Cults and snipers seems a fun fit.

None of these armies are Marines so are not going to get them.

..Would sisters even use them? They would seem to go against their style of warfare.

Admech has the Radium Jezzail and Arquebus for sniping.. Though seeing an Admech flyer would be cool.

Genestealer.. Can't they take Snipers by using Imperial Guard? Ditto that for flyers.

Ordo Prononatus Sisters could be an interesting idea: Those that "lead the way" for the Imperial Creed. Think Stalker Boltguns and Demolition Charges, and general Sister ISIS.

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

..Would sisters even use them? They would seem to go against their style of warfare.

If they gave the Condemnor boltgun the sniper rule that seems like it would be good and fitting. Not super long range, but it would be something.

Actually yeah, given their ideals of dealing with Psyker's, it could be possible that we get Condemnor's that can snipe along with units that could potentially outright target Psykers regardless of how they are hiding.

 Mr Morden wrote:
So do:

Sisters,

Ad Mech -( and they need transports and all the cool stuff thats in 30k)

Genestealer Cults and snipers seems a fun fit.

None of these armies are Marines so are not going to get them.

All three can grab ratlings, the best dedicated sniper unit in the game (while admech has sniper rifles that also work as anti tank).

The best thing chaos has is renegade marauders who are terrible as far as snipers go, plus forgeworld which is an issue discussed above.

SilverAlien wrote:
The best thing chaos has is renegade marauders who are terrible as far as snipers go, plus forgeworld which is an issue discussed above.

Chaos does have two psyker powers though that can target units and deal mortal wounds. Since Characters can only not be targeted during the Shooting phase, you are more than welcome to use a Sorcerer to double cast Gift of Change and Infernal Gaze onto a character to try to murder him off the field.

I mean, yes and hypothetically we could deep strike terminators with melta guns and kill them that way as well. It'd be more likely than getting close enough to use gift of change, and warpgaze doesn't do nearly enough damage on its own.

So no, those options are terrible and anyone suggesting they can fill in for snipers should feel bad.

SilverAlien wrote:
I mean, yes and hypothetically we could deep strike terminators with melta guns and kill them that way as well. It'd be more likely than getting close enough to use gift of change, and warpgaze doesn't do nearly enough damage on its own.

So no, those options are terrible and anyone suggesting they can fill in for snipers should feel bad.

To be fair, you could say the same thing about most snipers.

Depends who you are shooting. Against the ones I actually need snipers for (commissars) sniper rifles work far better than warpgaze, and you can scale snipers if need be whereas one warpgaze a turn. Nothing is going to easily kill Robby G or even some of the tougher generic HQs I agree.

Nvs wrote:
I know I’m in the minority with this opinion, but I feel that FW shouldn’t be allowed in friendly games unless both sides agree on it. FW was originally supposed to be used for larger point games to have large, epic battles. Today FW has gotten to the point where they are just providing random units regardless if an army needs them or not just because some designer wanted to make a cool model. Unfortunately for armies like CSM they are things that fill holes in the army but for armies like SM they are just pure excess that grossly overpower the faction.

So when someone says CSM needs X and Y and the first response is always Forgeworld, the logical next question is why should I need Forgeworld to make my army work?

Yes, FW is all about big things.

No ultra-light vehicles, infantry units, whole alternate army lists, codex unit variants, etc. these do not exist.


/sarcasm

FW has the biggest, most epic-oriented things in the game, yes.
But it also has many alternatives to regular models, be it another turret for your tank, or units that preform slightly differently from what the codex can offer (like tau's alternate suits, drones, etc. most are actually light-medium scale, only a handful are above a dreadnought.)
And then there are the alternate armies, like death korps, or renegade militias-armies you just CANT play without forgeworld, because forgeworld has their models, and their rules. armies who are no better or worse from GW armies, just different.

 B Stores wrote:

KingLetterman wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:

My Noise Marines and Berzerkers did a fine job with the conscripts, mowing 2 of their squads. But these units cover so much space on the board. Seeing how it's possible to position them so that, once a couple go down, there's no way to engage the others. The following describes what I mean here. Distance between the squads is great than 24 inches.

Heldrakes lack the offensive firepower to deal with large mobs like this. We need some other flyer that can close the gap while still bringing some shooting. I own a Fire Raptor which would have been hell on the Conscripts, but did not have it for this game. Would rather see it in a standard CSM list instead of only being available to people able to pay FW prices.

Why would Chaos get ranged weapons other than the Lascannon? That really goes agaisnt the chaos norms, I can only see Iron Warriors using Ranged Weaponry to fight battles, the others use Fists&Cuffs or Mindbullets for the T Sons.

Dont worry about Guilliman though,
Most likley we will be getting a couple of Daemon Primarchs/Primachs to combat him. Most likley:
Loyalists: The Lion and Corax.....maybe Vulkan
Traitor: Mortarion "Duh", Lograr and Fulgrim

Ill be mad though if they do bring them back and make Guilliman all around better though.

Who is Lograr? ...what happened to Angron?

Also, I'd argue that chaos are the bad guys. If sniper rifles and ranged weaponry help them achieve their goal, then why not?

Lorgrar is a Daemon Primarch, he is Robot Girlymans worst enemy.....Angron is the best (albiet most reckless) fighting daemon primarchs. He kiced Russ's Wolfgluets and he retreated and "planned" to lead him into a trap. He is one of the most powerful Khornate Bloodthirsters

Automatically Appended Next Post:

KingLetterman wrote:

 B Stores wrote:

KingLetterman wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:

My Noise Marines and Berzerkers did a fine job with the conscripts, mowing 2 of their squads. But these units cover so much space on the board. Seeing how it's possible to position them so that, once a couple go down, there's no way to engage the others. The following describes what I mean here. Distance between the squads is great than 24 inches.

Heldrakes lack the offensive firepower to deal with large mobs like this. We need some other flyer that can close the gap while still bringing some shooting. I own a Fire Raptor which would have been hell on the Conscripts, but did not have it for this game. Would rather see it in a standard CSM list instead of only being available to people able to pay FW prices.

Why would Chaos get ranged weapons other than the Lascannon? That really goes agaisnt the chaos norms, I can only see Iron Warriors using Ranged Weaponry to fight battles, the others use Fists&Cuffs or Mindbullets for the T Sons.

Dont worry about Guilliman though,
Most likley we will be getting a couple of Daemon Primarchs/Primachs to combat him. Most likley:
Loyalists: The Lion and Corax.....maybe Vulkan
Traitor: Mortarion "Duh", Lograr and Fulgrim

Ill be mad though if they do bring them back and make Guilliman all around better though.

Who is Lograr? ...what happened to Angron?

Also, I'd argue that chaos are the bad guys. If sniper rifles and ranged weaponry help them achieve their goal, then why not?

Lorgrar is a Daemon Primarch, he is Robot Girlymans worst enemy.....Angron is the best (albiet most reckless) fighting daemon primarchs. He kiced Russ's Wolfgluets and he retreated and "planned" to lead him into a trap. He is one of the most powerful Khornate Bloodthirsters now.

Also, i'd argue that chaos would never use snipers as it goes agaisnt their doctrine and they are all slaves to Evil gods who gain power from face to face interaction.

Fair enough

Not sure why Chaos would need snipers. Most snipers in 40k arent too hot, and Chaos is more about butchery anyways.

Their mortal-wound-dealing psychic power is nasty anyways, and more reliable than most snipers.

 Insectum7 wrote:
Not sure why Chaos would need snipers. Most snipers in 40k arent too hot, and Chaos is more about butchery anyways.

Their mortal-wound-dealing psychic power is nasty anyways, and more reliable than most snipers.

Why would they not - as a glaaxy spannning conspiracy to destroy / absorb or just feth with reality - snipers are just one more weapon - eg I could see a Slaanesh Marine become more and more obsessed with the perfect long range kill, Sniper is a Cultist weapon not to mention all the renegade guard which are currenly only available via FW.

Ad Mech have a vast variety of flyers and void craft in the fluff as well as transports but in the game - not so much - in fact pretty much ALL imperial vehcilces and flyers should also have the Ad Mech Keyword - the few exceptions being obvious.

Both Sisters and Chaos used to have Drop pods.

The big reason for snipers is to deal with Commissars on conscript squads. Needs to be a way to get them to stop issuing orders.

Then there's Gulliman. I would like to be able to take a wound or two off him before he crashes through a line of conscripts to tear everything up.

It's very odd. Most Imperial players I know are buying tons of conscripts. I have a strong feeling they will eventually be nerfed, but they are just that good now.

With regards to flyers, maybe it's just Stormraven envy. I keep seeing lists with 3 of them and they seem pretty well armed for the cost.

I've been playing a Thousand Sons lately, aside from my first game of 8th edition (combined with an almost all AM Vehicle army), in which I got trounced, I've had a lot of luck with Thousand Sons. When I use Magnus, I make sure he moves into CC as soon as possible, and with a potential of 48" (more realistic 39") move a turn, there's no reason he can't get into combat turn 1. I also try and maneuver him so he ends up in combat with multiple units. This helps him stay in combat where he really belongs.

I also Use Rubrics a lot and they do great, All is Dust is very handy to have. I also use a squad of Scarab Terminators so I can drop them in behind the enemy, this gives me a chance at back field units, and they almost always end up getting my the Line Breaker VP since they don't die easy. With luck, my Scarab Terminators can get in range of Magnus' Lord of the Legion buff, so they will put out a ton of hits a turn.

While I do agree that it would be nice if we had snipers, there are ways around it. As for fliers, there's enough to do what needs to be done. I've been running my Heldrake with flamer (mostly because it's an awesome conversion), and it does great. I get it in close and then get it CC with an enemy Fly unit. Most armies have something that can Fly, so that ends up being my target.