Call me crazy.... But who is ready for the 8th ed Faction tier conversation!?

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**BoomWolf**

Mr Morden wrote:
BoomWolf wrote:
How on earth do you have a "tier list" when there is just ONE GODAMN CODEX!?

The indcies are NOT codcies, they are NOT relevant to any tier list that would come up because as we've seen-they are incomplete and missing army-wide rules, beyond the fact "chapter tactics" are powerful enough to make or break armies.

er because Codex Blessed play against Indices armies so of course you compare them.

If the Codex Blessed are just better then thats a problem with the codex system.

Or, and bear with me here because this might sound crazy, THE REST OF THE CODCIES ARE NOT OUT YET.

Jesus we know of 2 more coming this month, a forth about two weeks later and there should be at least 10 total by the end of the year.

**Sal4m4nd3r**

Everybody in here complaining about orks can't beat this and can't deal with armor..

All the while last night I was literally one dice roll away from tabling a three knight list with my orks. Had I made that last wound roll with my last meganob with kill saws the last of three knights would have been destroyed. Oh and that's with ghazzy getting destroyed top of turn one.

Orks are my favorite army. Ork players are my least favorite player base. You all complain way to much.

**Arandmoor**

fe40k wrote:

Edit: But, this thread isn't for my ramblings on my thoughts of Orks and balance. I got my answer to "like what?", which was simply - Boyz. I just want to be able to enjoy losing again; but it's hard when you look through the other factions and see just how crazy their rules, firepower, and options are, in every scenario. There's a difference between an uphill battle when you're slightly outmatched, and having the entire design team continue to ignore your very existence (though to be fair, Xenos has always been worse than anything Imperial, Loyalist or Traitor; if it were any other way, it wouldn't be 40k).

Yeah. I'm really, really, really hoping that the 8th ed ork codex is an event. If the xenos armies end up with just a single book each only for GW to announce IG regimental codicies, I'll be straight-up done with this game.

On the bright side, DG and TS have never had their own codicies before, so there's hope. There's hope for Orks. Hope for T'au. Hope for Necrons and 'nids and Eldar.

There's a LOT of room in 40k for army expansion. I only hope that GW understands that great heroes need even better villains.

**pismakron**

As an Orks player I'd say Orks are a mid-tier army. There are some things that Orks simply cannot deal with (flyers with Hard to Hit and Airborne we can do nothing about), but there is also a number of things that Orks are better at dealing with than most factions, Conscript spam is one thing.

When playing Maelstrom I think Orks are above average, when playing Eternal War we are below average.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
1) Guard
2) Smurfs
3) Daemons
4) Chaos smurfs
5) Harlequins
6) GSC
7) Ynnari
8) Tyranids
9) Orks
10) Tau
11) Dark Eldar
12) Necrons
13) Craftworld Eldar
14) Ad Mech
15) Knights

**GreaterGood?**

Why is everyonr rating daemons so highly? what am I missing?

**Klowny**

DarknessEternal wrote:
Klowny wrote:
FLG have a meta post up, has the W/L ratios etc. Interesting read.

Knights are the strongest faction by far, followed by Chaos.

Necrons are the worst major faction, only Deathwatch and Deathguard have worse W/L ratios. Pretty much follows what is already the forum's here (in regards to the worst)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ct-6BTRhNXx46dCxN9f7YxaARRhkUp5Hw0Rypcv3JHs/edit#gid=1657120584

Thats the link.

Asuryani isn't even on that list.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

oddworx wrote:

3. Asuryani. They will always have Eldar in the top 3 IMDAO.

Top Asuryani was 56th at BAO, so no. Worse than Necrons and Deathwatch.

They actually are, just need 2 more copmetitions to be placed in the >10 tournament part. Currently sitting on a 51/40/7 w/l/d%, so doing much better than necrons.

That list is only for ITC events, so they play a combination of mission styles.

**Voss**

BoomWolf wrote:
Mr Morden wrote:
BoomWolf wrote:
How on earth do you have a "tier list" when there is just ONE GODAMN CODEX!?

The indcies are NOT codcies, they are NOT relevant to any tier list that would come up because as we've seen-they are incomplete and missing army-wide rules, beyond the fact "chapter tactics" are powerful enough to make or break armies.

er because Codex Blessed play against Indices armies so of course you compare them.

If the Codex Blessed are just better then thats a problem with the codex system.

Or, and bear with me here because this might sound crazy, THE REST OF THE CODCIES ARE NOT OUT YET.

Jesus we know of 2 more coming this month, a forth about two weeks later and there should be at least 10 total by the end of the year.

And roughly half are going to be yet more subfactions split off from existing armies (while equal sub-factions are just part of the main army: see DG & TS vs. WE and EC).
But there isn't any reason not to compare the armies as they are.

**oddworx**

SemperMortis wrote:
oddworx wrote:
Yaaaaaa.. So you really think I should do an Ork list review? Ok, no problem. I will just ask my play for paint friend who went 4-1-1 at BAO to do it. Again, I dont have to know know the nuances of your army. That's your job. Give me a day and I will ask him how to tell you how to run your army.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
aaaaaaand he is quiet. Now you can safely state your opinions!

So you have 1 friend who did well with orkz and that out balances everyone else who has a different opinion? Have you ever heard the term Anecdotal?

Orkz have only a handful of units worth taking. Ghaz, Warboss, Weirdboy, Boyz, Stormboyz. That is about it.

ALL ork walkers are garbage and not worth taking, which is really really sad for me because I own 15 of them.
ALL Ork transports are garbage. Trukk is about 50% over priced and the Wagon is too expensive and fragile. None of its weapons are worth taking except the deff Rolla.

ALL Ork shooting is garbage. Mek Gunz went up in price dramatically, lost durability and lost dakka. Big Gunz are in the same boat. Shoota boyz got cheaper but they aren't any better (My opinion they are worse) then regular boyz. Flashgitz are still over priced, lack range, lack durability and lack any kind of synergy with the rest of the Ork list. Lootas are over priced and extremely fragile, they basically require a Trukk to be useful so tack on another 80pts to their cost. Tank bustas are only useful because we lack any kind of ranged support to deal with vehicles. They are over priced, no durability and again, require a trukk to function.

Our Fast attack slot is a joke. Besides Stormboyz everything else in the index could be deleted which is again a travesty because I have 1 Dakkajet, 6 Deff Koptas and 36 Warbikers.

Kommandos are a nice distraction unit but they again are over priced, lack durability and synergy with the rest of the list. Worse, since Burnas are functionally useless in the shooting phase they are become over priced Power Swords.

Meganobz are ridiculously over priced and have no purpose anymore. unless you pay out the nose for KillSaws they cant even do damage to a vehicle reliably. And against a horde of infantry they get slaughtered. Vs MEQs they do alright but Boyz are significantly better. They have no Invuln save and even with 3 wounds they die ridiculously quick.

I mean, I am glad your one friend did well in the tournament but that doesn't change the fact that realistically theres only a couple of units in the index worth taking in a competitive list and those units can not handle enemies who are anti-horde.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
to get on point I would say Xenomancer had it right

1. IG
2. Daemons
3. Harlequins
4. Ynnari
5. Space marines
6. Dark Eldar
7. Tau
8. Choas
8. Ad MEch
9. Necrons
10. Tyranids
11. Orks

Ok, fine Orks suck. Sorry you guys are being so persecuted.....

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sal4m4nd3r wrote:
Everybody in here complaining about orks can't beat this and can't deal with armor..

All the while last night I was literally one dice roll away from tabling a three knight list with my orks. Had I made that last wound roll with my last meganob with kill saws the last of three knights would have been destroyed. Oh and that's with ghazzy getting destroyed top of turn one.

Orks are my favorite army. Ork players are my least favorite player base. You all complain way to much.

Ha! I like Ork players as a species. Generally....... But that's just an anecdotal l opinion.

**GAdvance**

pismakron wrote:
As an Orks player I'd say Orks are a mid-tier army. There are some things that Orks simply cannot deal with (flyers with Hard to Hit and Airborne we can do nothing about), but there is also a number of things that Orks are better at dealing with than most factions, Conscript spam is one thing.

When playing Maelstrom I think Orks are above average, when playing Eternal War we are below average.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
1) Guard
2) Smurfs
3) Daemons
4) Chaos smurfs
5) Harlequins
6) GSC
7) Ynnari
8) Tyranids
9) Orks
10) Tau
11) Dark Eldar
12) Necrons
13) Craftworld Eldar
14) Ad Mech
15) Knights

Forgive me, but can't you use stormboys with a nob with pklaw to utterly ruin flyers?

**SemperMortis**

GAdvance wrote:
pismakron wrote:
As an Orks player I'd say Orks are a mid-tier army. There are some things that Orks simply cannot deal with (flyers with Hard to Hit and Airborne we can do nothing about), but there is also a number of things that Orks are better at dealing with than most factions, Conscript spam is one thing.

When playing Maelstrom I think Orks are above average, when playing Eternal War we are below average.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
1) Guard
2) Smurfs
3) Daemons
4) Chaos smurfs
5) Harlequins
6) GSC
7) Ynnari
8) Tyranids
9) Orks
10) Tau
11) Dark Eldar
12) Necrons
13) Craftworld Eldar
14) Ad Mech
15) Knights

Forgive me, but can't you use stormboys with a nob with pklaw to utterly ruin flyers?

no. 29 Stormboyz have 3 attacks each so 87 attacks, hitting on 3s so 58 hits, wounding on 5s so about 19 wounds Vs a 3+ save thats 6 wounds. The nob gets 3 attacks hitting on 4s so about 1.5 hits, wounding on 3s so lets say 1 wound and they get a save so lets say 2 damage goes through for fun. So you have invested 265pts in a stormboyz unit that managed 8 wounds. And that of course is saying the flyer didn't decimate the Stormboyz already. A Stormraven for example can wipe out about 1/2 a 30 man unit of stormboyz a turn, at 12inches even more so.

**NenkotaMoon**

Meat loaf sandwich is feeling pretty top tier right now, but a turkey club is a classic, though a a good ol' steak and cheese can give em all a run for their money in my list..... am I using this thread correctly.

**Talamare**

Talamare wrote:

Imperium 10
Chaos 7
Tyranids 5
Eldar 4.5
Tau 4
Orks 3.5
Necrons 3

I showed my irl friend this thread, he said that Chaos isn't as good as I said they were

Imperium 10
Chaos 5
Tyranids 3.5
Eldar 3
Tau 2.5
Orks 2
Necrons 1.5

**oddworx**

NenkotaMoon wrote:
Meat loaf sandwich is feeling pretty top tier right now, but a turkey club is a classic, though a a good ol' steak and cheese can give em all a run for their money in my list..... am I using this thread correctly.

Duuude. Do you even eat meatloaf sandwiches? Obviously you haven't done your hard homework. The Rueben is crazy op right now and should be nerfed. Ugh!

**NenkotaMoon**

*Pulls out "PUSH BLT FOR WRESTLMANIA" sign .