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The two extra guys are used to model ablative armor on the leman russ.

 argonak wrote:

 ChargerIIC wrote:
Tyranids seems terrible. The gargoyles are a niche unit so I'm not certain anyone would feel like they were getting a savings out of the box.

The Astra Militarum is a close second. You can deploy the full number of infantry models *or* you can deploy the lascannon, but not both. It's annoying, but it's hard to complain about it coming with a full Leman Russ. That tank alone makes the box a great idea.

Huh, I just assumed looking at the AM box it would include one HWT sprue and two normal IG squad sprues, that's not the case?

Yes - it contains 10 infantrymen and 1 HWT(as well as a prefectus commissar). In 7th edition it had a 'special' formation that let you take all the models as thier own unit, but in 8th edition you can either have 10 infantrymen or 8 infantrymen and the HW team. There is no legal way to deploy the contents of the box. The box was my first W40k purchase and it was frustarating when I realized that HW teams are sold in sets of 3 and only come in sets of 3. The only way the HW team ever sees use is as a replacement for a pair of regular or vet troopers in a regular or command squad. It's not the end of the world, but it is pretty annoying.

I think it's a side effect of a problem we have in AM. The faction isn't really meant to stand on it's own as most of it's desired support models are either part of entire units (like command squads) or belong to a separate factions (tech-priests, preachers, etc.). The very few single model options we have are almost all named except for the commisars.

 Rolsheen wrote:
I think any Start Collecting that you can't make a Patrol detachment is kind of missing the point of it's existence.

I think that right there is the real factor of a Starting box is good or not.

Eldar starter is the worst. Five models and no infantry. Serpent, Windriders and Guardians, or Serpent, Farseer, Guardians would have been better. Even if people hate Guardians.

For a Eldar Start Collecting I think Dire Avengers could be much better. Not only because at least they have nice models but... ok. Thats the only reason, guardians are fugly.

 Galas wrote:
For a Eldar Start Collecting I think Dire Avengers could be much better. Not only because at least they have nice models but... ok. Thats the only reason, guardians are fugly.

Eh, I love the Guardian look. But I was thinking more about model count and diversity. The Guardians would have the Support Weapon, which is a cool model plus the ten troops. Avengers would probably just be five, so the model count would go from 5 to 7 instead of 5 to 13

I think the Tau one is actual one of the better Start Collecting boxes in my opinion, a lot of variety.

As for what is the worse, I would say the Eldar one. Seriously only 4 MODELS! I mean seriously every other army has a decent amount of figures that include some infantry, HQ, and Vehicles, heck their BDSM obsessed cousins (Dark Eldar) have about 15 models in their star collecting set.

Normally model count shouldnt matter, but for a start collect box, new players should be more models.

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Galas wrote:
For a Eldar Start Collecting I think Dire Avengers could be much better. Not only because at least they have nice models but... ok. Thats the only reason, guardians are fugly.

Eh, I love the Guardian look. But I was thinking more about model count and diversity. The Guardians would have the Support Weapon, which is a cool model plus the ten troops. Avengers would probably just be five, so the model count would go from 5 to 7 instead of 5 to 13

I was thinking in 10 dire avengers, 1 plastic HQ and a tank/transport, like the Tempestus Scions one. And Guardians are cool looking but the actual model is very old and... it doesn't look as good anymore.

Sisters of Battle, because they don't have one and everything is more expensive than ever.

Compared to that every start collecting box is amazing

 Haravikk wrote:
Sisters of Battle, because they don't have one and everything is more expensive than ever.

Compared to that every start collecting box is amazing

lol so true.... so true...

It's not 40k, but the Stormcast Eternals box is worth a mention. It comes with models directly from the starter set, which is bad, because the fact it came out so late, the majority who wanted Stormcasts would have gotten the starter set.
To make matters worse, it only comes with two paladins... that's not even a full unit, and you can only use it out of the box in its own scroll battalion.
That's not even the worse part though. The worst part is that one of those goddamn paladins are an alpha. They're the same two models that are in the goddamn easy to build set, and you won't feel easy using dudes who look Just like your alpha as goddamn generic dudes unless you do some converting. If the two retributers were normal guys, you can do an open game and say they're the Lord's bodyguards or something. If you want to do that though, you're gonna have to explain why one guy has alpha icons and is so damn decorated compared to the other.
If you want a quick unit of 5 retributers, your best to not get the easy to build set, because if you do you'll have only one guy in the unit who's not an identical twin... and it won't be the alpha...

**Disregard this** If you really want am answer though, it's gotta be the Imperial Guard. It's a $45 saving here, which isn't bad, but you don't even get a battleforged army anymore.

Actually, come to think of it, you can't build a battleforged army from most of them anymore, so I take that back. All of them are bad, except the Tempestus box

EDIT: I just remembered Patrol Detachments require only one troops choice. So used to two, I totally didn't take it in.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
After second though, I'd say SM has the worst box. NO PRIMARIS. I'm not talking fluff, but the models are just too good for me to ever want to think about an old marine start collecting

The Tau one model wise fantastic. Effectiveness is a little lower I would say so-so.

The Eldar one was terrible. However it has been sold out online and no longer available on the GW webstore (UK and EU at least still up on US last time I checked) for over a month. As it no longer contains troops and was regarded as terrible when it came out I think they are going to bring a new one out with the new codex coming soon.

If they do indeed bring out a new one I am hoping for Guardians or Dire Avengers, Serpent for vehicle and maybe they will bring out a plastic foot Warlock/Spiritseer dual kit which would then go very nicely with the other choices.

(If the kit contained that I would buy at least 3 to start with followed by another 3 because I have no Serpents and would want a load of plastic Warlocks/Spiritseers and more Guardians and Dire Avengers I would be happy for especially with a big saving.)

The Tempestus one is only "good" because it's base components are overpriced. If a Taurox costs the same as a Chimera and Stormtroopers came 50 bucks for 10 (like the old metal kasrkins) then the box would be even worse value than the Space Marine box.

The Tempestus Box isn't so much as "good value" as "fixes the pricing issue of the models.

Doing math, the worst start collecting box value wise is necro so, the best being skitarii in terms of pure male hey saved.

lliu wrote:
Doing math, the worst start collecting box value wise is necro so, the best being skitarii in terms of pure male hey saved.

Thanks for the math.

Well for game play strength or for fun. It will be different for different reason

 ChargerIIC wrote:

 argonak wrote:

 ChargerIIC wrote:
Tyranids seems terrible. The gargoyles are a niche unit so I'm not certain anyone would feel like they were getting a savings out of the box.

The Astra Militarum is a close second. You can deploy the full number of infantry models *or* you can deploy the lascannon, but not both. It's annoying, but it's hard to complain about it coming with a full Leman Russ. That tank alone makes the box a great idea.

Huh, I just assumed looking at the AM box it would include one HWT sprue and two normal IG squad sprues, that's not the case?

Yes - it contains 10 infantrymen and 1 HWT(as well as a prefectus commissar). In 7th edition it had a 'special' formation that let you take all the models as thier own unit, but in 8th edition you can either have 10 infantrymen or 8 infantrymen and the HW team. There is no legal way to deploy the contents of the box. The box was my first W40k purchase and it was frustarating when I realized that HW teams are sold in sets of 3 and only come in sets of 3. The only way the HW team ever sees use is as a replacement for a pair of regular or vet troopers in a regular or command squad. It's not the end of the world, but it is pretty annoying.

I think it's a side effect of a problem we have in AM. The faction isn't really meant to stand on it's own as most of it's desired support models are either part of entire units (like command squads) or belong to a separate factions (tech-priests, preachers, etc.). The very few single model options we have are almost all named except for the commisars.

Man, I'd see that as a bonus rather than a problem, giving you the option. I was wondering about that when I've considered the box. So far I've just been buying straight command squads and normal squads.

I feel that command squad support units are largely worthless anyway for their special unit types (not counting special weapons, which are awesome!). Bringing medics or flags on a 4 guardsmen special unit just seems like a recipe to have it deleted. I wish they'd move medics and flags over as options to normal units. I might bring them then.

The old Revenwing boxset was so good, land speeder, attack bike and six bikers and the upgrade set, sucks so hard it gone.

It was even better when it first came out (before the price hikes).

I remember getting one at 90 CAD; that's basically buying two boxes of vanilla bikers and getting the upgrade sprues, attack bike and land speeder for free.

 Galas wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Galas wrote:
For a Eldar Start Collecting I think Dire Avengers could be much better. Not only because at least they have nice models but... ok. Thats the only reason, guardians are fugly.

Eh, I love the Guardian look. But I was thinking more about model count and diversity. The Guardians would have the Support Weapon, which is a cool model plus the ten troops. Avengers would probably just be five, so the model count would go from 5 to 7 instead of 5 to 13

I was thinking in 10 dire avengers, 1 plastic HQ and a tank/transport, like the Tempestus Scions one. And Guardians are cool looking but the actual model is very old and... it doesn't look as good anymore.

That'd be cool, I just cant expect GW to provide two sets of Avengers plus the HQ and tank for the starter price point.

I love the Guardians, simple and to the point. Despite newer kits being technically more sophisticated, I find a lot of them too flourished for me. Matter of taste for sure though, and some kits come out better than others. I prefer the older Fire Dragons and Jetbikes, but love the new War Walkers. Avengers are solid too, and look great.

Well the Militarium Tempestus box is still a thing, and Scions is at a similar pricepoint per model to Dire Avengers (despite Scions having so many more options).

I can see 1 Autarch + 2 Dire Avenger Squads + Wave Serpent as a new Start Collecting! set, although much more likely they'll do something like 1 Farseer, 1 Guardian Squad and 1 Wraithlord.

So far all they're doing is changing the packaging for the Start Collecting boxes, so if they're not available, they're just getting a new cardboard box to go in...

So, lets settle it by tiers?
Some tiers may be wrong here, because I assume all units are "worth getting at least once", any kit that contains models who are NOT worth getting one of, will drop at least one tier.

Tier 1-makes a patrol, good savings,worth getting multiples.
Skitarii-dear god, even if you don't care for the additional magus, the infantry are great, the crawler is great, the discount is great. you can get 3 of these easy, maybe more.
Space Wolves-captain can be easily used as fancy Sargents, troopers are decent and you'll probably need more than one squad, thunderwolves are awesome.
Nurgle Daemons-can't say how good the units are, but all seems like things you can pile up without worries, has some big saving, overall great.
Khorne Daemons-saved by the multikit nature of the throne/cannon, without it would be be tier 2.
Dark Eldar-additional archon is meh, but everything else is solid gold.


Tier2-makes a patrol, contains some savings even after discounting "surly non-repeat" models (like most HQs), might be worth repeating.
Astra Militarum-the only nonrepeat model is the commissar (you don't need many of), and you CAN make a patrol with minimal conversion work (make own of the "spare" troopers into a company commander), only worthy to repreat if you want multiple russ though.
Militarum Tempestus-same as AM, you don't need many commissars, but otherwise decent.
Deathwatch-you probably don't care for added captains, and dreads lose value quick, but the raw costs of kill teams makes this worthwhile, even if you just ebay the dread.


Tier 3-makes a patrol, decent starting point but you probably won't want to get multiples.
Space Marines-how many TeQ HQs and dreads you need?
Blood Angels-how many TeQ HQs and baal predators do you need?
Chaos Space Marine-how many TeQ HQs and...pattern much?
Tau-no need for second ethereal, and while the units are iconic, you usually don't need a fire warrior horde, and crisis suits are just too darn expensive pointwise to have multiple squads most of the time. a shame, because the saving are amazing.
Necron-you'll probably want to horde up on warriors, and scarabs never hurt, but the overlord and stalker not so much. one is probably enough. two at most.
Orks-in theory can't make a partrol, but its very easy to make a warboss out of one of the nobs, and then use the "11th model mininob" of the boys set as the fifth nob squad member. not quite as clean, but works. you would'nt want multiples though, how many foot nobs, deffdreads and painboys you need?
Tyranids-technically makes a force, but a weird one. none of the units is something you'd want to have too many of usually too. its good to have one set, can't see multiples being of use. too bad the swarm set is gone.
Slannesh Daemons-great saving, but mostly on top of the exalted chariot, and do you REALLY need two of these ever?


Tier 4-Cannot make a patrol to begin with.
Eldar-can't make a patrol, you gonna have to get more stuff to get actually started. especailly considering the problem is lack of troops.


Tier 0-holy hell this is worth getting multilpes even if you don't want some models, I invented this catagory only later when I realized tier 1 isn't good enough.
DAEMONS OF TZEENTCH-4 units. take out any one of them, even the more expensive burning chariot, and it STILL has a discount, but not a single model is one that you can't enjoy repeats of. the HQ is a HS dual kit, so it's not wasted (and to make it better,for each varaint, you can make a different smaller extra HQ from spare parts), you get a mix of troops, elites and fast-so you spread between slot types comfortably. if you want ANY TWO of the four kits involved, you can get this, ebay the others at half price, and come with a profit compared to getting the kits seperate



Being the only true tier 4 "cant even build a patrol even with conversion works", I'd say its safe to say the eldar starter is the worst?
Marines don't fare much better, and neither most xenos, though at some cases its internal issues (like tau being just washy right now. when crisis where decently priced, that kit was tier 1)
Daemons seems to have the best deal. Slannesh is tier 3, but khorne and nurgle tier 1, and tzeentch invents tier 0 to itself.

Naturally, "tier 5" are the biggest losers-armies that don't even have a kit. (GK, sisters, DA, TS. DG and primaris have the starters, so they are fine without a getting started kit.)

Some of them do need a reworking for 8th edition.

Eldar is probably the most glaring instance - it isn't a legitimate patrol. It used to be a really good set in 7th. However, the models included are all excellent so at least it has that going for it.

Guard's doesn't work as listed above.

The best are clearly Ad Mech, Dark Eldar, Scions and Tau. They contain models that you will pretty much always be using that are iconic to that race. Tau in particular is a bargain.

Seeing as "Start Collecting!" really ought to be common modes that can serve as the basis for basically any army, boxes like Space Marines and Blood Angels, in my eyes, have the right idea. Not super competitive, I'll admit, but something basic, an HQ, and a special shiny for new players to get used to the game, and vets to add to a force economically. The eldar box fails miserably at that, so is my choice for worst.

CassianSol wrote:

Some of them do need a reworking for 8th edition.

Eldar is probably the most glaring instance - it isn't a legitimate patrol. It used to be a really good set in 7th. However, the models included are all excellent so at least it has that going for it.

Guard's doesn't work as listed above.

The best are clearly Ad Mech, Dark Eldar, Scions and Tau. They contain models that you will pretty much always be using that are iconic to that race. Tau in particular is a bargain.

As said before, guard is easy to fix with simple in-the-box conversion to get a company commander. so for starter purposes, it requires more veteran guilding-but it works.

And tau, the crsis suits are just not something you can have as a core of your army any more. they are too "big" per model to make multiple squads a real option, making the value drop fast after the first, and a third is completely out of the question. a team of 3 crisis easily clocks at over 250 points.
You probably don't want more than a single kit these days.

Admech and DE are indeed great, tzeentch is the outright best by far for going multiples.

@BoomWolf saw you say addition archon is meh... this there are "start collections" you silly they dont have an Archon yet

Sister's of Battle have the worst one.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
@BoomWolf saw you say addition archon is meh... this there are "start collections" you silly they dont have an Archon yet

Judging the value of the set is not actually the value of your first set, but if its a good idea to get a second, or even more.

Everything up to tier 3 is good enough as a starting place, but tier 2 you can get away with 2, maybe 3 to build up your armies, and tier 1 getting 3 isn't even odd and more is plausible-so in DE case, getting 3 sets nets 2 completely spare archons.

Then there is tier 0 tzeentch daemons, where you can do perfectly fine forever without ever buying anything except the starter over and over.