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 Thorax Abdomen wrote:

 troa wrote:
Personal use tends to be a fallacy that people made up to make themselves feel better, mostly used for video games. Yes, it's illegal, regardless of whether you get caught and face a suit or not.

Can you cite some case law (or something to that effect)? I'm pretty sure you could make physical castings of a game disc all day long without breaking any laws.

Again, due to legal reasons, we do not like discussing the morality or legalities of recasts here, and let's just leave it at that before the mods have to be called in.

"due to legal reasons?" There's nothing illegal about discussing the legality of something. That's a really odd sentiment.

But go ahead and tell on people to the teacher if you find it necessary.

Oh noes! Anything but that! I'll never speak of it again, promise mister!

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
Again, due to legal reasons, we do not like discussing the morality or legalities of recasts here, and let's just leave it at that before the mods have to be called in.

The rules only prohibit the promotion of recasting, not the discussion of it entirely. We can talk about the concept of legality as long as it doesn't stray into promotion. A fine line, to be sure, but not a blanket ban.

Relevant rules post.

As to legality, it really depends on your jurisdiction. The reason that "personal use" get's discussed is because once money changes hands a lot more laws become relevant.

Trickstick wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
Again, due to legal reasons, we do not like discussing the morality or legalities of recasts here, and let's just leave it at that before the mods have to be called in.

The rules only prohibit the promotion of recasting, not the discussion of it entirely. We can talk about the concept of legality as long as it doesn't stray into promotion. A fine line, to be sure, but not a blanket ban.

Relevant rules post.

As to legality, it really depends on your jurisdiction. The reason that "personal use" get's discussed is because once money changes hands a lot more laws become relevant.

It's because these generally devolve into people shouting at each other and bringing up recasting sites and whatnot. Like I said, it's a grey area and draws unwanted attention from GW, as even the discussion of personal use can be seen as promoting recasting (especially since, as discussed, this differs depending on jurisdiction and Dakka spans the entire world). Not to mention we've had several incidents in the past where people asked about recasts ostensibly for personal reasons, only to toe the line until the mods came in. It's overall better to not discuss it at all to avoid getting wrangled with GW.

Purifier wrote:"due to legal reasons?" There's nothing illegal about discussing the legality of something. That's a really odd sentiment.

But go ahead and tell on people to the teacher if you find it necessary.

If you have a bone to pick with me, I've already sent a PM on that line of discussion (which you have not responded to at all as of this writing). Again, that little yellow button exists if you think I've done something wrong.

 lolman1c wrote:
So my friend was talking to me about his IG army and how in the new codex it suggests ways you can create some regiments out of gw peices. He was pretty excited for this as he hates having the basic few models as guardsmen. However, he soon worked out it could cost upwards of £50-100 just for one 10 man squad?! Does GW really expect us to buy this stuff? Or do they expect us to already have the bits or ask for them from other players? (Because the avarge players doesn't play that many factions at once and some of these bits are needed to complete a model so i doubt people will just give them up) Even If you went to alternative bits companies their stocks are random and could take you many many months to create that dream regiment of yours! So really gw has just wasted their time with what was probably a genuine attempt to encourage customisable units but ended up looking, to me and my friend, like an old GW cash grab attempt from players who spend more money on 40k than I earn a year.

Yes, they expect people to do it. People pay that much for FW infantry squads already. See £35 for a 5-man space marine squad, £43 (plus weapon upgrades) for a DKoK infantry squad, etc. Obviously some people aren't going to be willing to pay that much, but GW does have a target market in mind.

Why didn't GW just bring out a box of bits ready for you to make your own gaurds using their suggestions?

Because that would be pointless. The whole idea with their suggestions is that they're suggestions, meant to be used for inspiration, not a single standardized template to follow. You're supposed to come up with your own ideas, and no single box of bits is going to cover that range of creativity.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

If you have a bone to pick with me, I've already sent a PM on that line of discussion (which you have not responded to at all as of this writing). Again, that little yellow button exists if you think I've done something wrong.

I don't think you've done anything wrong, and I have no bone to pick with you. I'm responding specifically to your post being A) nonsensical and B) a ridiculous threat that you'll "tell on people." Nothing you've ever said before has any influence on my reply to you, I find your post preposterous completely on its own merit.

Rule Number 2 = Stay On Topic

Thanks!

Honestly just was curious/pedantic. You couldn't pay me to muck around in resin chemicals lol.

 Manchu wrote:
Rule Number 2 = Stay On Topic

Thanks!

Is the legality of self-recasts in order to convert IG models on or off topic, and is it allowed on the forum? Honest question, not trying to be funny, and I feel like it pertains to the thread and the people participating.

 Peregrine wrote:
Yes, they expect people to do it. People pay that much for FW infantry squads already. See £35 for a 5-man space marine squad, £43 (plus weapon upgrades) for a DKoK infantry squad, etc. Obviously some people aren't going to be willing to pay that much, but GW does have a target market in mind.

The one that gets me is trying to build a Sisters army, something I looked into a while back. £50 for a squad of 10. Plus another £6-£9 to add the weapon you want, as melta/stormbolter is an odd combination. How about £65 for a Seraphim squad?

 Purifier wrote:
Is the legality of self-recasts in order to convert IG models on or off topic, and is it allowed on the forum? Honest question, not trying to be funny, and I feel like it pertains to the thread and the people participating.

I assume it is more devolving into an argument about the rules which is off topic.

Buy from China. Buy from eBay. Buy from spellcrow. Trade with friends. Order from kromlech. Why bother with gw anymore? Honestly? What have they ever done for you? Yeah, like coke or Pepsi cola, how has gw ever put you and your health and enjoyment ahead of their money? Why do you struggle with giving them more? Brand loyalty is a bugger. Drink water. Screw gw and their enticements without end.

 Purifier wrote:
Is the legality of self-recasts in order to convert IG models on or off topic

Recasting is largely off topic in this thread. The legality of recasting is certainly off topic.

 Purifier wrote:
and is it allowed on the forum?

This is highly contextual. Generally speaking, we have no interest in allowing people to use Dakka Dakka as a platform for justifying, encouraging, or enabling illegal acts.

 Trickstick wrote:
I assume it is more devolving into an argument about the rules which is off topic.

A reasonable conclusion.

That is a pretty good and clear answer.

 Trickstick wrote:

The rules only prohibit the promotion of recasting, not the discussion of it entirely. We can talk about the concept of legality as long as it doesn't stray into promotion. A fine line, to be sure, but not a blanket ban.

Relevant rules post.

The rules post actually confused me a little:

 yakface wrote:

A: The owners of this site do not personally believe that recasting copyrighted models without the copyright holder’s consent (henceforth referred to as 'unauthorized recasting') to be an unacceptable practice. Therefore, as both legal protection for the site and also due to that personal preference, it is imperative that Dakka not be used as a means to promote the concept, process and/or sale of unauthorized recasts, and any forum threads, articles and/or gallery pictures breaking this guideline may be locked or removed without warning.

If you don't believe something to be unacceptable, isn't that another way of saying that you think it's acceptable?

I ask because it just seems to contradict the next sentence - which appears to imply the exact opposite (that they personally believe it to be unacceptable).

Sorry for bringing this up again, but since the rule post was linked I thought I might as well mention it.

Back to the discussion at hand. Some conversions might be easy enough to do without spending a ridiculous amount of money if you already bought the sets for some other reason and have leftover bitz. I bet every AdMech player probably has a ton of leftover Vanguard heads that could be used with standard Neophyte or cadian bodies for some of the conversions.

Back in the Black Gobbo era, the web team had a fabled "bitz bin" (or something along those lines) where it was basically like the money bin of scrooge mcduck, and they could basically create anything out of it. Many people I knew were jelly of that since the estimated cost of someone assembling one of their own was several thousands.

Yeah unless you score a bunch of bits on the cheap from resellers, converting enitre armies is never going to be cheap, I spent about 120$ to make a 10 men squad of stormtroopers, not something I'll do again, no matter how awesome I think they look.

This is why I started collecting multiple armies; you never know when having exactly 10 sets of extra heads on hand could come in handy.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
I would rather talk about the kitbashing opportunities presented to us here. Skitarii Vanguard heads on Scion armoured torsos for heavy infantry, Scion heads on GS cult bodies for light infantry (I'm quite interested in that myself).

I'm currently looking at a small guard force to supplement my battle sisters, with the fluff in my head being they're trying to overthrow their planetary Governor who has broken faith with the Imperium after they're cut off by the great rift.

Currently I'm looking or options to kill tough elite infantry, as the Sisters have tanks and light infantry covered fairly handily, but it would be fun to rotate parts around between guard, GSC and scions. My infantry squads/conscripts could be mine workers with hastily scavenged lasguns and scions could be hybridized between guard and scion parts to look more like the armour from Red Spectacles and Jin Roh.

I had a similar experience with the kitbash rough riders I made. Two boxes of cold one knights and plenty of Cadian plastics wasn't too bad, but the hard part was ten pairs of the tank commander legs:



They needed splitting down the middle and a bit of work to make stirrups and stuff but worked great. If I hadn't of had enough old russ kits and a gift of a few from a friend then I would never have been able to make 10 riders. Plus, there is no way I could make another 20-30 plus a command squad using that method, it would just be too expensive.

 Trickstick wrote:
I had a similar experience with the kitbash rough riders I made. Two boxes of cold one knights and plenty of Cadian plastics wasn't too bad, but the hard part was ten pairs of the tank commander legs:

Spoiler:

They needed splitting down the middle and a bit of work to make stirrups and stuff but worked great. If I hadn't of had enough old russ kits and a gift of a few from a friend then I would never have been able to make 10 riders. Plus, there is no way I could make another 20-30 plus a command squad using that method, it would just be too expensive.

If it weren't for the fact that there is no point anymore as the riders seem to be getting squatted, I'd tell you to use Skitarii dunestrider rider legs. Got a few myself off a bitz site when I wanted to make bikers for my skitarii force.

They been doing this in old codex's and white dwarfs for 20yrs.....

This is literally what they do all the time, its a fun suggestion.

I used them with dkok death rider rules, which should be around for a while.

I bought something like 55 heads for about $20+ shipping on [popular online auction site]. I was toying with maybe having a bunch of un-helmeted heads commissioned or something. Til then everyone gets helmets lol.

I'm already trying to find ways to cheaply turn Freeguild Greatswords into a dapper regiment of my own. Problem is I want to keep the puffy sleeves but the pose they're in is not exactly forgiving to gun-based conversions.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
I'm already trying to find ways to cheaply turn Freeguild Greatswords into a dapper regiment of my own. Problem is I want to keep the puffy sleeves but the pose they're in is not exactly forgiving to gun-based conversions.

Could you have them with lasguns slung and melee weapons out? May look a bit like fanasy models with lasguns stuck on them though.

Possibly. It does give me the hilarious mental image of an entire army of Jack Churchills.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
Possibly. It does give me the hilarious mental image of an entire army of Jack Churchills.

Hilarious, yet strangely awesome as well.

Well, I'm going to convert my own conscripts, mostly because a full conscripts squad of metal Armageddon Steel Legion troopers would be silly expensive, I want the conscripts to look like they have literally been given a gun, some armour, a grenade and sent off to fight.

So, I'm gonna use the Genestealer Cults Neophytes box, carve off the cult symbols, use the chem trooper heads from MaxMini, human arms, and hey presto - a PDF style conscripts squad that uses different equipment (so it's not just copy paste) but more like workers/Gangers/criminals pressed into action.

Total cost will be around £24 for 10, but I'll have plenty of bitz left over for Necromunda, satisfy the majority rule for using them in a GW store, and I'll actually end up with 10 soldiers rather than 7, as the Steel Legion squad comes with a missile launcher team and a grenade launcher. Useful, but not so much you end up with more than you can realistically use!

I might do that conversion but use them as Scions or vets instead.

Then I can use the steam tank as a Taurox.

I like the fact that it at least gives some ideas for conversion, right now I really want to get a box of neophytes just to see where I can go with them (and no clear goal in mind, I already have a million cadians, steel legion, and valhallans). I dont see why they WOULDN'T sell bits individually, if they parceled them out at 3rd party sellers prices (plus they would always be in stock) they would make a mint, way more than if they tried to get us buy new kits for that single part instead of going to bit sellers online.