Does GW really expect us to convert IG models using their suggestions?

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**Commissar Benny**

MrMoustaffa wrote:
I honestly think this is why we don't get new regiment kits. Think about the sheer amount of competition GW would be facing trying to muscle its way back into the Imperial Guard model market when there's so much competition out there. They're beaten on price by historicals conversions, they're beaten on quality and options by high profile offerings like Vic, and there are hundreds of options everywhere in between, even in plastic. Gw's only advantage at that point is that they are name brand, which only really seems to be an issue in England, as in America most people play at 3rd party stores that don't care.

So when GW looks at making new kits, they can make an IG set of 3 or so boxes that has a stiff amount of competition and already has most of it's potential buyers bought out, or it can just release a new space marine box and watch it sell out overnight.

I hate to be the cynical guy but I know which I would pick if I was trying to make money.

Other thing is shelf space, and we already know that stores, especially GW's, struggle to find shelf space for everything as is. The guard range is pretty big already, and having spaces get taken up by what are essentially duplicates of the same kit (and directly competing with one another) means we'll probably never see regiment kits in plastic. They'll continue to be a metal option online and through Forgeworld, but that's about it. I'd love to be proven wrong but when you think about it from a business point of view it makes sense.

I agree that there is certainly a lot of competition in the IG market right now. Lots of 3rd party retailers are making a killing. Would they be if GW actually gave their existing ranges proper support though? I mean, most of the IG infantry range is pewter metal. Nearly 20 years old. I wouldn't have bought 3rd party if GW actually offered an alternative. I've written them letters. Emailed them. Literally spent thousands of dollars on their product only to be met with silence or "not enough interest". I've exhausted all options.

I also agree that store space is limited. It would be difficult to find shelf space for all the different IG regiments. That said I've always had to order my stuff online for years as its never in stock on the shelves, whether it be terrain or IG models. I think that is more of a logistics problem GW has in general rather than an IG specific issue.

You bring up a lot of valid points. Money obviously being the driving factor. Which leads me to my final point. How much profit does GW need to make on a project in order for them to deem it an worthwhile investment? 200%? 300%? 1000%? It seems to me that these days anything that doesn't generate space marine profit is just sidelined.

**Future War Cultist**

A compromise could be,

make new infantry kits for the cadians and the catachans. Ones that are more in line with their command squad boxes. And keep the vostroyians in circulation. So we now have three quite different regiments quick to hand, each one with an infantry, command and weapon team box.

Then, release regiment upgrade kits for whatever regiments you can manage out of that. Sprues with alternative heads and weapons, plus officer and tank crew parts too, that can be used to convert the cadians.

**The Phazer**

Commissar Benny wrote:
NurglesR0T wrote:
Missed opportunity for them to release regiment kits.

I would have been happy with regiment upgrade sprues even. A pack of 10-20 heads with torso's to compliment the desired regiment, with the cadian box as the base for everything else.

^This. I don't understand GW's reasoning on this issue. They knew darn well the community wanted new IG plastics. We have been asking for it for years. Everyone was talking about it leading up to the codex release and we got nothing. After waiting nearly 2 decades, I finally gave up & spent $300.00 on third party bits. I would have gladly paid twice that for updated regiment plastic kits from GW.

GW's reasoning is pretty clearly they're getting out all the 8th ed codexes ASAP, and there aren't going to be models attached to any of them (save for the odd special character repack). So they were thinking that with the Guard codex.

Once we've got through the first two model range releases this year, we'll get a third model range and so and so forth, but they will probably only connect to a Codex release by co-incidence. So the Guard codex doesn't rule out some new Guard models soonish.

A scenario in which Sisters (I know, but making a foolhardy assumption the rumours are true this time) ship after Christmas, we have no idea what the next model range is. For all we know, some Guard upgrade sprues that help you to make different regiments could be coming in March/April time. And that would be neat! And absolutely worth asking GW for too - it's a plausible enough ask that they'd sell greatcoat torsos/a few legs to add on to the Cadian kits like they do Marine upgrade sprues. It just seems silly to complain that GW are featuring conversions to inspire people to look through their bits boxes and come up with interesting new regiments again.

Especially when, under the 8th ed rules, smaller Guard forces allied to larger formations (such as Genestealer Cult or other Imperial armies) are perfectly plausible. Not many people are going to build a £700 army of these regiments, but some people may well throw together a few squads for a small allied detachment.

**Kdash**

Lord Perversor wrote:

Spoiler:

Imagination goes a long way for conversions!!

That is epic! ... In a very very strange way!

I also agree in a sense with the "competition" GW might be up against by releasing Guard upgrade bitz, but, I feel that many people, if given the chance, would prefer to have the “official” bitz in their conversions rather than a 3rd party bit. This is simply down to confidence in the product and knowing that it’s been designed to match with existing items. It is generally also easier to order and organise.

I think I’m going to bite the bullet and use GW bits myself. I’ve got some test kits on order so I’ll see how they look before making my mind up.

**MechaEmperor7000**

Thing with Guard is that, unlike marines, an "upgrade" kit is not really good for anyone; Guard are so different that they're better off making entirely new sculpts instead of making an upgrade kit for Catachans or Cadians. Like just comparing Mordians to Cadians, the former would require a new torso, pair of arms and heads. Might as well just get a new set of legs and make a completely new set at that point. Marines are better for upgrade sprues because no matter what chapter the marine is from, his power armor is largely the same.

If GW does really want to encourage people making up their own regiments, they need to come up with a different approach to their Guard line. Instead of making a full set of bodies on a single sprue, they need to divide them up. A sprue containing only one type of heads, a sprue with only one type of torsos, a sprue with only one type of arms, a sprue with only one type of legs, etc. This would be like the third party bitz and let you mix and match without having to buy an entire set of guard bitz that you will never use. They can then package these together to make "Cadians", "Catachans", "Mordians" and so forth, and/or sell them individually via bitz order so people who really want their own regiment can just order the pieces they like (or even just order the arms they like and use existing AoS models or something else).

**NenkotaMoon**

How hard is it to sell one sprue of a box like other companies do. For 8 bucks I got one for Bolt Action Marines and used that for my Airborne, using the pulled up sleeves for them.

**MechaEmperor7000**

Apparently very hard. Even when I'm just trying to get a replacement sprue for something they forgot to pack, they just opt to send me an entirely new box instead (although I do really appreciate the extra stuff they give me).

However the way GW cuts their sprues is also the issue. one of their modern sprues would probably have one leg on one sprue and the only other matching, fitting leg on the other sprue.

**argonak**

The GSC upgrade sprue seems like such a good idea, I don't understand why they don't follow it up.

Really you could have 8 guard armies that just use the cadian or catachan torso and legs, and have head and shoulder upgrade sprues for the rest.

If these small time companies can produce these new model lines, why the heck can't GW?

**Tim the Biovore**

Are there any rules for running the kitbashed forces? I haven't paid attention, but I saw Warhammer Community running summaries of the way you could play Cadians, Catachans, Vostroyans, etc; are there rules/strategems for any army that doesn't have miniatures, metal or otherwise?

Forge World seems like the possible solution, but I don't think they would create upgrade kits to anything without rules in either main studio or Forge World indexes.

**Kdash**

Tim the Biovore wrote:
Are there any rules for running the kitbashed forces? I haven't paid attention, but I saw Warhammer Community running summaries of the way you could play Cadians, Catachans, Vostroyans, etc; are there rules/strategems for any army that doesn't have miniatures, metal or otherwise?

Forge World seems like the possible solution, but I don't think they would create upgrade kits to anything without rules in either main studio or Forge World indexes.

You can still have a kitbashed Cadian army for example. It all works exactly the same as home brew successor chapters.

I think the only ruling really is try to be wysiwyg, have visual identifications if you are mixing and matching regiments and, if playing at a GW store/event, make sure you arent full of 3rd party minis.

**Tim the Biovore**

@Kdash
Ah, fair enough. I was wondering more if there was in anyway a WSIWYG advantage in official tournaments for running those sorts of regiments, in a sort of pay-to-win type fashion.

I don't think it would be too unrealistic to believe Forge World might come out with purely aesthetic upgrade kits at some time in the future for the various distinctive regiments. They still have the Freeguild Manann's Blades upgrade kit, even though they no longer have special rules (to my knowledge)

**MechaEmperor7000**

argonak wrote:
The GSC upgrade sprue seems like such a good idea, I don't understand why they don't follow it up.

Really you could have 8 guard armies that just use the cadian or catachan torso and legs, and have head and shoulder upgrade sprues for the rest.

If these small time companies can produce these new model lines, why the heck can't GW?

Because they sell overall less if they do that.

The reason for why a lot of kits have become dual kits is because they sell overall more plastic than if they were single kits. Realistically, kits sharing parts should have the shared parts be put on a separate sprue, while the kits themselves only pack the bare necessity needed to make what's on the box (this is how some early gundam kits are made. Check out the small Mercurius and Vayeate sets). But dual-kits means they will sell you 1 full kit + half of another kit (and charge you accordingly) when you really just wanted the 1. Some of the worst offenders is the Assault Marines kit (where if you just had 5 extra legs, you could make 10 marines instead of 5 from the box alone) and the Crypt Horrors (where the only thing they share is the leg and front of the torso). Other ones are more justified, like the Leman russ kits (where you kinda do want the other "variations" because they're just weapon options and easily magentized.

**Red_Five**

The problem is that the named IG Regiments are all too different. No other army has this problem.

If GW were doing the iconic Regiments today, I can guarantee you they would be much more similar. Probably only head and torso swaps at most.

**Ecclesiarch 616**

It's just a suggestion not a requirement. After playing for a while everybody starts to have a fair sized collection of bits and friends with collections of bits.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Prior to the 2nd Ed diversification, IG of course had a uniform, erm...uniform. This one.

Now, the Cadian look is clearly descended from this, and the others are somewhat more idealised and esoteric.

I've often wondered if GW regret diversifying in that way? Not saying they shouldn't have. All variety is good variety for me. Just a pondering.

**Ecclesiarch 616**

This takes me back. I remember killing these guys with my Mk6 beaky marines.

**MechaEmperor7000**

The ones on the bottom look like a constipated wolverine. I love em.

**Ir0njack**

I don't honestly think GW expects folks to build whole regiments based off their conversions in the Dex but its a good showing of what kind of results can be achieved with just GW kits.

As the owner of a converted guard army I fully understand how
expensive it can be to kitbash. For every guardsman I use at mininum three kits, from three different armies, thats basic guardsmen, Sgts and officers are usually sporting peices from five, six or even seven, GW kits and then theres all the 3rd party parts for things like heavy weapon teams, veterans, sentinels and bullgryn.Its pretty much like anything else you can get customized, its going to be more expensive than the base product, thinking otherwise is setting yourself up for disappointment.

On the plus side though is that its really easy to budget a custom guard army once you figure out the pieces and everything needed by doing single squad purchases and shopping around bits sellers. There is also that if you're bugeting squads out one at a time you can do buy, build, paint, buy, pretty easily and have steady growth of your regiment as opposed to a bulk buy, them build, then sit and stare at the grey horde.