Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Broadsides aren't as bad as people make them out to be. They are a little bit overpriced - probably could drop 30 points base. But when you have marker light support and or twinlinked from a commander. They just pick up models without much effort - killing tanks and infantry alike. Fire warriors are actually really good too.

No one is claiming Tau can't kill. It's the high points needed to do it. Our army is so bad because of its ridiculous costs and a few bad units with rules. Mostly the price job on units is completely killing our viability. The mathhammer has been done and redone like dozens of times showing this. From the index perspective they aren't the worst, but from a wider game perspective they are terrible for the points like most of the dex.

lol at the salty speece muhreen players still crying over 7th. makes my heart soar like a flock of gun drones.

anyways, im happy to hear im not the only ones having a difficult time with our index. ive got well over 100 hours of table time logged with our index and i pretty much agree with everything my fellow T'au have been saying. it REALLY comes down to our points costs. most things are pretty decent just heavily over priced by comparison.

Wow...Any Imperium players in here whining about Ta'u should be ashamed. you've stood before the emperor, and been found wanting. I've commanded my Adeptus Mechanicus force since 7th. I've fought enough of those cursed fishmen to be a veteran of the damocles gulf crusade. countless battles across so many planets, in 7th and 8th. If you think they have anything OP this edition, you clearly don't play them or maybe even this game. they look good on paper, but just don't hold up. Ever see an R'varna on the table? ever have to wrangle one with infantry? let me inform you, it don't move like no man. I used to have a tough fight in 7th with those xenos scum, in 8th though....I almost pity them. The whiny spehss mehrine players (who have the biggest dex in the entire game, and get ALL the love from GW) got what they wanted. The T'au went from this badass ranged army, to some weird short range assault tactics that are forced on them. By points value, they've been put into a position of limited spammy effectiveness, a box they never should've been stuck in. Let's be clear about the so called good commander list, it's cheesy...but I can't call it WAAC because it's not all costs, it's the only cost. other than that list, they can't compete, even index to index. the good scary things from last edition have been straight up saltily nerfed beyond usefulness (by point costs). My army has not lost ONCE to T'au this edition...no matter what my opponents pull. I take one look at that index and think, haters won. The players that couldn't outdo T'au tactics with the largest codex in the game...Hilarious. engage laughter protocols. *binahric laughter*. The Omnissiah won't give us Rhinos and YOU complain about killing t3 xenos? *static laughs* They didn't win any tournaments in my city lol, spehhs mehrines always win. and whined the loudest the entire time.

Don't even get me started on Drones, now that they're separate units...do you know how bad that hurts T'au on the table? it's ugly let me tell you. If they get into a kill points game they are so screwed, and almost always give up first blood because of them.

I could go on. tl;dr stfu whiny imperium players, T'au are garbage now, a good meal ruined with too much of your salt.

Archmagos XCIX wrote:
Wow...Any Imperium players in here whining about Ta'u should be ashamed. you've stood before the emperor, and been found wanting. I've commanded my Adeptus Mechanicus force since 7th. I've fought enough of those cursed fishmen to be a veteran of the damocles gulf crusade. countless battles across so many planets, in 7th and 8th. If you think they have anything OP this edition, you clearly don't play them or maybe even this game. they look good on paper, but just don't hold up. Ever see an R'varna on the table? ever have to wrangle one with infantry? let me inform you, it don't move like no man. I used to have a tough fight in 7th with those xenos scum, in 8th though....I almost pity them. The whiny spehss mehrine players (who have the biggest dex in the entire game, and get ALL the love from GW) got what they wanted. The T'au went from this badass ranged army, to some weird short range assault tactics that are forced on them. By points value, they've been put into a position of limited spammy effectiveness, a box they never should've been stuck in. Let's be clear about the so called good commander list, it's cheesy...but I can't call it WAAC because it's not all costs, it's the only cost. other than that list, they can't compete, even index to index. the good scary things from last edition have been straight up saltily nerfed beyond usefulness (by point costs). My army has not lost ONCE to T'au this edition...no matter what my opponents pull. I take one look at that index and think, haters won. The players that couldn't outdo T'au tactics with the largest codex in the game...Hilarious. engage laughter protocols. *binahric laughter*. The Omnissiah won't give us Rhinos and YOU complain about killing t3 xenos? *static laughs* They didn't win any tournaments in my city lol, spehhs mehrines always win. and whined the loudest the entire time.

Don't even get me started on Drones, now that they're separate units...do you know how bad that hurts T'au on the table? it's ugly let me tell you. Of they get into a kill points game they are so screwed, and almost always give up first blood because of them.

I could go on. tl;dr stfu whiny imperium players, T'au are garbage now, a good meal ruined with too much of your salt.

That is the most refreshing thing I’ve heard. I still have my doubts our 8th codex will be any good. Too much hate and salt.

It's amazing how much salt there is considering Tau were a mid tier codex in 7th, and have been nerfed pretty hard in 8th. Yes, 'tides were a problem, but they were also the only really competitive unit in the 'dex (you never saw Tau taken because of broadsides or crisis suits, or ghost keels).

But hey, so long as it's not your army right?

Oh it's gonna be a long time before i forget 6/7th. Tau was the biggest bully list perhaps ever; anyone playing casual or who had a mediocre codex just autolost. Imperials had to break out invisible death stars to have a chance and those of us with no access to invisibility just got shot off the table like chumps.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Wolfblade wrote:
It's amazing how much salt there is considering Tau were a mid tier codex in 7th, and have been nerfed pretty hard in 8th. Yes, 'tides were a problem, but they were also the only really competitive unit in the 'dex (you never saw Tau taken because of broadsides or crisis suits, or ghost keels).

But hey, so long as it's not your army right?

If by mid tier you mean autowin vs half the codices in the game, sure.

 Wolfblade wrote:
It's amazing how much salt there is considering Tau were a mid tier codex in 7th, and have been nerfed pretty hard in 8th. Yes, 'tides were a problem, but they were also the only really competitive unit in the 'dex (you never saw Tau taken because of broadsides or crisis suits, or ghost keels).

But hey, so long as it's not your army right?

These are the justification many use, but Tau hate goes deeper than most. It almost seems to be a psychological issue where they hate and discriminate against Tau for no reason. They just hate us in a pure mammalian emotional response. That primitive part of their brain. Whenever I ask Tau haters why they hate Tau it always seems to just boil down to I hate them once all the pretty words are gone. However there is something that triggers Tau to be hated in this way more and its hard to put words on it. I've been trying to for awhile. Almost like its a root fear for them because of the intensity of their response.

Edit
Tau was mid tier in 7th and all the data backs that up. The only broken thing was Riptides and Riptide Wings and slightly the double stormsurge combo. That is all that "broke" the Tau. The other races dexes were so bad they got their ass kicked by anyone higher tier than them. So why take your hate out on Tau specifically? Because you hate Tau you just hate Tau players fething faces for playing them. I know how you think. Your a fantasy racist through and through. I've thrown up tons of tournament data, math hammer, and all sorts of data from 7th to show that against dexes of a similar tier the Tau usually lost barring the extreme cheese. It's not the Tau's fault your dex was weak. Space marines were always stomping in 7th all the time. Why no hate for them? The Eldar seen some hate, but nothing to the level of Tau despite being 10x worse. Chaos Deamons nothing either. None of them actual top tier cheese has anywhere near the hate.

40k Racist. A thing that exists. Probably spawned on 4chan from memes and gak posting.

Martel732 wrote:
Oh it's gonna be a long time before i forget 6/7th. Tau was the biggest bully list perhaps ever; anyone playing casual or who had a mediocre codex just autolost. Imperials had to break out invisible death stars to have a chance and those of us with no access to invisibility just got shot off the table like chumps.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Wolfblade wrote:
It's amazing how much salt there is considering Tau were a mid tier codex in 7th, and have been nerfed pretty hard in 8th. Yes, 'tides were a problem, but they were also the only really competitive unit in the 'dex (you never saw Tau taken because of broadsides or crisis suits, or ghost keels).

But hey, so long as it's not your army right?

If by mid tier you mean autowin vs half the codices in the game, sure.

Bigger than barkstar which can assault basically everything across the board? Or eldar? Or daemon summoning factory? Or basically any psychic deathstar? Right, sure.

"Mid tier" as in "places in the middle of the pack".

 Gamgee wrote:

 Wolfblade wrote:
It's amazing how much salt there is considering Tau were a mid tier codex in 7th, and have been nerfed pretty hard in 8th. Yes, 'tides were a problem, but they were also the only really competitive unit in the 'dex (you never saw Tau taken because of broadsides or crisis suits, or ghost keels).

But hey, so long as it's not your army right?

These are the justification many use, but Tau hate goes deeper than most. It almost seems to be a psychological issue where they hate and discriminate against Tau for no reason. They just hate us in a pure mammalian emotional response. That primitive part of their brain. Whenever I ask Tau haters why they hate Tau it always seems to just boil down to I hate them once all the pretty words are gone. However there is something that triggers Tau to be hated in this way more and its hard to put words on it. I've been trying to for awhile. Almost like its a root fear for them because of the intensity of their response.

That's what it seems like. The reason to hate tau is others hate tau.

No, you were just giant cheese mongers for editions. What goes up usually comes down. I say usually because eldar.

Tau were elite for two editions, even though there were a few bigger cheeses.

I'd also like to point out, T'au don't have a Cawl, or Celestine..or...y'know...Primarchs...

The reality is, outside a Riptide wing and other standard cheese (which space marines have in abundance) they weren't that scary in 8th. The more I played them, and got to know my opponents army as well as my own, I started being able to beat them. With my Ad Mech. In 7th my rangers outperform a fire warrior unit squad to squad any day. If you played against bullies and have a crappy community, I feel ya. But where I'm from, we have a big group of good people. I learned how to purge the xenos scum with grav destroyers and Kastelans back in 7th. With a codex a fraction of the size of space marines.

Martel732 wrote:
No, you were just giant cheese mongers for editions. What goes up usually comes down. I say usually because eldar.

I fell like your channeling Traditio here with your hatred of Tau. It's mostly irrational since Tau are gonna be pretty bad for this edition.

When were marines so bad that they've never been competitive? 8th, kinda? I mean, they still have reroll girllyman, access to everything else in the imperium's playbook as needed.

Actually, the only cheese Tau really had were riptides. Take them away and you had an ok army with internal balance issues (i.e. vespids)

Archmagos XCIX wrote:
If you think they have anything OP this edition, you clearly don't play them or maybe even this game.

No one is saying that.

M.

I think a lot of the salt directed at Tau was because of people going "hmm, my scatterbike eldar need a little something - I know, a riptide wing!".

I don't pay Tau but I like the models, especially the big Gundams; I'd like riptides to be just sliiiiightly overpointed so I could pick a few up without people throwing to much shade my way, and yet not get curbstomped.

Logic need not apply for tau haters.
At some point I even ran mathematical comparisons to show even the riptide can't shoot all that well outside the spesific overcharge ion accelerator by showing how subpar units (like the necron Anni barge) out shoot it in almost every scenario, that didn't matter.

Tau on 7th were a decent nid tier army with ONE overpowered choice, a riptide with ion accelerator (hymp broadsides were very good too, but not op)
That's why late 7th the only tau to reach tournament high tables were a riptide wing inside another army, usually eldar.

Even during 6th "glory days", the best build was by far taudar. Who was more eldar than tau, and abused psyker powers on riptides.

Heck, tau were hated at godamn 5h, when we were the worst codex by far. Power level isn't even an excuse back then.

Archmagos XCIX wrote:
Wow...Any Imperium players in here whining about Ta'u should be ashamed. you've stood before the emperor, and been found wanting. I've commanded my Adeptus Mechanicus force since 7th. I've fought enough of those cursed fishmen to be a veteran of the damocles gulf crusade. countless battles across so many planets, in 7th and 8th. If you think they have anything OP this edition, you clearly don't play them or maybe even this game. they look good on paper, but just don't hold up. Ever see an R'varna on the table? ever have to wrangle one with infantry? let me inform you, it don't move like no man. I used to have a tough fight in 7th with those xenos scum, in 8th though....I almost pity them. The whiny spehss mehrine players (who have the biggest dex in the entire game, and get ALL the love from GW) got what they wanted. The T'au went from this badass ranged army, to some weird short range assault tactics that are forced on them. By points value, they've been put into a position of limited spammy effectiveness, a box they never should've been stuck in. Let's be clear about the so called good commander list, it's cheesy...but I can't call it WAAC because it's not all costs, it's the only cost. other than that list, they can't compete, even index to index. the good scary things from last edition have been straight up saltily nerfed beyond usefulness (by point costs). My army has not lost ONCE to T'au this edition...no matter what my opponents pull. I take one look at that index and think, haters won. The players that couldn't outdo T'au tactics with the largest codex in the game...Hilarious. engage laughter protocols. *binahric laughter*. The Omnissiah won't give us Rhinos and YOU complain about killing t3 xenos? *static laughs* They didn't win any tournaments in my city lol, spehhs mehrines always win. and whined the loudest the entire time.

Don't even get me started on Drones, now that they're separate units...do you know how bad that hurts T'au on the table? it's ugly let me tell you. If they get into a kill points game they are so screwed, and almost always give up first blood because of them.

I could go on. tl;dr stfu whiny imperium players, T'au are garbage now, a good meal ruined with too much of your salt.

So everything Tau has is useless, and seperate drones is super bad, even tho you can allocate wounds to them. People hate tau because of people with attitudes like yours.

Drones suck other than gun drones which aren’t op at all. If it wasn’t for them acting as shooting multipliers at the same time as wounds for so cheap we would be stuck with fire warriors and even more points inefficient lists. Since we would need fire warriors to shoot and some other drone tax to keep our units alive.

Gun drones are the only perfect unit we have right now, and they don’t win battles without support. They don’t need to be changed.

Or should drones not stop wounds now and cost 50 points a drone Tau hater?

Separate drones are bad because they rely on their crap morale. If they were upgrades to units they could use the squads better morale and also stop wounds, but god forbid the Tau actually stand a chance of a chance to survive longer than a picosecond.

Brutality your literally the stereotypical Tau hater that doesn’t respond to thought or rational talk but just posts verbal garbage and clutter. Thanks for you rousing argument.

 Brutallica wrote:
but its my experince with Tau players never ever take a chance or go with a different style. Only what wins games. Is it a Tau thing or just an unlucky stigma?

That sounds like any 40k player in tournaments. Gee. People take strong lists to tournaments/leagues. What a newsflash.

If army needs to be nerfed to death because people take only optimal builds to tournaments/leagues then all armies should be nerfed to uselessness.

text removed.

Reds8n



Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:

 Brutallica wrote:
but its my experince with Tau players never ever take a chance or go with a different style. Only what wins games. Is it a Tau thing or just an unlucky stigma?

That sounds like any 40k player in tournaments. Gee. People take strong lists to tournaments/leagues. What a newsflash.

If army needs to be nerfed to death because people take only optimal builds to tournaments/leagues then all armies should be nerfed to uselessness.

Im not talking about tournament Tau, everyone plays the same copycat junk in tournaments. So that would go for everyone IF i was talking about tournaments.

In 7th Tau had one OP thing: the Riptide Wing formation. The Riptide itself was very good and deserved a point increase, but it was the formation that did the heavy lifting.

In 8th Tau are bottom tier, by far. The only playable units are Commanders and Drones.
It is not a matter for debate: it was statistically demonstrated in a thread (here on dakka) where players collected their results over the summer.
The release of the Codex for some armies made it even more difficult for Tau to even have a chance of winning (bar using only Commanders and Drones).

Martel732 wrote:
Until tau suffer gk-level pennance, i will be firmly anti-tau.

Classic Martel. Can we organise a hall of fame?

 Brutallica wrote:
Im not talking about tournament Tau, everyone plays the same copycat junk in tournaments. So that would go for everyone IF i was talking about tournaments.

Tournament lists have habit of bleeding into other games outside close group of friends in private games and those vary by group. But random games in FLGS? Expect to see tournament level lists regardless of army.

As usual, these Tau threads all go down to pointed fingers. Although I seriously suspect FLG had their gribbly hands on such nerf - as we all know, they didn't love Tau that much back then. But I can't prove that, so I have to roll with what I have.

These places can help you, OP (if you are still around):

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/726989.page

http://www.advancedtautactica.com/viewforum.php?f=52&sid=d938330dcf6301b283b98fd29aa8b945

https://www.reddit.com/r/Tau40K/

as also watching battle reports (Tau is a popular army, so you might find a sizeable number of them)

As for my own opinion... Tau could go toe-to-toe with SM flavours back when they both used indexes. AM was harder (also index).
Now that SM and AM have their indexes, you should expect these games to get a lot harder (especially AM)

Didn't fight other xenos or chaos, so can't comment on them.

 Wolfblade wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
No, you were just giant cheese mongers for editions. What goes up usually comes down. I say usually because eldar.

I fell like your channeling Traditio here with your hatred of Tau. It's mostly irrational since Tau are gonna be pretty bad for this edition.

When were marines so bad that they've never been competitive? 8th, kinda? I mean, they still have reroll girllyman, access to everything else in the imperium's playbook as needed.

Actually, the only cheese Tau really had were riptides. Take them away and you had an ok army with internal balance issues (i.e. vespids)

2nd and 5th.

For BA, that expands to 2nd, 4th, first half of 5th, 6th, 7th, and now 8th.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BoomWolf wrote:
Logic need not apply for tau haters.
At some point I even ran mathematical comparisons to show even the riptide can't shoot all that well outside the spesific overcharge ion accelerator by showing how subpar units (like the necron Anni barge) out shoot it in almost every scenario, that didn't matter.

Tau on 7th were a decent nid tier army with ONE overpowered choice, a riptide with ion accelerator (hymp broadsides were very good too, but not op)
That's why late 7th the only tau to reach tournament high tables were a riptide wing inside another army, usually eldar.

Even during 6th "glory days", the best build was by far taudar. Who was more eldar than tau, and abused psyker powers on riptides.

Heck, tau were hated at godamn 5h, when we were the worst codex by far. Power level isn't even an excuse back then.

z

Didn't care about Tau in 5th.

tau are probably number one on the list of armies I wish they were updating instead of getting us to 90% Chaos/Imperium army codexes by january. Seriously, we'll have Space Marines, CSM, AM, DG, GK, BA, DA, Daemons, Admech all done, and all of two freakin' xenos armies will have codexes, with factions like Orks, Tau, and Necrons still sitting around with their thumbs up their butts waiting for rules that don't suck.

Exactly one of my armies has a codex currently (my vostroyans) and for the rest I've got the prospect of just sitting around and waiting for another three plus months for GW to get to the interesting factions. HOpefully CA brings out some stuff to close the gap.

GW had their chance to be different and release Tau instead of Eldar.

Martel732 wrote:
GW had their chance to be different and release Tau instead of Eldar.

Yeah, because we can't replace any of the seven marine factions that had to come out before we could get to any xenos in the release schedule, that's just a given.

I'm willing to throw the Space Wolves under the bus. Or the GK. I knew the GK would suck in 8th anyway.

Forget gk, they got released along DG so they get a pass.

Why is the next release BA and DA? That's just absurd.
They could easily do one and a xeno.

Martel732 wrote:
No, you were just giant cheese mongers for editions. What goes up usually comes down. I say usually because eldar.

Tau were elite for two editions, even though there were a few bigger cheeses.

Riptides were elite for two editions, not the Tau as a whole.

As for how Tau do at the moment? We basically do not play like Tau. We lost our signature manoeuvrability (jump-shoot-jump), though GW had made that basically non-essential with their idiotic rules writing which gave an army which should operate as a mobile mechanised force bonuses for clustering up and standing still, a lot of our units are overcosted by some margin for the firepower they put out (e.g. 165ppm minimum for a Heavy 2, S8, -4AP, D: D6 weapon and 2 Rapid Fire 1 S6 AP-3 D1 weapons) and our Commander aura buffs are limited use.

But SM were cheese for at least 3 editions now:
6E: Relentless Grav
7E: Obsec Spam, Relentless Grav, Skyhammer, Gladius, and more
8E: Big-G

I'm glad Tau aren't what they were last edition, too, but I'd rather not see any faction busted that far down.