So how are Tau doing this edition?

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**Brutallica**

BoomWolf wrote:
Forget gk, they got released along DG so they get a pass.

Why is the next release BA and DA? That's just absurd.
They could easily do one and a xeno.

I agree on this, they could have kicked 8th up in gear with a xeno and marine release. Im wondering if this is a 'buisness model' from GW to make people jump ship to more unpopular armies.

**Martel732**

Bharring wrote:
But SM were cheese for at least 3 editions now:
6E: Relentless Grav
7E: Obsec Spam, Relentless Grav, Skyhammer, Gladius, and more
8E: Big-G

I'm glad Tau aren't what they were last edition, too, but I'd rather not see any faction busted that far down.

Interestingly enough, i'm not a marine player, but rather, an meq player. GW got the memo on their poster boys getting the beat down in 5th i guess.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also rumor has it from my local store that ba kits have sold poorly for 5 years. Wonder why?

**Galas**

Martel732 wrote:
Bharring wrote:
But SM were cheese for at least 3 editions now:
6E: Relentless Grav
7E: Obsec Spam, Relentless Grav, Skyhammer, Gladius, and more
8E: Big-G

I'm glad Tau aren't what they were last edition, too, but I'd rather not see any faction busted that far down.

Interestingly enough, i'm not a marine player, but rather, an meq player. GW got the memo on their poster boys getting the beat down in 5th i guess.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also rumor has it from my local store that ba kits have sold poorly for 5 years. Wonder why?

You deserve it for being a Twilight Marine. Come to the Not-Chaos-Legit Angels. We had Barkastar and now Azrael parking lot. But still 20 points powerfists. But no problem GW will fix it in 1 month and a half because obviously thats more of a priority than the big Xenos factions having a Codex.

**Captain Joystick**

Martel732 wrote:
Until tau suffer gk-level pennance

That was 5th edition. Where they did only one thing almost as well as generalist armies and half their generic HQ choices had the super incredible power to make the army run away screaming after they died.

I'm looking forward to seeing what they get in their codex. Hoping the hammerheads get some love.

**Imateria**

Brutallica wrote:
Archmagos XCIX wrote:
Wow...Any Imperium players in here whining about Ta'u should be ashamed. you've stood before the emperor, and been found wanting. I've commanded my Adeptus Mechanicus force since 7th. I've fought enough of those cursed fishmen to be a veteran of the damocles gulf crusade. countless battles across so many planets, in 7th and 8th. If you think they have anything OP this edition, you clearly don't play them or maybe even this game. they look good on paper, but just don't hold up. Ever see an R'varna on the table? ever have to wrangle one with infantry? let me inform you, it don't move like no man. I used to have a tough fight in 7th with those xenos scum, in 8th though....I almost pity them. The whiny spehss mehrine players (who have the biggest dex in the entire game, and get ALL the love from GW) got what they wanted. The T'au went from this badass ranged army, to some weird short range assault tactics that are forced on them. By points value, they've been put into a position of limited spammy effectiveness, a box they never should've been stuck in. Let's be clear about the so called good commander list, it's cheesy...but I can't call it WAAC because it's not all costs, it's the only cost. other than that list, they can't compete, even index to index. the good scary things from last edition have been straight up saltily nerfed beyond usefulness (by point costs). My army has not lost ONCE to T'au this edition...no matter what my opponents pull. I take one look at that index and think, haters won. The players that couldn't outdo T'au tactics with the largest codex in the game...Hilarious. engage laughter protocols. *binahric laughter*. The Omnissiah won't give us Rhinos and YOU complain about killing t3 xenos? *static laughs* They didn't win any tournaments in my city lol, spehhs mehrines always win. and whined the loudest the entire time.

Don't even get me started on Drones, now that they're separate units...do you know how bad that hurts T'au on the table? it's ugly let me tell you. If they get into a kill points game they are so screwed, and almost always give up first blood because of them.

I could go on. tl;dr stfu whiny imperium players, T'au are garbage now, a good meal ruined with too much of your salt.

So everything Tau has is useless, and seperate drones is super bad, even tho you can allocate wounds to them. People hate tau because of people with attitudes like yours.

The fact that you're a terrible player isn't the fault of Tau but yourself. I mean, you always shoot the bodyguard units first to stop them soaking up wounds, doesn't matter if its drones or Tyrant Guard, this is pretty much tactics 101. And yes, everything else Tau has is useless. Like Archmagos above I'm not a Tau player, Dark Eldar and Nids here, but I feel so sorry for my Tau playing friends because I have to run Wych Cults or Haemonculus Covens just to avoid kerbstomping them.

Given the illogical hate your spouting, every post you've made in this thread is shouting TFG really loudly.

**Xenomancers**

I beat dark eldar everytime with tau. Rockets are particularly good against dark eldar.

**Brutallica**

Imateria wrote:
Brutallica wrote:
Archmagos XCIX wrote:
Wow...Any Imperium players in here whining about Ta'u should be ashamed. you've stood before the emperor, and been found wanting. I've commanded my Adeptus Mechanicus force since 7th. I've fought enough of those cursed fishmen to be a veteran of the damocles gulf crusade. countless battles across so many planets, in 7th and 8th. If you think they have anything OP this edition, you clearly don't play them or maybe even this game. they look good on paper, but just don't hold up. Ever see an R'varna on the table? ever have to wrangle one with infantry? let me inform you, it don't move like no man. I used to have a tough fight in 7th with those xenos scum, in 8th though....I almost pity them. The whiny spehss mehrine players (who have the biggest dex in the entire game, and get ALL the love from GW) got what they wanted. The T'au went from this badass ranged army, to some weird short range assault tactics that are forced on them. By points value, they've been put into a position of limited spammy effectiveness, a box they never should've been stuck in. Let's be clear about the so called good commander list, it's cheesy...but I can't call it WAAC because it's not all costs, it's the only cost. other than that list, they can't compete, even index to index. the good scary things from last edition have been straight up saltily nerfed beyond usefulness (by point costs). My army has not lost ONCE to T'au this edition...no matter what my opponents pull. I take one look at that index and think, haters won. The players that couldn't outdo T'au tactics with the largest codex in the game...Hilarious. engage laughter protocols. *binahric laughter*. The Omnissiah won't give us Rhinos and YOU complain about killing t3 xenos? *static laughs* They didn't win any tournaments in my city lol, spehhs mehrines always win. and whined the loudest the entire time.

Don't even get me started on Drones, now that they're separate units...do you know how bad that hurts T'au on the table? it's ugly let me tell you. If they get into a kill points game they are so screwed, and almost always give up first blood because of them.

I could go on. tl;dr stfu whiny imperium players, T'au are garbage now, a good meal ruined with too much of your salt.

So everything Tau has is useless, and seperate drones is super bad, even tho you can allocate wounds to them. People hate tau because of people with attitudes like yours.

The fact that you're a terrible player isn't the fault of Tau but yourself. I mean, you always shoot the bodyguard units first to stop them soaking up wounds, doesn't matter if its drones or Tyrant Guard, this is pretty much tactics 101. And yes, everything else Tau has is useless. Like Archmagos above I'm not a Tau player, Dark Eldar and Nids here, but I feel so sorry for my Tau playing friends because I have to run Wych Cults or Haemonculus Covens just to avoid kerbstomping them.

Given the illogical hate your spouting, every post you've made in this thread is shouting TFG really loudly.

text removed.
Don't bypass the language filter like this Reds8n

**orchewer**

Re: The OP's Question ...

I've played a couple of games with Tau in 8th so far. Beat Guard, Orks, and Necrons, but keep losing to Chaos. Tau are definitely different than back in 4th Edition:
- Surprisingly, less manouverable due to the loss of Jump-Shoot-Jump
- New wound chart hurt Tau a little bit as the pulse rifle no longer wounds T3 models on a 2+
- A few of our classic Crisis Suit load outs are no longer really viable (no one really uses Fireknife anymore, especially since our Plasma Guns got nerfed)
- Whole host of different suit options (Ghostkeels, Stormsurges, Riptides) now exist
- Ethereals dying no longer causes our entire army to collapse
Etc.

As people have mentioned, competitive Tau does seem to be Commander spam with as many Drones as possible (Tau get a new special rule which states that Drones can take wounds from Suits). I don't play Commander Spam, so that probably explains my middling 8th record, but I have found some success in other areas:
- Stealth Suits with Advanced Targeting Systems are expensive, but are incredibly effective
- Cadre Fireblade with Firewarriors and a Pulse Accelerator Drone from a Pathfinder Squad is a mean little combo
- Ghostkeels are amazing distraction Carnifexes

I've had fun with them and I'll patiently wait for the new codex to see what new toys I can bring into my army.

**BoomWolf**

Except it pretty much is an autolose army?

Tau unit these days have been watered down, simplified and then made really bad at cost-effect ratios.

Nearly every one of our units can be directly compared to a similar marine unit that is considered non-viable, and lose.

Index tau have no firepower, mobility, or unique abilities.
The only thing tau CAN do, is try to zerg rush you with cost-efficent yet stupid drones (can only shoot nearest target, short range to begin with though), and rather efficient commanders and hope to drown you in numbers.
Tau. drown you in numbers.
I assume you can see why that would fail against ACTUAL horde armies that have mechanics to support their hordes.

**Martel732**

8 pt firewarriors have 3+ armor in cover and wound almost everything on a 5+ at worst. They are amazing, imo. I play against a list with 90-100 of these guys and have yet to beat it.

**Xenomancers**

Martel732 wrote:
8 pt firewarriors have 3+ armor in cover and wound almost everything on a 5+ at worst. They are amazing, imo. I play against a list with 90-100 of these guys and have yet to beat it.

The firewarrior is really good. Lots of tau players only have riptides though so ... they just whine.

**BoomWolf**

13 point marines have 2+ armor in cover, hit everything on a 3+, have a better T, if it comes to a slap fight they'll win and the are hailed by some as the worst troops in the game.

Fire warriors are not utter junk, but you can't hold a goddamn army around a unit with no access to heavy weapons, because the only thing fire warriors can handle is other light infantry, and drones outpreform them.
As FW can't hold objectives anyway and practically any other troop in the game can toss them away, being ObjSec isn't helping them, so might as well take the slightly more efficient drone.

The problem with tau, is that all the heavy tools are just ourtight BAD (commander aside)
A railgun hammerhead for example, costs more than a predator, but a single rail shot is nowhere near as good as 4 lascannons.
Heck, a rail BROADSIDE costs like a predator with twinlas+heavy bolters. its not nearly as good.

Crisis suits are overpriced jak that makes the new "marine crisis suits" that are the inceptors look amazing in comparison.

Skyray are an outright joke.
Markerlights as a whole are an outright joke. half the things it does either overlap with mandatory wargear (you can't afford NOT to take them, because you can't trust the lights to be there), does something situational or even does things you don't give a damn about.

Heck, the index as a whole, and markerlights as the core mechanic are SO bad, the army is barely competitive if you assume all-time 5 markers on every enemy unit, for free. (aside from the gun drone, who would become outright broken on these conditions as he really gains the most from lights)

**Martel732**

BoomWolf wrote:
13 point marines have 2+ armor in cover, hit everything on a 3+, have a better T, if it comes to a slap fight they'll win and the are hailed by some as the worst troops in the game.

Fire warriors are not utter junk, but you can't hold a goddamn army around a unit with no access to heavy weapons, because the only thing fire warriors can handle is other light infantry, and drones outpreform them.
As FW can't hold objectives anyway and practically any other troop in the game can toss them away, being ObjSec isn't helping them, so might as well take the slightly more efficient drone.

The problem with tau, is that all the heavy tools are just ourtight BAD (commander aside)
A railgun hammerhead for example, costs more than a predator, but a single rail shot is nowhere near as good as 4 lascannons.
Heck, a rail BROADSIDE costs like a predator with twinlas+heavy bolters. its not nearly as good.

Crisis suits are overpriced jak that makes the new "marine crisis suits" that are the inceptors look amazing in comparison.

Skyray are an outright joke.
Markerlights as a whole are an outright joke. half the things it does either overlap with mandatory wargear (you can't afford NOT to take them, because you can't trust the lights to be there), does something situational or even does things you don't give a damn about.

Heck, the index as a whole, and markerlights as the core mechanic are SO bad, the army is barely competitive if you assume all-time 5 markers on every enemy unit, for free. (aside from the gun drone, who would become outright broken on these conditions as he really gains the most from lights)

13 pt marines have far fewer shots than 8 pt firewarriors, and can't engage T8 with THEIR SMALL ARMS. Firewarriors are closer to the magical geq pricepoint, and are leaps and bounds better than tac marines. Obviously the perfect unit being a 1pt model with 1 S 1 T 1 W no gun no save that exist to physically prevent the opponent from moving anywhere.

Tau fire warriors are one of the reasons I consider the Repulsor unplayable.

**Galas**

Xenomancers wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
8 pt firewarriors have 3+ armor in cover and wound almost everything on a 5+ at worst. They are amazing, imo. I play against a list with 90-100 of these guys and have yet to beat it.
The firewarrior is really good. Lots of tau players only have riptides though so ... they just whine.

I have 60 Firewarriors with Rifles + 20 firewarriors with carbines and 50 Kroots.
But they are of the old ones. I'm planing to buy two start collectings to add 6 Crisis Suits of the new ones and 20 Breachers.

The Tau player with only Riptides wherent Tau players, they were Eldar players

I'm very glad that at last my Fire Wariors are doing work, and my Stealth Suits are worth it. My biggest problem to be honest is not that Broadsides and Riptides are nerfed, I have only 6 of the first ones ant one Riptide. But I want my Tanks to be viable. I love Tau tanks, and Piranhas (I have 4). And I want to be able to use them.

**Bharring**

Model-for-model, Marines and Fire Warriors have the same number of shots in the same conditions. FW have longer range (so longer doubletap range), and have more support options that give them more range. So 'Far Fewer' is *quite* the stretch. And, if you're talking support/upgrades to maximise number of shots, you're looking at Grav Cannons and Flamers, so even being pedantic it's not correct.

Marines can wound T8 with their small arms. It's only on 6s, but everything wounds on 6s. But neither Pulse Rifles nor Boltguns are going to be doing much to T8, and do the same to T7.

They are closer to chaff, as they are points efficient. But if you're trying to survive small arms in cover, the 13ppm Marine has 16 points worth of FW survivability.

**Gene St. Ealer**

What is going on here? There's a large amount of revisionist history in this thread -- 7th edition Tau were incredibly far above "mid-tier", in both casual and competitive games. In casual play, Tau had almost nothing that was suboptimal (Kroot were pretty bad, but even Vespids... man, I wish Tyranids had Vespids in 7th, I would've been thankful for them), and fire warriors and markerlights fried lesser codices without a need for the bigger suits (don't get me started on the bigger suits...). Tau didn't need Riptide Wings to table most of the have-nots. Then, in competitive, Tau were not the top army, but they had lots of high placings -- just because they weren't number 1 didn't keep them out of the top 8. Additionally, in tournaments that allowed the Ta'unar, they WERE busted -- I think before we talk about their 8th edition rules, we need to get this out of the way. Tau were REALLY strong in 7th, and that, in addition to their one-dimensional playstyle earned them a lot of salt from players (and I don't think that was undeserved).

That being said... in 8th, they do need a buff. The comparisons to 7th edition Tyranids are apt, and having played that army in that edition, it's not very fun. I hope Tau get some good rules fairly soon. I also don't think they need to be at the front of the line, though; they received a fair bit of love in 7th from GW and Forge World, and I'd much rather see the earlier codices (Dark Eldar, Orks, Blood Angels) get their releases first. Hopefully CA makes some changes that push more of their units back into viable tier.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Martel732 wrote:
8 pt firewarriors have 3+ armor in cover and wound almost everything on a 5+ at worst. They are amazing, imo. I play against a list with 90-100 of these guys and have yet to beat it.

I never really thought about this -- obviously, fire warriors crumple much more than tanks do, but this is Punisher-tier output. I think my comparisons to 7th ed Tyranids remain apt, but I guess Tau do have a few different strats they can do (Commander spam, FW spam, stealth/ghostkeel lists).

**Martel732**

Dude. There are 60% more firewarriors than marines. What are talking about? They get 60% more shots per point.

**Xenomancers**

Galas wrote:
Xenomancers wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
8 pt firewarriors have 3+ armor in cover and wound almost everything on a 5+ at worst. They are amazing, imo. I play against a list with 90-100 of these guys and have yet to beat it.
The firewarrior is really good. Lots of tau players only have riptides though so ... they just whine.

I have 60 Firewarriors with Rifles + 20 firewarriors with carbines and 50 Kroots.
But they are of the old ones. I'm planing to buy two start collectings to add 6 Crisis Suits of the new ones and 20 Breachers.

The Tau player with only Riptides wherent Tau players, they were Eldar players

I'm very glad that at last my Fire Wariors are doing work, and my Stealth Suits are worth it. My biggest problem to be honest is not that Broadsides and Riptides are nerfed, I have only 6 of the first ones ant one Riptide. But I want my Tanks to be viable. I love Tau tanks, and Piranhas (I have 4). And I want to be able to use them.

In 7th my go to unit was always a 10 man fire warrior and a fireblade floating around on a gunrig. It was hilariously OP. The gun rig made them count as stationary and the firebladegave them +1 shot and the gunrig got 2+ to hit twin linked rail gun. It was a pretty cheap unit too.

**Infantryman**

Damn, did not expect this to be a hot topic.

orchewer wrote:Re: The OP's Question ...

I've played a couple of games with Tau in 8th so far. Beat Guard, Orks, and Necrons, but keep losing to Chaos. Tau are definitely different than back in 4th Edition:
- Surprisingly, less manouverable due to the loss of Jump-Shoot-Jump
- New wound chart hurt Tau a little bit as the pulse rifle no longer wounds T3 models on a 2+
- A few of our classic Crisis Suit load outs are no longer really viable (no one really uses Fireknife anymore, especially since our Plasma Guns got nerfed)
- Whole host of different suit options (Ghostkeels, Stormsurges, Riptides) now exist
- Ethereals dying no longer causes our entire army to collapse
Etc.

As people have mentioned, competitive Tau does seem to be Commander spam with as many Drones as possible (Tau get a new special rule which states that Drones can take wounds from Suits). I don't play Commander Spam, so that probably explains my middling 8th record, but I have found some success in other areas:
- Stealth Suits with Advanced Targeting Systems are expensive, but are incredibly effective
- Cadre Fireblade with Firewarriors and a Pulse Accelerator Drone from a Pathfinder Squad is a mean little combo
- Ghostkeels are amazing distraction Carnifexes

I've had fun with them and I'll patiently wait for the new codex to see what new toys I can bring into my army.

Strange that they lose JSJ - that was a very important mechanic for them, I remember. The Etherial thing - I guess the Mind Control theory is no longer having any support, then.

Did Drones taking wounds go away for a few editions? I definitely remember that being there in 3e/4e.

While I was not a Tau player, I would like to see them make a comeback as most of the models were pretty cool, and I liked a non-major power Xeno force making a show of it.

(They'd better have those Gue'vesa in the Codex!)

M.

**Gene St. Ealer**

Infantryman wrote:
Damn, did not expect this to be a hot topic.

orchewer wrote:Re: The OP's Question ...

I've played a couple of games with Tau in 8th so far. Beat Guard, Orks, and Necrons, but keep losing to Chaos. Tau are definitely different than back in 4th Edition:
- Surprisingly, less manouverable due to the loss of Jump-Shoot-Jump
- New wound chart hurt Tau a little bit as the pulse rifle no longer wounds T3 models on a 2+
- A few of our classic Crisis Suit load outs are no longer really viable (no one really uses Fireknife anymore, especially since our Plasma Guns got nerfed)
- Whole host of different suit options (Ghostkeels, Stormsurges, Riptides) now exist
- Ethereals dying no longer causes our entire army to collapse
Etc.

As people have mentioned, competitive Tau does seem to be Commander spam with as many Drones as possible (Tau get a new special rule which states that Drones can take wounds from Suits). I don't play Commander Spam, so that probably explains my middling 8th record, but I have found some success in other areas:
- Stealth Suits with Advanced Targeting Systems are expensive, but are incredibly effective
- Cadre Fireblade with Firewarriors and a Pulse Accelerator Drone from a Pathfinder Squad is a mean little combo
- Ghostkeels are amazing distraction Carnifexes

I've had fun with them and I'll patiently wait for the new codex to see what new toys I can bring into my army.

Strange that they lose JSJ - that was a very important mechanic for them, I remember. The Etherial thing - I guess the Mind Control theory is no longer having any support, then.

Did Drones taking wounds go away for a few editions? I definitely remember that being there in 3e/4e.

While I was not a Tau player, I would like to see them make a comeback as most of the models were pretty cool, and I liked a non-major power Xeno force making a show of it.

(They'd better have those Gue'vesa in the Codex!)

M.

Everyone lost JSJ -- Eldar got it back in the codex (sorta), but it's clearly not a mechanic that GW wants. It also is pretty frustrating to play against.

**orchewer**

Infantryman wrote:

Did Drones taking wounds go away for a few editions? I definitely remember that being there in 3e/4e.

I think back in 3rd Ed/4th Ed, that had more to do with mixed-toughness shenanigans, but in 8th Ed, all drones essentially have an explicit rule that says "if a Suit takes a wound and your Drone is close enough, you can give that wound to the Drone instead" (I'm paraphrasing).

**Vector Strike**

Infantryman wrote:

(They'd better have those Gue'vesa in the Codex!)

M.

I wouldn't expect that. FW tried once and they had so bad rules noone really cared about them.
One way would be letting us field specific AM units as allies, but that's most akin to a patch up than a real answer

**Kanluwen**

Vector Strike wrote:
Infantryman wrote:

(They'd better have those Gue'vesa in the Codex!)

M.

I wouldn't expect that. FW tried once and they had so bad rules noone really cared about them.
One way would be letting us field specific AM units as allies, but that's most akin to a patch up than a real answer

To be fair, the Gue'vasa weren't in the codex. They were in the reprinted Taros book and as scenario specific things in the first Taros.

With that said, I really hope it's not the way you want it. The whole point of Gue'vasa is that they're units armed and equipped to fight as part of the Tau forces. They aren't really the "traitor" units by this point in time, they're people bred and raised under the Tau dominion.

They shouldn't just be Guard units. They should be something different and interesting.

**Infantryman**

Vector Strike wrote:I wouldn't expect that. FW tried once and they had so bad rules noone really cared about them.
One way would be letting us field specific AM units as allies, but that's most akin to a patch up than a real answer

I don't expect it, because the theme seems to be contraction rather than expansion for 40k in this edition.

As for rules, well not everything needs to be Tier 1 - especially not units that ostensibly require two kits to build (both of which already have other reasons to exist).

Kanluwen wrote:

To be fair, the Gue'vasa weren't in the codex. They were in the reprinted Taros book and as scenario specific things in the first Taros.

With that said, I really hope it's not the way you want it. The whole point of Gue'vasa is that they're units armed and equipped to fight as part of the Tau forces. They aren't really the "traitor" units by this point in time, they're people bred and raised under the Tau dominion.

They shouldn't just be Guard units. They should be something different and interesting.

Well, they should be a variety of things, from Traitor Guard with some (perhaps) limited Tau equipment, to Humans who've been born in and lived their entire lives within the Tau Empire - essentially trained and equipped much as such.

M.

**dragonelf**

It's T'au

**Bharring**

Some of the born 'n raised T'au Gue'sava should probably be using Pulse weaponry and the Fire Warrior stats/rules.

**Kanluwen**

Infantryman wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

To be fair, the Gue'vasa weren't in the codex. They were in the reprinted Taros book and as scenario specific things in the first Taros.

With that said, I really hope it's not the way you want it. The whole point of Gue'vasa is that they're units armed and equipped to fight as part of the Tau forces. They aren't really the "traitor" units by this point in time, they're people bred and raised under the Tau dominion.

They shouldn't just be Guard units. They should be something different and interesting.

Well, they should be a variety of things, from Traitor Guard with some (perhaps) limited Tau equipment, to Humans who've been born in and lived their entire lives within the Tau Empire - essentially trained and equipped much as such.

M.

Except no, they shouldn't.

The ones who were "traitor guard units" were NEVER actually from Guard units. Read Taros again for a great example of this, the defectors primarily came from the PDF of planets that the Tau invaded. Guard equipment got handed over to them and the Guardsmen themselves usually ended up executed/worked to death because the defectors felt the need to "prove themselves" to their new overlords.

And if that's the case well, then you might as well just field the Renegades & Heretics list from FW.

**Infantryman**

Kanluwen wrote:

Except no, they shouldn't.

The ones who were "traitor guard units" were NEVER actually from Guard units. Read Taros again for a great example of this, the defectors primarily came from the PDF of planets that the Tau invaded. Guard equipment got handed over to them and the Guardsmen themselves usually ended up executed/worked to death because the defectors felt the need to "prove themselves" to their new overlords.

That time, yeah. There are other campaigns, however.

Kanluwen wrote:

And if that's the case well, then you might as well just field the Renegades & Heretics list from FW.

Sure, except they're Chaos.

M.

**BoomWolf**

Or, yaknow, we can get a subset faction that incorporates a bit of tau into AM to create gu'vesa as a separate force, much like renegades and GSC are separate forces.

**Galas**

No, thanks. Now everyone wants to have Imperial Guard options? Gue'Vesa should have their own equipement and their own options. Theres no reason for a Gue'Vesa force to use Imperial Guard equipement.

And to be honest I prefer expanded Vespids, Kroots and Demiurg before any kind of Human Auxiliaries.