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I played a semi-optimized 2000pts pseudo-Primaris list the other day. I was running this:
Battalion + Vanguard
Calgar
Primaris Lieutenant
Primaris Librarian - Relic

10 Assault Intercessors
5 Scouts - SB, HB
5 Scouts - SB, HB

Venerable Dread - TLC, ML
Redemptor Dread - dual Onslaught
Primaris Ancient - Relic

3 Tarantulas - THB
3 Tarantulas - THB

6 Assault Hellblasters
Vindicator Laser Destroyer

His list:
Brigade
Swarmlord
Hive Tyrant - Wings, 24 6/0/1 shots, -1hit Relic
Malanthrope

20 Genestealers - 5 Acid Maws
20 Genestealers - 5 Acid Maws
30 Termagaunts - At least 15 had 3 shots
3 Rippers
3 Rippers
3 Rippers

Pyrovore
Lictor
6 Hive Guard - Harpoons

Mucolid Spore
Mucolid Spore
Mucolid Spore

Trygon
Biovore
Biovore

It was.. simple, to be fair. Maybe it is the inherite toughness of Primaris that made them weather the blow, but the secret was blocking his Deep Strike avenues. Scouts and Tarantulas denied every possible spot. In the end, the Trygon and the Gaunts had to arrive some distance off and were of no consequence. 20 Stealers arrived with the Lictor (Stratagem) and moved twice. Those arrived in a spot most suitable, but that was right at the Redemptor with Might of Heroes on him. The other 20 GS got there with the mobility Kronos gives you with the Stratagem and better run roll. However, they failed to damage the Redemptor in any significant way and only killed a few Scouts and Intercessors. The echo after his charge was devastating, especially with the UM CT.

Scouts are invaluable tools against Alpha Legion, Raven Guard, Eldar Webway and Tyranid lists. I'd bring 10-15 dudes in every game, with at least one HB and maybe a ML for the Stratagem.

 Arachnofiend wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

CovenantGuardian wrote:
As a Tyranid player, I will give you the key to winning . It's so obvious that I'm surprised none has said it yet.

You just need flyers, this tyranid list is very melee heavy. A couple of flyers would crush this list. Tyrannofex only has bs 4+, would be hitting on 5s , not great.

I would be careful, it's still powerful enough to destroy all ground presence out from underneath a Stormraven, thus ending the game.

You could always take the cheesy route and use the stormravens to screen for your units on turn one. Can't charge the fliers but can't reach what's behind them because of their bases, it shuts off an assault-based alpha strike entirely.

your opponent can just hold their Genestealer and Trygon till 2nd turn. When your Stormraven cannot stay in the same position while flying.

Neophyte2012 wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

CovenantGuardian wrote:
As a Tyranid player, I will give you the key to winning . It's so obvious that I'm surprised none has said it yet.

You just need flyers, this tyranid list is very melee heavy. A couple of flyers would crush this list. Tyrannofex only has bs 4+, would be hitting on 5s , not great.

I would be careful, it's still powerful enough to destroy all ground presence out from underneath a Stormraven, thus ending the game.

You could always take the cheesy route and use the stormravens to screen for your units on turn one. Can't charge the fliers but can't reach what's behind them because of their bases, it shuts off an assault-based alpha strike entirely.

your opponent can just hold their Genestealer and Trygon till 2nd turn. When your Stormraven cannot stay in the same position while flying.

At least that gives you turn to blast away at swarmlord etc. Things are scarier when all come at once rather than in waves.

 koooaei wrote:
You have an option to cluster in diffterrain so that he will need a 11' charge which is around 16% with re-rolls. Not great odds. So you'll have at least an extra turn to shoot your bolters and heavy bolters at genestealers and lc+multimeltas at trygons.
If you're using multi-level ruins you can even ignore his big bugs cause they can't charge 2-d floor. Small elite armies have a lot of advantages when it comes to positioning. Use them.

The rules don't work like that any more. There is no general -2" to your charge roll for assaulting into terrain. There are a couple of pieces of terrain where it still applies but I don't think you can rely on having access to them.

Screening is your friend here, as others have said. Some Scouts in place of the Tacticals and maybe a Razorback or two is what you need to protect your important units.

Looking at the List in the op, I can't really see it doing very well. It doesn't have much movement, no close combat and no vehicles of any kind. It's not well balances or rounded.
Orks would eat this up fairly quickly.

I'd recommend some scouts to create defensive bubbles and some kind of vehicle for a high toughness high wounds threat. This can be used to stump weak models, then back out of combat so they can be gunned down. Or as a strong counter assault. The list look like it wants to win by kill points and not objectives. The lack of ability to gain far objectives is going to be as big a problem as early close combat.
As far as I can tell.
The only other thing I'd think about is deploying the army in a way to maximize it's use. but that depends on terrain and deployment maps.

I'd recommend a Razorback, Dreadnought and some scouts or other infiltrating unit. You might consider at least one flyer as well. Not sure that would fit into your selected points.

Try this:
Lias
Captain
Leutenant

Standard
10 stern guard
5 vanguard

5 marines missile
5 marines missile
5 Bolter scouts
5 Bolter scouts
5 snipers
5 snipers

5 assault marine 3 plasma pistols
3 scout bikes
3 scout bikes

5 Devs 4 las cannon
5 devs 4 hev bolters
5 devs 4 multi melta

Drop pod

__
Plenty of dakka, deepstrike.alpha and beta capability.

3 10 man tactical marines isn't going to beat much man. Just being real with you.

You are taking an insane amount of anti-tank. He has no tanks. Naturally, you lose.

1. Scouts will prevent deep strike charges, or deep strike mid-range shooting.

2. Every space marine list uses razorbacks with twin assault cannons for a reason.

3. Build more of a take all comers list. You don't need that much anti-tank.

4. Bring a flyer. Their big bases make assault positioning difficult.


Once you kill the genestealers he has nothing. T4 5++ isn't super hard to bring down. You just have a ton of overkill in this list.

Neophyte2012 wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

CovenantGuardian wrote:
As a Tyranid player, I will give you the key to winning . It's so obvious that I'm surprised none has said it yet.

You just need flyers, this tyranid list is very melee heavy. A couple of flyers would crush this list. Tyrannofex only has bs 4+, would be hitting on 5s , not great.

I would be careful, it's still powerful enough to destroy all ground presence out from underneath a Stormraven, thus ending the game.

You could always take the cheesy route and use the stormravens to screen for your units on turn one. Can't charge the fliers but can't reach what's behind them because of their bases, it shuts off an assault-based alpha strike entirely.

your opponent can just hold their Genestealer and Trygon till 2nd turn. When your Stormraven cannot stay in the same position while flying.

Turning an alpha strike list into a beta strike is essentially mission accomplished. You get a full turn to unload into the Swarmlord without the threat of the Genestealers.

Neophyte2012 wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

CovenantGuardian wrote:
As a Tyranid player, I will give you the key to winning . It's so obvious that I'm surprised none has said it yet.

You just need flyers, this tyranid list is very melee heavy. A couple of flyers would crush this list. Tyrannofex only has bs 4+, would be hitting on 5s , not great.

I would be careful, it's still powerful enough to destroy all ground presence out from underneath a Stormraven, thus ending the game.

You could always take the cheesy route and use the stormravens to screen for your units on turn one. Can't charge the fliers but can't reach what's behind them because of their bases, it shuts off an assault-based alpha strike entirely.

your opponent can just hold their Genestealer and Trygon till 2nd turn. When your Stormraven cannot stay in the same position while flying.

Which allows 2000 pts to obliterate a Swarmlord, Tyrannofex and a unit of Genestealers. T2, soak up any charges by feeding some combat squaded tac marines, fall back any survivors and then pick them apart a unit at a time.

Hi Valkyrie,

Raptors (Second Founding of Raven Guard) 1500pts

Been awhile, but I think they are an ambush style chapter focusing on concealment and sabotage (like jacked up Catachans of old) and a willingness to survive over ‘die for the Emperor’.
I notice you have no vehicles (I gather want to keep to that theme?).

This is what I would change while keeping to the aesthetic of the Raptors Chapter and stay within your models posted. Scouts would be wicked for screening etc (they fit totally in with the Raptors theme). However, in case you don’t have any (or many other Space Marine models, or models ready for a while etc).
I have posted how I would change it for your enemy (nids) and have posted how I would deploy, over in detachments:

Castle (Draw fire): Troops screen, Lieutenant near Devs etc, Librarian wherever think need.
Goal: To draw out all their forces, whittle down the numbers.

HQ
Librarian
Lieutenant

TS (screening, watching to cover all frontal 9" deployment pockets)
5x Tactical Marines: 4x Boltguns, Serg (Boltgun & Chainsword)
5x Tactical Marines: 4x Boltguns, Serg (Boltgun & Chainsword)
5x Tactical Marines: 4x Boltguns, Serg (Boltgun & Chainsword)

HS (Deployed at back 8” from screen, covering back field deployment pockets)
5x Devestators: 2x Heavy bolters, 1x Missile launcher, 1x Boltgun, Serg (Boltgun & Chainsword)
5x Devestators: 2x Heavy bolters, 1x Missile launcher, 1x Boltgun, Serg (Boltgun & Chainsword)
5x Devestators: 2x Missile launchers, 2x Boltguns, Cherub, Serg (Boltgun & Chainsword)

Master of Ambush attack force: Lias and the Devs deploy together, the tac deploy in front of Lias and Devs to support/screen for their ambush (That means Lias and Devs are more than 9” away from enemy, but you don’t want to be in combat anyway). I would deploy these on turn 2, or after a majority of his force is deployed/revealed etc.
Goal: take out the Tyrannofex (if unsupported) or A Big Nid etc (depends where they are) and split the enemy force (so at a different vector) to give your units more time to shoot and fracture his assault push. Moreover, depends on mission etc

HQ
Lias Issodon

TS (screening)
5x Tactical Marines: 4x Boltguns, Serg (Boltgun & Chainsword)

HS
5x Devestators: 2x Muti-meltas, 2x Boltgun, Serg (Combi-plasma & Chainsword)
5x Devestators: 2x Muti-meltas, 2x Boltgun, Serg (Combi-plasma & Chainsword)


That leaves about 300points to spend on multiple options: upgrades, bigger units, a hit/melee squad, improve your Castle offensive power and survive ability, improve your Master of Ambush damage capabilities etc.

It all depends on models you have to play with now. I just did some suggestions with models you have posted.

SC

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:


My lists are all "Take all Comers". And they work quite well, all things considered, at taking all comers.

Yes, but what armies do you play? Try to play TAC lists with mid-bottom tiers.

Orks can't have a TAC built for example, they must go with the rock-paper-scissor approach. They can bring lots of T8 or lots of T4. So against lists with massive anti tank weapons they may even be competitive with a green tide. But other lists with massive anti infantry tools slauhgter a green tide quite efficiently. An ork list with mixed elements is going to lose against any decent list, and I'm not even considering tournament ones.

In my meta the TAC approach never existed, 40k is more about the miniatures and the hobby part and the meta is a very firendly one. Which doesn't mean that players bring fluffy lists, actually it's even a semi-competitive meta, but we try to change our lists (AKA tailoring) a little bit in order to have a fair game. No one has fun in a 2-3 turns game, not even the winning player.

 Blackie wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:


My lists are all "Take all Comers". And they work quite well, all things considered, at taking all comers.

Yes, but what armies do you play? Try to play TAC lists with mid-bottom tiers.

Orks can't have a TAC built for example, they must go with the rock-paper-scissor approach. They can bring lots of T8 or lots of T4. So against lists with massive anti tank weapons they may even be competitive with a green tide. But other lists with massive anti infantry tools slauhgter a green tide quite efficiently. An ork list with mixed elements is going to lose against any decent list, and I'm not even considering tournament ones.

In my meta the TAC approach never existed, 40k is more about the miniatures and the hobby part and the meta is a very firendly one. Which doesn't mean that players bring fluffy lists, actually it's even a semi-competitive meta, but we try to change our lists (AKA tailoring) a little bit in order to have a fair game. No one has fun in a 2-3 turns game, not even the winning player.

Sisters of Battle. There's not a lot of list tailoring to be done when you don't have options.

Take all Comers does not mean presenting a variety of different targets to the enemy, TAC means that no matter the foe, you're equipped with an adequate strategic and tactical answer.

Orks can definitely be take-all-comers. My friend's Ork lists did very well. It hasn't held up well as everybody gets their codecies, but that's to be somewhat expected. The same goes for mine, really.



Anyway, back to tailoring Space Marines to beat Tyranids Deep Strike, having a screening perimeter is really key. Almost all of his strength is in melee, and while it's pretty dangerous melee, if you can keep it away from you you're golden. Right now, the premier means of doing so would be with Scouts, and having many small units. You also don't want to make yourself vulnerable to having key unit eliminated, so incorporating some variety of redundancy is key.

The original list is a bit heavy on inefficient antitank weapons, and the 10-man tactical squads are definitely something I'd avoid. 5-man tactical is good, 10-man, not so much. Airpower is something to look into because the enemy list has very poor AA, but be careful because he may just kill off all the ground units and ignore the plane. I do like to err on the side of more antitank than less for TAC lists, but in this specific tailored case you're definitely going to want to be fielding more anti-horde firepower. Space Marines do not intrinsically have good efficient anti-horde power, but babysitting the stuff you have with lieutenants and captains can allow you to buff up your anti-infantry output to acceptable level while still being able to shift over and support your AT elements when needed.

As far as options to get a bit more anti-horde output, there's Assault Cannon Razorbacks, Stormravens, and Repulsors. From Forgeworld, there's the Sicarn Punisher and Leviathan Dreadnought, both of which are fairly proficient at chewing up hordes. You can also look into the Fire Raptor as a flying option.

As far as options to push back the enemy charge, Scouts and Tarantulas are both good options.

As I said, I'd ditch the Multi-Meltas for longer-ranged options, and make a point to wreck the Tyrannofex quickly. Some clever maneuvering and position will also limit his options for charges, which is important, since you want to offer him poor units and units that have done their job and want yo keep your heavy hitters safe. I think I see what you're going for with Issodon, and it is definitely possible to leverage his ability to pretty powerful effect, but the Tyranids are going to be pretty quickly making a lot of the board a no-go region for you. I might be able to think something up if I knew how many points were being played.

Positioning is everything against that stuff, and I'd be prepared to lose 1 or 2 units on turn 1 charges. Target is priority is second.

Make those heavy bolters last, you'll need em. I'd drop those multi-meltas too.