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Made in de
Raging-on-the-Inside Blood Angel Sergeant





Germany

Only 24" ? What a noob

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/744106.page

Ok, they cant charge after moving 66", but its ridiculous thats its even possible.
   
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Warp-Screaming Noise Marine





Sounds fluffy to me.

GW said "Forge the Narrative". This means "we are too lazy to write a comprehensive and balanced rule set, just make something up to plug the gaps" - Ch 4, Page 13387 of the Lexicanus Bullshitticus Translatorum. 
   
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Raging-on-the-Inside Blood Angel Sergeant





Germany

Its fluffy that genestealers can outrun a supersonic aircraft ?
   
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Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel






honestly glad they have the option, assault armies should be booking it like this already. most armies that it should matter against ignore it with fall back though as guard players will screen important stuff with cheap bodies then either die or fall back and shoot them to pieces. personally I think fall back should have been removed as it mostly just makes shooting armies even better in a 3rd edition in a row that shooting is king.

I hope Ghazz can do something similar or another character can duplicate this, might be a boss zag thing ordering them to keep moving up.

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p5freak wrote:
Its fluffy that genestealers can outrun a supersonic aircraft ?


Is it fluffy that a supersonic aircraft moves as slow as a genestealer. or heck even half the speed of a bike. (or horse?)

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.

Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!

 
   
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p5freak wrote:
Its fluffy that genestealers can outrun a supersonic aircraft ?
Tyranid Evolution is just that good.
   
Made in de
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Supersonic speed is at least 1235 km/h, supersonic planes need to move at least 20".

Therefore orks boyz moving 5" are actually moving at 308.75 km/h or 191.85 miles per hour. And da red 'uns even go fasta.


Drager wrote:
I'd heard there would be a clatter, then perhaps a hiss, but that's not what it's like. We'd all been told that these things lurked in vents and crevices, that they could sneak up on a man no matter how alert, but that just wasn't what happened. We saw them coming, well, we heard them first, an ear-splitting boom as they accelerated across the plain. They must have been 2 miles away when we heard the crack, but we barely had time to lift our weapons before they were on us and then... past us. Running faster than I could follow. They didn't attack, didn't even try and it was then, as the whole platoon stared after them that a dread crept through me and I turned to see that which they had been running from.

-Infantryman Collins, 5th Umbra Rifles
 
   
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Falls Church, VA

This reminds me of a thread I once read about Starcraft (the first one & Brood War) where they took the little red lasers that a Battlecruiser fired, assumed they were traveling at the speed of light (reasonable, of course, they're lasers) and compared the time it took the little red blips to travel the length of a standing Marine. Therefore, you could deduce how tall a Star Craft Marine was. I think it was like, orders of magnitude taller than the tallest building on earth today.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/20 14:05:05


Some people say they know no fear. What they mean is that they have encountered and conquered it. I, on the other hand, truly know no fear. It is as alien to me as doubt, rage, or mercy.

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Stubborn White Lion





West Lafayette, IN

...




Wow.


So this is basically what 40K is devolving into? Stand models, first round Yahtzee to decide the game. Yeah, my original intention was to keep current rules for my Crimson Fists so I could play modern gaming while focusing everything else on my 3rd Edition club. That changes now. I'm not bothering with Alpha Strike, I have no interest.

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Renegade Inquisitor with a Bound Daemon





Tied and gagged in the back of your car

It's also worth noting that this is a carry over from AoS, which manages to be a much more tactically flexible and engaging game past turn 2 because long range options end up being the exception (and a very powerful one, for that reason), rather than the rule. The Sigmar-like mechanics start to become very heavily weighted once you have the ability to pump out so much firepower without having to interact with your opponents on a more closely knit, tactical level.
   
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 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
p5freak wrote:
Its fluffy that genestealers can outrun a supersonic aircraft ?
Tyranid Evolution is just that good.


Who said they are flying supersonic? Why cant they be floating around the battle field. Also RWJF can fly literally from 1 corner to the other corner (90").


Also, take flamers... yes everyone hates them, but... they help slow down turn 1 charges if you are worried about that. OR... take more terrain.

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 Just Tony wrote:
...




Wow.


So this is basically what 40K is devolving into? Stand models, first round Yahtzee to decide the game. Yeah, my original intention was to keep current rules for my Crimson Fists so I could play modern gaming while focusing everything else on my 3rd Edition club. That changes now. I'm not bothering with Alpha Strike, I have no interest.


Yep pretty much. Both AOS and 40k are like this. Its very close to deck building games now as opposed to tactical wargames where you have to maneuver. You pretty much listbuild (deckbuild) your most efficient build and then point and pick your target (target priority) and roll a bunch of dice.

The games are often pretty much over by turn 2 or 3 (enough where you know who will win barring some really ludicrous luck). AOS can often carry past turn 3 due to it not having as many super long ranged missile attacks, but its not uncommon to see games end by around then.

This is also very appealing and making them a ton of money. And tournament players are happIER because games go faster. "Alpha Strike" is a great title for it lol.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/01/02 02:48:45


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Furious Fire Dragon





USA

p5freak wrote:
Its fluffy that genestealers can outrun a supersonic aircraft ?


even better they can out run almost every gun in the game baring a very sparse few.

 KingCorpus wrote:
If you are amazed with how good Eldar are, maybe space marines aren't the army for you. Heretic.
 
   
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 auticus wrote:
 Just Tony wrote:
...




Wow.


So this is basically what 40K is devolving into? Stand models, first round Yahtzee to decide the game. Yeah, my original intention was to keep current rules for my Crimson Fists so I could play modern gaming while focusing everything else on my 3rd Edition club. That changes now. I'm not bothering with Alpha Strike, I have no interest.


Yep pretty much. Both AOS and 40k are like this. Its very close to deck building games now as opposed to tactical wargames where you have to maneuver. You pretty much listbuild (deckbuild) your most efficient build and then point and pick your target (target priority) and roll a bunch of dice.

The games are often pretty much over by turn 2 or 3 (enough where you know who will win barring some really ludicrous luck). AOS can often carry past turn 3 due to it not having as many super long ranged missile attacks, but its not uncommon to see games end by around then.

This is also very appealing and making them a ton of money. And tournament players are happIER because games go faster.


Use more terrain.

40k has never higlighted maneuvering tactics if you're just lining up models on either side of the table and rolling dice. You are expected to put at least SOME effort into making an interesting game of it.

I've seen tables of "slophammer" since I started in 2nd.

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the_scotsman wrote:
 Kap'n Krump wrote:
As an ork,

Orks don't get special rules that help us succeed, we get special rules that make us fail in funny ways so our opponent can laugh at us.
Just like the fluff.

"They said to forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be re-learned? They said to forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war? Hold my drink." - Roboute Guilliman, 999.M41 
   
Made in it
Longtime Dakkanaut




The Kraken stealer shock is a common build that right now is highly effective at countering gun lines, but as you could notice, if it meets a dedicated melee list it starts having a lot of problems.
   
Made in de
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





 BlaxicanX wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
 Kap'n Krump wrote:
As an ork,

Orks don't get special rules that help us succeed, we get special rules that make us fail in funny ways so our opponent can laugh at us.
Just like the fluff.


Like the fluff where orks killed every single person in Hive Hades except Grimaldus?

Drager wrote:
I'd heard there would be a clatter, then perhaps a hiss, but that's not what it's like. We'd all been told that these things lurked in vents and crevices, that they could sneak up on a man no matter how alert, but that just wasn't what happened. We saw them coming, well, we heard them first, an ear-splitting boom as they accelerated across the plain. They must have been 2 miles away when we heard the crack, but we barely had time to lift our weapons before they were on us and then... past us. Running faster than I could follow. They didn't attack, didn't even try and it was then, as the whole platoon stared after them that a dread crept through me and I turned to see that which they had been running from.

-Infantryman Collins, 5th Umbra Rifles
 
   
Made in fi
Fixture of Dakka





 Insectum7 wrote:
 auticus wrote:
 Just Tony wrote:
...




Wow.


So this is basically what 40K is devolving into? Stand models, first round Yahtzee to decide the game. Yeah, my original intention was to keep current rules for my Crimson Fists so I could play modern gaming while focusing everything else on my 3rd Edition club. That changes now. I'm not bothering with Alpha Strike, I have no interest.


Yep pretty much. Both AOS and 40k are like this. Its very close to deck building games now as opposed to tactical wargames where you have to maneuver. You pretty much listbuild (deckbuild) your most efficient build and then point and pick your target (target priority) and roll a bunch of dice.

The games are often pretty much over by turn 2 or 3 (enough where you know who will win barring some really ludicrous luck). AOS can often carry past turn 3 due to it not having as many super long ranged missile attacks, but its not uncommon to see games end by around then.

This is also very appealing and making them a ton of money. And tournament players are happIER because games go faster.


Use more terrain.

40k has never higlighted maneuvering tactics if you're just lining up models on either side of the table and rolling dice. You are expected to put at least SOME effort into making an interesting game of it.

I've seen tables of "slophammer" since I started in 2nd.


Problem being 40k rules being so piss poor that any terrain except big windowless blocks are basically meaningless. Even official GW buildings are generally useless as they have windows and if you see even 1mm slice of enemy it's basically same as shooting at target in open. Especially any vehicle is screwed.

All the scatter terrain I have that works nicely as source of cover in HH is now just meaningless decoration. HH they provide nice cover save, 8th ed they look pretty on table.

”Buddhism doesn't tell you what is false and what is true but it encourages you to find out for yourself.” ~ Chogyam Trungpa ~ 
   
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Walls still count for movement tho, even with windows unless its a Large window you can fit through. Even just hills make it harder to move.

If you can to move up 3" over 5 and down 3" your adding 6" movement, if you have Walls where Jump units cant stand on and you place your models far enough behind while against the wall they cant get over the wall and you.

Terrain makes a large difference, unless you only have 3-4 small pieces that your not really using other than turn 1 LoS blocking.

Try using more and varied amounts of it.

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Except infantry just moves through without penalty. For others generally it's jump packs, flies or has enough combo's to move like 20" in turn anyway so slow down not enough to even prevent turn 1 charges(not to mention deep strikes etc). Walls generally are so thin you simply put the model on the other side. Unless you spend like premeasuring distances a lot on terrain deployment odds are it won't be on the precise ~0.5" margin to actually slow down model by not being able to put(not to mention wobbly model syndrome allows putitng model over the wall anyway).


”Buddhism doesn't tell you what is false and what is true but it encourages you to find out for yourself.” ~ Chogyam Trungpa ~ 
   
Made in us
Stubborn White Lion





West Lafayette, IN

 auticus wrote:
 Just Tony wrote:
...




Wow.


So this is basically what 40K is devolving into? Stand models, first round Yahtzee to decide the game. Yeah, my original intention was to keep current rules for my Crimson Fists so I could play modern gaming while focusing everything else on my 3rd Edition club. That changes now. I'm not bothering with Alpha Strike, I have no interest.


Yep pretty much. Both AOS and 40k are like this. Its very close to deck building games now as opposed to tactical wargames where you have to maneuver. You pretty much listbuild (deckbuild) your most efficient build and then point and pick your target (target priority) and roll a bunch of dice.

The games are often pretty much over by turn 2 or 3 (enough where you know who will win barring some really ludicrous luck). AOS can often carry past turn 3 due to it not having as many super long ranged missile attacks, but its not uncommon to see games end by around then.

This is also very appealing and making them a ton of money. And tournament players are happIER because games go faster. "Alpha Strike" is a great title for it lol.


Of course they are happier, this is the kind of absurdness that 3rd Ed. mitigated. There wasn't an army out there that could table someone by turn 2, unless you had MASSIVE extenuating circumstances. (Blood Angels in a Cleanse mission come to mind) For the most part, I can't recall the last time I saw an army GET tabled in 3rd, except when both players made it clear it was last model standing, turn number be damned.


In a way, this is sort of cathartic for me. I don't have to stress about keeping current, and I can watch all the changes to fluff and rules from a sterile distance while I build armies for the older system.

www.classichammer.com

For 4-6th WFB, 2-5th 40k, and similar timeframe gaming 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






tneva82 wrote:
Except infantry just moves through without penalty. For others generally it's jump packs, flies or has enough combo's to move like 20" in turn anyway so slow down not enough to even prevent turn 1 charges(not to mention deep strikes etc). Walls generally are so thin you simply put the model on the other side. Unless you spend like premeasuring distances a lot on terrain deployment odds are it won't be on the precise ~0.5" margin to actually slow down model by not being able to put(not to mention wobbly model syndrome allows putitng model over the wall anyway).



Infantry doesnt move through walls, it literally says you have to move up them unless you have fly. It's not about the 0.5mm thickness its about stopping movements from things, you cant 100% everything, if you could no one would play Melee at all. But you can stop large units like 30 man Genestealers from turn 1 Move+move+charge.

Tho as an Ork player he might not want ot hide to hard b.c then it hurts his movement.

Edit for spelling.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/02 08:33:59


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 lolman1c wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
 Kap'n Krump wrote:
As an ork,


This is why this seems ridiculous. Orks don't get special rules that help us succeed, we get special rules that make us fail in funny ways so our opponent can laugh at us.



Every night I pray to Mork and Gork that we get just half of what the tyranids got.


Careful what you wish, you just might get it.

And then be sad that you only got half of what the Tyranids got.
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




Also keep in mind Nids will get nerfed, too.
   
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Huge Hierodule






 Amishprn86 wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Except infantry just moves through without penalty. For others generally it's jump packs, flies or has enough combo's to move like 20" in turn anyway so slow down not enough to even prevent turn 1 charges(not to mention deep strikes etc). Walls generally are so thin you simply put the model on the other side. Unless you spend like premeasuring distances a lot on terrain deployment odds are it won't be on the precise ~0.5" margin to actually slow down model by not being able to put(not to mention wobbly model syndrome allows putitng model over the wall anyway).



Infantry doesnt move through walls, it literally says you have to move up them unless you have fly. It's not about the 0.5mm thickness its about stopping movements from things, you cant 100% everything, if you could no one would play Melee at all. But you can stop large units like 30 man Genestealers from turn 1 Move+move+charge.

Tho as an Ork player he might not want ot hide to hard b.c then it hurts his movement.

Edit for spelling.


Infantry DO move through walls if your using anything but the most basic terrain rules.

Infantry are assumed to move through windows and doors and holes in the wall. They absolutely go through walls.

   
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 Lance845 wrote:
 Amishprn86 wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Except infantry just moves through without penalty. For others generally it's jump packs, flies or has enough combo's to move like 20" in turn anyway so slow down not enough to even prevent turn 1 charges(not to mention deep strikes etc). Walls generally are so thin you simply put the model on the other side. Unless you spend like premeasuring distances a lot on terrain deployment odds are it won't be on the precise ~0.5" margin to actually slow down model by not being able to put(not to mention wobbly model syndrome allows putitng model over the wall anyway).



Infantry doesnt move through walls, it literally says you have to move up them unless you have fly. It's not about the 0.5mm thickness its about stopping movements from things, you cant 100% everything, if you could no one would play Melee at all. But you can stop large units like 30 man Genestealers from turn 1 Move+move+charge.

Tho as an Ork player he might not want ot hide to hard b.c then it hurts his movement.

Edit for spelling.


Infantry DO move through walls if your using anything but the most basic terrain rules.

Infantry are assumed to move through windows and doors and holes in the wall. They absolutely go through walls.


I'm talking about buildings and hills not Ruins. Ruins have the rule that infantry ignore for climbing. Hills are treated like the battlefield and Buildings are just flat out obstacles.

If your playing every single building and hill as ruins then yeah its pointless other than +1 armor.

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The terrain rules of 8th edition are very simplistic and works poorly with GW's own ruin-style terrin sets.

A way of dealing with the terrain issue is to use the common tournament rule, that the ground floor of ruins blocks line of sight. Or simply put ruins on top of a 2-4" box or foam cutout. It is also helpful, if a bit unintuituve, to count most other terrain as being statues. That way infantry can get a cover-save by standing partially behind scenery rather than stading on top of it.

As for the Genestealer speed-assault, it is not really a TAC-build, more of a counter-meta list against certain gunlines. It is easily countered by melee, scouting chaff, deep-strike and so on.
   
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Krieg! What a hole...

 Jidmah wrote:
 BlaxicanX wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
 Kap'n Krump wrote:
As an ork,

Orks don't get special rules that help us succeed, we get special rules that make us fail in funny ways so our opponent can laugh at us.
Just like the fluff.


Like the fluff where orks killed every single person in Hive Hades except Grimaldus?


And Trooper Andrej, alongside other survivors.

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Savageconvoy wrote:
Snookie gives birth to Heavy Gun drone squad. Someone says they are overpowered. World ends.

 
   
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Martel732 wrote:
Also keep in mind Nids will get nerfed, too.


Will they? I can't think of any Nids stuff that is cheesy/OP/dominant to the point of nerfdom (with the changes to Smite, if they up the cost on Neurothropes, I will flip a table somewhere, mark my words)
   
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They could put a 15-18 point cost on the Monstrous Rending Claws, but apart from that i'm not seeing any candidates for a nerf.
   
 
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