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Made in au
Been Around the Block





 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I get the feeling that Reece and the rest of the crew at FLG have had access to both the codexes and the indexes for some time and they may either get the two confused or might not have even been told which was which by GW.

Perhaps a sign of things to come in the codex when it drops?

I agree that it is worrying that GW places so much on their opinion (that is undoubtedly coloured) and that there are no dedicated Ork players anymore in the rules team.


The other problem is that because Orks had been out of the competitive scene for so long prior to 8th, there simply weren't many Ork players at the tournament level, which means there wasn't much competitive feedback to give to GW. That's changed a bit in 8th, but as the CA changes show, they still don't really understand the issues. Take the Morkanaut for example; they still don't understand that its ranged loadout is still just not worth firing most of the time, and even with a KFF it's too fragile for the points. Yet they slung a points decrease onto its weapons, including the Kustom Mega Kannon, despite the KMK being undoubtedly the best Mek Gun option we have. Meanwhile the Bubblechucka and Traktor Kannon, both of which are hot garbage, don't get any changes at all.
   
Made in gb
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





 Glane wrote:
 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I get the feeling that Reece and the rest of the crew at FLG have had access to both the codexes and the indexes for some time and they may either get the two confused or might not have even been told which was which by GW.

Perhaps a sign of things to come in the codex when it drops?

I agree that it is worrying that GW places so much on their opinion (that is undoubtedly coloured) and that there are no dedicated Ork players anymore in the rules team.


The other problem is that because Orks had been out of the competitive scene for so long prior to 8th, there simply weren't many Ork players at the tournament level, which means there wasn't much competitive feedback to give to GW. That's changed a bit in 8th, but as the CA changes show, they still don't really understand the issues. Take the Morkanaut for example; they still don't understand that its ranged loadout is still just not worth firing most of the time, and even with a KFF it's too fragile for the points. Yet they slung a points decrease onto its weapons, including the Kustom Mega Kannon, despite the KMK being undoubtedly the best Mek Gun option we have. Meanwhile the Bubblechucka and Traktor Kannon, both of which are hot garbage, don't get any changes at all.


As much as I welcome the points decrease for a weapon that's (versus some -1 armies) 1/6 chance of hurting me or hitting and a 2/3 of doing nothing it also shows (similar to what you said) they don't understand the purpose of the mork! It has all this fancy unbelievably advanced tecknolgy and yet you're lucky if you do 1 or 2 points of damage a turn! It's not half bad if you charge him in but at that point you might as well use his points for 30-60 boyz and a kff mek (they would have double the use). If you look at how he plays in games like dawn of war (only seen videos never played the game myself) it's epic! It's like a Orky version of a tau japanese mech and fire huge blasts of high damage energy while skirting around and charging in for high impact damage! Why don't we have that?

The points changes in cA, in addition, were very disappointing. I know gw and they'll have just copy and pasted from codex with no intention of going back to edit after feedback so this just highlights how orks will get very minimal points reductions. As I have said before, I hink orks are way to expensive for no reason (our shooting for the most part is more expensive than most armies and yet is the most useless) but I wouldn't mind it staying the same as long as it is worth it! For the stompas points it should act like a titan and be able to do as much cc and range damage as any other titan! I've watched games where it has done almost nothing!
   
Made in de
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





 davou wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
 davou wrote:
Orks are a problem army, but those problems can be solved with some subtle changes, not sweeping enormous buffs.


I don't think subtle changes are enough, and I also don't think that sweeping enormous buffs will do it either.


Agree to disagree; I'd be very happy with the following changes

Allow ere'we'go to be one or both dice
DakkaDakkaDakka = 6's in shooting are hits no matter negative modifiers.
Ramshackle on a 4+ (or even 5+)
KFF works for units that are clipped
Add + 1 to move for green tide if under 20


This would only serve to make the green tide more powerful and all other army type still useless. It does nothing for dreadmob, kult of speed lists, battlewagon bash, kan walls, non-tide footsloggers or any of the other units without any clear use.
There is no easy way to fix the ork codex without making the green tide army that we have now ridiculous and everything else still worse than that.

Drager wrote:
I'd heard there would be a clatter, then perhaps a hiss, but that's not what it's like. We'd all been told that these things lurked in vents and crevices, that they could sneak up on a man no matter how alert, but that just wasn't what happened. We saw them coming, well, we heard them first, an ear-splitting boom as they accelerated across the plain. They must have been 2 miles away when we heard the crack, but we barely had time to lift our weapons before they were on us and then... past us. Running faster than I could follow. They didn't attack, didn't even try and it was then, as the whole platoon stared after them that a dread crept through me and I turned to see that which they had been running from.

-Infantryman Collins, 5th Umbra Rifles
 
   
Made in hu
Squishy Squig



Hungary

 adamsouza wrote:
8th Edition comes out.
Decides Ork Stompa rules look less than terrible.
Finally builds that Ork Stompa model I bought on release day, all those years ago.
Fields Ork Stompa.
Finds Ork Stompa's shooting phase practically useless.
Spends the rest of game charging and stomping.
Puts Ork Stompa back on the shelf.



I agree that on a competitive scene the Stompa does not seem legit. I will try one in a toned down narrative campaign, hope it will turn out to be great.

I am hoping that the codex will be similar to the one the Tyranids got, with Clans being a thing finally. Until then I try to enjoy the 'uphill' battles...

Planetary Invasion Campaign: https://aliensandheretics.wordpress.com/  
   
Made in fi
Fixture of Dakka





 lolman1c wrote:
For the stompas points it should act like a titan and be able to do as much cc and range damage as any other titan! I've watched games where it has done almost nothing!


Well obviously stompa shouldn't be nearly as good as imperial titan. It costs less than half the points than smallest imperial titan! So no it shouldn't do as much damage as any other titan(apart from ridiculousness of claiming it should do as much damage as any titan which incidentally includes warlord that costs like 4x and in future likely imperator which will be more like 10k) if it costs marketly less.

As it is stompa is one of the cheapest titan class walkers in the game.

“Nothing has a definite nature, so people cannot be purely evil. Even so-called evil people will aspire to follow a moral path when they feel a sense of community.” – Kukai

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tneva82 wrote:


As it is stompa is one of the cheapest titan class walkers in the game.


And it's 100 times worse than a baneblade or an imperial knight. Stompas should cost 450-500 points, and still they'd the suboptimal units.

Orks 9500
Space Wolves 6500
Drukhari 4500 
   
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 Blackie wrote:
tneva82 wrote:


As it is stompa is one of the cheapest titan class walkers in the game.


And it's 100 times worse than a baneblade or an imperial knight. Stompas should cost 450-500 points, and still they'd the suboptimal units.


Yeah but doesn't mean they should be as powerful as warhounds(smallest imperial titan) that costs more than twice as much. As much as lolman might want orks to be broken beyond belief to compensate for them being suboptimal(attitude which has zero connection with idea of having balanced game) doesn't make you should have equally powerful models for half the price.

Or if it's as killy it needs to be very easy to destroy to compensate but funny that survivability is actually the arch-typical orky trait for their warmachines...Not raw killyness but being god damn tough to remove.

(and besides stompa isn't even supposed to be titan equilavent but oversized land raider equilavent in terms of survivability, firepower etc. GW sized up too much so guess knight level is more appropriate but knights are waaaay short of titan levels as well)

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/01/03 09:07:54


“Nothing has a definite nature, so people cannot be purely evil. Even so-called evil people will aspire to follow a moral path when they feel a sense of community.” – Kukai

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tneva82 wrote:
Yeah but doesn't mean they should be as powerful as warhounds(smallest imperial titan) that costs more than twice as much. As much as lolman might want orks to be broken beyond belief to compensate for them being suboptimal(attitude which has zero connection with idea of having balanced game) doesn't make you should have equally powerful models for half the price.

Or if it's as killy it needs to be very easy to destroy to compensate but funny that survivability is actually the arch-typical orky trait for their warmachines...Not raw killyness but being god damn tough to remove.

(and besides stompa isn't even supposed to be titan equilavent but oversized land raider equilavent in terms of survivability, firepower etc. GW sized up too much so guess knight level is more appropriate but knights are waaaay short of titan levels as well)


I don't think you understand just how bad a unit the Stompa is. It is objectively one of (if not the) the worst units point for point in the game. GWs pricing of the model is insulting, honestly.

Have people seen the stuff daemons are rumoured to be getting? 12" pistol flamers with 3 (not D3) autohits. 1 CP to DS any unit with power level 8 or less, 2 CP to DS any unit above that power level. Brims still 3 ppm with T3 and 6++ now apparently. There seems to be a way to add a dice to charge range to make it 3d6 rather than 2d6. People aren't happy in that thread but the leaks sound extremely powerful to me.

The age of Brimstone spam might be gone but the age of the Bloodletter bomb is on the rise. We're gonna have even less reason to take those big expensive units I feel - Battlewagons, Mork/Gorkanauts etc will be focused immediately and we have little to stop it.

I really hope we get more deployment options and other increases to our durability.
   
Made in fi
Fixture of Dakka





 An Actual Englishman wrote:

I don't think you understand just how bad a unit the Stompa is. It is objectively one of (if not the) the worst units point for point in the game. GWs pricing of the model is insulting, honestly.


I know it's bad but does that mean it should be EQUAL to 2000 pts warhound(titan) when it costs less than 1000?

Lolman suggest so. I disagree. No <1000 pts model should be equal to 2000 pts unit. That or warhound(and consequently other titans) needs to drop down a LOT.

You really think making stompa EQUAL to warhound in killyness is fair for the points? WARHOUND COSTS MORE THAN TWICE AS MUCH! How soft target stompa needs to be then for that to be fair? And orks aren't supposed to be glass hammers. Again fluffwise their big walkers have always been known for taking ungodly amount of firepower to take down compared to imperial titans. NOT for being super killyness.

And getting 2000 pts equilavent for <1000 pts is stupid idea from the get go. If you are priced half of other unit shouldn't your abilities to be about half rather than equal? Pretty basic balancing 101. What orks have that would justify getting that big point drop?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/03 09:37:48


“Nothing has a definite nature, so people cannot be purely evil. Even so-called evil people will aspire to follow a moral path when they feel a sense of community.” – Kukai

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tneva82 wrote:
 An Actual Englishman wrote:

I don't think you understand just how bad a unit the Stompa is. It is objectively one of (if not the) the worst units point for point in the game. GWs pricing of the model is insulting, honestly.


I know it's bad but does that mean it should be EQUAL to 2000 pts warhound(titan) when it costs less than 1000?

Lolman suggest so. I disagree. No <1000 pts model should be equal to 2000 pts unit. That or warhound(and consequently other titans) needs to drop down a LOT.

You really think making stompa EQUAL to warhound in killyness is fair for the points? WARHOUND COSTS MORE THAN TWICE AS MUCH! How soft target stompa needs to be then for that to be fair? And orks aren't supposed to be glass hammers. Again fluffwise their big walkers have always been known for taking ungodly amount of firepower to take down compared to imperial titans. NOT for being super killyness.

And getting 2000 pts equilavent for <1000 pts is stupid idea from the get go. If you are priced half of other unit shouldn't your abilities to be about half rather than equal? Pretty basic balancing 101. What orks have that would justify getting that big point drop?


I believe he was referring to "Titanic" archetype rather than an actual Titan so I don't think that's exactly what he was suggesting. If he was then you are correct.

Nobody is trying to argue that a 1k model should act as a 2k model. But it doesn't. It doesn't act as well as a 400 pt model. Do you follow? It's point cost is not justified in either it's damage output or it's durability. Take your fluff BS elsewhere too, fluff =/= balance and should never, ever factor in to it.
   
Made in fi
Fixture of Dakka





 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Nobody is trying to argue that a 1k model should act as a 2k model. But it doesn't. It doesn't act as well as a 400 pt model. Do you follow? It's point cost is not justified in either it's damage output or it's durability. Take your fluff BS elsewhere too, fluff =/= balance and should never, ever factor in to it.


But he's asking for ridiculous amount.

And btw fluff is basically reason 40k is even alive still and the funny thing is THEY DON'T HAVE TO BE SEPARATE! Only lazy newbie game designers in GW studio do not bother to do fluffy and balanced rules. You CAN combine them. It IS possible to have ork giant walkers that are way more durable than imperial equilavents, not as killy(especially in guns) and is balanced.

GW doesn't do it because their developers are junk in terms of ability. If GW would hire good designer they could do that. There's NO REASON WHATSEOVER to ignore fluff. If you want to ignore fluff marines could be T1 S1 WS6+ BS6+ no save. It's only fluff. It can be balanced with that stat as well. And let's make ork boyz S10 T10 guys. That can be balanced as well if we ignore fluff. But you know what's even better? Fluffy balanced rules. Which is 100% possible. There's no piece whatsoever in fluff you actually NEED to really ignore to make balanced game. You know there is after all these things called points to sort it out. Guns more worth than survivability? Ok then ork walker costs less than more gunny less survivable imperial walker. Problem solved.

"it's fluff. doens't matter" is just lazy excuse.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/01/03 09:55:18


“Nothing has a definite nature, so people cannot be purely evil. Even so-called evil people will aspire to follow a moral path when they feel a sense of community.” – Kukai

8100 pts
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Made in gb
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Yes, I think you misunderstood me. Firstly, I was referring to pre CA points costs when it comes to all titans like knights, baneblades and warhound... Now when I mean it should be just as killy I mean it should be worth its points. A warhound in a normal game is an unstoppable monster hence why it was worth the points and is now 2k points. The stompa is basically the same points cost as an entire small teir game list and yet feels less effective than 200pts of boyz.

I in no way want orks to be broken so don't take my words and twist them! The game would not be fun if I didn't have to out effort in to win! (I have a marine army and don't and never will own girlyman for example).

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/01/03 10:04:31


 
   
Made in it
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Italy

I'd love a 2000 points stompa which is also as killy as a titan. In fact things like the stompa should never appear in games smaller than 5000 points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
tneva82 wrote:


It IS possible to have ork giant walkers that are way more durable than imperial equilavents, not as killy(especially in guns) and is balanced.



Why not? Orks weapons work only because ork believe they do. And they have a lot of faith in their biggest walker IMHO the opposite of what you said may have more sense, orks' stuff should never be extremely resilient since they're made from junk, but there's some magic surrounding their weapons that they can actually have the killiest gun in the galaxy What a big mek can create has no limits. The SAG is a perfect example of that, it's a weapon for an infantry model that can be S10+ and AP-5.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/01/03 10:23:18


Orks 9500
Space Wolves 6500
Drukhari 4500 
   
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 Jidmah wrote:
 davou wrote:

Allow ere'we'go to be one or both dice
DakkaDakkaDakka = 6's in shooting are hits no matter negative modifiers.
Ramshackle on a 4+ (or even 5+)
KFF works for units that are clipped
Add + 1 to move for green tide if under 20


This would only serve to make the green tide more powerful and all other army type still useless.


Did you read it, because I strongly disagree.

ERJAK wrote:


The fluff is like ketchup and mustard on a burger. Yes it's desirable, yes it makes things better, but no it doesn't fundamentally change what you're eating and no you shouldn't just drown the whole meal in it.

 
   
Made in us
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Denver, Colorado

 Glane wrote:


Ork section starts at 26:00

Comments on Ork Walkers start at 33:37

Warning: If you're an Ork player you may feel unreasonable amounts of rage watching this video.


Thanks for that. I honestly feel a lot of that was mostly early 8th optimism, but the stompa comments were especially amusing. I honestly don't see how anyone could have made an in-depth analysis of a stompa and concluded that they were 'worth every point.' Then again, maybe he was just reading the indexes as they came, and didn't have time for a good look.

Then again once more, allegedly the FLG folks were the beta testers for this edition, so a lot of this shouldn't have been a surprise......

On the topic of stompas - have codex stompas ever been good? I don't recall them in 5th, they were mediocre in 6th, and the only stompa anyone ever took in 7th was buzzgobs, which honestly wasn't a very good unit, but it was cheap for what you got. Kustom stompas were pretty good, honestly, but no longer.

But again, codex stompas - have they ever been good?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/03 16:00:03


"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.". Words to live by, especially for ork players waiting for a new codex.  
   
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Mutilatin' Mad Dok




Alaska

I would guess that a Warhound could take on 5-6 Stompas with the current points costs and rules, but a lot of that has to do with Macro which I think isn't a great rule.

The Stompa is extra sad because not only is it too expensive for regular games but it is also so incredibly outclassed by other big walkers that it is also basically useless in Apocalypse except as a laugh.

I wish we had good Kustom Stompa rules again.

YELL REAL LOUD AN' CARRY A BIG CHOPPA! 
   
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United States

 Kap'n Krump wrote:
 Glane wrote:


Ork section starts at 26:00

Comments on Ork Walkers start at 33:37

Warning: If you're an Ork player you may feel unreasonable amounts of rage watching this video.


Thanks for that. I honestly feel a lot of that was mostly early 8th optimism, but the stompa comments were especially amusing. I honestly don't see how anyone could have made an in-depth analysis of a stompa and concluded that they were 'worth every point.' Then again, maybe he was just reading the indexes as they came, and didn't have time for a good look.

Then again once more, allegedly the FLG folks were the beta testers for this edition, so a lot of this shouldn't have been a surprise......

On the topic of stompas - have codex stompas ever been good? I don't recall them in 5th, they were mediocre in 6th, and the only stompa anyone ever took in 7th was buzzgobs, which honestly wasn't a very good unit, but it was cheap for what you got. Kustom stompas were pretty good, honestly, but no longer.

But again, codex stompas - have they ever been good?


I don't play in a super competitive meta, so take this as you will. I had decent success with the codex stompa in 7th. The supa-gatler was pretty swingy, but the deffkannon and supa-rokkets did good work for me. It also soaked a ton of fire that would have popped my dread and wagons.

Orkz is never beaten in battle. If we win, we win. If we did, we did fighting so it don't count. If we legz it, we just come back for annuver go, see? 
   
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Denver, Colorado

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:

I wish we had good Kustom Stompa rules again.


I was so excited in the FW index that there was a kustom stompa option, but then I read it and realized that basically none of the previous options were available. In fact, I don't know why they even called it a kustom stompa, as it's clearly a big mek stompa.

I would be hype as feth to see another kustom stompa builder. Well, provided the points were reasonable, I suppose.

GW is so inconsistent with what they allow to exist based on what models they have. They axed pretty much all kustom stompa options, but allowed supa skorchas.

Come to think of it, in the base index, big meks on bikes, painboy on bikes, and technically warbossess in mega armor aren't even actual models, but have rules.

"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.". Words to live by, especially for ork players waiting for a new codex.  
   
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 Kap'n Krump wrote:
I was so excited in the FW index that there was a kustom stompa option, but then I read it and realized that basically none of the previous options were available. In fact, I don't know why they even called it a kustom stompa, as it's clearly a big mek stompa.

I would be hype as feth to see another kustom stompa builder. Well, provided the points were reasonable, I suppose.

GW is so inconsistent with what they allow to exist based on what models they have. They axed pretty much all kustom stompa options, but allowed supa skorchas.

Come to think of it, in the base index, big meks on bikes, painboy on bikes, and technically warbossess in mega armor aren't even actual models, but have rules.

Yeah, the old Kustom Stompa rules were really great. Even if not all builds were good, it was probably the most customizable and flavorful unit in the game. If I remember correctly the Kustom Stompa rules covered about half a dozen pages and it could go from a stripped down Klaw Stompa for less than 500 points to a Stompa with all the guns for ~1400 points. I don't want to complain too much about the standard codex Stompa, as it is really cool that GW made us a (relatively) cheap, big superheavy walker, but at the same time the lack of customization options on the codex Stompa is criminally un-Orky.

I can kind of forgive Forge World for the Kustom Stompa being both bland and bad (all they gave us was ways to make the codex Stompa worse, and not even in ways that are entertainingly bad). All of their Indexes were rush jobs, and GW really seems to be pushing to cut down on options, especially ones that don't have models. I'm not as forgiving of them not including rules for models that they still sell and including rules for models they don't. That's just bizarre. I really hope they come out with a new and better Ork book soon.

Since GW seems to be trying to keep unit entries to one page, I think they should actually have four different Stompa entries, the GW Codex Stompa and three FW Kustom Stompas.
Codex Stompa: A good all-rounder
Klaw Stompa: Melee-focused Stompa with Klaws and/or Mega-Choppas and Mega Charga.
Dakka Stompa: All the guns and some rule that makes it more effective at shooting. Edit: needs a better name, I'm bad at naming things.
Big Mek Stompa: The most durable Stompa with a better repair krew and a KFF, plus weirder weapon options (unfortunately the only weird gun they make right now is the Lifta-Droppa).

Between GW and Forge World they currently produce the models and parts to support all of the above options.

I'm also still hoping to see the Battle Fortress rules they mentioned last summer. I have a feeling that they might make it part of the VDR rules for Open Play, but I'd actually be okay with that. If they do come out with more comprehensive VDR rules for Orks I hope they include the ability to make Gargants. I doubt they'll come out with a resin one* as hardly any Ork players are going to pay $1500 for something they can build themselves, but it would be cool to have a little guidance beyond either just playing it as an Imperial Titan or making up rules totally on our own.
*I think Armorcast made one way back when, but not anymore and it goes for approximately a jillion dollars now.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/04 05:17:19


YELL REAL LOUD AN' CARRY A BIG CHOPPA! 
   
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 matphat wrote:
Seeing as we got a Kult of Speed Battleforce in the store get ready for Kult of Speed to be a hot list in the new Ork Codex. Color me red and happy about it too since half my army is KoS.


I'd suggest preparing to be sad. A Kult of Speed battleforce likely means not updating the vehicles... again.
Rather than a hot list, I'd expect it to be a limp biscuit, with focus on more recent, more expensive kits.

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See this is where I disagree with everyone. I think the Kult of Speed Box is amazing. But only because it perfectly summarizes how well GW knows there own army/products. The fact that someone made a conscious decision to include those units and label it "Kult of Speed" shows how little they understand Orkz and how we play. I honestly see this as a foreshadowing of how well the Ork Codex is going to be received. Crap rules, Crap updates, Crap Klan Tactics, phoned in special rules and no updates on the badly needed fixes for 70% of the index. Nobody is taking 12pt rokkitz on anything these days and yet GW stubbornly refused to adjust the point costs.

Someone awhile back mentioned the "Arch Type" of orkz is Tough but not very killy, and went on to explain how our Vehicles were supposed to take a beating and keep on going. And yet if you actually look at previous rules and fluff that is completely false.

The Fluff says our Units should be random but when they function they massively over compensate. A perfect example of this would be the fluff story about the Orkz turning a Rok into a giant SAG and accidentally sucking an entire planet up.

Personally, what I would really like to see from the Ork Codex is a massive HUGE (Bigly) price change for most wargear options. I want someone who plays orkz to write the rules as well. Get rid of the stupid BS that nobody will ever take, like paying 5Pts to give 1 Nob in a squad a 6+ FNP or D3 Burnas for whatever reason.

Finally, the FLG video, I think GW picked these guys to do the BETA test because they can make up complete fething lies on live stream without giving a tell. "Stompa is worth every point" and he didn't even flinch.

If at first you don't succeed then Sky Diving isn't for you. 
   
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SemperMortis wrote:
See this is where I disagree with everyone. I think the Kult of Speed Box is amazing. But only because it perfectly summarizes how well GW knows there own army/products. The fact that someone made a conscious decision to include those units and label it "Kult of Speed" shows how little they understand Orkz and how we play. I honestly see this as a foreshadowing of how well the Ork Codex is going to be received. Crap rules, Crap updates, Crap Klan Tactics, phoned in special rules and no updates on the badly needed fixes for 70% of the index. Nobody is taking 12pt rokkitz on anything these days and yet GW stubbornly refused to adjust the point costs.

Someone awhile back mentioned the "Arch Type" of orkz is Tough but not very killy, and went on to explain how our Vehicles were supposed to take a beating and keep on going. And yet if you actually look at previous rules and fluff that is completely false.

The Fluff says our Units should be random but when they function they massively over compensate. A perfect example of this would be the fluff story about the Orkz turning a Rok into a giant SAG and accidentally sucking an entire planet up.

Personally, what I would really like to see from the Ork Codex is a massive HUGE (Bigly) price change for most wargear options. I want someone who plays orkz to write the rules as well. Get rid of the stupid BS that nobody will ever take, like paying 5Pts to give 1 Nob in a squad a 6+ FNP or D3 Burnas for whatever reason.

Finally, the FLG video, I think GW picked these guys to do the BETA test because they can make up complete fething lies on live stream without giving a tell. "Stompa is worth every point" and he didn't even flinch.


You watch, the Kult of Speed klan tactic is going to be "Can fall back from close combat and still shoot/charge" which GW will say represents their hit and run tactics.
   
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 Glane wrote:


You watch, the Kult of Speed klan tactic is going to be "Can fall back from close combat and still shoot/charge" which GW will say represents their hit and run tactics.


Which would be fine, if there was any incentive to falling back and charging, like 'evil sunz vehicles cause d3 mortal wounds on successful charges' or 'evil sunz units gain +1 attack on the charge'. Something like that would be fluffy and useful.
   
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Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





 davou wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
 davou wrote:

Allow ere'we'go to be one or both dice
DakkaDakkaDakka = 6's in shooting are hits no matter negative modifiers.
Ramshackle on a 4+ (or even 5+)
KFF works for units that are clipped
Add + 1 to move for green tide if under 20


This would only serve to make the green tide more powerful and all other army type still useless.


Did you read it, because I strongly disagree.


No, I read it alright.

- The 'ere we go buff is a 5% increase in chance to make deep strike rolls, plus you can already have that by spending CP. Small buff for melee units, which is what the green tide is running mostly. Walkers will also benefit, but making charges is not their main problem, crossing the battlefield in one piece is. I really don't think this one is necessary, but would be a quality of life improvement for ork players.
- 6's are hits is nice, but outside of tank bustaz we have next to no units that would be able to kill vehicles reliably through shooting after a -1 hit reduction. Try killing a storm raven, hemlock or blight drone with "just" -1 to hit with orks, and see how that goes. Multiple to hit modifiers are a problem for orks, but all the shooting units need tuning to make hitting on 6+ worthwhile in the first place.
- Ramshackle is a good idea, but doesn't change the fact that you pay 7 points per model transported. For almost every possible unit of passengers, this puts them into Space Marine territory pointswise, except you still don't have 3+ armor and 3+ BS. My issue with transport heavy lists is not that the transports aren't survivable enough. More ofthen than not the problem is that they are so expensive that my model/wound count is too low to survive a turn (or two) of shooting and still have an impact on the game. Another thing that needs to be address is that battlewagons and trukks are essentially fulfilling the same role in the index, so a rework of one or the other is needed. Otherwise the less efficient one will not get used.
- Flat buff to green tide. Anything but large mobs can easily be covered by KFF meks. Trust me, neither BW nor walkers have any trouble staying inside 9" of a KFF, and I have played tons of games with either 8th. Keep in mind that single model units only need to touch the bubble to be inside.
- Cute, but trukk boyz and bw boyz basically get 1" of movement for their pre-charge move out of this, while green tides get faster movement speeds for their weakened mobs. Bringing back bording planks with their +2" to charge moves would be a better solution.

Most units have very specific problems, that need specific fixes. Applying some blanked fixed (or buffs) will not fix the orks as an army. It will just make some stuff more powerful and leave other stuff useless.
For example, none of your changes would help gretchin, runtherds, wazzbom blastajets, mini meks, tractor cannons, flash gits or the stompa, all units in desperate need of changes.

Drager wrote:
I'd heard there would be a clatter, then perhaps a hiss, but that's not what it's like. We'd all been told that these things lurked in vents and crevices, that they could sneak up on a man no matter how alert, but that just wasn't what happened. We saw them coming, well, we heard them first, an ear-splitting boom as they accelerated across the plain. They must have been 2 miles away when we heard the crack, but we barely had time to lift our weapons before they were on us and then... past us. Running faster than I could follow. They didn't attack, didn't even try and it was then, as the whole platoon stared after them that a dread crept through me and I turned to see that which they had been running from.

-Infantryman Collins, 5th Umbra Rifles
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 An Actual Englishman wrote:
 Glane wrote:


You watch, the Kult of Speed klan tactic is going to be "Can fall back from close combat and still shoot/charge" which GW will say represents their hit and run tactics.


Which would be fine, if there was any incentive to falling back and charging, like 'evil sunz vehicles cause d3 mortal wounds on successful charges' or 'evil sunz units gain +1 attack on the charge'. Something like that would be fluffy and useful.


See, you aren't forging the narrative hard enough englishman. This is what GW has been trying to teach us Ork players for years. Stop trying to be "Competitive" or "Useful" with your ideas and buffs, instead think: "How Can I play my army to make SM and Eldar players feel better". giving us a unit with a useful buff would make Eldar and SM players lose models and that wouldn't be fun for them. Forge that narrative, and the narrative is, Orkz Lose again.

If at first you don't succeed then Sky Diving isn't for you. 
   
Made in gb
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





Yeah... the Orks do lose a lot in the lore but they often lose in stupid ways like "it's unbelievable that da hero army wud win da orkz cus we established how unstoppable da orkz are so letz just blow the warbosses head up with physic abilities or some crap". It's childish and I want the orks to win more often!
   
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Nasty Nob






https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/01/05/the-grand-warlord-returnsgw-homepage-post-2/


Ork focus in white dwarf!

If you’ve been looking to begin a Waaagh! of your own, this could well be the perfect time

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/05 16:50:19


ERJAK wrote:


The fluff is like ketchup and mustard on a burger. Yes it's desirable, yes it makes things better, but no it doesn't fundamentally change what you're eating and no you shouldn't just drown the whole meal in it.

 
   
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Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





Interesting... i agree with some stuff but other stuff I disagree with. What do you guys think of this?
   
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Squishy Squig




England Up North

I get the feeling the orks might be one of the next codex releases. I hope GW balanced out the rules and points so orks are a more viable army.

I would love a few new units as well but honestly I'll take what I can get.

DAKKADAKKADAKKA  
   
Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






 BigMekIronGob wrote:
I get the feeling the orks might be one of the next codex releases. I hope GW balanced out the rules and points so orks are a more viable army.

I would love a few new units as well but honestly I'll take what I can get.


I don't know. Currently there are so many issues that are coming from the ruleset itself. I doubt we'll get any real protection against going second vs a gunline blob army.
   
 
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