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Ernough plasma guns wreck even heavy tanks..

Double range, and ernough massed shots as I found will trash up a repulser or other heavy armoured wirh high wound count.

Yeah. If my SOB could have Plasma i would have 60 Plasma guns on the table starting in Repressors lol. So broken it would be.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Daedalus81 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Except on a lot of units you can do just that with the bodies needed to carry that many weapons. Space Marine Command Squads and Sternguard, Chaos Marine Chosen, and Sisters Command Squads and Dominions (I think that's the name?) Can all do that. Flamers have the same exact problem.

What you describe is only an issue on the Troops, and almost all those troop choices are garbage.

That still doesn't make SB better than melta. By that metric even autoguns are better. If you want to hunt tanks then even 1 melta and 4 SB is better than 5 SB on Chosen/Sternguard/whatever.

35 Chosen w/ Combi
10 wounds to T7 3+

25 Chosen w/ Combi and 5 Chosen w/ Melta
15 wounds to T7 3+

Both of those are the same total points.

Which is why you compare the price of the bodies and the weapons paid for. This isn't rocket science to understand why the Melta Gun is really bad right now.

It really depends more on the likely hood of hitting and wounding for example if one want to make the most of a melta gun one would put it on a frame that can best take advantage of said weapon.

For example I run a detachment of Alpha legion and the two HQs i use are Chaos lords on Discs with melta guns and Lighting claws. They are basically perfect for killing everything. Charcters, tanks, even do okay aginst less then 20 models.

They can very easily cripple a tank in 1 turn and immediately take off and mess with something else. Kill a charcter in 1 turn too if you get deathhex off.

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Daedalus81 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Except on a lot of units you can do just that with the bodies needed to carry that many weapons. Space Marine Command Squads and Sternguard, Chaos Marine Chosen, and Sisters Command Squads and Dominions (I think that's the name?) Can all do that. Flamers have the same exact problem.

What you describe is only an issue on the Troops, and almost all those troop choices are garbage.

That still doesn't make SB better than melta. By that metric even autoguns are better. If you want to hunt tanks then even 1 melta and 4 SB is better than 5 SB on Chosen/Sternguard/whatever.

35 Chosen w/ Combi
10 wounds to T7 3+

25 Chosen w/ Combi and 5 Chosen w/ Melta
15 wounds to T7 3+

Both of those are the same total points.

Which is why you compare the price of the bodies and the weapons paid for. This isn't rocket science to understand why the Melta Gun is really bad right now.

It really depends more on the likely hood of hitting and wounding for example if one want to make the most of a melta gun one would put it on a frame that can best take advantage of said weapon.

For example I run a detachment of Alpha legion and the two HQs i use are Chaos lords on Discs with melta guns and Lighting claws. They are basically perfect for killing everything. Charcters, tanks, even do okay aginst less then 20 models.

They can very easily cripple a tank in 1 turn and immediately take off and mess with something else. Kill a charcter in 1 turn too if you get deathhex off.

The crippling of a tank is way too rare for a Combi-Melta to ever be worth it on an HQ.

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:

Wayniac wrote:
I also think a big problem is how important CP is, and how easy it is to game it by taking cheap troops to fill out a Battalion. That's a huge mistake with 8th edition IMHO.

Agreed they should base it on points spent in various sections rather then how many units you have in that section.

I REALLY wish this was the case. Good call.

Yes, Comp Scores. we need this for determining CP and not "What detachments we take"

pismakron wrote:

 vaklor4 wrote:

pismakron wrote:

 vaklor4 wrote:

pismakron wrote:
Btw, I believe that 40 man blobs of cultists only works with abbadon or an Iron warrior warlord. I could be wrong about that, though.

Actually, Tzeetch cultists work pretty good too A 40 cultist blob with a Sorcerer bubblewrapped inside it can give them all a 5++ invuln, and +1 to hit. Put a Chaos Lord in there, and reroll those 1's. Hilarious.

But what about morale?

2 CP to regenerate the entire freakin' unit with a stratagem. Unless you get the entire unit wiped in one turn, you can just completelyregenerate them.

Yes, but without Abbadon or that Iron Warriors warlord trait your opponent just have to kill 20 cultists, and then the squad is wiped from morale. I don't see how it can ever be viable

Because 40 cultists is a huge, unbareable 160 points. The combo doesnt even take up more than half of a 500 point list, much less a 2000p one. Its super cheap and fairly resistent with that 5++ with 40 wounds.

It also doesn't help that the current CSM models are ancient and ugly as feth.
But yeah, the most important issue is that this edition is horde edition, and MEQ can't make a horde. That is why you see Chaos players running lots of chaff and much fewer MEQ.
Which funnily enough is also rather fluffy, considering that in the vast armies of Chaos, Marines are only supposed to be a tiny minority.

I don't see anything wrong with these chaff units being in armies. But this goes back to what I've been saying for awhile at we need a new unit role called "auxilury"
With the rule "you may take one auxilury unit per troop choice." That would immediately fix the issue of cheesy spam breaking the game, while still letting the chaff be useful.