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well now that I would need the IG codex, Ad mech codex, Imperium one and two index's and the BRB to play a game I feel like I pretty much need a library. (yes it's soup, but it's a really fluffy xeno inquisitor list)

My issue with all the codex's/index's you need is

1. they arent up to date, typically a week after their release a set of FAQ's is needed, now I'm not complaining that they are keeping the rules current, just that I have to keep printing/finding FAQ's to add to my list of books.

2. Where is our Battlescribe-esque app? AoS has one? where are our free rules like AoS? The amount I'd be able to spend on models if I didnt have to buy the books would almost double the amount I could spend on the minis.

3. for someone like me that collects multiple armies this is a VERY expensive part of the hobby that could be avoided (Necrons, Eldar, Dark Eldar, Harlequins, Genestealer cult, Mechanicum, IG, Inquisition, Deathwatch) I'm spending $500-600 every couple years (figuring codex will still update every 2ish years like we've seen) I cant afford to do that!.

To be fair I havent even bought the Eldar dex because I've just been using my index but as my friends start to buy their respective codex's I'll be forced to get one or choose to play the game with a disadvantage.

Codex's aren't particularly functional for gameplay. They're so out of date at this point their replacements are being phased out for better things. Battlescribe is better, but its UI is pretty terrible.

I buy Codex for my big factions (Dark Angels, Tau when it comes out, CSM and Death Guard, and Adeptus Custodes), but for example, I have a mixed list with Imperium units where I use Custodes with SoS, Celestine, Bullgryns and Tempestus Scions, Tempestus Prime and Tauroxes Primes.
For those 7 units, I use downloaded copies of the pages because I don't want to buy Imperium Index 2 and Astra Militarum Codex to use 4 units of one and 3 of the other. Yeah maybe I'm doing something illegal but I haven't had anyone say anything to me, when they see that I have my legit hardback Adeptus Custodes/Dark Angels Codex + 7 photocopies for the other units.

battlescribe is fine for opponents. I personally get codexes nowadays but when I was younger with less income I only used battlescribe or army builder with the exception of my orks who I had a codex for as my most used army. That said GW should just do a subscription service to give access to all of the codexes and books digitally, or do privateer press way of buy the units or armies in the app and it keeps things updated. I would totally pay up to $120 a year for access to all the books especially if it had a nice built in army building tool.

Depends. If you have the codex and can't be bothered lugging it around - fine. If you have little to no disposable income and have acquired a copy of it or the rules somehow - fine (a regular Robin Hood, me). If you have the cash and would just not prefer to spend it, yeah I'll silently judge you..sorry. If you're gabbing on about getting one over on big bad GW (as I have experienced)...well you'll be getting a raised eyebrow and a half. Hate them that much, don't play the game. No one in their right mind is impressed by such antics.

If your opponent is okay with you not having your codex that is okay but I am sure some people would refuse to play. It is a must for tournaments. BS is really good but you will make some mistakes without your codex.

I am so disappointed with the continued publication of codices.

I want to play the game, not read the lore. Lore belongs in a novel.

If people keep buying codices then gw will continue to profit off of rehashed material.

The rules should be free on their official website.

I'd rather buy codex in an A5 card format.

So then I can just take the sheets/cards for the models in my army. I can put them on the table and refer to them easy without sorting through a book.
Also they will all be the same size and fit in a box or case.
Also, also, they can have version numbers on the individual cards, so when there's a FAQ or change, I can just swap the individual card out with a new one. We can also know and verify the rules and points list on the cards too. I know some cards will be bigger than others, but you could have card 1/2 and 2/2 (say for horrors that is a full A4 page)
They could even produce these standard A5 cards within boxes of things. Or even in chapter approved. Or even in a codex book or a white dwarf (for weird and wonderful units)

I'd pay money for that, rather than a codex with lore. Although the codex with lore would be good as collectors editions etc.

Oh wait... I had a look through my 2nd edition box that's in the loft. It had datasheets in this format.

Well. If you can't show me better rules than battlescribe print then you wouldn't get to use the model. The moment I would notice you have only battlescribe printout either miodel goes out or game ends there, Battlescribe while good(and I use it myself) a) contains error b) is modifiable by player. You need to be able to prove rule actually goes like that and say inv save isn't actually different or rule goes wildly different.

You can use it as a tool IF YOU HAVE VERIFIED FIRST UP they are correct. And have actual book to show rule in question to opponent so that opponent knows that it IS so and not mistake by battlescribe or by you modifying battlescribe data to make model cheaper or more powerful it should be.

I come along showing you my unit of X has 2++ with rerolls in battlescribe print out. You going to accept it?

You must be fun to play against.

Its your prerogative as to who you want to play and why, but still. In an average game with a friend you wouldn't play against them if they didn't have a codex in front of them?

I mean, if you are attending a tournament, yes you should have all of the proper materials. But a casual game is whatever.

I've been playing for long enough to more or less know what is legit and what isn't, I can memorize a unit card in a couple min. It isn't rocket science.

But you are talking about straight cheating now, not about where you get the rules from. You can still cheat and not use battlescribe,

The thought of editing my battlescribe files deliberately to cheat has never even crossed my mind until you mentioned it.

Honestly, If someone goes out of their way to do that, he needs that win more than I do man. Warhammer just isn't the dick measuring contest it used to be for me anymore. I have more important things to do than worry about losing a game of toy soldiers.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:

Well. If you can't show me better rules than battlescribe print then you wouldn't get to use the model. The moment I would notice you have only battlescribe printout either miodel goes out or game ends there, Battlescribe while good(and I use it myself) a) contains error b) is modifiable by player. You need to be able to prove rule actually goes like that and say inv save isn't actually different or rule goes wildly different.

You can use it as a tool IF YOU HAVE VERIFIED FIRST UP they are correct. And have actual book to show rule in question to opponent so that opponent knows that it IS so and not mistake by battlescribe or by you modifying battlescribe data to make model cheaper or more powerful it should be.

I come along showing you my unit of X has 2++ with rerolls in battlescribe print out. You going to accept it?

You must be fun to play against.

Its your prerogative as to who you want to play and why, but still. In an average game with a friend you wouldn't play against them if they didn't have a codex in front of them?

I mean, if you are attending a tournament, yes you should have all of the proper materials. But a casual game is whatever.

I've been playing for long enough to more or less know what is legit and what isn't, I can memorize a unit card in a couple min. It isn't rocket science.

But you are talking about straight cheating now, not about where you get the rules from. You can still cheat and not use battlescribe,

The thought of editing my battlescribe files deliberately to cheat has never even crossed my mind until you mentioned it.

Honestly, If someone goes out of their way to do that, he needs that win more than I do man. Warhammer just isn't the dick measuring contest it used to be for me anymore. I have more important things to do than worry about losing a game of toy soldiers.

Think of it this way. The only codex I own are for my armies. I have no idea what the stat line is for a taurox. That is why I need some kind of rule for it. Print it out, have it on your phone. But have the info ready if I need it. I bring all of my rules so should the person I am playing. Im not a fan of battle scribe entries as substitutions for rules, they have errors and as one said, are easily manipulated. Your stance on what worries you or not has no factor in people playing by the rules and having copies of rules for what they play.

This is in a PuG setting mind you. At a tournament you better have a legal codex or some people will not be happy. And if you are into the game enough to even be at a tournament then you should have the proper codex in digital or print format. For games with buds do what ever you guys think is fine. Homebrew or make stuff up on the fly....it wont matter if all parties consent.

I made these for my nids and shared the blanks to be filled out with the nid tactica page. Much more functional than the codex.


Quick Reference Sheets for all units and wargear by Lance845

Personally I am very lax when it comes to this kind of thing so I personally would have no problem playing someone without a codex as I myself do not bother buying them anymore. I'll just google search for the rules, use battlescribe and 1d4chan together to cross check. If it is a tournament I would 100% understand requiring a hard copy and if I were a TO I would as well unless we were talking about using like 1 model from FW or something in which case just a picture or something of its datasheet would be fine for me. I wouldn't ever want to force someone to buy an overpriced book for one model and if they really want to cheat that badly then they need the win more than I do. Personally I support people choosing to not buy codices just to nudge GW to do their distribution of 40k rules like they do their AOS rules.

I buy the codex/army book for every army I own, usually on release day. Generally speaking, I like reading the fluff, looking at the art and having a physical copy in my hands, so I get more value out of it than if I just wanted it for rules. It also makes it easier to settle rules disputes as apps like Battlescribe are rife with inaccuracies.

However, I don't begrudge others for skipping them as anything Games Workshop produces comes at a steep price. I fully understand people saving their money for other purchases - i.e. more models, paints, etc - as ultimately you can find full rules online if you really need them, and most people won't really care as long as you can show them said rules on request during games.

Side-note, I bought a bunch of the indexes as well, but then again my local area can be a bit...pushy about having rules in hand

I am such a GW fan boy I will happily buy things like chapter approved and a few indexes despite knowing exactly what's going to be in them. I also buy from GW direct because I prefer their customer service.

I think I have a problem.

As to your specific question OP I think the codexes are pretty meaty and contain a lot of information even outside if rules. You get a load of fluff and sick artwork. I suppose it boils down to how much disposable income you have and whether you believe it to be worth it for you given your current financial situation.

For the Record. The position of us battlescribe file maintainers is:

A) buy the rules if you intend to use them, it is a reference and nothing more. Several times there has been consideration of cutting it all down to page references (usually after someone's whinefest). It is maintained by volunteers for ease of use and NOT as a replacement

B) it is an imperfect reference, and there are often armywide or special restrictions acting on data sheets that are not readily apparent.

C) if you do find bugs, submit them, since that helps them get fixed (Just bring a better tone than BCB's combative nonsense)

If you want to support the company, buy the codex. If not, you can find a pdf online pretty easily and print it out on your own. It's more effort than just buying the codex, and will be lower quality, but cheaper. You don't have to buy the codex if you don't find much reason to.

 Stormonu wrote:
Several repackaged models have their 8E datasheet with them, especially the Start Collecting boxes. You might want to see if that models comes with it’s datasheet.

They've stated that every model will have their 8E datasheet with them, it's just going to be a bit of time for the repackaged models to actually hit shelves.

 CadianGateTroll wrote:
I am so disappointed with the continued publication of codices.

I want to play the game, not read the lore. Lore belongs in a novel.

If people keep buying codices then gw will continue to profit off of rehashed material.

The rules should be free on their official website.

To me it makes a difference.

I'd love if there was a 1 or 2 line blurb for each unit entry in the indexes. It feels wrong with nothing.

The Codex system is solid...but sadly it doesn't work alongside a wave of FAQ/Errata. The Codex system is nice because it is very much an introduction to the new players what all the units in the book are (what they mean, how they function, why they exist).

The prices are still questionable on the books themselves (quality is not particularly high for what you pay).

Nothing should be free (aside from FAQ/Errata). GW is a business, not a charity. Stop being cheap.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:

Well. If you can't show me better rules than battlescribe print then you wouldn't get to use the model. The moment I would notice you have only battlescribe printout either miodel goes out or game ends there, Battlescribe while good(and I use it myself) a) contains error b) is modifiable by player. You need to be able to prove rule actually goes like that and say inv save isn't actually different or rule goes wildly different.

You can use it as a tool IF YOU HAVE VERIFIED FIRST UP they are correct. And have actual book to show rule in question to opponent so that opponent knows that it IS so and not mistake by battlescribe or by you modifying battlescribe data to make model cheaper or more powerful it should be.

I come along showing you my unit of X has 2++ with rerolls in battlescribe print out. You going to accept it?

You must be fun to play against.

Its your prerogative as to who you want to play and why, but still. In an average game with a friend you wouldn't play against them if they didn't have a codex in front of them?

I mean, if you are attending a tournament, yes you should have all of the proper materials. But a casual game is whatever.

I've been playing for long enough to more or less know what is legit and what isn't, I can memorize a unit card in a couple min. It isn't rocket science.

What? For wanting to play against REAL rules rather than whatever crap opponent might come up with or whatever errors/incompletes he's relying on from battlescribe?

How you can expect to be allowed to use models for what you don't know even rules for?

Battlescribe is full of errors or simply stuff missing so if I would try to play with IG right now with it I would either miss entire rules(sometimes for my benefit...) or almost but not quite correctly(again for my benefit). So I would be basically playing TOO GOOD codex if I relied just on battle scribe rather than actually having bought and read the codex.

Requirement to actually know rules of models you use is hardly unreasonable. Battle scribe is NOT replacement. Again I have already seen errors there myself and I only have IG codex.

tneva82 wrote:

 Brutus_Apex wrote:

Well. If you can't show me better rules than battlescribe print then you wouldn't get to use the model. The moment I would notice you have only battlescribe printout either miodel goes out or game ends there, Battlescribe while good(and I use it myself) a) contains error b) is modifiable by player. You need to be able to prove rule actually goes like that and say inv save isn't actually different or rule goes wildly different.

You can use it as a tool IF YOU HAVE VERIFIED FIRST UP they are correct. And have actual book to show rule in question to opponent so that opponent knows that it IS so and not mistake by battlescribe or by you modifying battlescribe data to make model cheaper or more powerful it should be.

I come along showing you my unit of X has 2++ with rerolls in battlescribe print out. You going to accept it?

You must be fun to play against.

Its your prerogative as to who you want to play and why, but still. In an average game with a friend you wouldn't play against them if they didn't have a codex in front of them?

I mean, if you are attending a tournament, yes you should have all of the proper materials. But a casual game is whatever.

I've been playing for long enough to more or less know what is legit and what isn't, I can memorize a unit card in a couple min. It isn't rocket science.

What? For wanting to play against REAL rules rather than whatever crap opponent might come up with or whatever errors/incompletes he's relying on from battlescribe?

How you can expect to be allowed to use models for what you don't know even rules for?

Battlescribe is full of errors or simply stuff missing so if I would try to play with IG right now with it I would either miss entire rules(sometimes for my benefit...) or almost but not quite correctly(again for my benefit). So I would be basically playing TOO GOOD codex if I relied just on battle scribe rather than actually having bought and read the codex.

Requirement to actually know rules of models you use is hardly unreasonable. Battle scribe is NOT replacement. Again I have already seen errors there myself and I only have IG codex.

While battlescribe has errors temporarily as the people working on those files update them faster and better then GW, what do you expect from players with books? Should they be printing out and carrying around the dozens of pages of FAQs and Errata associated with any given army/the game?

I play pure nids. Right now that means.

-6 pages from the designers commentary.
-4 Index Xenos 2
-5 Main Rulebook
-4 stepping into a new edition
-3 Imperial Armor Index Xenos
-1 Chapter Approved
-3 Codex Tyranids

26 pages of errata needed to play 8th edition for a single army with little to no cross over with any other army. God forbid I decide to use GSCs and include some AM units. Why not use a program that gets updated regularly and fact checked by the community so that it can stay up to date. I certainly have no option from GW that provides the same thing.

Oh yeah, let me also grab the actual books. Index xenos 2, IA: Index Xenos, Codex Tyranids, Core Rulebook, Chapter Approved.

Now that I have placed these 5 books and presumably my binder full of FAQs into my backpack, where the hell am I supposed to lay out this research project so I can play a game?

 Lance845 wrote:

I've been playing for long enough to more or less know what is legit and what isn't, I can memorize a unit card in a couple min
While battlescribe has errors temporarily as the people working on those files update them faster and better then GW, what do you expect from players with books? Should they be printing out and carrying around the dozens of pages of FAQs and Errata associated with any given army/the game?

I play pure nids. Right now that means.

-6 pages from the designers commentary.
-4 Index Xenos 2
-5 Main Rulebook
-4 stepping into a new edition
-3 Imperial Armor Index Xenos
-1 Chapter Approved
-3 Codex Tyranids

26 pages of errata needed to play 8th edition for a single army with little to no cross over with any other army. God forbid I decide to use GSCs and include some AM units. Why not use a program that gets updated regularly and fact checked by the community so that it can stay up to date. I certainly have no option from GW that provides the same thing.

Oh yeah, let me also grab the actual books. Index xenos 2, IA: Index Xenos, Codex Tyranids, Core Rulebook, Chapter Approved.

Now that I have placed these 5 books and presumably my binder full of FAQs into my backpack, where the hell am I supposed to lay out this research project so I can play a game?

The guys who keep battlescribe up to date are heroes and are probably responsible for (at least in part) the growth of the hobby in recent years. They keep the barrier to entry low.

Your example above is somewhat disingenuous though; for a start you only need Imperial Armour if you're planning on taking Forge World models. I believe every unit was added from index to codex also so you have no need for that? There's 2 books dropped straight away.

You could keep the designers commentary and stepping into a new edition on your phone for reference. You're choosing to print them off and make things difficult for yourself.

No real position to state beyond my previous, but if you're going to casually sling around "battlescribe is full of errors" in the pejorative, at least swing by and bug rep the examples, can't fix what we haven't been made aware of.


There's also the 'reading a book you wrote' problem, where most files are kept/maintained by one person, so they sometimes will just fill in an issue or blank mentally without noticing

 WindstormSCR wrote:
No real position to state beyond my previous, but if you're going to casually sling around "battlescribe is full of errors" in the pejorative, at least swing by and bug rep the examples, can't fix what we haven't been made aware of.


There's also the 'reading a book you wrote' problem, where most files are kept/maintained by one person, so they sometimes will just fill in an issue or blank mentally without noticing

Then again as long as it doesn't interfere with making legal lists why should I? I don't WANT battle scribe to have full rules. Those will inevitably be errors so program shouldn't encourage to use it as replacement of rules.

All it should do is ensure you have legal army. HOW units play is what codex tells.

I deliberately do NOT send any error notes if it's for how unit plays on table. I only care about errors that make illegal armies. But for example if I find weapon that has incorrect stats? So what? (well unless it's point cost that's in error). I use codex for actual rules and I expect opponent to do same rather than battle scribe.

For special rules name+page reference should be all it provides.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:

I've been playing for long enough to more or less know what is legit and what isn't, I can memorize a unit card in a couple min
While battlescribe has errors temporarily as the people working on those files update them faster and better then GW, what do you expect from players with books? Should they be printing out and carrying around the dozens of pages of FAQs and Errata associated with any given army/the game?

I play pure nids. Right now that means.

-6 pages from the designers commentary.
-4 Index Xenos 2
-5 Main Rulebook
-4 stepping into a new edition
-3 Imperial Armor Index Xenos
-1 Chapter Approved
-3 Codex Tyranids

26 pages of errata needed to play 8th edition for a single army with little to no cross over with any other army. God forbid I decide to use GSCs and include some AM units. Why not use a program that gets updated regularly and fact checked by the community so that it can stay up to date. I certainly have no option from GW that provides the same thing.

Oh yeah, let me also grab the actual books. Index xenos 2, IA: Index Xenos, Codex Tyranids, Core Rulebook, Chapter Approved.

Now that I have placed these 5 books and presumably my binder full of FAQs into my backpack, where the hell am I supposed to lay out this research project so I can play a game?

The guys who keep battlescribe up to date are heroes and are probably responsible for (at least in part) the growth of the hobby in recent years. They keep the barrier to entry low.

Your example above is somewhat disingenuous though; for a start you only need Imperial Armour if you're planning on taking Forge World models. I believe every unit was added from index to codex also so you have no need for that? There's 2 books dropped straight away.

Malanthropes are a very common and very useful unit for nids that are FW, Tyranid Shrikes didn't make it to the codex and neither did some wargear options. Namely 2 or 3 guns for Termagants. Not that people are running around with spike rifles particularly often. But it's there. And Shrikes are VERY good units in the right list. 6ppm more than warriors for +6M and FLY.

So add those books back in.

You could keep the designers commentary and stepping into a new edition on your phone for reference. You're choosing to print them off and make things difficult for yourself.

To be clear I print nothing off but my personal quick reference sheet. When I show up to play a game I have the fold out pamphlet for the core rules and that card and my deck of datacards. Codex and index sit in a pouch in my bag and almost never get touched. I went out of my way to get a hold of mission cards so I don't need to core rule book for those either.

I was simply making an example of how insane it is to demand a player have physical copies of all the rules to prove their rules. The game hasn't been out for 12 months and it's already insane what you need to play. GW needs to give a code to DL a digital codex with the purchase of any physical codex and it need to be updated regularly with points adjustments and rules errata.

I'm in the 'couldn't care less' category.

You want to buy all the codices? Awsome.

You want to turn up with pirated PDFs? Yep, I'll still play you.

Want to get the rules of Battlescribe? Sure, why not.

 Lance845 wrote:
I was simply making an example of how insane it is to demand a player have physical copies of all the rules to prove their rules. The game hasn't been out for 12 months and it's already insane what you need to play. GW needs to give a code to DL a digital codex with the purchase of any physical codex and it need to be updated regularly with points adjustments and rules errata.

Apologies I misinterpreted what you were getting at. I completely agree, physical codex should = digital purchase included and free updates and it is unreasonable to expect someone to have everything they need physically, depending on their army of course.

I mean for me running Evil Sunz Bikes, I need 4 books, IA Xenos (for Zhadsnark :/), Index Xenos 2, Rule book and CA. I never bother with IA Xenos and just stuff the other 3 books in my carry case with my models lol.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
I was simply making an example of how insane it is to demand a player have physical copies of all the rules to prove their rules. The game hasn't been out for 12 months and it's already insane what you need to play. GW needs to give a code to DL a digital codex with the purchase of any physical codex and it need to be updated regularly with points adjustments and rules errata.

Apologies I misinterpreted what you were getting at. I completely agree, physical codex should = digital purchase included and free updates and it is unreasonable to expect someone to have everything they need physically, depending on their army of course.

I mean for me running Evil Sunz Bikes, I need 4 books, IA Xenos (for Zhadsnark :/), Index Xenos 2, Rule book and CA. I never bother with IA Xenos and just stuff the other 3 books in my carry case with my models lol.

Just wait till your codex comes out! and then 2 weeks after thatwhen you get a faq! And then next christmas when we get CA 2!

All I possess are the indexes (and cards), and I haven’t done a roster by hand since the 90’s. If that’s not good enough for my opponent, I’ll frankly find someone more reasonable to play.

If you want to play without buying a Codex that's all right, just so long as you acknowledge that you don't get to take offense if your opponent challenges the rules you brought along. If you're somewhere that nobody has access to any way of checking your rules then I'd suggest you just get the Codex, in order to head off potential conflict.