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 bullyboy wrote:
Absolutely GW could turn Squats back into a viable army. They have an opportunity to rethink completely how they operate in the current 40K scene. It won't be the old Squats by a longshot,

Yeah. I do find the whole "we tried but screwed up 20+ years ago, so we will never ever do it again" a bit bizarre. GW has said they won't do X countless time before. Right now they are selling loads of old ideas and clearly making a fortune.

The challenge is finding an interesting theme (both artistically but also gameplay) that is sufficiently distinct from other factions. (Armoured) Dwarves in space, its IG but with slightly tougher basic infantry, isn't much of a theme.

I guess they could essentially repurpose the AoS Kharadron guys with 40k rules and not even have to spend money on new model lines. Not sure they'd want to do that, but they could easily pass.

I'd probably buy a few squats if they came back.

Tyel wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
Absolutely GW could turn Squats back into a viable army. They have an opportunity to rethink completely how they operate in the current 40K scene. It won't be the old Squats by a longshot,

Yeah. I do find the whole "we tried but screwed up 20+ years ago, so we will never ever do it again" a bit bizarre. GW has said they won't do X countless time before. Right now they are selling loads of old ideas and clearly making a fortune.

The challenge is finding an interesting theme (both artistically but also gameplay) that is sufficiently distinct from other factions. (Armoured) Dwarves in space, its IG but with slightly tougher basic infantry, isn't much of a theme.

It was a bit more than that to be fair. It wasn't just that they can't be bothered to try.

To make a new faction, there also has to be a design lead who is enthusiastic about it and has vision for where to take it. The problem was, no one at GW felt passionately about Squats. They started as a copy paste dwarfs in to sci-fi and, when other factions started getting much deeper and more compelling fluff, there was no one championing where to take Squats.

To this day, it has been implied in interviews, there is no one with clout who is keen enough to give it a go.

In a world where Orks are a thing, Space Marines read memories by eating people, walkers and chainswords are used in actual war and there are actual daemons running around, how are squats silly?

I can totally see them coming back, and it would be way for GW to gain huge amounts of goodwill. The "squatting" of the squats is a sore point in the community, and this Necromunda thing could very well be GW's way of gauging interest in re-releasing squats.

I too would like to see squats return, but not in the original format.

I want them to return within the T'au empire.

Either that or an entire book of alien mercenaries. Squats, a kroot kindred list, ork freebooters, eldar corsairs (since they eliminated over half of my army), hell even the slyyth from dark eldar are paid killers with a merc backstory.

Just let these be added to lists, but disallow them to have command points spent on them or their allies (depending on who is warlord) and you can the have a faction for all the random cool monsters and xenos the team may have rattling around.

Maybe let T'au use their command points if they're the warlord's army because they are willing to actually accept these random units into the fold moreso than other races. (Even other eldar with corsairs, the princes are just too cocky to be willing to work that effectively with anyone else.)

Mantic found a way to bring a line of space dwarves into their not-40K universe, GW could do it just as easily - if someone would step up to bat.

Perhaps the crew that did the Kharadons might have the fervor to take on the mantle?

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
I too would like to see squats return, but not in the original format.

I want them to return within the T'au empire.

This is more or less what Demiurg are and I'd really like to see what can be done with them.

There will never be a Squats army. This is a one-off gimmick aimed at nostalgia and novelty. Makes me wonder about the plastic S.O.B. tho...is it some sick joke?

 Bloviator wrote:
There will never be a Squats army. This is a one-off gimmick aimed at nostalgia and novelty. Makes me wonder about the plastic S.O.B. tho...is it some sick joke?

I think the nod to plastic sisters us merely an acknowledgement of what is now a community meme. Not much more.

They're a business, if and when they believe plastic sisters are the best use of their resources they'll happen. Just remember that the amount something gets talked about on the internet doesn't necessarily translate in to sales.

Tyel wrote:

The challenge is finding an interesting theme (both artistically but also gameplay) that is sufficiently distinct from other factions. (Armoured) Dwarves in space, its IG but with slightly tougher basic infantry, isn't much of a theme.

I have heard the same. It is not a question of whether Dwarves could be imported into 40K, made cool and made to work. The question is whether there is anyone with the drive the passion to lead the project. Squats worked in Epic because they found a niche for them that had not been exploited elsewhere in the form of their Land Trains, Collossus, Cyclops etc as well as slightly more steampunk elements like Armoured Airships and Gyrocopters. Karadon Overlords look like they have taken the later part and imported it quite successfully into AoS.

The trouble is that the AdMech have slightly borrowed the Steampunk vibe. Scions have taken the role of slightly tougher and better IG. It would be hard to find a niche that has not been tapped by one of the existing armies to some extent.

Bring them back as the demiurg, now with the tau because the imperium abandoned them to the nids. Boom. Release a few fancy units that plug gaps in the army and call it a day.

 hippyjr wrote:
Bring them back as the demiurge, now with the tau because the imperium abandoned them to the nids. Boom. Release a few fancy units that plug gaps in the army and call it a day.

Squat aren't Demiurg.

I cannot stand Tau. They of all the races don't fit in 40K. I guess they are the Gnomes of Warhammer?

Necrons= Undead(tomb kings)
Nids= skaven horde
Orks/Grechin =Orks/Goblins
Humies =Empire
Ogryns, Ratlings= self explanatory
Renegades=Norsca
Marines=Britania
Exodites= Sylvan elves
Craftworld= Hight Elves
Dark Eldar = dark elves
Chaos=Chaos (Beastmen/Warriors/Daemons)
Squats = Dwarves and Chaos Dwarves
Tau=?
[see they don't fit}

???=Slann/Lizardmen
???=Vampire counts
???= Fimir
???=Hobgoblins/Black Orks

Isn't that a good thing? Why should 40k be a direct copy of WHFB?
Also, Necrons aren't Tomb kings. They are more like a cross between Tomb Kings and Vampire counts.
Tomb Kings do not have a ghoul expy (flayed ones), a ghost expy (basically wraiths) or the same victorian morbid imagery (Nightbringer = grim reaper, Spiders, ect)

This idea that necrons = tomb kings in space is an innacurate meme that needs to stop, as it just leads to nonsense like in 5th ed, where they started dropping all of the unique other little elements that made necrons compelling and doubled down on the meme.

GW is clearly on a spree of bringing back old stuff and making background factions into playable armies. I would not be surprised at all to see them bring back the Squats in a similar way they brought back the Genestealer Cults. A revised version that fits into modern 40k and is stripped of its RT-era silliness (like the Genestealers no longer have a hilariously fat Patriarch and no longer drive around in limos)

 lolman1c wrote:
Death to the tall Emperor! Long live the Squat kingdom!

This guy is a veteran of the tall war...

 Kanluwen wrote:

 hippyjr wrote:
Bring them back as the demiurge, now with the tau because the imperium abandoned them to the nids. Boom. Release a few fancy units that plug gaps in the army and call it a day.

Squat aren't Demiurg.

I thought demiurg were space dwarves? If they are, easy way to capitalise on squats without investing in a new army. If not, then forget what I said.

 hippyjr wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 hippyjr wrote:
Bring them back as the demiurge, now with the tau because the imperium abandoned them to the nids. Boom. Release a few fancy units that plug gaps in the army and call it a day.

Squat aren't Demiurg.

I thought demiurg were space dwarves? If they are, easy way to capitalise on squats without investing in a new army. If not, then forget what I said.

There was a fairly recent AMA with an ex-designer that touched on this. I forget who it was I'm afraid.

Basically, Demiurg were put in the game lore as a tiny nod to Squats. They are for all intents and purposes the Squat place holder, and are seen as such by the design team. If they ever decide to bring back space dwarfs as a thing in playable 40k, it could be as Demiurg, it could be old school Squats, it could be something entirely new.

Arguing over whether Demiurg are Squats is pointless though. In lore they are clearly not the same. From a design space perspective they sort of are. It's not a clear cut thing.

Squats are abhumans, demiurgs are xenos, mercenary xenos, not imperial forces. IIRC.
Just because they are both small don't mean they are the same race.

I personally find the squats/dwarves to be the least apealing models out of all of GWs lineup.
I can't imagine a way they could bring these into modern day 40k and make them interesting from a design aspect.
Apparently they have their fans, but for me they are just potential enemy armies.

In that respect, i would be ok with them coming back, under one condition: not be part of the Imperium!
1) Imperium has enough stuff already
2) Releasing sub-factions under the Imperium faction just seems like an excuse for GW to release partial mini-armies: You can't play this army on their own? Oh, you're not supposed to, just ally with some other Imperium thing.
3) That would most likely just be a copy of their old state. What they need though is a role of their own.

I love the look of the Kharadron for AOS and could think of them maybe swapping out sprues to make it fit 40k. give them 40k helmets, arms and weapons for infantry and more 40k engine & vehicle mounted weapons would be perfect.

or they could make them have advanced squat tech from the dark age of technology that is all jetbike/trike and heavy repulsor tank(vindicator/mortar).

They obviously can do squat in modern 40k, just look at Grendl.

Frankly I don't see the room for another faction in terms of tabletop niche but I don't suppose that would stop GW. As a game system 40k isn't really about having factions with wildly divergent play styles and functionality, even less so in 8th edition.

I would prefer to see a Squat-like faction reintroduced as xenos rather than as abhumans and preferably as a mini-dex rather than as a full faction. My preference would be for a Dogs of War style mercenary faction who can ally with anyone (within reason), perhaps with a loose Tau affiliation if they opted towards the Demiurg route.

I'm not sure what they would add that other factions lack but that's more down to homogeneity in modern 40k.

Squats were always my favourite army, and I would definitely buy them if they came out. I think Mantic did a decent enough job with their Forgefather line of demonstrating that you can do dwarves in space (though perversely that might make GW nervous because alternate model ranges exist...)

Mark.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 hippyjr wrote:
Bring them back as the demiurge, now with the tau because the imperium abandoned them to the nids. Boom. Release a few fancy units that plug gaps in the army and call it a day.

Squat aren't Demiurg.

The are if they're retconned to be.

Stux wrote:
Basically, Demiurg were put in the game lore as a tiny nod to Squats. They are for all intents and purposes the Squat place holder, and are seen as such by the design team. If they ever decide to bring back space dwarfs as a thing in playable 40k, it could be as Demiurg, it could be old school Squats, it could be something entirely new.

Arguing over whether Demiurg are Squats is pointless though. In lore they are clearly not the same. From a design space perspective they sort of are. It's not a clear cut thing.

I think the fact that nothing has been done with the Demiurg in over a decade suggests that none of the design studio are interested in space dwarfs as a concept, not just Squats as a particular development of that idea. There's been at least two Tau Empire codexes in that time, and they added ... blue wasp-people, not alien space dwarfs. We've got one Squat in Necromunda because Andy Hoare is a big oldhammer fan (seriously, half of the "oldhammer" miniatures on display at Warhammer Fest 2017 were his) and the nature of that game lets you chuck in one model to explore an idea.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:

Stux wrote:
Basically, Demiurg were put in the game lore as a tiny nod to Squats. They are for all intents and purposes the Squat place holder, and are seen as such by the design team. If they ever decide to bring back space dwarfs as a thing in playable 40k, it could be as Demiurg, it could be old school Squats, it could be something entirely new.

Arguing over whether Demiurg are Squats is pointless though. In lore they are clearly not the same. From a design space perspective they sort of are. It's not a clear cut thing.

I think the fact that nothing has been done with the Demiurg in over a decade suggests that none of the design studio are interested in space dwarfs as a concept, not just Squats as a particular development of that idea. There's been at least two Tau Empire codexes in that time, and they added ... blue wasp-people, not alien space dwarfs. We've got one Squat in Necromunda because Andy Hoare is a big oldhammer fan (seriously, half of the "oldhammer" miniatures on display at Warhammer Fest 2017 were his) and the nature of that game lets you chuck in one model to explore an idea.

Totally agree. I think it's really cool that GW acknowledge this kind of thing and give the community something fun like this from time to time. It would never have happened with their attitude just a few years ago.

That said, I don't think there's anything more to read in to this. It's a one off cool model.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 hippyjr wrote:
Bring them back as the demiurge, now with the tau because the imperium abandoned them to the nids. Boom. Release a few fancy units that plug gaps in the army and call it a day.

Squat aren't Demiurg.

Technically they are. Not so many years back one of the GW artists showed off a design for the demiurg and it was a space dwarf.

In-universe: Squats are abhumans who live(d) on planets near the centre of the galaxy. Demiurg are aliens who come from the Eastern fringe.

In real life: both are different takes on the "dwarfs in space" idea. The original idea behind the Demiurg was to use them to explore that idea, rather than the Squats (so they could do something new and not feel constrained by the existing background and look of the Squats). However, since the 6th edition rulebook, Squats as an idea has been quietly sneaked back into the setting, so now we have two different "dwarfs in space" races lurking in the background, neither with any real development.

Same with Ogryns, Ratlings and others.

Its not like we don't have a ton of Impy add ons already.

We just got Custodes for rediculousnessness.
Have you seen some of the pirate hats on the orks in the index....YOU CANNOT GET MORE SILLY than THAT.

So that argument completely fails. Squats would be led by geeky engineer types with hardy har har survivor mill/mine/farm workers of the toughest barroom sort. Everyone else just died.
So they would not be a faction of sitting in dusty imperial coffers making plans. These are shoot from the hip, in your face, tell it like it is, etc abhumans.

Anyone who loves a good Barroom personality types with a good ol 'redneck' or backwoods feel or no one is going to tell us what to do type of hardass gents....then you have the dwarves....er squats.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh yeah.....those geeky engineer types made bionics, exo armour and still have the extra cool and sci fi weapons from the STC. They managed to scrape together way more tech than the imperium ever had and had thousands of years head start to design their own kick ass stuff.

They used to trade with the Eldar and the Orks. So they are up on all the fancy smancy stuff and in 10k years I'm sure they made some surprises for anyone.