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I'm a Dark Eldar player, so I mostly miss the following

1) Dark Eldar Special Characters
2) Bikes and Boards for HQ units
3) 1 Heavy and 1 Special per 5 for Kabalite Warriors
4) Retinues with mixed Warriors and Incubi

Humour. Though I still really enjoy the fluff, I can't help but feel it takes itself rather too seriously these days and suffers for it.

I'd like Inquisitor retinues and Arbites to be a thing again.

So what exactly was "3. IG assault squads "?

Sounds to me like the sort of thing that would fit into certain IG/human armies. Was it heavily armoured infantry with power swords, or a mob of fanatics armed with sticks?

 Zingraff wrote:
So what exactly was "3. IG assault squads "?

Sounds to me like the sort of thing that would fit into certain IG/human armies. Was it heavily armoured infantry with power swords, or a mob of fanatics armed with sticks?

At least in epic jump packs, 2 pistols.

Turn Rate Ratio
Flight Levels
The fact that a Bloodthirster's axe was another Bloodthirster!

Force organization based on percentage of points and more restrictive slots.

Wargear cards, with every army having access to (at least some) effectively equivalent technologies, e.g. refractor fields.

Troop specific movement rates less than 6" in most cases.

Standard (non-random) charge distances.

Initiative.

Terrain/cover modifiers for to-hit rolls rather than or in conjunction with armor saves.

To-hit modifiers for movement, e.g fast is a neg to-hit.

1500 point sweet spot.

Less deep strike/teleport shenanigans.

Looted wagons/conversion potential for orks, but also vehicle design rules for other armies with restrictions, e.g. no more than one main gun, no more than X lesser armaments, tables for each army reflecting race-specific access to different forms of tech (wish listing more than reviving here).

Weapon location line of sight for vehicles (turrets matter, sponsons more restrictive).

Armor facing.

Templates of every sort.

No purposeful pre-measuring every thing. Once a model is picked up and put down, it stays there as a general rule, though this can be relaxed depending on the number of beer phases, the type of friend, the schedule, and so on.

Model to model LoS, ranging, rather than unit to unit and so on, e.g. no taking casualties from models that are outside of a weapon's range, out of LoS, casualties limited to those models visible to the shooter.

Yes, many of these will make the game "slower" for some people, though the measuring thing will speed the game a lot, and this should be OK. This is what I WANT to do. I don't understand why people are in such a hurry to finish a game, when getting a good one together is really the hard part. Once it is set up, allow sufficient time to do it right, and do one good game. My philosophy... Greater realism, less abstraction.

Oh! Oh!

3+ saves on 2D6 for terminators.

Drager wrote:
I'm a Dark Eldar player, so I mostly miss the following

1) Dark Eldar Special Characters
2) Bikes and Boards for HQ units
3) 1 Heavy and 1 Special per 5 for Kabalite Warriors
4) Retinues with mixed Warriors and Incubi

I'd settle for any of the "bodyguard" units - Incubi, Trueborn, Bloodbrides, Wracks - having a minimum unit size of 4.

because, you know, Dark Eldar aren't allowed to have vehicles with 6 or 12 transport capacity and they're not allowed to have units go below 5 members (or have any extra weapons unlock below 10 members). That might make our mobility-less HQs useful!

Jump Pack, Biker, Terminator variants of HQ units in Chaos (I mean... we have some JP and terminators)

Drop pods for Chaos that aren't FW only...

Less Deep Striking, I filtrating, etc. shennanigans, should be more specialized and limited like it once was

Less powerful fliers

 jeff white wrote:
Force organization based on percentage of points and more restrictive slots.

Standard (non-random) charge distances.

Both of these. Percentage of points (based on "At least X% Troops" or whatever) to unlock command point bonuses would solve SO MANY problems that elite armies have right now.

Heres what you do:

-The number of factions in your army gives you your base number of starting command points. More factions = smaller base number.

-The percentage of your army that is skewed towards one particular role dictates your multiplier. If over half your army is one particular specialist slot (HQ, Elite, Fast, Heavy) you get a modifier of 1. If you have a balanced mix, 1.5. If you have over 1/3 of your points in Troops units, 2.

2d6 armor saves, terminators don't work without them, vehicles could be more interesting with them.

Also gives armor pen a wider range between 'liquifies infantry' and 'bounces off of tanks' to use. Perhaps then we could get the -1 back on bolters.

tneva82 wrote:

 Zingraff wrote:
So what exactly was "3. IG assault squads "?

Sounds to me like the sort of thing that would fit into certain IG/human armies. Was it heavily armoured infantry with power swords, or a mob of fanatics armed with sticks?

At least in epic jump packs, 2 pistols.

I assume Assault Squads were meant to resemble the type of infantry you'd find in Heinlein's Starship Troopers (the book, not the film), before all that became exclusively Space Marine territory.

Elysians could have had jump pack infantry, but to be fair, I don't see how non-augmented humans would work as jump pack infantry, they would just get expensive and vulnerable.

Anybody reading this basically get the impression that a lot of people here would like it if GW simply read the 2nd edition rules and the Dark Millennium supplement, discarded the more easily exploited stuff and then ported over the game "engine" in its entirety?

Banville wrote:
Anybody reading this basically get the impression that a lot of people here would like it if GW simply read the 2nd edition rules and the Dark Millennium supplement, discarded the more easily exploited stuff and then ported over the game "engine" in its entirety?

I like me some 2nd edition but it's got its flaws. I'd like to see it come back as a second game system for smaller games, basically. At 500-1000 points (current point values for units) 2nd would work great. Trying to play a game of 2nd with current normal army sizes would result in absolute bedlam and would take 24 hours.

 Crazyterran wrote:
No to the garbage that was armour facings, yes to more customization options for characters. Artificer Armour! Terminator Honors! Sergeants being able to buy Terminator Armour!

What exactly is "garbage" about armour facings? It made how one positioned their vehicles far more tactical than it is right now (I'd settle for what we have now but with different toughness and/or armour saves on side and rear facings). Vehicles can currently fire their own sponson weapons through themselves and draw LOS from aerials. If anything is daft, it's that.

Banville wrote:
Anybody reading this basically get the impression that a lot of people here would like it if GW simply read the 2nd edition rules and the Dark Millennium supplement, discarded the more easily exploited stuff and then ported over the game "engine" in its entirety?

Haven't seen anyone yelling to get the old close combat rules back, those were a bear.

Regular broken Marines!

Lol I jest. Primaris Marines will never replace old busted Marines. Geedubs promised.

But actually there are some old sculpts that would look really good with an update. The old razorback, with its manned turret looked pretty cool and would look even better redone. I also think it would be really wicked awesome if they redid some of the old tank patterns. The old land raider with the all-round treads was dope.

I would pay money to be able to field ancient marks of tanks, much like how they now sell older power armour kits for HH.

I'm actually really impressed with that move on GWs part. I always wanted Forge World power armour but could never afford it, now GW is making it, it's at least more readily available.

 Zingraff wrote:
So what exactly was "3. IG assault squads "?

Sounds to me like the sort of thing that would fit into certain IG/human armies. Was it heavily armoured infantry with power swords, or a mob of fanatics armed with sticks?

Chainsword, Laspistol and a Jump Pack. Of course, back then you could pay extra points and upgrade them to bolt pistols, give one a plasma pistol, etc.

I love reading this post. A lot of the stuff I'd forgotten about. I think the thing I miss the VERY most....: Rogue Traders.

Seriously, that was IN the title of the game. They could easily write a page or two to bring back Rogue Traders in a very Inquisition HQ sort of way and make them lore-friendly by allowing them most of the options available to pretty much any character in the game, including Xenos.

Banville wrote:
Anybody reading this basically get the impression that a lot of people here would like it if GW simply read the 2nd edition rules and the Dark Millennium supplement, discarded the more easily exploited stuff and then ported over the game "engine" in its entirety?

Almost exactly yes sir!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

YeOldSaltPotato wrote:

Banville wrote:
Anybody reading this basically get the impression that a lot of people here would like it if GW simply read the 2nd edition rules and the Dark Millennium supplement, discarded the more easily exploited stuff and then ported over the game "engine" in its entirety?

Haven't seen anyone yelling to get the old close combat rules back, those were a bear.

Liked them better than present rules for the most part, but maybe just using them to influence current rules would be best.

 jeff white wrote:
Force organization based on percentage of points and more restrictive slots.

Wargear cards, with every army having access to (at least some) effectively equivalent technologies, e.g. refractor fields.

Troop specific movement rates less than 6" in most cases.

Standard (non-random) charge distances.

Initiative.

Terrain/cover modifiers for to-hit rolls rather than or in conjunction with armor saves.

To-hit modifiers for movement, e.g fast is a neg to-hit.

1500 point sweet spot.

Less deep strike/teleport shenanigans.

Looted wagons/conversion potential for orks, but also vehicle design rules for other armies with restrictions, e.g. no more than one main gun, no more than X lesser armaments, tables for each army reflecting race-specific access to different forms of tech (wish listing more than reviving here).

Weapon location line of sight for vehicles (turrets matter, sponsons more restrictive).

Armor facing.

Templates of every sort.

No purposeful pre-measuring every thing. Once a model is picked up and put down, it stays there as a general rule, though this can be relaxed depending on the number of beer phases, the type of friend, the schedule, and so on.

Model to model LoS, ranging, rather than unit to unit and so on, e.g. no taking casualties from models that are outside of a weapon's range, out of LoS, casualties limited to those models visible to the shooter.

Yes, many of these will make the game "slower" for some people, though the measuring thing will speed the game a lot, and this should be OK. This is what I WANT to do. I don't understand why people are in such a hurry to finish a game, when getting a good one together is really the hard part. Once it is set up, allow sufficient time to do it right, and do one good game. My philosophy... Greater realism, less abstraction.

Pretty much agreed with all of this.

And in my opinion:

- A lot of more restrictions, bring back 0-1, make the armies as much similar as possible to their background 40k representations, bring back personalization and "special characters only with opponent's permission".

- Make the codexes to have meaning again. Make the battle roles to have meaning again. It should be 1 codex = 1 detachment = 1 army.

- Ban from the game superheavies. Ban from the game flyers and huge flying monsters. Ban from the game primarchs, knights, mini-titans, titans and mega-creatures that have no place in a skirmish game like 40k should be.

Basically i would want to play "true 40k" again and not a "EPIC 40k in 28 mm" as it is nowadays.

Virus Outbreak so you can kill every model in your opponents army be for the first turn of the game.

 Warpspy wrote:

 jeff white wrote:
Force organization based on percentage of points and more restrictive slots.

Wargear cards, with every army having access to (at least some) effectively equivalent technologies, e.g. refractor fields.

Troop specific movement rates less than 6" in most cases.

Standard (non-random) charge distances.

Initiative.

Terrain/cover modifiers for to-hit rolls rather than or in conjunction with armor saves.

To-hit modifiers for movement, e.g fast is a neg to-hit.

1500 point sweet spot.

Less deep strike/teleport shenanigans.

Looted wagons/conversion potential for orks, but also vehicle design rules for other armies with restrictions, e.g. no more than one main gun, no more than X lesser armaments, tables for each army reflecting race-specific access to different forms of tech (wish listing more than reviving here).

Weapon location line of sight for vehicles (turrets matter, sponsons more restrictive).

Armor facing.

Templates of every sort.

No purposeful pre-measuring every thing. Once a model is picked up and put down, it stays there as a general rule, though this can be relaxed depending on the number of beer phases, the type of friend, the schedule, and so on.

Model to model LoS, ranging, rather than unit to unit and so on, e.g. no taking casualties from models that are outside of a weapon's range, out of LoS, casualties limited to those models visible to the shooter.

Yes, many of these will make the game "slower" for some people, though the measuring thing will speed the game a lot, and this should be OK. This is what I WANT to do. I don't understand why people are in such a hurry to finish a game, when getting a good one together is really the hard part. Once it is set up, allow sufficient time to do it right, and do one good game. My philosophy... Greater realism, less abstraction.

Pretty much agreed with all of this.

And in my opinion:

- A lot of more restrictions, bring back 0-1, make the armies as much similar as possible to their background 40k representations, bring back personalization and "special characters only with opponent's permission".

- Make the codexes to have meaning again. Make the battle roles to have meaning again. It should be 1 codex = 1 detachment = 1 army.

- Ban from the game superheavies. Ban from the game flyers and huge flying monsters. Ban from the game primarchs, knights, mini-titans, titans and mega-creatures that have no place in a skirmish game like 40k should be.

Basically i would want to play "true 40k" again and not a "EPIC 40k in 28 mm" as it is nowadays.

This. I'd love all of this. I'd maybe only change template rules to "units with at least 1 model partially covered by a small/large/flamer template take 1d3/1d6/1d6 hits" or something (the amount of dice is purely an example". I find not having to worry about maximising the spread of each model each phase quite nice. It's such a pain with multiple large units, I'd like to assume the unit does that automatically (just like their positions in melee are described as being fluent).

I've been playing since 1989.

I'd like to see the following return.

-Terror and Fear rules for Chaos Greater Daemons

-Veteran Skills for Chaos Space Marines

-Basilisks for Iron Warriors.

-Daemon Weapons. Yes, I realize there are few throwbacks like Soulstealer and Drachnyen.

-Axe of Khorne

-Mark of Chaos Undivided

-Chaos Vehicle Upgrades: Warp Amplifiers, Mutated Hull, Possession, Dirge Caster

Overwatch. (back in RT days?)

Old school Harlequins... BRING BACK MY MIMES and SMILEY JETBIKIES!