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 Crimson wrote:

Table wrote:

Says where? I dont really buy this piece of propaganda. Do not confuse eldrad plot armor with overall power of farseers.

Everyone know that the Eldar are the best mortal psykers. Even Farseer's rules reflect this, they have more denys and a psychic reroll. GM's fluff section doesn't even mention them being particularly über psykers, they're 'just' on par with librarians, merely better fighters.

Who is everyone. I did not know and im sure many others would contest your statement.

Table wrote:

Who is everyone. I did not know and im sure many others would contest your statement.

Well now you know. You're welcome.

 Crimson wrote:

Table wrote:

Who is everyone. I did not know and im sure many others would contest your statement.

Well now you know. You're welcome.

I’ll wager that they’re pretty much on par with one another, but neither could beat a lord of change. Maybe keep it close, but not win.

 Crimson wrote:

Table wrote:

Who is everyone. I did not know and im sure many others would contest your statement.

Well now you know. You're welcome.

I disagree. Clearly sanctioned Imperial Psykers are far stronger. Because I said so.

Table wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

Table wrote:

Who is everyone. I did not know and im sure many others would contest your statement.

Well now you know. You're welcome.

I disagree. Clearly sanctioned Imperial Psykers are far stronger. Because I said so.

So you have somehow managed to miss the fact that one of the defining features of the Eldar is their psychic mastery?

 Crimson wrote:

Table wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

Table wrote:

Who is everyone. I did not know and im sure many others would contest your statement.

Well now you know. You're welcome.

I disagree. Clearly sanctioned Imperial Psykers are far stronger. Because I said so.

So you have somehow managed to miss the fact that one of the defining features of the Eldar is their psychic mastery?

They are more apt with the psychic abilities they have and are more knowledgeable of the ways of the warp but they don't necessarily have more raw psychic power.

 mrhappyface wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

Table wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

Table wrote:

Who is everyone. I did not know and im sure many others would contest your statement.

Well now you know. You're welcome.

I disagree. Clearly sanctioned Imperial Psykers are far stronger. Because I said so.

So you have somehow managed to miss the fact that one of the defining features of the Eldar is their psychic mastery?

They are more apt with the psychic abilities they have and are more knowledgeable of the ways of the warp but they don't necessarily have more raw psychic power.

This is true. Is not that Eldar Psychers are just more powerfull, is that the Eldar as a race, is a psychic race. The manipulation of the warp comes naturally to Eldars. Artists, artisans, all of them use it in a daily basis in a very natural way.

You don't have that with humans. Yeah, a SM Librarian can be, in raw power, as powerfull as a Eldar Farseer, and if they face power vs power like a kamehameha duel, they could be equal. But that Eldar Farseer will have a much higher understanding of the warp, and will know how to use it in a ton of different ways.

Just gotta wait for the emperor to reincarnate and lead humanity to become the next psychic race without the whole Slaanesh 2.0 business...

I fully expect him to make things much worse while every race that can tries to find a different galaxy to live in.

pm713 wrote:
I fully expect him to make things much worse while every race that can tries to find a different galaxy to live in.

Heresy!! (No, you’re probably right )

Eldar psykers are very limited in that they use runes, not warp directly. If the Farseer (even an ordinary warlock) uses his real power, he will easily defeat the librarian. But then it will be devoured immediately by demons.

darkoms wrote:
Eldar psykers are very limited in that they use runes, not warp directly. If the Farseer (even an ordinary warlock) uses his real power, he will easily defeat the librarian. But then it will be devoured immediately by demons.

The eldar use runes to focus and guide them as well as hide them from she/he. Its not some final form business from dragon ball z. I mean Ahriman and his band of misfits have been taking the piss out of the eldar in their own webway. And I would not call Ahriman or his 1kcronies "the most powerful psykers". I am afraid much fan boy hype is present. That is, unless anyone has any hard lore to disprove this.

Table wrote:

The eldar use runes to focus and guide them as well as hide them from she/he. Its not some final form business from dragon ball z. I mean Ahriman and his band of misfits have been taking the piss out of the eldar in their own webway. And I would not call Ahriman or his 1kcronies "the most powerful psykers". I am afraid much fan boy hype is present. That is, unless anyone has any hard lore to disprove this.

What? Ahriman is easily the most powerful human originated Psyker sans some Daemon Primarchs and the Emperor...

You're completely clueless about this. There is really no lore about GK Grand Masters being particularly amazing psykers, sure, they're pretty damn powerful, but not better than Librarians (granted, in this specific task, namely defeating a daemon, they probably have some tricks in their ceramite sleeves.)

The Farseers are the top psykers of a race known for their psychic mastery and they have rules to back it up.

The only reason I specified Grey Knights is due to their anti-daemon capabilities.

In psychic power, they're high Space Marine tier, the same as a standard Farseer, but a good Farseer is a better psyker. However, I say that Grey Knights might stand a chance due to their warding, and specific anti-Daemonic knowledge, which is what the Eldar do lack.

So, purely on psychic power, sure, Eldar are better, but if we're actually looking at their entire range of equipment and skills, Grey Knights are hard to deny as being good anti-Daemon units.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
The only reason I specified Grey Knights is due to their anti-daemon capabilities.

In psychic power, they're high Space Marine tier, the same as a standard Farseer, but a good Farseer is a better psyker. However, I say that Grey Knights might stand a chance due to their warding, and specific anti-Daemonic knowledge, which is what the Eldar do lack.

So, purely on psychic power, sure, Eldar are better, but if we're actually looking at their entire range of equipment and skills, Grey Knights are hard to deny as being good anti-Daemon units.

This is why I also think a GK Grandmaster would be one of the best choices. Everyone is discounting their sheer strength of mind in terms of psychic resistance.

A weirdboy surrounded by 30 boyz.

Marbo, of course. The lord of change attempts to call upon the power of the warp, and realizes that Marbo has infiltrated its brain and replaced the warp with a demolition charge. The lord of change explodes, Marbo grins smugly as everything unfolds Just As Planned.

 Peregrine wrote:
Marbo, of course. The lord of change attempts to call upon the power of the warp, and realizes that Marbo has infiltrated its brain and replaced the warp with a demolition charge. The lord of change explodes, Marbo grins smugly as everything unfolds Just As Planned.

But only a tactical genius could pull that off!

 Galas wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

Table wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

Table wrote:

Who is everyone. I did not know and im sure many others would contest your statement.

Well now you know. You're welcome.

I disagree. Clearly sanctioned Imperial Psykers are far stronger. Because I said so.

So you have somehow managed to miss the fact that one of the defining features of the Eldar is their psychic mastery?

They are more apt with the psychic abilities they have and are more knowledgeable of the ways of the warp but they don't necessarily have more raw psychic power.

This is true. Is not that Eldar Psychers are just more powerfull, is that the Eldar as a race, is a psychic race. The manipulation of the warp comes naturally to Eldars. Artists, artisans, all of them use it in a daily basis in a very natural way.

You don't have that with humans. Yeah, a SM Librarian can be, in raw power, as powerfull as a Eldar Farseer, and if they face power vs power like a kamehameha duel, they could be equal. But that Eldar Farseer will have a much higher understanding of the warp, and will know how to use it in a ton of different ways.

Wonder why farseer's aren't shown to do tricks human alpha psykers can do. Those alpha's make mockery of librarians etc capable of swatting titans aside if so comes. Far above your average human psyker.

Farseers in game term are seriously watered down if they still can beat those alpha psykers.

tneva82 wrote:

Wonder why farseer's aren't shown to do tricks human alpha psykers can do.

Because BL doesn't write so many books about Eldar.

What about tyranid psychers? I don't know how powerful the loc is but zoanthrope broods and maleceptors are incredible psychers. Can somebody with knowledge of both please compare them?

 LeviathanSwarmlord wrote:
What about tyranid psychers? I don't know how powerful the loc is but zoanthrope broods and maleceptors are incredible psychers. Can somebody with knowledge of both please compare them?

There's only one instance of Daemons Vs Nids that I can think of and during that conflict the Daemons outmatched the Nids in all aspects except for resources: the Nids had a planet worth of biomass to fuel them whilst the Daemons had a large warp portal and that's it. The Nids just kept throwing bodies at the Daemons until the Nurgle Daemons were destroyed in an attempt to break the stailmate, the Tzeentch Daemons left because no souls were being reaped and the Slaanesh and Khorne Daemons were pushed back into the warp by a sea of a dead Nids.

No mention of the Daemons being affected by Nids warp abilities though and the LoC who lead the Tzeentch forces was not harmed by the Nids.

Since I saw someone mistake Ahriman as the most powerful human originated psyker it made me think of the actual most powerful human originated psyker; Malcador. I wonder if he'd give a LoC a good match. Oh but average. Well on average the eldar race smokes any average human psyker. Bear in mind the psyker's in military roles for Imperium number far far less then the much much more common and average psyker whom fills the role of astropaths as well as the long line up of psykers being fed to that soul eating daemon on the golden throne. If we worked out averages they'd end up representing it.

Malcador, if he was around, would definitely be a match. Shocked he slipped my mind but good catch.

 ProwlerPC wrote:
Since I saw someone mistake Ahriman as the most powerful human originated psyker it made me think of the actual most powerful human originated psyker; Malcador. I wonder if he'd give a LoC a good match. Oh but average. Well on average the eldar race smokes any average human psyker. Bear in mind the psyker's in military roles for Imperium number far far less then the much much more common and average psyker whom fills the role of astropaths as well as the long line up of psykers being fed to that soul eating daemon on the golden throne. If we worked out averages they'd end up representing it.

Malcador is 100% dead (not only mostly dead like the Emperor, he is completely dead). I assumed that means he does not qualify.

darkoms wrote:
Who can defeat the Lord of Changes in a psychic duel? I'm not talking about the most powerful like Kairos, but let's say the average Lord of Changes.
Can the average tyranid Maleceptor or Eldar Farseer/Wraithseer/Shadowseer defeat the Great Daemon of Tzeentch?
We are talking about the average against the average, that is, there is no Magnus or Eldrad.

Considering how the "average" lord of change is a creature born from the god of sorcery...no. No average mortal can beat it.

 Crimson wrote:

Table wrote:

The eldar use runes to focus and guide them as well as hide them from she/he. Its not some final form business from dragon ball z. I mean Ahriman and his band of misfits have been taking the piss out of the eldar in their own webway. And I would not call Ahriman or his 1kcronies "the most powerful psykers". I am afraid much fan boy hype is present. That is, unless anyone has any hard lore to disprove this.

What? Ahriman is easily the most powerful human originated Psyker sans some Daemon Primarchs and the Emperor...

You're completely clueless about this. There is really no lore about GK Grand Masters being particularly amazing psykers, sure, they're pretty damn powerful, but not better than Librarians (granted, in this specific task, namely defeating a daemon, they probably have some tricks in their ceramite sleeves.)

The Farseers are the top psykers of a race known for their psychic mastery and they have rules to back it up.

Rules do not mirror lore. If I have no clue about this subject then please, educate me. Procure some tangible documentation to back your claim. Getting puffy helps no one here. Once I can read some hard lore on your statement I will gladly accept that my previous statements were made in ignorance.

Until then this is just rampant fanboyism.

Table wrote:

Rules do not mirror lore.

Even if rules do not reflect lore perfectly, doesn't mean they don't reflect it at all. Space marines are physically stronger than normal humans, thus they have better strength score.

If I have no clue about this subject then please, educate me. Procure some tangible documentation to back your claim. Getting puffy helps no one here. Once I can read some hard lore on your statement I will gladly accept that my previous statements were made in ignorance.

If you have somehow missed that the whole niche of Eldar is being a psychic master race, then you're beyond help.

 Crimson wrote:

Table wrote:

Rules do not mirror lore.

Even if rules do not reflect lore perfectly, doesn't mean they don't reflect it at all. Space marines are physically stronger than normal humans, thus they have better strength score.

If I have no clue about this subject then please, educate me. Procure some tangible documentation to back your claim. Getting puffy helps no one here. Once I can read some hard lore on your statement I will gladly accept that my previous statements were made in ignorance.

If you have somehow missed that the whole niche of Eldar is being a psychic master race, then you're beyond help.

Just because you say or think something does not make it true. I am asking you to back up your claim. Which you will not do. I cant go any further until you do. Because honestly at this point you come across as a eldar fanboy that is getting his feathers ruffled. And I do not mean that as a insult.
If you are going to make a blanket statement you need proof. You have none. Please educate me. Until that time I say eldar are no more powerful than human because I have yet to read any official lore stating this. And Black Library sadly does not count.

For the last time. Please provide proof to back your claim.

Table wrote:

Just because you say or think something does not make it true. I am asking you to back up your claim. Which you will not do. I cant go any further until you do. Because honestly at this point you come across as a eldar fanboy that is getting his feathers ruffled. And I do not mean that as a insult.
If you are going to make a blanket statement you need proof. You have none. Please educate me. Until that time I say eldar are no more powerful than human because I have yet to read any official lore stating this. And Black Library sadly does not count.

For the last time. Please provide proof to back your claim.

By quickly skimming the codex:

Codex Craftworlds
wrote: Beyond these physical superiorities, each of their race is also psychic to one extent or another; it is said the ancient Aeldari could read thoughts at a glance, whilst those who trained their minds for war could crush a foe’s weapon with a simple narrowing of the eyes. Even the complex technology of the craftworlds is based upon psychic engineering, the manipulation of and creation of matter using mental energies alone. But such raw power has its price.

Craftworld Ulthwé is home to many of the most powerful psykers in the galaxy.

The latent psychic talent of the Aeldari and the incredible discipline of the Asuryani combine to produce some of the most formidable psykers in the galaxy, capable of bolstering their allies, hindering their foes and unleashing raw destructive power.

Asking source for the Eldar being the most psychic race like is asking source for Orks being green.