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Made in ru
Fresh-Faced New User




Who can defeat the Lord of Changes in a psychic duel? I'm not talking about the most powerful like Kairos, but let's say the average Lord of Changes.
Can the average tyranid Maleceptor or Eldar Farseer/Wraithseer/Shadowseer defeat the Great Daemon of Tzeentch?
We are talking about the average against the average, that is, there is no Magnus or Eldrad.
   
Made in ca
Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'




Kapuskasing, ON

If it went on average then I don't believe any. Which is the point. A hero rises above the average to defeat the powerful threat.
   
Made in us
Member of the Malleus






A Grey Knight Grandmaster could probably hold is own against a Lord of Change.

TheMostWize:
Successful Trades: 6
With: Khestra the Unbeheld(2), jason2250, warriorpriest, ironsilk, Helbig, Zero_Cool, FishFuzz99, tomjoad, Uriels_Flame, Corbett (3) 
   
Made in us
Battle-tested Knight Castellan Pilot






What about Draigo (Supreme Grand Master of the Grey Knights)?

SG

40K - Imperial Knights (House Hawkshroud) with Imperial Guard allies
AoS - Seraphon
Warhammer Underworlds - Garrek’s Reavers

*** I only play for fun. I do not play competitively. *** 
   
Made in us
Member of the Malleus






Draigo certainly could but he is on the level of Eldrad etc. In that he is an outlier in power not the norm for a grandmaster. I mean the guy banished a daemon Prince on his first day on the job as a grey knight.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/02/26 20:17:22


TheMostWize:
Successful Trades: 6
With: Khestra the Unbeheld(2), jason2250, warriorpriest, ironsilk, Helbig, Zero_Cool, FishFuzz99, tomjoad, Uriels_Flame, Corbett (3) 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar






In game terms -
Nothing short of a FW or Magnus stands a chance against a LOC in a psychic duel. Even if melle is considered...it only gets worse for the opposing psyker - LOC is very good in CC.

A 6 man unit of Zonethropes is probably the most capable non super hero capable of facing off with only psychic powers.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in fi
Chaplain with Hate to Spare






Farseers probably would at least have a change. They're pretty much the best mortal psykers in existence.

Only the insane have strength enough to prosper. Only those who prosper may truly judge what is sane. 
   
Made in us
Stoic Grail Knight




A Psi-Titan is technically not a superhero and only has 1 Psyker if I recall



That aside, Farseers shouild do half-decent as well as Grey Knight Librarians.
   
Made in gb
Mighty Brass Scorpion of Khorne





Why Aye Ya Canny Dakkanaughts!

I suppose it would also depend on the location of the duel, i.e. is it happening on some random world where the LoC was temporarily summoned or is this happening in the warp, maybe even in Tzeentch's realm?

Ghorros wrote:
The moral of the story: Don't park your Imperial Knight in a field of Gretchin carrying power tools.
 Marmatag wrote:
All the while, my opponent is furious, throwing his codex on the floor, trying to slash his wrists with safety scissors.
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so f***ing what." - Stephen Fry
 
   
Made in ru
Fresh-Faced New User




Why do people say to Draigo ? When I wrote about the average against the average, I meant that there were no big names. So I clarified about Eldrad and Magnus, but it also includes everyone like them, like Draigo or Emperor or Doom of Malan'tai
   
Made in gb
Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine






A really, really, really lucky weirdboy.
   
Made in gb
Mighty Brass Scorpion of Khorne





Why Aye Ya Canny Dakkanaughts!

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
A really, really, really lucky weirdboy.

Wouldn't he just after to believe hard enough?

Ghorros wrote:
The moral of the story: Don't park your Imperial Knight in a field of Gretchin carrying power tools.
 Marmatag wrote:
All the while, my opponent is furious, throwing his codex on the floor, trying to slash his wrists with safety scissors.
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so f***ing what." - Stephen Fry
 
   
Made in gb
Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine






 mrhappyface wrote:
 An Actual Englishman wrote:
A really, really, really lucky weirdboy.

Wouldn't he just after to believe hard enough?

Needs da blessin of gork or mork (but not too much mind).
   
Made in ru
Fresh-Faced New User




So what about the tyranid maleceptor? I would say that zoonthropes and neurotropes can take on the horrors of Tzeentch and flamers of Tzeentch , but what about the battle of larger monsters?
   
Made in gb
Wight Lord with the Sword of Kings






UK

Jurgen would pick his nose and shoot it in the head with his melta gun and then make some tea,

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in ca
Chaplain with Hate to Spare





 Mr Morden wrote:
Jurgen would pick his nose and shoot it in the head with his melta gun and then make some tea,


and Commissar Cain would get the credit for the kill

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in nl
Wrathful Warlord Titan Commander





Somewhere... over the rainbow

Lords of Change are some of the most powerful psykers in existence. No way the average farseer or librarian even stands a bit of a chance against them. Only really powerful individuals like Eldrad can clash minds with a Lord of Change and come out on top. Others would just be driven insane.
So an average LoC will win vs any other 'average' psyker.

А сегодня, что для завтра сделал Я?
But today I don't feel like doing anything... 
   
Made in gb
Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard




Nottingham

Your average Grey Knight Grand Master or Supreme Grand Master, maybe - but they'd be about the only things I reckon could do it. Eldar, good as they are, are not up to snuff for this one.

Read the history of the Charadon Crusade: The Crusade of Fury was at an end.
Join the Crion Crusade: I think it's the combination of butt jokes, democratic necrons, explosions, and mind-fething that draws people to this Crusade like moths to a bug zapper - War Kitten
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DR:90S++G++MB+IPw40k07-D++A++/sWD366R++T(F)DM+ 
   
Made in fi
Chaplain with Hate to Spare






 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Your average Grey Knight Grand Master or Supreme Grand Master, maybe - but they'd be about the only things I reckon could do it. Eldar, good as they are, are not up to snuff for this one.

What? Farseers are certainly more capable psykers than Grey Knight Grand Masters.

Only the insane have strength enough to prosper. Only those who prosper may truly judge what is sane. 
   
Made in us
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker





The average Lord of Change is a rival for Magnus. The average anything else isn't even going to come close.
   
Made in hk
Ultramarine Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control




The Emperor can definitely defeat LoC, but that id a "god level" being.......
Remember GK Brother Captain Stern? He had defeat one of this greater daemon more than once, but got cursed by it. I think Draigo might be able to defeat LoCs as well, he might have encountered them many times walking in the warp.
   
Made in gb
Mighty Brass Scorpion of Khorne





Why Aye Ya Canny Dakkanaughts!

Neophyte2012 wrote:
The Emperor can definitely defeat LoC, but that id a "god level" being.......

First he'd have to find a way around the whole being dead thing.

Ghorros wrote:
The moral of the story: Don't park your Imperial Knight in a field of Gretchin carrying power tools.
 Marmatag wrote:
All the while, my opponent is furious, throwing his codex on the floor, trying to slash his wrists with safety scissors.
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so f***ing what." - Stephen Fry
 
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Buffalo, NY

Malcador: Bring out yer dead!
[Rogal Dorn appears with the Emperor slung over his shoulder]
Rogal Dorn: Here's one.
M: Nine pence.
Emperor: I'm not dead.
M: What?
RD: Nothing. [hands Malcador his money] There's your nine pence.
E: I'm not dead!
M: 'Ere, he says he's not dead.
RD: Yes he is.
E: I'm not.
M: He isn't.
RD: Well, he will be soon, he's very hurt.
E: I'm getting better.
RD: No you're not, you'll be stone dead in a moment.
M: Well, I can't take him like that. It's against regulations.
E: I don't want to go on the throne.
RD:' Oh, don't be such a baby.
M: I can't take him.
E: I feel fine.
RD: Oh, do me a favor.
M: I can't.
RD: Well, can you hang around for a couple of minutes? He won't be long.
M: I promised I'd be at Fenris. They've lost nine today.
RD: Well, when's your next round?
M: Thursday.
E: I think I'll go for a walk.
RD: You're not fooling anyone, you know. Isn't there anything you could do?
E: I feel happy. I feel happy.
[Malcador paces for an idea, then whacks the body with his club, solving the problem]
RD: Ah, thank you very much.
M: Not at all. See you on Thursday.
RD: Right.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/02/27 01:54:37


Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia 
   
Made in ru
Fresh-Faced New User




 Iron_Captain wrote:
Lords of Change are some of the most powerful psykers in existence. No way the average farseer or librarian even stands a bit of a chance against them. Only really powerful individuals like Eldrad can clash minds with a Lord of Change and come out on top. Others would just be driven insane.
So an average LoC will win vs any other 'average' psyker.

What about the tyranid maleceptor?
   
Made in ca
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler




 Crimson wrote:
 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Your average Grey Knight Grand Master or Supreme Grand Master, maybe - but they'd be about the only things I reckon could do it. Eldar, good as they are, are not up to snuff for this one.

What? Farseers are certainly more capable psykers than Grey Knight Grand Masters.


Says where? I dont really buy this piece of propaganda. Do not confuse eldrad plot armor with overall power of farseers.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/05 12:28:51


 
   
Made in no
Powerful Ushbati





Bergen

Quantaty is a qualaty in it's own, so the hive mind has projected into my mind.

I am a dyslectic, so bear with me.

Dyslectics in a text based environment? Dakka is aware of you and sympathises with any troubles you have: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/505863.page

Kronos biovore box fresh sporemines. Denying psykick powers since 2017.

 
   
Made in fi
Chaplain with Hate to Spare






Table wrote:

Says where? I dont really buy this piece of propaganda. Do not confuse eldrad plot armor with overall power of farseers.

Everyone know that the Eldar are the best mortal psykers. Even Farseer's rules reflect this, they have more denys and a psychic reroll. GM's fluff section doesn't even mention them being particularly über psykers, they're 'just' on par with librarians, merely better fighters.

Only the insane have strength enough to prosper. Only those who prosper may truly judge what is sane. 
   
Made in es
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets




Vigo. Spain.

I don't see where people get that Grey Knights are some uber psycher. They are strong psychers over-specialized in protection and banishement of daemons and trained to work together in rituals and as a team, but I have never seen stated for them to be specially powerfull compared with things like normal Librarians, individually, in relation to their psychic power.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/05 16:37:56


 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
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Made in gb
Keeper of the Holy Orb of Antioch





avoiding the lorax on Crion

PSI Titan, probbly only thing.

i mean it is also a full warlord so even if Psi fails, it has huge ass guns

Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.

"May the odds be ever in your favour"

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.

FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.  
   
Made in fi
Chaplain with Hate to Spare






 Galas wrote:
I don't see where people get that Grey Knights are some uber psycher. They are strong psychers uber-specialized in protection and banishement of daemons and trained to work together in rituals and as a team, but I have never seen stated for them to be specially powerfull compared with things like normal Librarians, individually, in relation to their psychic power.

Yep.

Only the insane have strength enough to prosper. Only those who prosper may truly judge what is sane. 
   
 
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