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 Primark G wrote:
I am sure there will be more Primaris units probably this edition too.

I'm sure primaris will get tons of new releases not only in this edition but also in the following one. But GW policy has resurrected gen cult, harlequins and wulfen. I'm also sure they'll resurrect standard SM in the future.


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 Crimson wrote:

 Blackie wrote:

Once people lose interest in primaris I bet GW will re-do the 1W SM once again. It will take a few years of course, but probably not as many as people think. Regular marines could even be in starter set of 10 edition already. 5-6 years with no basic SM releases at most.

Frankly, you're delusional.

No really, I have a SW army that I consider done. No matter what the codex buffs or the new releases about SW will be, I won't buy other models, my collection is complete. And I'm sure I'd have the chance to play with those models forever.

I also hate generic SM, especially ultramarines, not only primaris. So releasing primaris or standard SM makes no difference to me, I can't stand them all .

grouchoben wrote:Play primaris, they look great, have some great units and are future proof, as marines transition to their new incarnation in the coming years.

I am not saying you are wrong, but do you have proof of this? This is the first I have herd of it. I haven't read anything of saying Primaris Marines will be replacing old marines.

You haven't read it because they don't want to outright say it. It is obvious though, given time it will certainly happen.

Some of the primaris look good [Intercessors, hellblasters], some, well, don't [agressors, inceptors].

I'm not actually a fan of them, because their performance has been lacking compared to regular marines, at least the the tables that I've played on and seen.

I'd, for now, just stick with normal marines. Primaris aren't a bad choice, considering that they're almost guaranteed to eventually get a buff, but I feel like normal marines and their variants are just stronger right now, and should form the core of the force with Primaris attached. I think that they have uses in support of normal marines, but they're not "I can build a whole army out of these" core unit type roles.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
Some of the primaris look good [Intercessors, hellblasters], some, well, don't [agressors, inceptors].

I'm not actually a fan of them, because their performance has been lacking compared to regular marines, at least the the tables that I've played on and seen.

I'd, for now, just stick with normal marines. Primaris aren't a bad choice, considering that they're almost guaranteed to eventually get a buff, but I feel like normal marines and their variants are just stronger right now, and should form the core of the force with Primaris attached. I think that they have uses in support of normal marines, but they're not "I can build a whole army out of these" core unit type roles.

I don't think right now they're INTENDED to be a "I can form a full fledged army out of primaris marines" army. (although you can, in the same way you can field custodes grey knights or any of the other 'works better in soup' armies by itself)

GW went out of their way to make Primaris Marines a supplement for standard marines rather then an outright replacement. It would have been VERY VERY easy to make Intercessor squads "tac squads but better in every way" it would have been very VERY easy to make interceptor squads "better assault marines" etc.

that said I do think we're going to see a Primaris wave 2 that will fill in a few of the more obvious gaps. I doubt we'll see many new vehicles, (chances are as time goes on GW'll just issue new slightly bigger kits of things like the predator etc and say Primaris Marines use a differant pattern of the old classics)

assuming then that Primaris Wave 2 will consist mostly if not exclusivly of INFANTRY my guess for wave too is as follows.


1st: some sort of infantry anti-vehicle weapon, rather then the large combined weapons teams of standard Marines however, I'm thinking they're going to follow the Pattern of "smaller units, greater volume of and or more effective firepower"
My guess is we'll see a "heavy weapons team" type unit, consisting of two primaris Marines manning a MASSIVE weapon like a "Gatling Las cannon" or something. it'll be a unit that in practice is really only good if you can get it to fire in the tier 1 alpha strike and largely too expensive otherwise.
2ndly Primaris Marines are gonna need some sort of veteran unit. my guess is we'll see a MK X terminator varient. but it'll proably have some sort of weakness to make standard terminators not crap. Maybe a unified unchangeable weapons profile of a bolt rifle and a power sword. so if you want power fists and an assault cannon you gotta go with tatical termies.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
Some of the primaris look good [Intercessors, hellblasters], some, well, don't [agressors, inceptors].

Even that's highly subjective though. I absolutely love the look of the Inceptors and quite like Aggressors too.

I've been in and out of the game since a 2e, but what's got me so active right now is essentially Primaris and how great I think their aesthetic is.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
Some of the primaris look good [Intercessors, hellblasters], some, well, don't [agressors, inceptors].

I'm not actually a fan of them, because their performance has been lacking compared to regular marines, at least the the tables that I've played on and seen.

I'd, for now, just stick with normal marines. Primaris aren't a bad choice, considering that they're almost guaranteed to eventually get a buff, but I feel like normal marines and their variants are just stronger right now, and should form the core of the force with Primaris attached. I think that they have uses in support of normal marines, but they're not "I can build a whole army out of these" core unit type roles.

What you said is a disservice on more than one level. First you don’t really know based upon actual experience but you repeat it verbatim.

These are actually all rock solid units.

 Primark G wrote:

These are actually all rock solid units.

Until you take them to anything other than a friendly game.

I would not expect any sane, competent person to play tactical squads in their current condition. Nor would I expect someone to shell out the time and money to replace all of their power armour guys with slightly taller power armour guys (even though they DO look much better).

Id say no worries.

agressors are decent in a ravenguard list, other then that...

 Primark G wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
Some of the primaris look good [Intercessors, hellblasters], some, well, don't [agressors, inceptors].

I'm not actually a fan of them, because their performance has been lacking compared to regular marines, at least the the tables that I've played on and seen.

I'd, for now, just stick with normal marines. Primaris aren't a bad choice, considering that they're almost guaranteed to eventually get a buff, but I feel like normal marines and their variants are just stronger right now, and should form the core of the force with Primaris attached. I think that they have uses in support of normal marines, but they're not "I can build a whole army out of these" core unit type roles.

What you said is a disservice on more than one level. First you don’t really know based upon actual experience but you repeat it verbatim.

These are actually all rock solid units.

What you said is a disservice on more than one level. First you don't really know what experience Inquisitor Lord Katherine has with them. You don't have to run them in your army to see how they work. Inquisitor Lord Katherine has said (s)he's played against them, and watched games where they've been played, and read the stats. That would be enough to form a solid opinion. Second, you're doing the exact same thing you're accusing others of. You're throwing out platitudes and expecting us to take them at face value, and that's on top of your obvious bias. How much is GW paying you to shill for them?

I don't care if you like them. Hell, I kind of like them. But if you're going to argue that someone isn't arguing in good faith, then you have a lot of posts in a lot of threads to edit before you can climb on that high horse.

 mrhappyface wrote:

 Primark G wrote:

These are actually all rock solid units.

Until you take them to anything other than a friendly game.

From mounted upon a tall pony-

My plasma Inceptors and Hellblasters disagree.

How can anyone say in truth they are not competitive units?

 Primark G wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

 Primark G wrote:

These are actually all rock solid units.

Until you take them to anything other than a friendly game.

From mounted upon a tall pony-

My plasma Inceptors and Hellblasters disagree.

How can anyone say in truth they are not competitive units?

Because we've played against them.

I've never played against someone who's used Primaris models and struggled to win. They're just more expensive versions of units that do the same job.

are we talking BTW "pure primaris" or "Primaris as supplements to other marine units"

Because I've heard a lotta sucess being had with agressors using "strike from the shadows" granted this is the kind of sucess every unit with "short range but heavy firepower" has in an edition where you might have a stratigium to enable you to deep strike it

I meant the latter case. There are no equivalents to Hellblasters or Inceptors either.

Personally, I play "100%" Primaris lists but with the proviso that I mod units I really need on Primaris bodies, plus sub in Forgeworld models to cover the shortcomings (Antitank). The only two models I think are really lackluster are the Repulsor and the GravCaptain.

I especially have a lot of time for Inceptors of both variety - I don't really understand why they aren't seeing more table time. 3 Plasceptors with a JumpCap drop 10 wounds on a predator. Dakkaceptors with a cap kill 9 Boyz, and they are both cheap units. Give them RG tactics and drop them into cover, and they are a pain to move too. Their great movement mean that they can close down angles by dropping behind LoS too, then zoom up once they've cleared their target. Cagey flankers is how I play them, and they have been solid gold. My Krieg lists often have a RG Outrider detachment with a jumpcap and 3xinceptor squads these days.

Finally, I like the move towards marines being more elite. A few dudes dropping out of the sky, using cover and movement well, putting out a stupid amount of death, is kind of how Marines *should* play/feel, isn't it?

 Primark G wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

grouchoben wrote:
Play primaris, they look great, have some great units and are future proof, as marines transition to their new incarnation in the coming years.

We seem to be having a disagreement.

That is because you are wrong. Simply put true scale Primaris are great and look better than old Marines.

True scale to what? Not true scale to old marines though. Too big to be existing marines and thus unusable to use say as 30k marines

A lot of people haven't played primaris marines since the point reductions, for instance Inceptors used to be much more expensive and are now 135, which is a bargain for six heavy bolters. Still the most dangerous forces will combine primaris and normal marines, For instance scouts are just too good to pass up, and there are no primaris chapter masters.

Every chapter tactic has it's favorites Primaris marines, dark angels love Hellblasters because with weapons from the dark ages you can crank them up to rapid fire las cannons. Blood angels reivers get silly quick with all of the wounds, attacks, and extra strength. Ravenguard love aggressors because they can make an end run around the aggressors short range. Also Salamanders flame craft aggressors putting out 6d6 to 12d6 autohits with +1 to wound seems pretty strong.

My expectation is that GW won't do away with the existing Space Marine models any time soon, but I think there won't be any new releases; we'll see more Primaris units and characters instead as we go on.

dosiere wrote:
The standard Primaris look great, but the special ones look straight up awful. The terminator and assault equivalents(or whatever they’re supposed to be) look like complete gak on the table. The ridiculous number of guns on the repulsor tank makes me chuckle as well.

I don’t have to like them to play marines, which is good becuase I don’t but I do.

This is my opinion on the matter, the easy "truescale" marine are much more enjoyable for myself. The rest is eh.

I have a smallish Primaris force I'm painting up for a local narrative campaign and I think they look superboss.

I'm pretty sure the stunty marines will be slowly phased out because I think Hastings said they would be when the huge debate over the real or not real picture of the prototype Primaris was leaked last year. Hastings is almost always correct as he called the entire End Times AOS outcome, I think the Admech/Necron box, AOS Elves and others.

From a business point of view it makes sense because it'll eventually cause stunty marine players to buy a new army.

In any event, the Primaris marines will be closer to the movie marines we have in the fluff.

I've never really be interested in a marine army, but now I have a painted 2k Silver Skulls army. The Primaris Marine models are just that much of an improvement.

I have a small-ish but growing Primaris force and I'm yet to put anything truly non Primaris in there. I might have to break this rule for some solid heavy support, be it a Stormraven or Las Preds.

 Primark G wrote:
That is because you are wrong. Simply put true scale Primaris are great and look better than old Marines.

I agree they look great. But rules wise they are pathetic. These transport restrictions are fething stupid.

 p5freak wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
That is because you are wrong. Simply put true scale Primaris are great and look better than old Marines.

I agree they look great. But rules wise they are pathetic. These transport restrictions are fething stupid.

I agree, Why cant I stick aggressors in a land raider? Why Cant my captain get in a repulsor? I dont see any lore reason for it.

 Popsghostly wrote:
I'm pretty sure the stunty marines will be slowly phased out because I think Hastings said they would be when the huge debate over the real or not real picture of the prototype Primaris was leaked last year. Hastings is almost always correct as he called the entire End Times AOS outcome, I think the Admech/Necron box, AOS Elves and others.

From a business point of view it makes sense because it'll eventually cause stunty marine players to buy a new army.

In any event, the Primaris marines will be closer to the movie marines we have in the fluff.

That would mean killing off HH and thus killing off Forge World as well.

Forgeworld was doing well before it was infected by the HH

Primaris make great conversion fodder for things you want to stand out from the smaller guys. Mine are in the process of becoming Special Characters, Wolf Guard, a Night Lords Kill Team for Shadow War: Armageddon that towers over their puny cultist buddies and other bits and pieces.

Loving the new Death Guard too. Always wanted some, but never got around to buying them, and their being huge is easily explained away by being rotting and bloated.

In person I have never seen a pure primaris army last more than 2 turns on the table. I do not doubt others have seen them do better, but I have not. On a style comparison it is completely subjective on whether you like them or not, personally I find them repulsive and among the worst models I have ever seen, I also hate assembling them. I vastly prefer the mk III suits. But that is just me, what you will want to do is take a look at them personally and decide if you like them or not.