Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
The tesla arm ability would be triggered on a 5+, but the shot does miss meaning its 2 extra hits.

The problem here is there cannot be "extra" hits if you never connected with the first one.

Well, the Tesla wording isn't quite like that. It says on 6+ it "scores 3 hits instead of 1"

If there isn't a "1" hit in the first place, can you then have 3 instead? And it never says two additional hits on the rules. Just three instead of one.

I stand corrected. But if that's the case then you get no hits since the 5 miss's.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
I stand corrected. But if that's the case then you get no hits since the 5 miss's.

You do get the hits. The Smoke Launcher FAQ gives us precedent that something can happen "instead" of something that doesn't or can't happen.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Technically if you have a single relic anywhere in your army and you take another one you do have an extra, correct?

Nothing forces you to take the first free relic

BCP tesla says its turns the 1 hit into 3 hits. The 1 hit never hit so how can it be turned into 3?


Jack, I haven't met anyone who hasn't taken their free relic, much less someone who doesn't and then pays for an extra.

 Eihnlazer wrote:

Jack, I haven't met anyone who hasn't taken their free relic, much less someone who doesn't and then pays for an extra.

I knew this would be the response, but it misses the point. The FAQ tells us that we can use the extra relic stratagems regardless of warlord faction, and the free relic, while usually taken (because why not), is still entirely optional on its own.

Jacksmiles wrote:

 Eihnlazer wrote:

Jack, I haven't met anyone who hasn't taken their free relic, much less someone who doesn't and then pays for an extra.

I knew this would be the response, but it misses the point. The FAQ tells us that we can use the extra relic stratagems regardless of warlord faction, and the free relic, while usually taken (because why not), is still entirely optional on its own.

My inquisitor is my warlord. He cannot take a relic as he has no options to, however my detachment of GK can still spend CP to take relics.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Eihnlazer wrote:
I stand corrected. But if that's the case then you get no hits since the 5 miss's.

You do get the hits. The Smoke Launcher FAQ gives us precedent that something can happen "instead" of something that doesn't or can't happen.

are you reffering to the rulbook 1.1 faq?

Rulebook FAQ 1.1 Page 4
Q: Can abilities that are used ‘instead of shooting’, such as Smoke Launchers, be used if the model using them has Fallen Back, Advanced or has enemy models within 1" of it?
A: Yes. A model can use such an ability so long as it does not shoot – it does not matter whether this is because the model cannot shoot or it chooses not to.

the FAQ states something about a very specific thing and its application: ‘instead of shooting’

i dont see how that applies to the question if you can score '3 hits instead of 1' if the first one never hits...


granted, its a similar problem. but the FAQ is specifically about ‘instead of shooting’ not 'instead of 1'

Overwatch only hits when you roll a natural 6. Tesla doesn't hit on 5+ with MWBD. Unless there is a special rule saying otherwise.

 p5freak wrote:
Overwatch only hits when you roll a natural 6. Tesla doesn't hit on 5+ with MWBD. Unless there is a special rule saying otherwise.

Tesla does trigger on a 5+ with MWBD, because Tesla triggers on a 6+. A +1 modifier causes a 5 to be treated as a 6, thus triggering Tesla.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Overwatch only hits when you roll a natural 6. Tesla doesn't hit on 5+ with MWBD. Unless there is a special rule saying otherwise.

Tesla does trigger on a 5+ with MWBD, because Tesla triggers on a 6+. A +1 modifier causes a 5 to be treated as a 6, thus triggering Tesla.

No. If you don't roll a natural 6 you don't hit. You can't have additional hits if you don't hit in the first place.

Nothing says all hits in overwatch must be accompanied by a roll of 6, just look at flamers.

It comes down to wording of the overwatch rule and the Tesla rule.

Had it said that Tesla generates 2 independent hits on 6+ when you roll to hit, then surely that would give you two more hits with MWBD in overwatch on 5+. But it says 3 hits instead of 1, which arguably demands that there is a 1 hit in the first place, which there isn't on a 5.

Flamers are different. You don't roll to hit for them. Every time you roll to hit for overwatch you only hit on a natural 6, unless a special rule says otherwise.

 p5freak wrote:
Flamers are different. You don't roll to hit for them. Every time you roll to hit for overwatch you only hit on a natural 6, unless a special rule says otherwise.

Additional effects are not hitting.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Additional effects are not hitting.

You are wrong. torblind already said it. You cant score 3 hits instead of 1, if there is no 1.

Yeah, I feel like its trading your one for three and you can't if you didn't have one.

The smoke launchers FAQ gives precedence for something "replacing" an event that didn't happen, much the same way the Death Guard FAQ gives us precedence for using other codexes Stratagems on units not of that codex.

As such, there is nothing to forbid the tesla happening. We'd need an FAQ explicitly forbidding it to not trigger.

Its own wording forbids its happening.
On a to hit roll of 6 you replace the 1 hit with 3 you dont have a 1 to replace, but if you roll the 6 yes it would give 3 hits.

Ice_can wrote:
Its own wording forbids its happening.
On a to hit roll of 6 you replace the 1 hit with 3 you dont have a 1 to replace, but if you roll the 6 yes it would give 3 hits.

By that logic the wording of smoke launchers also forbids it's use after you advance, if you don't have any Assault weapons. That can be generalised much like the Death Guard one can.

Like I said, we need a good ol' Special Snowflake FAQ to change it to not work.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

Ice_can wrote:
Its own wording forbids its happening.
On a to hit roll of 6 you replace the 1 hit with 3 you dont have a 1 to replace, but if you roll the 6 yes it would give 3 hits.

By that logic the wording of smoke launchers also forbids it's use after you advance, if you don't have any Assault weapons. That can be generalised much like the Death Guard one can.

Like I said, we need a good ol' Special Snowflake FAQ to change it to not work.

Never mind