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1. Do the hit penalties stack? Example: heavy weapon moved and is firing at a hard to hit target. Is it only -1 to hit or -2 because they stack? Or auspex scan and firing both profiles of a combi weapon.

2. Do the penalties apply during overwatch?
a. Combi weapons
b. Hard to hit
c. Heavy weapon moved previously

If you guys could clarify this for me that would be awesome.

Yes everything stacks, and it's possible that the shot can become impossible to do. Exemple, Model A (4+ to Hit) shoots with a Heavy Weapon, after moving, at Model B. Model B gives -2 to Hit with an ability, Model A moved, so he has a total of -3 to Hit, meaning he have to roll a 7+ to Hit.

Dwro1234 wrote:
1. Do the hit penalties stack? Example: heavy weapon moved and is firing at a hard to hit target. Is it only -1 to hit or -2 because they stack? Or auspex scan and firing both profiles of a combi weapon.

2. Do the penalties apply during overwatch?
a. Combi weapons
b. Hard to hit
c. Heavy weapon moved previously

If you guys could clarify this for me that would be awesome.

1. Unless otherwise stated, yes, they stack. Keep in mind that one of the Rulebook FAQs (I can't remember which) says the exact same effect from the same rule don't stack unless it says otherwise, but the same effect from different rules do stack. So yes, a heavy weapon that moved, shooting at something that is Hard to Hit would get -2 to hit. Moving Plasma at Night shooting at Aircraft explodes on a 1-4. Fun times!

2. No to all. Overwatch is a fixed number always. The rule for overwatch states it always hits on a 6 regardless of any other factors. "Overwatch is resolved like a normal shooting attack (albeit one resolved in the enemy’s Charge phase) and uses all the normal rules except that a 6 is always required for a successful hit roll, irrespective of the firing model’s Ballistic Skill or any modifiers."

Thank you guys! Nice and straight forward, I appreciate the clarification.

Sooo, if i overcharge plasma with a -1 to hit, will it explode on 1’s or 2’s? Or both? Can a hit roll be modified below a 1, is my question.

A 1 can not be modified below 1. A 2 with -1 to hit will make plasma blow up. You cannot reroll it with a reroll 1s ability because it's not a 1 yet, it's a 2. Reroll before modifiers.
If you have -3 to hit plasma will blow up on 4s and lower.

Northern85Star wrote:
Sooo, if i overcharge plasma with a -1 to hit, will it explode on 1’s or 2’s? Or both? Can a hit roll be modified below a 1, is my question.

From the Designers Commentary:

Q: Can a dice roll ever be modified to less than 1?
A: No. If, after all modifiers have been applied, a dice roll would be less than 1, count that result as a 1.

So yes, an overcharging Plasma with -1 to hit will explode on a 1 or a 2. Like I said, Firing an Overcharged Plasma Cannon after moving (-1 to hit) at night (-1 to hit) at an aircraft (-1 to hit) that is from the Alaitoc Craftworld more than 12" away (-1 to hit) somehow makes the plasma explode on a roll of 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5 to hit! Because shooting things in the dark makes the Plasma Cannon's Machine Spirit feel scared!

Keep in mind the opposite is not true, dice can be modified to more than 6 all the time (that's why things that trigger on a 6 say 6+ to account for positive modifiers) and why some units have a 7+ save, they can make it if they are in cover.

Also be aware that some units do have the ability to modify overwatch, so its not always a 6 mordians can get a +1 I think is the wording so overcharged plasma as its rolling 2's minimum unless you have a to hit modifier. Tau overwatch hits on 5 or 6. GW being consistent as always.

Ice_can wrote:
Also be aware that some units do have the ability to modify overwatch, so its not always a 6 mordians can get a +1 I think is the wording so overcharged plasma as its rolling 2's minimum unless you have a to hit modifier. Tau overwatch hits on 5 or 6. GW being consistent as always.

To be fair, GW fixed the non-functional Mordian rule with an Errata, so at least give them credit for that. Forge World still haven't fixed their Slaaneshi Cultist overwatch rule.

I read the rule as written and could see what they ment it was more the this rule is unchangeable. But codex rules states it can change the unchangeable rule book rule? Rules shouldn't need interpretation.
Also thinking somethings could make overcharging overwatch insanely broken if you stacked enough negative to hits.

Ice_can wrote:
I read the rule as written and could see what they ment it was more the this rule is unchangeable. But codex rules states it can change the unchangeable rule book rule? Rules shouldn't need interpretation.
Also thinking somethings could make overcharging overwatch insanely broken if you stacked enough negative to hits.

Yes, codex rules can change the rules in the rulebook. The issue is that the printed Mordian one didn't actually give permission to change the "no modifiers" rule, it just added a modifier, which then didn't work due to the overwatch rule.

A theoretical example would be to give a unit (without FLY) a special rule to say "In a turn where this unit falls back, it gets +1 to hit in the subsequent shooting phase." Now, a unit (without FLY) can't shoot after falling back, so even though the special rule seems to suggest they should be able to, the rule itself does nothing.

I know that having played GW games long enough, but it makes teaching new players harder than it should be.

So yes, an overcharging Plasma with -1 to hit will explode on a 1 or a 2. Like I said, Firing an Overcharged Plasma Cannon after moving (-1 to hit) at night (-1 to hit) at an aircraft (-1 to hit) that is from the Alaitoc Craftworld more than 12" away (-1 to hit) somehow makes the plasma explode on a roll of 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5 to hit! Because shooting things in the dark makes the Plasma Cannon's Machine Spirit feel scared!

lmfao

What happens if you overcharge something while overwatching and having modifiers? So you allways hit on a roll of 6. But modifiers apply for the sake of overcharging. So if you have stacked -5 to hit (there is a narrative night mission with increasing modifiers based on distance, add flyer and alaitoc), you hit and also die on a roll of a 6?

Gitdakka wrote:
What happens if you overcharge something while overwatching and having modifiers? So you allways hit on a roll of 6. But modifiers apply for the sake of overcharging. So if you have stacked -5 to hit (there is a narrative night mission with increasing modifiers based on distance, add flyer and alaitoc), you hit and also die on a roll of a 6?

Yes

 Lance845 wrote:

Gitdakka wrote:
What happens if you overcharge something while overwatching and having modifiers? So you allways hit on a roll of 6. But modifiers apply for the sake of overcharging. So if you have stacked -5 to hit (there is a narrative night mission with increasing modifiers based on distance, add flyer and alaitoc), you hit and also die on a roll of a 6?

Yes

Unlikely to ever come up in a real game (literally can't in Matched play if it requires night rules!), but yes. Overwatch doesn't say there are no modifiers, it just says they're irrelevant for whether or not the shot hits, and Overcharge doesn't require that it be a miss, simply that it be a 1 after modifiers.

Gitdakka wrote:
What happens if you overcharge something while overwatching and having modifiers? So you allways hit on a roll of 6. But modifiers apply for the sake of overcharging. So if you have stacked -5 to hit (there is a narrative night mission with increasing modifiers based on distance, add flyer and alaitoc), you hit and also die on a roll of a 6?

Yes. Any result less than 1 is treated as one, even in overwatch.

Conversely If you had a +1 to hit, you could never overcharge, and Tesla weapons will generate the "extra" hits on a 5 even though it misses the overwatch.

Here is an add on question.

I need 3 to hit and the ability to reroll all misses. I have a -1 to my roll and I roll a 3. Do I get to reroll? Please provide a pg because I do not see in the rules where this is covered. My friend says I don't get to reroll.

jbunny wrote:
Here is an add on question.

I need 3 to hit and the ability to reroll all misses. I have a -1 to my roll and I roll a 3. Do I get to reroll? Please provide a pg because I do not see in the rules where this is covered. My friend says I don't get to reroll.

Rerolls happen before modifiers are applied, so that roll is a 3 until after your chance to reroll is gone. At that point it becomes a 2, but you can no longer reroll. It's in the core rules. Maybe a sidebar but not 100% sure, it's been a while since I looked at them.

So no, you don't get to reroll the 3.

jbunny wrote:
Here is an add on question.

I need 3 to hit and the ability to reroll all misses. I have a -1 to my roll and I roll a 3. Do I get to reroll? Please provide a pg because I do not see in the rules where this is covered. My friend says I don't get to reroll.

No, re-rolls happen before modifiers. This is covered in the core rules and this exact situation in the Designers Commentary. https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/warhammer_40000_designers_commentary_en-1.pdf

Q: If a rule or ability grants a re-roll on, for example, ‘hit rolls of 1’ (such as a Space Marine Captain’s Rites of Battle ability) does that effect trigger before or after applying modifiers to the hit rolls?
A: Re-rolls always happen before modifiers, so the re-roll ability is triggered before applying modifiers.

For example, let’s imagine a Space Marine (Ballistic Skill 3+) moves and fires a heavy bolter (a Heavy 3 weapon) whilst within range of a Space Marine Captain’s Rites of Battle ability (allowing you to re-roll hit rolls of 1).

The hit dice are rolled and result in a 1, 2 and 5.

Re-rolls are applied before modifiers. In this example a single dice is re-rolled because of the Captain’s ability, this time resulting in a 3.

Modifiers are applied after re-rolls. In this example there is a -1 modifier to the hit rolls for moving and firing a Heavy weapon. That means that the post-re-roll scores of 2, 3 and 5 are modified to 1, 2 and 4. Comparing the final results to the model’s Ballistic Skill, only one shot hits the target.

You have a page number? Because I am not seeing it.

jbunny wrote:
Here is an add on question.

I need 3 to hit and the ability to reroll all misses. I have a -1 to my roll and I roll a 3. Do I get to reroll? Please provide a pg because I do not see in the rules where this is covered. My friend says I don't get to reroll.

Page 178, under the re-rolls sidebar. Stats modifiers happen before re-rolls. So if you rolled a 3 that is a hit thus your ineligible to re-roll (before modifier) and after the re-roll apply the modifier and you miss.

Ok thanks. I think that is a stupid rule, but that is the rule.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

Gitdakka wrote:
What happens if you overcharge something while overwatching and having modifiers? So you allways hit on a roll of 6. But modifiers apply for the sake of overcharging. So if you have stacked -5 to hit (there is a narrative night mission with increasing modifiers based on distance, add flyer and alaitoc), you hit and also die on a roll of a 6?

Yes. Any result less than 1 is treated as one, even in overwatch.

Conversely If you had a +1 to hit, you could never overcharge, and Tesla weapons will generate the "extra" hits on a 5 even though it misses the overwatch.

So tesla immortals with MWBD would score two overwatch hits on a 5?

torblind wrote:

So tesla immortals with MWBD would score two overwatch hits on a 5?

No, overwatch only hits when you roll a 6. Modifiers (positive or negative) are ignored. Unless there is a special rule, which tesla immortals dont have.

 p5freak wrote:

torblind wrote:

So tesla immortals with MWBD would score two overwatch hits on a 5?

No, overwatch only hits when you roll a 6. Modifiers (positive or negative) are ignored. Unless there is a special rule, which tesla immortals dont have.

Sure, the overwatch misses, but does the Tesla ability still make it generate two additional hits? Look at flamers, they have an ability that lets them hit without rolling a 6.

(I don't play Tesla like this, but I'm curious about the argument)

torblind wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

torblind wrote:

So tesla immortals with MWBD would score two overwatch hits on a 5?

No, overwatch only hits when you roll a 6. Modifiers (positive or negative) are ignored. Unless there is a special rule, which tesla immortals dont have.

Sure, the overwatch misses, but does the Tesla ability still make it generate two additional hits? Look at flamers, they have an ability that lets them hit without rolling a 6.

(I don't play Tesla like this, but I'm curious about the argument)

That is correct, you get 2 hits when you roll a 5 to hit in overwatch, with a +1 modifier, with Tesla. p5freak, as usual, is wrong about very basic facts of the rules.

Modifiers still apply in overwatch, they just don't change the result when determining if you hit or not. A 5 with +1 triggers the Tesla effect, and a 2 with -1 triggers a Plasma overload.

You should play Tesla like that because playing in any other way is a flagrant breach of the rules.

The tesla arm ability would be triggered on a 5+, but the shot does miss meaning its 2 extra hits.

The problem here is there cannot be "extra" hits if you never connected with the first one.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
The tesla arm ability would be triggered on a 5+, but the shot does miss meaning its 2 extra hits.

The problem here is there cannot be "extra" hits if you never connected with the first one.

Yes, there can. Much like you can buy "extra" relics without having needed to own one in the first place by using the relic stratagem of a faction not of your warlords.

Technically if you have a single relic anywhere in your army and you take another one you do have an extra, correct?