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Harlequins are for 100% sure not the bottom 5.

GK, DW, Necrons, DE, IK are for sure.

 koooaei wrote:

IronmanKC81 wrote:
Dark eldar
DW
Orks
Genestealer cult
Knights


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Dark eldar
DW
Orks
Genestealer cult
Knights

I'd like to point out that orks can field really strong lists. Counter-meta. No armor at all. Just fields of mellee boyz. But anything else is really really low tier. Worse than witch cult. I mean literally, de can have half of the army to be witches in raiders and win vs non-horde orks without breaking a sweat.

Knights are kinda in the opposite situation. They can only field vehicles. So, as the meta is currently anti-tank-oriented (it's started to change a little, though) they can't compete and get stomped early on. But knights can dominta vs someone who decided to not focus on anti-tank.

Haven't seen a genestealer or deathwatch player after 7-th edition, so can't tell anything about them.

You haven't seen GSC or DW 'cause they're unplayable stand alone

Genestealer Cults? It looks like they have very cheap troops and they can take all of those exotic weapons.

Those rock grinder vehicles are opened topped too, aren't they? So the infantry can just stay in there and lay into people, right?

I don't get this thread. Units only need to share a single Faction Keyword to belong to the same faction for Matched Play purposes, right? By my calculation that gives you seven factions - Tyranids, Imperium, Aeldari, Chaos, T'au Empire, Crons, Orks. Why would anyone play a single-list army in this environment? I'm guessing ego-boo comp restrictions at tournaments, but if not, why?

To put it another way, why does it matter if Deathwatch suck balls when you can just throw in a load of Imperial units to plug their shortcomings?

 BBAP wrote:
I don't get this thread. Units only need to share a single Faction Keyword to belong to the same faction for Matched Play purposes, right? By my calculation that gives you seven factions - Tyranids, Imperium, Aeldari, Chaos, T'au Empire, Crons, Orks. Why would anyone play a single-list army in this environment? I'm guessing ego-boo comp restrictions at tournaments, but if not, why?

To put it another way, why does it matter if Deathwatch suck balls when you can just throw in a load of Imperial units to plug their shortcomings?

Because once you're done "plugging the shortcomings" you realize there isn't a single Deathwatch model in the list anymore.

Oh okay, I get it now.

Maybe Codex: Space Marines rules with a lick of silver paint?

 BBAP wrote:
Oh okay, I get it now.

Maybe Codex: Space Marines rules with a lick of silver paint?

You'd be better off playing counts as with bloodangels or darkangles, vanilla marines arn't cutting it in competitive meta anymore.

Quite frankly I just wish GW had given every mini dex the ability to field a legal detachment without souping.

Ice_can wrote:

 BBAP wrote:
Oh okay, I get it now.

Maybe Codex: Space Marines rules with a lick of silver paint?

You'd be better off playing counts as with bloodangels or darkangles, vanilla marines arn't cutting it in competitive meta anymore.

Quite frankly I just wish GW had given every mini dex the ability to field a legal detachment without souping.

Its not even about being competitive, the points are so bad in DE, GK and DW (along with a couple other things) that you just dont even feel equal to your other shared factions at all.

Its like my DE Bikes, they cost the same as Shiny Spears and Skyweavers (CWE and Quins bikes) but they have less AP, 1/10 the shots, no Invul, no -1 to shoot against, no AP range weapons, and only 1 option for gun per 3 guys vs per 1. They are so ridiculously bad, making them 1/2 the points still isnt good enough b.c there is no support for them (No HQ support, no powers, no stratagems)

Its problems like this that make the bad armies NOT FUN to play with......... I mean Necrons cant even get to use their army wide rules b.c players knows how to get around them.

Yeah as said, the reason to not play soup is to play a codex (or faction or whatever the distinction is).

If I want to play DE I want to play DE. Not Eldar/Ynnari, with maybe some 35 point throw away Kabalite squads for holding objectives.

I don't feel "DE are bad, just play Eldar" is a healthy situation any more than "Deathwatch are comically awful, just play a mix of Blood Angel and IG".

Taken to extreme you end up with 7th edition - here are half a dozen "good lists" and if you want to play competitively you must pick your poison. They are sort of rock-paper-scissors vs each other, but will stomp on everything else in the game, to the point where it may as well not exist.

It wasn't great for that edition - and it wouldn't be great in 8th.

7-th had more stuff since you could actually try to use tactics vs anything that was not a magic deathstar. Heck, i won a tourney running meganobz in trukks and i've faced gravcent drops, scatbike spam with knights and two ravenwings.

Tyel wrote:
Yeah as said, the reason to not play soup is to play a codex (or faction or whatever the distinction is).

I get that some people want to play Codex armies for hobby reasons, but is it really true that you can't build a functional hobby army from some Codexes or factions? I know there are certain factions that aren't competetive on their own, which is just how life works, but is it so bad that you can't build one for Open or Narrative play without allying stuff in?

On a more general note I don't really understand the objection to soup. I may be more used to the idea because I've been playing Inquisition armies for ages now, but even still it seems a little vehement.

Against inquisition soups etc mono armies stand a chance, you can go almost as hard core cheese spam fest as you want with cetain codex's and still face a tabling from a cheesy soup list.
Souping allows some very powerful combos that mono armies just can't answer. But those same problem units without the soup buffing unit from another dex isn't a problem.


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And yeah my sisters need to be imperium to make a legal detachment since GW decided to make codex custodes, and leave the sisters out in the cold.