Tyranids at Adepticon

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**Ice_can**

Just how many farseers are you taking in per detachment at the moment?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Marmatag wrote:
Farseer_V2 wrote:
Marmatag wrote:
Hive Tyrants would be better served with the commander treatment rather than a nerf. It's the same overall effect but doesn't punish people who were playing Tyranids in a more balanced manner to begin with.

And if MRC are 20 points, everyone will just take MST, d6 damage is a no brainer.

I agree with this - a limit of 1 per detachment would be a fine limit on HTs. They're still strong and a viable a unit, the game just doesn't handle 7 of them at a time well.

Totally agree. I don't think GW playtests with 7+ of any unit, regardless of role, on the table.

In truth they should consider adjusting the rules so that things are more in line with how they play test. If they have this silent intended use case, just make it RAW. We all want a balanced game. As a Tyranid player I would be fine with a "rule of 1" for repeated HQs. Any duplicate HQ must come in a separate detachment.

I just hope this GW is learning how people list build, and can incorporate it as part of play testing, I realise its probably a tine/cost issue but seriously they need to balance for the way people actually play.

**Daedalus81**

Galas wrote:
I'm sure we are gonna see a generalised commander nerf in the FAQ. Hive Tyrants, Daemon Princes, etc...

I totally support this.

**Master Chief VF**

Marmatag wrote:
Hive Tyrants would be better served with the commander treatment rather than a nerf. It's the same overall effect but doesn't punish people who were playing Tyranids in a more balanced manner to begin with.

And if MRC are 20 points, everyone will just take MST, d6 damage is a no brainer.

You'll notice most of these people weren't even using claws anyway. They were using 2x Twin Devs, for 24 shots. Because even fully degraded a tyrant still hits on 4s in shooting.

No weapon for a Hive Tyrant can deal d6 damages.

Maximum unmodified is 3 flat damages.

**Marmatag**

Ice_can wrote:

I just hope this GW is learning how people list build, and can incorporate it as part of play testing, I realise its probably a tine/cost issue but seriously they need to balance for the way people actually play.

I know right?

Ultimately i think that most of us agree here this is a detachment issue more than an individual army balance issue.

And the argument about warlocks and farseers? No, i don't buy it. People want to spam low cost options to get more miles out of their points.

**Zid**

I like the variety in the styles of the top 16 lists... however, the general spamminess of many of them is pretty disconcerting.

I do love some of those Chaos lists tho; especially the one thats basically a whole nurgle demons army with Ahriman and some PBC's tacked in. Great seeing Gnarlmaws represented in 2 of the lists too!

**Marmatag**

Can someone post a link to the missions?

The closer you are to book missions, the more spam is encouraged.

Recall, Flyrant spam sucked at LVO.

**bananathug**

http://www.adepticon.org/wpfiles/2018/201840KChampDraftScenarios.pdf

**Marmatag**

Well that kind of explains a significant part of it. I don't like that scoring at all, specifically the heavy emphasis on killing and kill points.

**lolman1c**

Did orks come anywhere on that list?

**Farseer_V2**

Not in the top 16

**Daedalus81**

Zid wrote:
I like the variety in the styles of the top 16 lists... however, the general spamminess of many of them is pretty disconcerting.

I do love some of those Chaos lists tho; especially the one thats basically a whole nurgle demons army with Ahriman and some PBC's tacked in. Great seeing Gnarlmaws represented in 2 of the lists too!

Yep the spam is lame and the real winner lists are the ones like Nick's (Typhus/Ahriman/Abaddon) that have multiple tools at his disposal.

**meleti**

Matt Schuchman has a cool list. 14 Tyranid Warriors and a Prime!

**Imateria**

Daedalus81 wrote:
Zid wrote:
I like the variety in the styles of the top 16 lists... however, the general spamminess of many of them is pretty disconcerting.

I do love some of those Chaos lists tho; especially the one thats basically a whole nurgle demons army with Ahriman and some PBC's tacked in. Great seeing Gnarlmaws represented in 2 of the lists too!

Yep the spam is lame and the real winner lists are the ones like Nick's (Typhus/Ahriman/Abaddon) that have multiple tools at his disposal.

How was Nick's list not spam (6 units of Cultists and 3 units of Pox Walkers was most of the army)?

**Daedalus81**

Imateria wrote:
Daedalus81 wrote:
Zid wrote:
I like the variety in the styles of the top 16 lists... however, the general spamminess of many of them is pretty disconcerting.

I do love some of those Chaos lists tho; especially the one thats basically a whole nurgle demons army with Ahriman and some PBC's tacked in. Great seeing Gnarlmaws represented in 2 of the lists too!

Yep the spam is lame and the real winner lists are the ones like Nick's (Typhus/Ahriman/Abaddon) that have multiple tools at his disposal.

How was Nick's list not spam (6 units of Cultists and 3 units of Pox Walkers was most of the army)?

And magic supported tzaangors. It wasn't a one trick pox walker list. The cultists could stand on their own as well as the pox walkers and tzaangors.

**Xenomancers**

Marmatag wrote:
Hive Tyrants would be better served with the commander treatment rather than a nerf. It's the same overall effect but doesn't punish people who were playing Tyranids in a more balanced manner to begin with.

And if MRC are 20 points, everyone will just take MST, d6 damage is a no brainer.

You'll notice most of these people weren't even using claws anyway. They were using 2x Twin Devs, for 24 shots. Because even fully degraded a tyrant still hits on 4s in shooting.

This guys has 7 FHT with claws and devs

https://miniheadquarters.com/rosters/details/3-adepticon-tyranids

so does this guy

https://miniheadquarters.com/rosters/details/3-adepticon-tyranids-by-nick-rose

This guy doesn't - hes playing a really different style list though - GSC with a shadowsword
https://miniheadquarters.com/rosters/details/3-brood-brothers-by-chris-blackham

**DarknessEternal**

Marmatag wrote:
HuskyWarhammer wrote:
Wow, and only one Eldar. Maybe that'll tone down some of the salt...

Or not. It IS the internet, after all.

People are playing it less because of the impending nerf. Literally all of the Eldar players I know have been practicing with the Reaper nerf in mind.

Malarky. No one self-nerfed themselves in a competitive tournament of this scale. You see these lists because they are the best at this event.

10 total Dark Reapers in the top 8 is because that's how good they are.

**Xenomancers**

DarknessEternal wrote:
Marmatag wrote:
HuskyWarhammer wrote:
Wow, and only one Eldar. Maybe that'll tone down some of the salt...

Or not. It IS the internet, after all.

People are playing it less because of the impending nerf. Literally all of the Eldar players I know have been practicing with the Reaper nerf in mind.

Malarky. No one self-nerfed themselves in a competitive tournament of this scale. You see these lists because they are the best at this event.

10 total Dark Reapers in the top 8 is because that's how good they are.

The eldar in the top 8 has 15 dark reapers and 8 shinning spears. A pretty good showing of the OP's of the codex.

**Ordana**

Just a tournament without ITC secondaries massively changing what units are viable or not.

**meleti**

Ordana wrote:
Just a tournament without ITC secondaries massively changing what units are viable or not.

And with very little terrain. There was almost no LOS blocking terrain, and players took turns deploying what little terrain there actually was. The lack of terrain changes how the game plays as much as the missions used, imo.

**Ferrus126**

Another thing to note is that there where a couple other very good players that ran the Flyrant spam list and did not make the top 16. I am not sure the Flyrant calls for a nerf I think if given time the meta will shift to take care of flyrant spam one way or another. However when comparing the Flyrant to a Daemon prince its is pretty lopsided (for a very similar cost).

**Dysartes**

Ordana wrote:
Just a tournament without ITC secondaries massively changing what units are viable or not.

Changing which set of house rules you strap onto the core game engine changes which lists have advantages? Shocking!

**Deshkar**

Got me wondering. Would the flyrants list do extremely badly on the champion itc format. May be not as dominant like in Adepticon or ETC rules but would they still be strong?

**nintura**

Can anyone link the top 32?

**Daedalus81**

Deshkar wrote:
Got me wondering. Would the flyrants list do extremely badly on the champion itc format. May be not as dominant like in Adepticon or ETC rules but would they still be strong?

They might have a slight edge in secondaries, but holding objectives would be really hard.

**Deshkar**

Daedalus81 wrote:
Deshkar wrote:
Got me wondering. Would the flyrants list do extremely badly on the champion itc format. May be not as dominant like in Adepticon or ETC rules but would they still be strong?

They might have a slight edge in secondaries, but holding objectives would be really hard.

Couldn't the mawlocs / flyrants fly from objectives to objectives and fight on em?

**Daedalus81**

Deshkar wrote:
Daedalus81 wrote:
Deshkar wrote:
Got me wondering. Would the flyrants list do extremely badly on the champion itc format. May be not as dominant like in Adepticon or ETC rules but would they still be strong?

They might have a slight edge in secondaries, but holding objectives would be really hard.

Couldn't the mawlocs / flyrants fly from objectives to objectives and fight on em?

Yea, but all it takes is a few models alive to remove their control. They can certainly be all over the board and it depends how good those devourers can be. Personally they give me no trouble, but I haven't seen that many yet.

**Xenomancers**

Can someone explain in detail why they think flyrants did well at this event but not others?

IMO the lack of eldar lifted the Nids. Eldar are really great at blasting flyrants off the table.

**Spoletta**

Ferrus126 wrote:
Another thing to note is that there where a couple other very good players that ran the Flyrant spam list and did not make the top 16. I am not sure the Flyrant calls for a nerf I think if given time the meta will shift to take care of flyrant spam one way or another. However when comparing the Flyrant to a Daemon prince its is pretty lopsided (for a very similar cost).

Objectively speaking the flyrants do need a point increase.
Considering how much stuff they do and the durability, they are overshadowing too many other selections. You either have many overcosted selections, or an undercosted one, the latter is easier.

**ChargerIIC**

Xenomancers wrote:
Can someone explain in detail why they think flyrants did well at this event but not others?

IMO the lack of eldar lifted the Nids. Eldar are really great at blasting flyrants off the table.

Not much large LOS blocking terrain. That was huge. The meta has also swung heavily in favor of high ap weapons, which flyrants ignore with their 4+ invul save. Finally, the top tournament players often jump factions based on netlists, so they tend to focus on lists with a smaller variety of units. Last time it was dark reaper spam, this time will be flyrant spam, byt he time a FAQ rolls around they will have already swtiched to the next spam list.

**Daedalus81**

ChargerIIC wrote:
Xenomancers wrote:
Can someone explain in detail why they think flyrants did well at this event but not others?

IMO the lack of eldar lifted the Nids. Eldar are really great at blasting flyrants off the table.

Not much large LOS blocking terrain. That was huge. The meta has also swung heavily in favor of high ap weapons, which flyrants ignore with their 4+ invul save. Finally, the top tournament players often jump factions based on netlists, so they tend to focus on lists with a smaller variety of units. Last time it was dark reaper spam, this time will be flyrant spam, byt he time a FAQ rolls around they will have already swtiched to the next spam list.

A few other points:

1) They can charge flyers
2) 12 Assault S6 AP0 shots each at BS3
3) Most were Leviathan for 6+++ on top of the 4++

Their melee is a little anemic at S6, but they get rerolls to wound with MRC and when they wound on a 6 then they go to AP6 and 3 damage PLUS one damage for toxin sacs (also only on a 6).