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Wow how times change I remember when folks complained GW DIDN'T do enough FAQ and clarifications.

Heck this is nothing should have seen 3th ED. You needed not only the books and a FAQ but at least 6 white dwarfs with rules changes. It was like playing magic you throw down a WD with a rules change and someone would throw down a newer issue countering it.

And yet we still had fun playing. Go fig.

Btw:

This all gets better in 2018's CA, when a lot of this garbage gets consolidated into that one book. The Spring FAQ was just a stop-gap so that we're not going full calendar years between updates. Needless to say, it will create bloat until that next CA consolidates it.

Also... most of the FAQ sections to not contain massive, sweeping changes, mostly clarifications and tweaks. Things that you can easily live without just by knowing the rules. Simply reference the documents online if anything comes up. All you would really require is the Codex, Big FAQ, BRB FAQ, CA, and CA FAQ, and I still think that is overkill. In November, you go down to needing the Codex and CA.

Also, a lot of the FAQ's are sensible:
"No, units in transports aren't off the battlefield. They're on the battlefield in a transport."

That question literally never occurred to me in all my games of 8th, despite one of my normal opponents playing scions and RG with scouts in landspeeder storms.

Isn't this a side-effect of being serious on the rules?

If you're looking for a fun time, just agree with your friend on something that works. If you go to a tournament, the you're going to have to deal with that matey

This isn’t that different from last edition, when you needed the brb, the codex, this datasheet for detachment X, this supplement book for detachment Y, this other supplement for your nonstandard traits and relics, this codex for your alliies, their supplements and data sheets and then all relevant FAQs.

And if you wanted to add forgeworld, there was even more.

My Iron Warriors list uses 4 books, CSM codex, Forces Of Chaos And Forces Of AM indexes as well as the Imperial Index 2.

But that’s because I like having More bombers and artillery and Dreadnoughts and tanks. There’s nothing stopping me from using IW rules with just the CSM codex.

Last Edition it would have taken bare minimum 1 codex and one supplement to do the same thing, not including any data sheets I might have needed to do what just the CSM codex does now

 AaronWilson wrote:
Nah... I'm playing a game next tuesday. I'll bring my Astartes codex, rulebook and datacards.

If me and my friend disagree on something, we will hash it out and continue to roll dice.

This is probably what happens in 80% of the games in 40k.

Bingo. I read the FAQ's and what pertains to my army and how it is played, and thats it. I'll keep the FAQ's on my phone, but generally most opponents will take your word on something unless it seems completely unfair and OP (which, honestly, the FAQ's removed a lot of those possibilities)

 sfshilo wrote:
The point changes are optional.

Where does it say anywhere that the point changes are optional? Points changes in CA and FAQ are official errata. They are completely non-optional changes to the rules, at least for matched play.

From the designers:

"Can I choose to use the rules and/or points for units from my index instead of the new ones in the codex once released?

In your own games, if you and your opponent agree, you can, of course, play with whatever rules you like.

In all future publications and official events though, it will be assumed that you’re using the most recent rules and Datasheets. It will also be assumed that you’re using the most up to date points for matched play, in this case, those included in the codex."

It's the digital age, so all of these come on my device that already gives me access to the sum total of all human knowledge.

So no big deal.

 lolman1c wrote:

 vaklor4 wrote:
8th will literally never be done, welcome to a living rules set. It has its flaws, but at least nothing stays totally overwhelming for very long.

I'd rather not pay full price for unfinished rules.

Rules will never be finished. That is just a fact that you, and everyone else, will have to deal with. Fine-tuning, correcting and rebalancing is a never-ending process.

The problem is, that a living ruleset is hard to integrate into GWs publishing business. People will only pay for rules if they come bound in hardback and in glossy paper.

But we should all thank Gork and Mork that we are not stuck back in 7th edition , where gamebreaking stuff like invisibility was left unchanged for years on end.

Just had a thought: Death guard includes some Daemon units, which are also in the Daemon codex. Since the Daemon codex is newer (IIRC), you need that for the latest rules for those units, making 12 documents...

(and is the CSM codex also newer than DG, meaning you should also have it for crossover units?)

Cheeslord wrote:
Just had a thought: Death guard includes some Daemon units, which are also in the Daemon codex. Since the Daemon codex is newer (IIRC), you need that for the latest rules for those units, making 12 documents...

(and is the CSM codex also newer than DG, meaning you should also have it for crossover units?)

Nope. You use the rules presented in your codex unless stated otherwise.

Yes, this does make DG Nurglings different from CD Nurglings WRT how they deploy. Was fully expecting that one to be brought in line like they did with Horrors. Not so.

STREAMLINED!!!

FAQ bloat is definitely an issue. All rule changes should go in CA and the FAQ and errata should be a searchable online resource.

These might help.

Yeah I don't see the big deal. I didn't buy Chapter Approved and don't need to. I have the FAQ on my phone but could print it out if I chose and keep it with my Rulebook. Otherwise, I have my Rulebook and my Codex. Then of course my data cards.

For my weekly DnD game I haul 6 books, a notebook, a container with chips, markers, and figures, a dice bag, a game mat, DM screen, and whatever snacks I brought.

80% Of those "required" docs could just be on your phone

or alternatively copy paste the ones you specifically need considering

I feel GW can and probably will solve this issue by releasing and charging for a compendium of all updated rules.

Welcome to warhammer 40k 7th edition... oh wait, to play at a store in 7th you only “needed” 3 sources total, rulebook, and 2 codex’s. in 8th edition you do need about 7sources and you still would take longer to play, would t finish the game and argue over rules every 30 seconds. You only have tournaments and the power gamers to blame for ruining a perfectly good NARRATIVE game that’s original edition “rogue trader” was based off of dnd, a narrative game.

Yeah I’m a “salty seventh” player, I never played in a tournament and my favourite and best army was orks and I loved them in 7th.

I can't wait for 8.1. Just release a mini BRB with the updated rules so we can get out of this mess.

It long, long, long past the time for the Codex to die and be replaced with a digital solution that can consolidate and update itself.

 CREEEEEEEEED wrote:
I can't wait for 8.1. Just release a mini BRB with the updated rules so we can get out of this mess.

At first I thought of Windows 8.1 and cringed. But yes, this might ACTUALLY work!

 LunarSol wrote:
It long, long, long past the time for the Codex to die and be replaced with a digital solution that can consolidate and update itself.

They have that and are doing exactly that.

It's quite a bit of documents. Searchable rules with links built in, inline points costs, FAQ, errata, etc on datasheets would be the way to do it.

So you bring your ipad or whatever and you have access to everything in a few clicks, including your opponent's rules. You don't need to ask to see their codex, you can just type in the relevant stratagem/unit/etc and get all the rules, FAQs, and erratas.

 LunarSol wrote:
It long, long, long past the time for the Codex to die and be replaced with a digital solution that can consolidate and update itself.

Like some kind of "digital codex"? YOUR LIVING IN A FANTASY WORLD MAN!

Read the first few comments and was meh... Buy a tablet and have all the downloads/keep up to date... Just sounds like whining to me. I have played GW games since the early 90's late 80's I think... and GW have done the same thing every edition until today (no matter what they said)...If not use to it by now ... (GW and ellipses are hand in hand). I have had fun and love the models so I will keep playing. However, if after solid rules, you are in the wrong game. GW has always been about great models, mates, customising rules and having fun.

A. Use battlescribe. Points changes are plugged into there for you. When GW comes out with their own 40k list builder, hopefully it will have matched play point values as well.

B. Actually read the FAQs. You don't have to print it, just read it. See which parts apply to your army. Large chunks of the FAQ often never interact with your army. Most other players do much the same, and when a dispute arises, you consult the wording of the FAQs to resolve it. Most games, these disputes never get to that point.

C. If all else fails and you want to be a certified Rules Lawyer, then take all of the information from each FAQ that's relevant to your army and put it into a word document (with references), print it out, and bring it to your games. Now you have that, and the rulebooks, reducing the number of things you have to bring to your game.

D. Play casual games where people don't sweat if you mess up a rule.

I do think a digital solution is better - and I don't mean ebooks. I mean an actual living-rule database. I know I say I don't like Battlescribe, but the way battlescribe does it is popular for a reason; just replace the people building the data files with a centralized GW corporate team and you've got yourself a living rule-set that can be updated as new information and changes are added.

It'll also cost the low low price of $40.99 per month and be buggier than a dune buggy covered in fleas. But y'know.

Audustum wrote:I feel GW can and probably will solve this issue by releasing and charging for a compendium of all updated rules.

CREEEEEEEEED wrote:I can't wait for 8.1. Just release a mini BRB with the updated rules so we can get out of this mess.

That would be a good solution too (once the rate of rule changes drops right off). Of course, having already replaced the indexes with codexes, replacing CA with a compendium might well rub a few gamers up the wrong way (again).

Never used battlescribe (always when I see it, I hate the format and points are usually off compared to the current codex or faq/chapter approved) however living codex's/rule books produced by GW would be awesome and worth subscription.

Well, these 11 documents are still less to remember than the basic rules in 7th edition, so I'm fine

Seriously, during my last two games both players forgot the rulebook - and guess what we didn't need it even though we only play once every two months. Yes, you need the Codex. For the mission you can use CA or create one via open war cards.
There's nothing in the FaQs that's hard to remember, most things are clarifications or discussed enough so that you can remember them. Version 3 of my DG codex FaQ is two pages I think, it's not that hard to print these out and put them in a codex. Same with index rules, simply copy the 1-2 pages (Sorceror/Lord on palanquin, Plague Marines if you use combi-weapons on the Champion) and put them in the codex.