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Your Wraithlord will usually move. So it'll be taking the -1 to hit. Note that it's still a hard choice of BL vs Shuriken Cannons for me, mostly because I find I need more brightlances than I need more Shuriken Cannons. Even at -1 to hit, you'll still average 1 BL hit/round.

Wraithlords are generally considered subpar. Think Dreadnaught, little more durable but degrading. Except that it can't go full Rifileman - with 2 heavies, a Wraithlord has the firepwoer of a Dread with 1 gun and 1 CC arm.

I gave mine the sword because it looks cool.

I find that I'm usually trying to decide Brightlance vs Shuriken Catapault on most of my heavy weapons. The only times I'm sure is my first Falcon in any list has a BL, and Guardians I either take for backfield camping with a BL or close support with a Shuriken Cannon. You're going to have to adjust to what you need/enjoy.

Personally, I'd put BL on the WarWalkers, and Shuriken Cannons on the Serpent - as the WW is going to be the most likely to stay still, and the Serpent will usually want to be moving and within 24". My Wraithlord usually gets a lot of mileage out of 2xBL, especially when using him as a countercharge threat or the equivelent of a Rook in chess. If you're advancing to charge the enemy (which isn't how CWE really likes to do CC), 2xShuriken Cannons will do better.


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Also,
Your army seems solid on heavy units, if you're looking for a balanced army. Wraithlord, WarWalkers, Serpent, Wraithguard. If you want a feel for each part of CWE, more infantry and something on a jetbike would be ideal. Which sounds like what you're into.

With what you're looking at, I'd think about where you'll get your long-range AT. Sounds like you'll have plenty of close-range weapons with the units you're looking at.

Bharring wrote:
Your Wraithlord will usually move. So it'll be taking the -1 to hit. Note that it's still a hard choice of BL vs Shuriken Cannons for me, mostly because I find I need more brightlances than I need more Shuriken Cannons. Even at -1 to hit, you'll still average 1 BL hit/round.

Wraithlords are generally considered subpar. Think Dreadnaught, little more durable but degrading. Except that it can't go full Rifileman - with 2 heavies, a Wraithlord has the firepwoer of a Dread with 1 gun and 1 CC arm.

I gave mine the sword because it looks cool.

I find that I'm usually trying to decide Brightlance vs Shuriken Catapault on most of my heavy weapons. The only times I'm sure is my first Falcon in any list has a BL, and Guardians I either take for backfield camping with a BL or close support with a Shuriken Cannon. You're going to have to adjust to what you need/enjoy.

Personally, I'd put BL on the WarWalkers, and Shuriken Cannons on the Serpent - as the WW is going to be the most likely to stay still, and the Serpent will usually want to be moving and within 24". My Wraithlord usually gets a lot of mileage out of 2xBL, especially when using him as a countercharge threat or the equivelent of a Rook in chess. If you're advancing to charge the enemy (which isn't how CWE really likes to do CC), 2xShuriken Cannons will do better.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also,
Your army seems solid on heavy units, if you're looking for a balanced army. Wraithlord, WarWalkers, Serpent, Wraithguard. If you want a feel for each part of CWE, more infantry and something on a jetbike would be ideal. Which sounds like what you're into.

With what you're looking at, I'd think about where you'll get your long-range AT. Sounds like you'll have plenty of close-range weapons with the units you're looking at.

I think bright lances on my WW and WL is the way to go for now, especially as I'm hungry for points. The sword on the wraithlord feels like a steal for 10 points, so perhaps I'll model it like that. My buddies want me to model the wraithlord actually holding the bright lance in its arms like a rifleman, but I'm worried that I might want the sword. They recommended using the sword as a bayonet for the bright lance, which would be cool, but I'm still very conscious about keeping the model adjustable. Also, it has shuriken catapults on its arms so I'm unsure how it could shoot those while also aiming the bright lance. I guess they'd be used during different occasions, though.

I think it'd be fine to use the WW as a stationary gunner with 2 bright lances, it just seems like a waste with its 10" movement and battle focus, but I guess more shuriken cannons would be an even bigger waste.

My army has solid heavy units because the stupid starter kit is all heavy support! The next thing will definitely be 3 jetbikes (farseer and warlocks) and more infantry: Rangers, Reapers, and Spiders. Spiders are my favorite Eldar unit since DoW1 and they have awesome lore. They jump through the warp? They shoot microfiber webbing that eviscerates flesh, bone, and metal? They're so cool and they look awesome, too.

Where do Eldar usually get their long range AT? Everything seems so close ranged. I've been looking at this...

I could take Guardians instead of Dire Avengers (or in addition to), but it seems like a lot of points just for a Bright Lance and extra bodies. Plus, I don't want to risk the civilians and the Guardians seem like they'd die pretty easily.

Other than this, I think the option is to put bright lances on vehicles. Since my defense comes either from mobility or durability, and since bright lances are heavy, I'd prefer putting them on durable units instead of mobile units. I might buy a falcon and give it 2 bright lances and have it be the transport for my dire avengers. I heard about putting lots of units inside transports to trim down deployment time and that sounded like a really good idea.

 Kharneth wrote:


Where do Eldar usually get their long range AT? Everything seems so close ranged. I've been looking at this...

I could take Guardians instead of Dire Avengers (or in addition to), but it seems like a lot of points just for a Bright Lance and extra bodies. Plus, I don't want to risk the civilians and the Guardians seem like they'd die pretty easily.

Other than this, I think the option is to put bright lances on vehicles. Since my defense comes either from mobility or durability, and since bright lances are heavy, I'd prefer putting them on durable units instead of mobile units. I might buy a falcon and give it 2 bright lances and have it be the transport for my dire avengers. I heard about putting lots of units inside transports to trim down deployment time and that sounded like a really good idea.

Eldar Long Range anti tank. Most competitive cookie cutter lists use Dark Reapers. Which when firing in their missile mode are S8, AP-2 and D3. Its a solid and consistent and each repaer squad is shooting between 3-10 missiles per volley. The fact that Reapers can double up with an anti Infantry mode of fire, and suffer no penalties to moving, and ignore negative to hit modifiers... and the can be buffed by Warlock Powers (notably conceal for an additional -1 to hit them), they benefit immensely from Guide and if anything on enemy side arrives from reserves they can light them up with the Forwarned Strategem... its easy to see why most 8th edition tournament Eldar lists are based around Reapers.

Falcons provide decent long range anti tank, as well as other Lance platforms like War Walkers and even Wraithlords. Of course remember that with doom and re-rolls to wounds, most of our weapons are dangerous for even heavier tanks, as of the shots that do get through, fully half of them will be Ap-3. Eldar can do an effective job clearing tanks with Focus Fire, Mortal Wound Spam from our psychers.
And our short range anti tank firepower is incredible- Fire Dragons / Wraithguard are for when something absolutely 100% must die at point blank range.

Being light on long-range AT just means you need to ensure you can get the job done other ways. You don't need it. I like having a handful of Brightlances - and with the warwalker and wraithlord, you have those.

If you were to model the Wraithlord wielding a heavy weapon in it's hands, you could put the shuriken catapaults on the shoulder mounts where the heavy weapon would have gone. But you'd need to do some remodeling to make that work well.

Guardians might be nice to add to let you swap out troops and decide which troop you want. Besides, having one Guardian unit, one DA unit, and one Ranger unit puts you at 3 troops. Not necessary, but viable. In 8th, neither the potshotting brightlance nor the backfield objective holding guardians do as much as they used to, but it still can be a thing. Guardians are much fewer points per body than the other troops. They do just as much damage as Dire Avengers per model, just with 12" range instead of 18". Some people get a lot of mileage out of WWP'ing them. I use them for where I need presence but not a huge threat. If you collect a lot of CWE, it's worth getting a unit and being familiar with what they do, even if they don't hit the table often.

 akaean wrote:

 Kharneth wrote:


Where do Eldar usually get their long range AT? Everything seems so close ranged. I've been looking at this...

I could take Guardians instead of Dire Avengers (or in addition to), but it seems like a lot of points just for a Bright Lance and extra bodies. Plus, I don't want to risk the civilians and the Guardians seem like they'd die pretty easily.

Other than this, I think the option is to put bright lances on vehicles. Since my defense comes either from mobility or durability, and since bright lances are heavy, I'd prefer putting them on durable units instead of mobile units. I might buy a falcon and give it 2 bright lances and have it be the transport for my dire avengers. I heard about putting lots of units inside transports to trim down deployment time and that sounded like a really good idea.

Eldar Long Range anti tank. Most competitive cookie cutter lists use Dark Reapers. Which when firing in their missile mode are S8, AP-2 and D3. Its a solid and consistent and each repaer squad is shooting between 3-10 missiles per volley. The fact that Reapers can double up with an anti Infantry mode of fire, and suffer no penalties to moving, and ignore negative to hit modifiers... and the can be buffed by Warlock Powers (notably conceal for an additional -1 to hit them), they benefit immensely from Guide and if anything on enemy side arrives from reserves they can light them up with the Forwarned Strategem... its easy to see why most 8th edition tournament Eldar lists are based around Reapers.

Falcons provide decent long range anti tank, as well as other Lance platforms like War Walkers and even Wraithlords. Of course remember that with doom and re-rolls to wounds, most of our weapons are dangerous for even heavier tanks, as of the shots that do get through, fully half of them will be Ap-3. Eldar can do an effective job clearing tanks with Focus Fire, Mortal Wound Spam from our psychers.
And our short range anti tank firepower is incredible- Fire Dragons / Wraithguard are for when something absolutely 100% must die at point blank range.

I completely forgot about Dark Reapers, haha. Yes, that's exactly what I did when I used them in 1k points. The Farseer Skyrunner just happened to be riding by the 3 Reapers when 5 Chaos Raptors deep struck in front of them and the rangers. Dark Reapers lit them up after being forewarned and the last raptor died to morale at the end of the turn. I definitely want some, but I don't want to spam them and I don't want to lose my friends.

I think I will use 5 of them with an Autarch with a reaper cannon and mark of the hunter. I know this is a popular choice currently because it's powerful, and it certainly sounds powerful, but more importantly it sounds like exactly what an Alaitoc Autarch would be doing. It seems like the right choice in terms of the craftworld's need and the craftworld's preferred combat style.


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Bharring wrote:
Being light on long-range AT just means you need to ensure you can get the job done other ways. You don't need it. I like having a handful of Brightlances - and with the warwalker and wraithlord, you have those.

If you were to model the Wraithlord wielding a heavy weapon in it's hands, you could put the shuriken catapaults on the shoulder mounts where the heavy weapon would have gone. But you'd need to do some remodeling to make that work well.

Guardians might be nice to add to let you swap out troops and decide which troop you want. Besides, having one Guardian unit, one DA unit, and one Ranger unit puts you at 3 troops. Not necessary, but viable. In 8th, neither the potshotting brightlance nor the backfield objective holding guardians do as much as they used to, but it still can be a thing. Guardians are much fewer points per body than the other troops. They do just as much damage as Dire Avengers per model, just with 12" range instead of 18". Some people get a lot of mileage out of WWP'ing them. I use them for where I need presence but not a huge threat. If you collect a lot of CWE, it's worth getting a unit and being familiar with what they do, even if they don't hit the table often.

I'll probably get some Guardians at some point, but I know I want 2x5 Rangers and I already have Dire Avengers. By 2k points I'm looking at a battalion detachment plus a couple other detachments or another battalion, so I might need 6 troops in the end.

Anyone know where I can buy a female farseer? I liked the female farseer in the video game and would like to have some women in my army but everything seems to look like a male except Banshees. Is there a way I could get some female minis? The farseer for starters, perhaps some other random ones as well. I found some female warp spiders, which are cool. What about others, like reapers, avengers, guardians, etc. I don't know which units are gender-exclusive, but any that aren't would look very cool with co-ed squads.

I kinda had the same thought when I started Eldar. But the thing with CWE is, outside Guardian armor, you can't tell the difference. Banshees look that way regardless of if they're male or female. Same for Hawks and Dire Avengers.

So you don't really know from looking at a farseer, aside from Eldred or if they're not wearing their Ghosthelm, whether they're male or female. And if they're not wearing their Ghosthelm, I hope they peril every cast.

Guardians are 3 male/2female for every 5, but it'd take a lot of delicate modeling work to turn those into rune armor.

Bharring wrote:
I kinda had the same thought when I started Eldar. But the thing with CWE is, outside Guardian armor, you can't tell the difference. Banshees look that way regardless of if they're male or female. Same for Hawks and Dire Avengers.

So you don't really know from looking at a farseer, aside from Eldred or if they're not wearing their Ghosthelm, whether they're male or female. And if they're not wearing their Ghosthelm, I hope they peril every cast.

Guardians are 3 male/2female for every 5, but it'd take a lot of delicate modeling work to turn those into rune armor.

That was the thought I was having. As a big medieval warfare nerd, I've heard many times the literal breast plates for women make no sense in terms of protective potential so I was thinking maybe some of the models are women in armor that does not show off their chest because its purpose is to protect them. The Banshees all look like women and throw the whole thing out! You're saying even the men have large chests? What is the use of that part of their armor?

Are there any aspects that do not contain either men or women? Also, is everything either a) an aspect, b) a guardian, or c) a spirit host?

Wraithlord, guard, and blades are not aspect warriors. Are storm guardians just (melee) guardians? Are War Walkers, Vypers, Falcons, and other vehicles all operated by guardians? So, you're either an aspect warrior or guardian, or dead. Is that right?

Are rangers and windriders aspect warriors?

Banshees are an aspect of Khaine. They take their likeness and form from the Banshees of Eldar mythology. The daughters of (I think) Morag-Hai, who wailed an moaned. Short story, but longer than I wanted to explain.

Their armor is shaped to look like a woman. Looking at them is should give the impression of a Banshee. So you don't know what the wearer would look like. The use is that they evoke the terror that a Banshee would evoke, moreso than if they just looked like normal Guardians carrying swords.

There is some fluff that says all Banshees are female, but there is also fluff that males can join that Aspect. however, their form is highly stylized compared to Guardians of the same gender. What you're seeing is not the wearer's shape.

From a Craftworlder perspective, every living Craftworlder is on a path, with the Spirit Host being the honored dead (so no longer on a path).

From a Ranger perspective, they're not willing to submit to a Path, so they are currently exiles (who fight beside the Craftworld) - but a Craftworlder would just say they're on the Path of the Outcast (or Path of the Damned, if they stray too far).

Aspect Warriors are each on a Path of Khaine. Exarchs have gone so far down that path, there is no hope of them ever taking another (known as being "lost on the path").

Guardians are militia. Storm, Defender, or otherwise. They are typically on a path, but that path may be underwater basket-weaving, or poetry, or MMA, or comparative literature. They're serving in the militia because the craftworld needs them, but Guardian isn't a path.

Windriders are Guardians on jetbikes. Vehicles are vehicles, although almost all are piloted Guardians (Crimson Hunter is a notable exception). Weapons platforms, too.

Autarchs are the Path of Command. Conflicting fluff about them being former Exarchs (most of Exarch fluff makes that flat out impossible, but it has been said), or former Aspect Warriors. The latter explains why they can take basic Aspect weapons but not Exarch weapons.

Warlocks are on the Path of the Seer who have walked at least one Path of Khaine.

Farseers are Eldar who are lost on the Path of the Seer. They are, irreversably, turning their bodies into crystal. They can live a very long time, but being a Farseer is terminal.

On the field, it's mostly what you said about being militia (Guardians), specialized monk/samurai/knight specialists (Aspect Warriors), or dead (Wraith constructs). The exceptions are listed above.

I'm sure I missed something (there's a lot in the book), but this covers everything I can think of.

The only thing you really missed is that Wraithknights have one dead twin and their living sibling inside so they're a mix of dead and living. But otherwise Bharring gives a decent summary.

pm713 wrote:
The only thing you really missed is that Wraithknights have one dead twin and their living sibling inside so they're a mix of dead and living. But otherwise Bharring gives a decent summary.

I actually knew this from DoW 3's campaign. But thanks!

Is all this in the current codex? I've been reading units individually, but perhaps I ought to read the beginning. I've bought and read so many Chaos codexes that I didn't actually read my 8th edition one. I had no idea that Eldar would be able to partially satiate my desire to play a necromantic army. I also love how the entire army rerolls to hit against slaanesh units in the fight phase. As a Khorne player, this makes me laugh.

It's a very khorney ability. I love having it. I think I've used it twice. And neither time did it help.

I hope they never remove it.

The forums are home to a ton of excellent lore. Some of it is wrong. But then, some official lore is also wrong. Much of it is stylized as in-universe reports or stories or propoganda, so there are things that are nearly certainly true, but nothing is 100%.

I'd start by reading the codex, then find a wiki. I've always enjoyed getting lost on random wikis, so much to learn, so much to read. Even about topics I don't care about.


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Edit - there's a whole subforum here on backstory/universe. Pm713 posts a lot of interesting stuff there.

Bharring wrote:
It's a very khorney ability. I love having it. I think I've used it twice. And neither time did it help.

I hope they never remove it.

The forums are home to a ton of excellent lore. Some of it is wrong. But then, some official lore is also wrong. Much of it is stylized as in-universe reports or stories or propoganda, so there are things that are nearly certainly true, but nothing is 100%.

I'd start by reading the codex, then find a wiki. I've always enjoyed getting lost on random wikis, so much to learn, so much to read. Even about topics I don't care about.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Edit - there's a whole subforum here on backstory/universe. Pm713 posts a lot of interesting stuff there.

My buddy plays Emperor's Children, so my first Eldar game was against Slaanesh It only helped out the Howling Banshees, but I used the stratagem to reroll wounds as well. 10 Howling Banshees charged 10 Noise Marines and then the Demon Prince did a heroic intervention. I had shot the demon prince up a bit earlier in the game so the Banshees were actually able to kill it by allocating 4 of them to fight him, but the remainder did not fair so well against the Noise Marines and then when Lucius charged in it was all over.

The forums here have lore? Where? I've been reading about the units that I've been building and painting, like the War Walker, Wraithguard, and Dire Avengers.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/forums/show/31.page

I'll frequently charge my DAs in after my Banshees, so the enemy's rebuttle will fall on them. They don't get Banshees -1-to-hit, but their Exarch is 2w 4++, and once you're in CC, your Banshees are worth a lot more per model than your DAs, regardless of points.

I don't treat my Banshees like a CC unit on their own. They bully weaker units, finish off wounded squads, or lead the charge when I bring half my army into CC with their big unit. They'll win against Marines, but not by as much as you'd think - S3 isn't very good.

If you want the best written, most consistent lore for the Eldar - buy an old 2nd edition Codex. This was at the height of GW's writing ability, and the lack of over-used graphics and large font meant that you got a TON of lore packed into every codex. This was also being written by the guys who were actually creating it at the time (the 2nd edition Codices were the first proper codices and the first time many random items/aspects of Rogue Trader were officially put down on paper - sometimes gathered from prior White Dwarf articles).

You will not find a better starting source - it's far better than even the current Eldar codex (all of the ones since 2nd have just been regurgitated fluff/lore, often written more poorly or worded worse).

Bharring wrote:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/forums/show/31.page

I'll frequently charge my DAs in after my Banshees, so the enemy's rebuttle will fall on them. They don't get Banshees -1-to-hit, but their Exarch is 2w 4++, and once you're in CC, your Banshees are worth a lot more per model than your DAs, regardless of points.

I don't treat my Banshees like a CC unit on their own. They bully weaker units, finish off wounded squads, or lead the charge when I bring half my army into CC with their big unit. They'll win against Marines, but not by as much as you'd think - S3 isn't very good.

Yeah, they didn't do what I expected. I really want a counter-charge unit to hold off whatever enemy gets too close to me. It might end up being my Wraithlord, but I'm looking at scorpions and banshees. I really like the shining spears because they're quick, high strength and ap, and have powerful shooting prior to their charge. I don't know how many bikes I want, though, and I'm already taking a seer council on bikes.

I think I'm going to end up purchasing a unit of each aspect warrior though because they are so cool.

Banshees can do that counter-charge against medium threats, with support. This measn throwing in your HQ and often troops too against some threats.

Against things like DPs, though, you either need some dedicated CC, tons of bodies to throw against it coupled with luck, or to step back and shoot it.

With lots of aspects, and some of them having exarchs with decent CC weapons, you also benefit from charging a unit with many things. Kinda the inverse of multicharging - instead of bringing your one deadly unit into everything in front of it, you take everything you have and charge into the one deadly unit. You need to make sure you can seperate his forces, though, because you're a space elf. You don't win fights toe to toe (except when you're OP).

The Striking Scorpion exarch gets a powerfist, but he's S3 base, so it's not the same as an SM powerfist.


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Also, typically, your Exarch dies last. So that Executioner or Star Lance lasts a while. And if you can force the opponent to split their attacks in CC, you can keep them from focusing down an entire aspect unit and it's exarch in one go.

With Eldar CC, any of it. You need to super charge them with sorcerous warp energy to get a good push.
Banshees on their own are weak.

Throw in +1 to wound in the fight phase from a Warlock and Doom from a Farseer, and reroll 1s to hit from a nearby Autarch and you've got money. Against hard targets thow in Jinx to take the edge off invulnerable saves.

If you are feeling really saucy throw in a +1 to hit buff from a Warlock and use the exploding attacks on a 6 stratagem. Or Drain for -2 to hit in the fight phase...

We really have to leverage a lot of buffs to get good performance out of our counter charge units. But we can do some real work when properly supported

Thanks guys. I wiped the floor against the Noise Marine player, losing only the Howling Banshees because they had no support and overly extended. I thought power swords would make short work of the noise marines, but I miscalculated.

I really like how the majority of the Eldar punch comes from psychic buffs because it allows for the relocation of power every psychic phase. It's very much the opposite of my straight-forward Khorne Berzerker force. I didn't feel like I had a lot to charge him with. He killed my Dire Avengers, so all I had left was the farseer and 2 warlocks on bikes, the rangers, wave serpent, and howling banshees. They probably could've done better if they were buffed and if the demon prince didn't soak up half the damage.

Stacking all those buffs sounds good on paper, but in a list I don't always have all of the psychic powers that are needed. I've only used a single Battle Rune per game so far and I've found that I prefer Conceal over Protect, though I might be investing too much into my defense. I do really love doom, I try to take runic powers that will be useful as often as possible.

How do Howling Banshees and Striking Scorpions differ? Is one better than the other? To me, it seems like Howling Banshees are simply better. Instead of s4 they have -3ap, but most things have armor so unless I'm fighting orks or tyranids, the ap seems like it'll do more than the increased chance to wound. They're faster and can advance and charge so they'll pretty much only be out of range for charging if they're on the wrong side of the board. They cannot be overwatched and are hit at -1 in the fight phase, making them more difficult to kill, though they don't have power armor like the scorpions. All in all, it seems like the Howling Banshees would make a better addition than the scorpions because I can't see the scorpions being that much more effective against chaff.

Scorpions are the better bullies - think of them like ASM/Raptors (no special weapons). Except Infiltrate instead of jumppacks. Otherwise, basically the same thing. If you can get your scorpions into some backfield weapons team or snipers or Devs, especially in cover, they'll be happy.

Banshees are more of a countercharger or fast assaulter. Don't send them after anything better at CC than a Tac squad without support. Even for a tac squad, unsupported, they'll only do OK. But either supported by buffs or leading the charge for other units, they can do work.

Scorpions typically do better at low-save models, and aren't as hosed by higher T models. Banshees do better against good-save models, but don't do well v T4+ without buffs.

Remember that if Banshees ignore overwatch, and get one model within 1" of a unit, that unit can't Overwatch anything else charging.

Scorpions used to have a nice niche in smaller casual games, as you could infiltrate if any blindspot were left open. So even if they didn't give you a spot to deploy in their backfield, they needed to spread out to prevent it - which is great for you. The beta rules nuked that option. They're ASM who trade in their jumppacks for the ability to deploy forward. But now they can't even do that turn 1. I don't find them effective in Serpents or on the main line either. You can make them work, but I think you're better off starting with Banshees and other aspects.

It really sounds like you're in a meta where you can play what you want, and have fun with it. So you shouldn't need to stack all the buffs to have fun. I often used to run Asurman as my only HQ before the book. I've now added another HQ so I can take a relic/trait (typically just a Warlock), but CWE aspects can be fun (if not the most competitive) without lots of buffs.

Conceal is a better defensive buff than Protect, but Jinx is a better debuff than Reveal. As a result i usually prefer Protect/Jinx in an all comers list. Jinx is one of the best powers at our disposal for addressing 3++ saves. And protect is good enough as a buff, especially on models with an invulnerable save.

If I run Banshees I will put a bare bones Warlock with them in the Serpent to give them a +1 to wound buff or quicken. Whatever i feel like I need. Anyway, Doom is far and away the most important spell for them, and you should always be taking Doom on your Farseer

I want Banshees anyways, so that works. I don't feel the need for deep striking in the backfield with scorpions, though that now seems definitely what they were designed for - killing backfielders sitting in cover. What I want is a melee unit that will charge whatever makes it close to my rangers/reapers on like turn 3 or 4ish. It sounds like Banshees will do just fine. Most of my enemies don't leave room for deep striking in their backfield, I'm one of the few of us who actually moves out of our deployment zone.

I do have a nice meta. I am undefeated with my World Eaters army in my group of friends, and I haven't won a single battle with them at our local gaming store. So, a little of both worlds.

Would Shining Spears make for a good counter-charge unit? They seem very good, but perhaps their cost and size makes it difficult to field them in large numbers. And they're fast so they would be wasted sitting around waiting for the enemy to come to them. I've heard that they're one of the powerful units this edition, though. Are they mostly used to push into the enemy?

So far I've taken Doom 2/2 times because there's just nothing better than it! Protect was sort of useful; I made my 10 dire avengers pretty durable with 3+/4++ saves, but it didn't feel particularly useful. I don't think I actually got Jinx off, but looking back it would've been very useful against the Demon Prince. Doom+Jinx might be a really handy combo for clearing out something I don't like.

In my second game I added a Warlock to the Banshees, but it didn't get its spell off and failed the charge so it didn't really do anything, but I also forgot I added it and didn't spend enough time thinking about what spell I should give it for the Banshees anyway.

I've got a good list of units to buy and it sounds like what I wanted to buy will do just fine. 10 Howling Banshees, 10 Warp Spiders, 10 Rangers, and 5 Dark Reapers. 1-2 more Wave Serpents and 3 Farseer/Warlock Skyrunners.

How does this list look?:

Battalion #1:

Farseer Skyrunner - Doom, Guide
5 Warlock Skyrunner - Protect/Jinx, Conceal/Reveal
5 Rangers
5 Rangers
5 Rangers

10 Warp Spiders - Exarch w/ dual guns
5 Dark Reapers - Exarch w/ Reaper Launcher

Battalion #2:

Autarch - Reaper Launcher, Mark of the Hunter
Warlock - Empower/Enervate

5 Rangers
5 Dire Avengers - Exarch w/ dual guns
5 Dire Avengers - Exarch w/ dual guns

10 Banshees - Executioner (Wave Serpent w/ Warlock)

War Walker - x2 Bright Lances
Wraithlord - x2 Bright Lances

Wave Serpent - Shuriken Cannon, Vector Engines
Wave Serpent - Shuriken Cannon, Vector Engines

Looking at it, I could drop a couple Warp Spiders, add another HQ, and turn the 3 heavies into a spearhead for +1 CP. I could also drop the War Walker and Wraithlord for Wraithguard in a Wave Serpent, but I felt weird making a 1700pt list without using a single model from my starter kit!

Banshees can do that countercharge against soft targets. Also note that thigns like Berzerkers, Banshees can take down glass cannons in CC on the charge.

Your Wraithlord can also do it, against different targets. I haven't mathed out your Wraithlord charging a DP, but against a hard target that comes to what the wraithlord protecting,it can do some decent CC damage to it, and probably finish it off in one round if it wasn't too beefy or you weakened it first. It won't kill even a Tac squad in CC, but that's what you have Banshees for. And it can do so while putting it's heavy weapons firepower downrange.

Another CC threat is, surprisingly, the Wave Serpent. It won't kill anything in CC, but nothing will kill it, either. And it'll hold the opponent there a turn. They can fall back, but you can charge again. If they don't fall back, you can, then shoot (but can't charge after falling back). Surprisingly useful in that regard.

Shining Spears are great, but like all things Eldar, relatively easy to kill. If you get the attack = excellent. If they're attacked = disaster. Eldar, despite having decent armour and strong weaponry at short ranges are still overwhelmingly single wound, Toughness 3 models. They die in droves to almost any shooting that someone can put out.

Add to that the specialized nature of squads, and your models cost a ton in certain units, and they don't have chaff like a Space Marine squad would have. For instance, if you lose a single Dark Reaper, there's no chaff body to kill...you're losing an expensive model. Same with Fire Dragons, and Shining Spears.

Eldar, while being a "good" army are not an easy army. Also some of their "cool" units are really tough to use properly. Banshees and Scorpions are pretty bottom rung as far as close-combat units, unfortunately. I take them on occasion and never once have they done anything genuinely worthwhile. Makes me a bit sad since we have a lot of odd-ball units in armies (Ork Boyz, DE Witches, etc.) who are catastrophically good by comparison.

You're on the right track with Rangers - good option as Troops and provides a useful tool to your army. If you took 5 Warlocks on bikes, ditch the coven/conclave nonsense. It's terrible.

To get benefit out of Dire Avengers you need to be advancing and making use of Battle Focus, or putting them in places to defend against charges (with their 5+ Overwatch benefit). They're nothing special, but the shuriken catapult rule for the -3 AP on a '6' is oddly effective at times. I have occasionally cut down Terminators or unsuspecting tanks with lots of shuriken fire.

I have fielded Warp Spiders a couple times and while mobile, I haven't seen much from them. Short range, not a ton of fire. For the points, Shining Spears are far better.

Shining Spears are T4 2W models, now. Still nowhere near Tac levels of durability per point, but not as squishy as they used to be.

I find it amusing you use tacs as a durability measure.

Don't know about you but they're a decent measure for people in areas like mine. They're the most common toughness and save combination so they're a reasonable standard.

We've gone to guardsmen for the most part.

Then a tactical marine has good durability.

 Elbows wrote:
Shining Spears are great, but like all things Eldar, relatively easy to kill. If you get the attack = excellent. If they're attacked = disaster. Eldar, despite having decent armour and strong weaponry at short ranges are still overwhelmingly single wound, Toughness 3 models. They die in droves to almost any shooting that someone can put out.

Add to that the specialized nature of squads, and your models cost a ton in certain units, and they don't have chaff like a Space Marine squad would have. For instance, if you lose a single Dark Reaper, there's no chaff body to kill...you're losing an expensive model. Same with Fire Dragons, and Shining Spears.

Eldar, while being a "good" army are not an easy army. Also some of their "cool" units are really tough to use properly. Banshees and Scorpions are pretty bottom rung as far as close-combat units, unfortunately. I take them on occasion and never once have they done anything genuinely worthwhile. Makes me a bit sad since we have a lot of odd-ball units in armies (Ork Boyz, DE Witches, etc.) who are catastrophically good by comparison.

You're on the right track with Rangers - good option as Troops and provides a useful tool to your army. If you took 5 Warlocks on bikes, ditch the coven/conclave nonsense. It's terrible.

To get benefit out of Dire Avengers you need to be advancing and making use of Battle Focus, or putting them in places to defend against charges (with their 5+ Overwatch benefit). They're nothing special, but the shuriken catapult rule for the -3 AP on a '6' is oddly effective at times. I have occasionally cut down Terminators or unsuspecting tanks with lots of shuriken fire.

I have fielded Warp Spiders a couple times and while mobile, I haven't seen much from them. Short range, not a ton of fire. For the points, Shining Spears are far better.

Rangers are a must because I'm playing Alaitoc and we use lots of Rangers. They're also perfect for sitting on objectives because they can be put there before turn 1 and are hard to kill without resorting to melee (which no one likes). Not to mention they're extremely cheap and theoretically can kill characters. I played against my friend's Death Guard and he was so annoyed with my Rangers (even though they inflicted only a single wound the entire game). Every turn he was buffing Typhus with a -1 to hit spell. Even though they don't actually have much firepower, they sure to some psychological damage to the opposing player. I think with 15-20 Rangers and an Autarch Hunter I'll be able to really scare some Warlords.

I think I played my Dire Avengers well. I started them near the Rangers and I moved them forward to stand between the rangers/reapers and the enemy. They shot some cultists/poxwalkers and defended the line. They were targeted because they were close and they got shot by a lot and they died because my enemy chose to kill them. For a 120 point unit, they did fine, but they died first in both games. They were shot at by Obliterators and then the Obliterators were wrecked by my Dark Reapers. No one has shot at the Dark Reapers, yet!

Yeah, I worry about the Warp Spiders because 2 s6 shots without AP doesn't seem very useful. The rending ability is nice, but not enough to assassinate a unit. I'm not sure what they'll do for me, but I love them so I'm going to buy a box and figure out if they're useful later! lol.

I think t4 3+ armor is considered standard. Guardsmen are not standard, they are squishy AF. Space Marines are a good unit to pick because they're in the middle between heavy infantry and light infantry.

pm713 wrote:
Then a tactical marine has good durability.

Not per point. Let's just drop this now.