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Martel732 wrote:
I find it amusing you use tacs as a durability measure.

Directly against one of the most durable units in the game (that also have the highest damage per point in the game too)

Can we end this stupid discussion about measuring units against units? Who cares. You can use any unit to measure against any other unit. I often play MEQ, so I compare everything to marines.

My Eldar have t3 and 4+ armor, so they are squishy. If I was comparing against guard I'd call myself slightly above average durability and we all know that's not true.

As for your DAs dying first both games, as long as that's what you intended, that's a good thing. You really need to force their hand on target selection. If their weapons are hitting your DAs instead of your Reapers/Banshees/FireDragons, you're doing it right. If they're shooting your Rangers or Serpents before your DAs, especially with low-S shots, you're doing it perfectly.

DAs are scary enough for them to want to kill, but are only moderately killy. So people need to deal with them. So try to give them a good matchup. If they're shooting boltguns or lasguns at them while the DAs are in cover at 13"+, you're gravy. If they're in the open taking boltgun/lasgun fire at 12" or less, I hope you got something good out of it first. But that somethign good is often your opponent exposing the unit you want to kill.

Bharring wrote:
As for your DAs dying first both games, as long as that's what you intended, that's a good thing. You really need to force their hand on target selection. If their weapons are hitting your DAs instead of your Reapers/Banshees/FireDragons, you're doing it right. If they're shooting your Rangers or Serpents before your DAs, especially with low-S shots, you're doing it perfectly.

DAs are scary enough for them to want to kill, but are only moderately killy. So people need to deal with them. So try to give them a good matchup. If they're shooting boltguns or lasguns at them while the DAs are in cover at 13"+, you're gravy. If they're in the open taking boltgun/lasgun fire at 12" or less, I hope you got something good out of it first. But that somethign good is often your opponent exposing the unit you want to kill.

I really like Dire Avengers and I think I'll like them even more when they've got their own Wave Serpent. I think 2x5 inside a Wave Serpent is going to be nice.

And you can always put a Warlock in there, too, when they need one.

You really want to have Exarchs. You don't need to give him 2xASC if you don't want to (although that is the best build). I have one with Glave/ShimmerShield and one with diresword/pistol. They are ineffecetive and inefficient for their points, but they let the squad do some fun things late in the game in a casual setting.

How will the Warlock make up its points?

I can see adding a Warlock to the Banshees because it can help them fight in melee as well as provide them with a spell buff, though, I wonder if it's worth the points for that spell that'll likely be used only once or twice.

With Dire Avengers I can't see needing any spells that my seer council would not already have prepared. Sure, a Warlock would add yet another spell, but it doesn't feel as important as for the Banshees.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the Dire Avenger Exarch bits make an excellent jumping off point for an Autarch conversion, especially if your actual DA Exarchs are using Dual Catapults. The Shimmer Shield Arm = Force Shield, Power Glaive = Star Glaive, Diresword = Power Sword. For an Autarch on foot you can even slap on a flag. Even the large Plummed Helmet is great- especially if you are giving him the Shimmerplume, the bare elf head is also nice for showing you uniqueness. The Dire Avenger body is also very easy to bling out, the slots on the back pack easily fit a pair of Swooping Hawk Exarch wings if you want to go that route, and the power weapon arm is easily replaceable with a spare Reaper Launcher arm. If you've bought a couple of Dire Avenger boxes, there isn't any reason not to use one as the base for your armies Autarch.

Are the flags specifically for Autarchs? I gave the flag to the Exarch, though I'm not entirely sure what it is for.

Where does one get a spare Reaper Launcher? My Autarch plan is to have it with a launcher, but I can't imagine ever getting a spare one so I was planning to convert a Dark Reaper. I honestly don't really know what to do about the Autarch, but I'll get my 2nd Dire Avenger box soon and will have plenty of spare parts to work with.

The flags have no rules, it's a fluff thing. Does your Autarch carry a banner on his back? That'll vary between Autarchs, even of the same Craftworld.

If you use a Tempest Launcher on a Reaper exarch, you'd then have a spare one. More likely, though, you'll convert one out of a Missile Launcher. They're very similar in function and form, so it won't take much.

Also, take a look at Scourge wings if you want a winged Autarch. If there're DE players in your area that like batwings, they might have some spare bits. With a missile launcher, you probably don't need wings, though.

 Kharneth wrote:
How will the Warlock make up its points?

I can see adding a Warlock to the Banshees because it can help them fight in melee as well as provide them with a spell buff, though, I wonder if it's worth the points for that spell that'll likely be used only once or twice.

With Dire Avengers I can't see needing any spells that my seer council would not already have prepared. Sure, a Warlock would add yet another spell, but it doesn't feel as important as for the Banshees.

Skip the seer council, it’s not that great. The issue is that warlocks are expensive and fairly squishy. A solo warlock has the character rule, but the conclave does not. Thus, a solo warlock tends to survive much better than a whole conclave of them. I like warlocks, but I always run them solo for this reason.

Also, if you like DAs, you’re going to love guardians. They are excellent this edition. I never leave home without a unit of 20. I put them in the Webway and drop them next to a unit I want to vaporize. Cast Doom and/or Jinx on their target, then unleash 40 shuriken shots at their target. They always do a lot of work for me (but, to be fair, I also play Biel Tan, so I get reroll 1s on their hit rolls as well, which is super handy). I run DAs as well, but my Guardians are always my all stars.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, I’m surprised no one has mentioned the Eldar flyers yet. They’re both fantastic. The Hemlock is probably among the top 3 units in the entire codex, and the Crimson Hunter is in my opinion the best tank hunter we have. I take 1 of each regularly, and my opponents always hate them.

Bharring wrote:
The flags have no rules, it's a fluff thing. Does your Autarch carry a banner on his back? That'll vary between Autarchs, even of the same Craftworld.

If you use a Tempest Launcher on a Reaper exarch, you'd then have a spare one. More likely, though, you'll convert one out of a Missile Launcher. They're very similar in function and form, so it won't take much.

Also, take a look at Scourge wings if you want a winged Autarch. If there're DE players in your area that like batwings, they might have some spare bits. With a missile launcher, you probably don't need wings, though.

My DA Exarch has a banner on his back, what is the flag in the fluff? I was going to use it for a symbol.

My friend does have like 15-20 Scourges, I wonder if he's got spare wings.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Asmodas wrote:

 Kharneth wrote:
How will the Warlock make up its points?

I can see adding a Warlock to the Banshees because it can help them fight in melee as well as provide them with a spell buff, though, I wonder if it's worth the points for that spell that'll likely be used only once or twice.

With Dire Avengers I can't see needing any spells that my seer council would not already have prepared. Sure, a Warlock would add yet another spell, but it doesn't feel as important as for the Banshees.

Skip the seer council, it’s not that great. The issue is that warlocks are expensive and fairly squishy. A solo warlock has the character rule, but the conclave does not. Thus, a solo warlock tends to survive much better than a whole conclave of them. I like warlocks, but I always run them solo for this reason.

Also, if you like DAs, you’re going to love guardians. They are excellent this edition. I never leave home without a unit of 20. I put them in the Webway and drop them next to a unit I want to vaporize. Cast Doom and/or Jinx on their target, then unleash 40 shuriken shots at their target. They always do a lot of work for me (but, to be fair, I also play Biel Tan, so I get reroll 1s on their hit rolls as well, which is super handy). I run DAs as well, but my Guardians are always my all stars.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, I’m surprised no one has mentioned the Eldar flyers yet. They’re both fantastic. The Hemlock is probably among the top 3 units in the entire codex, and the Crimson Hunter is in my opinion the best tank hunter we have. I take 1 of each regularly, and my opponents always hate them.

All right, I guess I can get battle runes faster by taking the farseer and 2 warlocks independently.

Bharring wrote:
The flags have no rules, it's a fluff thing. Does your Autarch carry a banner on his back? That'll vary between Autarchs, even of the same Craftworld.

If you use a Tempest Launcher on a Reaper exarch, you'd then have a spare one. More likely, though, you'll convert one out of a Missile Launcher. They're very similar in function and form, so it won't take much.

Also, take a look at Scourge wings if you want a winged Autarch. If there're DE players in your area that like batwings, they might have some spare bits. With a missile launcher, you probably don't need wings, though.

Well rulewise flag can make autarch easier to see and be seen.

tneva82 wrote:

Bharring wrote:
The flags have no rules, it's a fluff thing. Does your Autarch carry a banner on his back? That'll vary between Autarchs, even of the same Craftworld.

If you use a Tempest Launcher on a Reaper exarch, you'd then have a spare one. More likely, though, you'll convert one out of a Missile Launcher. They're very similar in function and form, so it won't take much.

Also, take a look at Scourge wings if you want a winged Autarch. If there're DE players in your area that like batwings, they might have some spare bits. With a missile launcher, you probably don't need wings, though.

Well rulewise flag can make autarch easier to see and be seen.

Well who cares how easy to see my character is? But I don't play with people who would consider seeing the flag over his head enough line of sight to shoot at him.

Asmodas,
We're both doing it wrong.

You're playing Biel-Tan and spamming Guardians.

I'm playing Uthwe and spamming Dire Avengers.

Kharneth,
Remember that your Farseer can't take Runes of Battle. But Farseer runes are awesome, too.

I use the banners on my Exarch's back as flag, and I've been painting a standard for the Shrine on it. In theory, your Exarch doesn't need to have a flag. It's really up to you.

If you do play in tournies, don't be too surprised if "I can see the flag" or "It's MFA not to have a flag on an Exarch!". But I'd be shocked to see that in normal play.

As for wings, it comes down to what you like. I like feathered wings more than batwings on both my Scourge and Swooping Hawks. Some people like the Swooping Hawk wings or the Exarch wings. It's all about personal taste.

Its actually the other way around with flags and LOS at least for the Autarch, see, if we consider the flag part of the model... and units draw line of sight from any part of the model instead of the weapon... it means your Autarch can technically shoot from any point the 'flag' can see. It also means enemies can shoot him if they can see the flag. But your Autarch is a Character, so his Line of Sight is more important, because he also has Sniper and a rocket launcher,
So generally he is protected even if he can be seen, and increasing his own line of sight lets him drive that Reaper Launcher home easier. THAT SAID. The main point of the Flag is that it looks cool and it makes it easier to say, this is my Autarch, you can tell because he has this ostentatious flag on his back. I would play him anyway you want, but if you play with someone who starts drawing line of sight to the flag with snipers, just take it in stride and draw line of sight yourself from the flag to his characters. See how he likes his RAW fun times.

I guess I'll see what happens if I ever bring my Eldar to a tournament. So far, everyone I've played with is pretty sensical about things like that. I have plenty of miniatures with things sticking off them because I play Chaos, but I've never measured or used LoS to or from spikes or head racks. I have yet to have an issue with someone regarding a part of the actual mini and an accessory part.

This is more annoying in reference to my Dire Avengers, because if seeing that flag over a hill means you can draw LoS to him than you can kill the entire unit even though you can't see anything except the top of a flag.

I've never had that come up in a game. And I've had DAs in almost every CWE game I've played.

It sounds like you have a fun bunch to play with. I would envy you, but so do I.

Dire Avengers are relatively tall and lanky, anyways, so I've avoided trying to use hills to hide them - it takes a tall hill, and any elevation can usually see them anyways. Scorpions and others have lower profiles, though. DAs try to find walls and buildings and such to hide behind.

We have a serious lack of terrain and it's twice as noticeable with Eldar than World Eaters. We've got some chunks of wood and bricks that they were using before I joined in. I made a bunch of hills and forests, but we still don't have any walls or buildings. It's mostly just in LoS or out of LoS with the chance of obscuring a vehicle. Infantry don't get cover from being obscured, right? Only when standing on terrain?

Terrain rules this edition are an abomination, and half the time I play a game the guy says "So, are we saying [details] is how terrain works this game?". So I don't want to steer you wrong and will point you to YMDC on that one.

Outside our broken units, CWE really need terrain to do much. We have shooting, but it's close range. If the game takes place on Planet Bowling Ball, we're in a bad place. Our things can do stuff, but can't stand up toe to toe to equal points in the open (typically).

Well, I got my roommate into the game and he's playing Drukhari, one reason why I'm starting Eldar, and he wants to build some walls and buildings. I'm almost positive it's because we shot his raiders and venoms to bits last game. I'm in a weird situation where we play more 2v2 or 3v3 games of small points each than actual 1v1 games, so I don't necessarily need terrain to hide behind. Sometimes I have other armies to hide behind.

But the game is a lot more fun with better/more terrain!

Bharring wrote:
But the game is a lot more fun with better/more terrain!

I know! And when you play with objectives, too! That's why I built all the hills.

Bharring wrote:
Asmodas,
We're both doing it wrong.

You're playing Biel-Tan and spamming Guardians.

I'm playing Uthwe and spamming Dire Avengers.

Lol, yeah I know. My paint scheme for my army has been Biel Tan for a long time before 8th edition (try... second edition) and I am kind of overly attached to my head-canon for my army. That being said, I have found the re-roll 1s to be pretty clutch for my Guardians, DAs and Serpents, as it means I can save points on an Autarch and just buy psyker HQs, which I prefer anyway. Plus, Biel Tan has a great warlord trait and relic.