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ValentineGames wrote:
Necromunda is a perfect example of "DLC".
Chapter approved for 8th is too.
GW are the EA of wargaming. Milk that cash cow!

The problem is that people are complaining now about too many updates. The reason we have them is because people were bitching endlessly about lack of updates. Sure there's probably a better middle ground, but people just love to complain.

phillv85 wrote:

ValentineGames wrote:
Necromunda is a perfect example of "DLC".
Chapter approved for 8th is too.
GW are the EA of wargaming. Milk that cash cow!

The problem is that people are complaining now about too many updates. The reason we have them is because people were bitching endlessly about lack of updates. Sure there's probably a better middle ground, but people just love to complain.

Isn't the main problem more along the line that the CA is basically a necessary balance update and errata/faq in one go but they try to nickel and dime us for it?

phillv85 wrote:

ValentineGames wrote:
Necromunda is a perfect example of "DLC".
Chapter approved for 8th is too.
GW are the EA of wargaming. Milk that cash cow!

The problem is that people are complaining now about too many updates. The reason we have them is because people were bitching endlessly about lack of updates. Sure there's probably a better middle ground, but people just love to complain.

Well cutting an update in to two half and puting a price tag on it as a full product, is not something people consider more updates. If GW suddenly cut up my codex in to 4 parts according with all the chambers GK have it wouldn't suddenly mean four times as much content. And cutting a rule book required to play in to 3-4 books is not very player friendly. It has to do wonders to how sales rise. From what I have seen to start AoS you need 4 books right now, and if your already someone who played in the older editions, you have to buy only 3 books.

Isn't the main problem more along the line that the CA is basically a necessary balance update and errata/faq in one go but they try to nickel and dime us for it?

this is EA tier stuff, making you pay for a patch update

Karol wrote:

phillv85 wrote:

ValentineGames wrote:
Necromunda is a perfect example of "DLC".
Chapter approved for 8th is too.
GW are the EA of wargaming. Milk that cash cow!

The problem is that people are complaining now about too many updates. The reason we have them is because people were bitching endlessly about lack of updates. Sure there's probably a better middle ground, but people just love to complain.

Well cutting an update in to two half and puting a price tag on it as a full product, is not something people consider more updates. If GW suddenly cut up my codex in to 4 parts according with all the chambers GK have it wouldn't suddenly mean four times as much content. And cutting a rule book required to play in to 3-4 books is not very player friendly. It has to do wonders to how sales rise. From what I have seen to start AoS you need 4 books right now, and if your already someone who played in the older editions, you have to buy only 3 books.

Isn't the main problem more along the line that the CA is basically a necessary balance update and errata/faq in one go but they try to nickel and dime us for it?

this is EA tier stuff, making you pay for a patch update

No, the real EA tier stuff are the new models. Remember the introduction of flyers? The Hydra/ Wyvern? Helldrake?

Seriously though, new GW releases tend to be better then what allready exists in an army. (except mutilators, they just suck, period, not once have i seen a good mutilator. Or a good looking one.)

I think the eventual endgame is that there will be an app access where you buy either the packs(DNDBeyond) or a subscription model. Considering that's where the industry is slowly going to I think it's not that far away.

Won't just people pirate the books then, if there are no real physical rules. No way for the opposing player or a store owner/TO to check if your digital stuff is legit or no. Unless of course EU suddenly changes the privacy laws.

No, the real EA tier stuff are the new models. Remember the introduction of flyers? The Hydra/ Wyvern? Helldrake?

No, I started 2 months ago.

Karol wrote:
Won't just people pirate the books then, if there are no real physical rules. No way for the opposing player or a store owner/TO to check if your digital stuff is legit or no. Unless of course EU suddenly changes the privacy laws.

No, the real EA tier stuff are the new models. Remember the introduction of flyers? The Hydra/ Wyvern? Helldrake?

No, I started 2 months ago.

Well, let's just say that is a theme. Either to boost the initial sales of new models or just because their balance/ rule team is bad.
Probably a combination of both, frankly their rules team is to put it mildly, not up on par with what should and could be expected.

Karol wrote:

phillv85 wrote:

ValentineGames wrote:
Necromunda is a perfect example of "DLC".
Chapter approved for 8th is too.
GW are the EA of wargaming. Milk that cash cow!

The problem is that people are complaining now about too many updates. The reason we have them is because people were bitching endlessly about lack of updates. Sure there's probably a better middle ground, but people just love to complain.

Well cutting an update in to two half and puting a price tag on it as a full product, is not something people consider more updates. If GW suddenly cut up my codex in to 4 parts according with all the chambers GK have it wouldn't suddenly mean four times as much content. And cutting a rule book required to play in to 3-4 books is not very player friendly. It has to do wonders to how sales rise. From what I have seen to start AoS you need 4 books right now, and if your already someone who played in the older editions, you have to buy only 3 books.

Isn't the main problem more along the line that the CA is basically a necessary balance update and errata/faq in one go but they try to nickel and dime us for it?

this is EA tier stuff, making you pay for a patch update

I'm not saying anything about the amount of content that goes into each release. People wanted more frequent updates, and GW to address broken aspects of the game. How often should they do it? Whatever they do, some aspect of the community won't be pleased. I mean Christ, their March FAQ got put back a few weeks and some of the people on here were acting like the sky was falling down. Now the other side is saying they aren't happy with new content every six months. No the game isn't balanced, and in theory if they just "got it right" they wouldn't need to do this, but they'll never make the perfect game in the eyes of everyone.

 Peregrine wrote:


The problem is that the fluff is inherently tied to those electronic formats. If you're just reading the fluff at home, without buying miniatures and playing games, you can easily pirate a copy of the fluff book. 3d printing, on the other hand, is much farther away from being a threat. Current consumer-level printers aren't anywhere near capable of duplicating real models, and that is not likely to change in the near future. GW's best strategy is to use the easily-pirated stuff as marketing material and make their money on the miniatures that people have to buy.

Check out the Anycubic Photon, it is a SLA 3D printer that costs about $500 and prints minis that can be better quality than GWs molded models for about $1 a model. 3D printing if officially a threat, right now. I just printed a Zone Mortalis equivalent off of Thingiverse for about 1/3 the cost that ForgeWorld charges on a traditional FDM 3D printer and it looks fantastic.

More on topic the DLC model is a bit dangerous IMO. I am a massive, I mean massive Necromunda fan but I have not picked up the new game because of the piece meal release. I wanted a complete rule set from the start. By the time they finally release it all, I will be buying over$100 in just rules and honestly I am not sure whether I will be able to swallow that pill. I have no problem with expansions but it needs to feel like it is an expansion and not just core game rules split up.

Not Online!!! wrote:

Karol wrote:
Won't just people pirate the books then, if there are no real physical rules. No way for the opposing player or a store owner/TO to check if your digital stuff is legit or no. Unless of course EU suddenly changes the privacy laws.

No, the real EA tier stuff are the new models. Remember the introduction of flyers? The Hydra/ Wyvern? Helldrake?

No, I started 2 months ago.

Well, let's just say that is a theme. Either to boost the initial sales of new models or just because their balance/ rule team is bad.
Probably a combination of both, frankly their rules team is to put it mildly, not up on par with what should and could be expected.

That may have been the case once upon a time, (I seem to recall hearing that back around 4th or 5th edition that was indeed their policy) but thats no longer the case and hasn't been for sometime. Let's look at the new releases since 6th edition hit shall we? Yes SOME of the new releases swiftly became the new hotness, such as Centurions and Wulfen, on the other hand, there where a lot of things that wheren't that great. you didn't see people rushing out to buy Tauroxes, and I'm not sure I've EVER seen any of the Space Marine AA tanks.


as for the new rules etc coming out, man you guys would have had a heart attack playing battletech when I started playing THAT, the field manual series, of multiple sourcebooks with close to a hundred pages each, each with maybe a page of rules. Man the 40k player base woulda HATED that apparently

Not Online!!! wrote:

Karol wrote:

phillv85 wrote:

ValentineGames wrote:
Necromunda is a perfect example of "DLC".
Chapter approved for 8th is too.
GW are the EA of wargaming. Milk that cash cow!

The problem is that people are complaining now about too many updates. The reason we have them is because people were bitching endlessly about lack of updates. Sure there's probably a better middle ground, but people just love to complain.

Well cutting an update in to two half and puting a price tag on it as a full product, is not something people consider more updates. If GW suddenly cut up my codex in to 4 parts according with all the chambers GK have it wouldn't suddenly mean four times as much content. And cutting a rule book required to play in to 3-4 books is not very player friendly. It has to do wonders to how sales rise. From what I have seen to start AoS you need 4 books right now, and if your already someone who played in the older editions, you have to buy only 3 books.

Isn't the main problem more along the line that the CA is basically a necessary balance update and errata/faq in one go but they try to nickel and dime us for it?

this is EA tier stuff, making you pay for a patch update

No, the real EA tier stuff are the new models. Remember the introduction of flyers? The Hydra/ Wyvern? Helldrake?

Seriously though, new GW releases tend to be better then what allready exists in an army. (except mutilators, they just suck, period, not once have i seen a good mutilator. Or a good looking one.)

Well, except for bullgryns and scions and tauroxes, those were hot garbage on release. Wait, hang on, only one thing in that release was good, and even then it was only half the kit? That doesn't fit the "gw releases new stuffs to be OP and make you buy" narrative...

Hmm...and after that, there was the Orkanaut/Meganob/Big Mek with SAG/Mek Gun/Flash Git release, of which only one kit was even remotely playable.

Eldar release with the Windriders, those were obviously busted to be sure.

New admech - sure, they have dunecrawlers and Kastelans, but they also have Kataphrons, electropriests, Balistarii and Sicarians. Nuff said.

And then after that Harlequins, who were released as the worst army in the game. Odd.

New assault marines, tactical marines, and devs, all still pretty terrible. Devs are OK, but everything basically unchanged.

New Tau Breachers, everyone knows how busted THOSE are. Haven't checked up on Ghostkeels and Stormsurges in a while but I'm not seeing them in any competitive lists.

New Deathwatch, remember how broken Deathwatch was? Oh yeah, no they sucked. Do you remember the amazing formation we got with the DW:O box - 450 points of space marines with one bike, one melta gunner, one assault marine, one terminator, all just shlepping around the field with bizarre ass wargear getting basically no rules?

I could keep going here through the new rubric kits, primaris marines, etc, but I think you get the point. Less than half of the new rules GW puts out are even PLAYABLE, let alone broken. You just remember the Magnuses and forget about the rubrics, scarab occults, and exalted sorcerors.

BrianDavion wrote:


That may have been the case once upon a time, (I seem to recall hearing that back around 4th or 5th edition that was indeed their policy) but thats no longer the case and hasn't been for sometime. Let's look at the new releases since 6th edition hit shall we? Yes SOME of the new releases swiftly became the new hotness, such as Centurions and Wulfen, on the other hand, there where a lot of things that wheren't that great. you didn't see people rushing out to buy Tauroxes, and I'm not sure I've EVER seen any of the Space Marine AA tanks.


as for the new rules etc coming out, man you guys would have had a heart attack playing battletech when I started playing THAT, the field manual series, of multiple sourcebooks with close to a hundred pages each, each with maybe a page of rules. Man the 40k player base woulda HATED that apparently

Isn't battle tech played with like 4-12 models, so even if you needed 3 books and each of those books cost something crazy like a 100$ each, it would still come up less then half what a w40k army costs without any books.

the_scotsman wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

Karol wrote:

phillv85 wrote:

ValentineGames wrote:
Necromunda is a perfect example of "DLC".
Chapter approved for 8th is too.
GW are the EA of wargaming. Milk that cash cow!

The problem is that people are complaining now about too many updates. The reason we have them is because people were bitching endlessly about lack of updates. Sure there's probably a better middle ground, but people just love to complain.

Well cutting an update in to two half and puting a price tag on it as a full product, is not something people consider more updates. If GW suddenly cut up my codex in to 4 parts according with all the chambers GK have it wouldn't suddenly mean four times as much content. And cutting a rule book required to play in to 3-4 books is not very player friendly. It has to do wonders to how sales rise. From what I have seen to start AoS you need 4 books right now, and if your already someone who played in the older editions, you have to buy only 3 books.

Isn't the main problem more along the line that the CA is basically a necessary balance update and errata/faq in one go but they try to nickel and dime us for it?

this is EA tier stuff, making you pay for a patch update

No, the real EA tier stuff are the new models. Remember the introduction of flyers? The Hydra/ Wyvern? Helldrake?

Seriously though, new GW releases tend to be better then what allready exists in an army. (except mutilators, they just suck, period, not once have i seen a good mutilator. Or a good looking one.)

Well, except for bullgryns and scions and tauroxes, those were hot garbage on release. Wait, hang on, only one thing in that release was good, and even then it was only half the kit? That doesn't fit the "gw releases new stuffs to be OP and make you buy" narrative...

Hmm...and after that, there was the Orkanaut/Meganob/Big Mek with SAG/Mek Gun/Flash Git release, of which only one kit was even remotely playable.

Eldar release with the Windriders, those were obviously busted to be sure.

New admech - sure, they have dunecrawlers and Kastelans, but they also have Kataphrons, electropriests, Balistarii and Sicarians. Nuff said.

And then after that Harlequins, who were released as the worst army in the game. Odd.

New assault marines, tactical marines, and devs, all still pretty terrible. Devs are OK, but everything basically unchanged.

New Tau Breachers, everyone knows how busted THOSE are. Haven't checked up on Ghostkeels and Stormsurges in a while but I'm not seeing them in any competitive lists.

New Deathwatch, remember how broken Deathwatch was? Oh yeah, no they sucked. Do you remember the amazing formation we got with the DW:O box - 450 points of space marines with one bike, one melta gunner, one assault marine, one terminator, all just shlepping around the field with bizarre ass wargear getting basically no rules?

I could keep going here through the new rubric kits, primaris marines, etc, but I think you get the point. Less than half of the new rules GW puts out are even PLAYABLE, let alone broken. You just remember the Magnuses and forget about the rubrics, scarab occults, and exalted sorcerors.

Guess so, still sometimes their balancing is off.
Frankly Magnus and crew are all under the new LOW group, just like flyers were, insofar one could come to the conclusion that such new units do get a boost if they fall under a new hot and shiny category.
That said, most of the Codex / Index entries anyways are not good or justifyable beyond casual games/narratives/ fluffy matches.

I found a link to the article form 2015 that says how Rick Priestley ( Warhammer’s co-creator) is upset the marketing team took over and is destroying it.

https://web.archive.org/web/20160224222853/http://unpluggedgames.co.uk/features/blood-dice-and-darkness-how-warhammer-defined-gaming-for-a-generation/

“The studio, the creative part of Games Workshop, had always been kept apart from the sales part of it. One thing Bryan said was that if the sales people got to be in charge of the studio, it would destroy the studio, and that’s exactly what happened.”

interesting read and could probably do with a thread in itself.

So maybe it is that when GW makes a new type of unit, aka a flyer, primarch etc and those units didn't exist before they get powerful rules.

From what I have been told, centurions were very powerful when they came out, and unplayable now. Same happened to eldar knights, wulfen, wolf cavalery etc

At the same time new units of models of already existing types are hit and miss. If they make units for eldar, which they seem to love, they get nice or good rules. When they make new stuff for infantry marines it can be everything ranging from a csm possessed to a sternguard.

 lolman1c wrote:
I found a link to the article form 2015 that says how Rick Priestley ( Warhammer’s co-creator) is upset the marketing team took over and is destroying it.

https://web.archive.org/web/20160224222853/http://unpluggedgames.co.uk/features/blood-dice-and-darkness-how-warhammer-defined-gaming-for-a-generation/

“The studio, the creative part of Games Workshop, had always been kept apart from the sales part of it. One thing Bryan said was that if the sales people got to be in charge of the studio, it would destroy the studio, and that’s exactly what happened.”

interesting read and could probably do with a thread in itself.

Can be seen in the Games industry: If the publisher gains too much influence over the developper the market will dictate over the core game. In the end the game will suffer and die. Case in point C&C, EA, and the now dead developpers.

Karol wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:


That may have been the case once upon a time, (I seem to recall hearing that back around 4th or 5th edition that was indeed their policy) but thats no longer the case and hasn't been for sometime. Let's look at the new releases since 6th edition hit shall we? Yes SOME of the new releases swiftly became the new hotness, such as Centurions and Wulfen, on the other hand, there where a lot of things that wheren't that great. you didn't see people rushing out to buy Tauroxes, and I'm not sure I've EVER seen any of the Space Marine AA tanks.


as for the new rules etc coming out, man you guys would have had a heart attack playing battletech when I started playing THAT, the field manual series, of multiple sourcebooks with close to a hundred pages each, each with maybe a page of rules. Man the 40k player base woulda HATED that apparently

Isn't battle tech played with like 4-12 models, so even if you needed 3 books and each of those books cost something crazy like a 100$ each, it would still come up less then half what a w40k army costs without any books.

Classic is rarely more than 3 models, Alphastrike is 12 models plus.

Worth noting http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/761/crusader-crd-6m is a free source for unit data that's existed for years and covers hundreds of mechs across multiple time periods.

DLC is skirmish 101, look xwing etc, each wave comes with some nice small boxes with new or upgraded features.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:
I found a link to the article form 2015 that says how Rick Priestley ( Warhammer’s co-creator) is upset the marketing team took over and is destroying it.

https://web.archive.org/web/20160224222853/http://unpluggedgames.co.uk/features/blood-dice-and-darkness-how-warhammer-defined-gaming-for-a-generation/

“The studio, the creative part of Games Workshop, had always been kept apart from the sales part of it. One thing Bryan said was that if the sales people got to be in charge of the studio, it would destroy the studio, and that’s exactly what happened.”

interesting read and could probably do with a thread in itself.

Can be seen in the Games industry: If the publisher gains too much influence over the developper the market will dictate over the core game. In the end the game will suffer and die. Case in point C&C, EA, and the now dead developpers.

So marines are GW FIFA 20XX?

 lolman1c wrote:
It might just be me but I've noticed recently that GW has taken a rule from the Video games worlds books and potentially started cutting up rules to sell later on as DLC content (obviously it's not DLC as you can't download it. It's more BLC like, buy later content. But there isn't enough content to be a full expansion). For example, I'm noticing a remarkable number of units missing from these kill team previews. Units that are plastic and you would obviously expect to be there (Orgyns and Bulgryns for example). The recent Tyranids preview shows it has nothing to do with their size (as tyranid warriors are there) so I'm predicting we will see DLC style content where we're given the option to buy the options that are missing. We are basically getting day one DLC (just like the video game industry) already as GW has decided to not sell every factions rules (the command abilities mainly I belive) in the core rule book and has opted to make them exclusive to the units starter packs.

So, I'm wondering what you guys think? Are they cutting out rules to sell later? Is there any evidence either way? Is this good or bad (the gamers in the digital industry are highly against most DLC now)? And does this mean we might finally get a DLC season pass where we get all the rules we want for a monthly fee?
Discuss below!

DLC isn't bad inherently. If your entire game is downloaded because noone goes to a brick and mortar store to get a DVD anymore, obviously any expansion will be "DLC" then. If it's €20 for a proper expansion release a year after launch, it's still "Downloadable Content" - but there's no reason to complain AT ALL.

gakky microtransactions such as Loot Boxes or hiding stuff that's part of the core game behind a pay wall (e.g. "Deluxe Edition" with an extra story arc that's super-important to the main storyline) or stuff that's literally in the files of the release version, but locked and only accessible with an extra €5 purchase - that's the bad stuff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:
as for the new rules etc coming out, man you guys would have had a heart attack playing battletech when I started playing THAT, the field manual series, of multiple sourcebooks with close to a hundred pages each, each with maybe a page of rules. Man the 40k player base woulda HATED that apparently

Why would you buy a BT source book if you were looking for rules, though? IIRC all you needed were: core rule book, hex maps, miniatures and (optional: matching) record sheets. There're tools to design your own maps and record sheets and just print them out, at least that's how it was back in ~2000. Even the game dying temporarily wasn't a real issue, which is why BT easily survived MWDA which was way more expensive to play since you HAD to get the miniature to play a specific unit, and IIRC the boxes were basically real-world loot boxes: Random content.

True there is DLC that gives you 1/4th more of a game like witcher 3. I wouldn't mind GW making new something cool like an expansion for specific eldar craftworld or some cool new tau sept. It is the lets core rules cut in to 3 books type of design that makes me wonder about the new friendly GW. The old one had to be really horrible for the thing that is now to count as friendly

The problem is GW has to sell something.

The issue has always been that without obsolescence - and GW has the lowest level of obsolescence of almost any industry in the world - getting constant sales is a major challenge.

Yes they can hook people on plastic crack - but at some point people realise their 60,000 points worth of unmade up sprues indicate a problem.

GW can't stop you going on Ebay and buying some models that have been traded 5 times since they were first sold back in 2003. They can however force you to buy a modern update of the rules every couple of years.

 vonjankmon wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

More on topic the DLC model is a bit dangerous IMO. I am a massive, I mean massive Necromunda fan but I have not picked up the new game because of the piece meal release. I wanted a complete rule set from the start. By the time they finally release it all, I will be buying over$100 in just rules and honestly I am not sure whether I will be able to swallow that pill. I have no problem with expansions but it needs to feel like it is an expansion and not just core game rules split up.

Exactly my feelings. GW are skinning their customers daily.

Pancakey wrote:

 vonjankmon wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

More on topic the DLC model is a bit dangerous IMO. I am a massive, I mean massive Necromunda fan but I have not picked up the new game because of the piece meal release. I wanted a complete rule set from the start. By the time they finally release it all, I will be buying over$100 in just rules and honestly I am not sure whether I will be able to swallow that pill. I have no problem with expansions but it needs to feel like it is an expansion and not just core game rules split up.

Exactly my feelings. GW are skinning their customers daily.

Honestly, what's the alternative? Have them have 1 release a year for €400 where everything they've developed over the last year is included?
And Gang Wars 1/2 - to an outsider like me - seem to be exactly what you're asking for - expansions. They introduce new terrain, campaign rules and new gangs, from what I can tell. What would you want them to contain instead?

nekooni wrote:

Pancakey wrote:

 vonjankmon wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

More on topic the DLC model is a bit dangerous IMO. I am a massive, I mean massive Necromunda fan but I have not picked up the new game because of the piece meal release. I wanted a complete rule set from the start. By the time they finally release it all, I will be buying over$100 in just rules and honestly I am not sure whether I will be able to swallow that pill. I have no problem with expansions but it needs to feel like it is an expansion and not just core game rules split up.

Exactly my feelings. GW are skinning their customers daily.

Honestly, what's the alternative? Have them have 1 release a year for €400 where everything they've developed over the last year is included?
And Gang Wars 1/2 - to an outsider like me - seem to be exactly what you're asking for - expansions. They introduce new terrain, campaign rules and new gangs, from what I can tell. What would you want them to contain instead?

1. Rules need to be all in 1 place. No more splitting up different crap in different boxes you can only get by buying those boxes (we had this in 7th and it got really confusing).

2. Stop charging us for updates. Nobody here is saying we want less updates we just do not want to pay for them anymore especially after last CA was an absolute rip off I did not even buy!

3. Bring out different gangs and stuff is fine. They're expansion packs to some extrent.. as for the whole €400 arguement this would be like saying gw is forcing people to buy every 40k faction at once.... we don't want them to put all the gangs together but all the gangs rules in one book would be nice. We know they can do this as they've done it eith old codecies and the indexes and even this new kill team.

4. And i don't want them to bring out a clearly inferior game just so they can charge us later to fix it with better rules! Which seems like they're doing that as the better updates come out rather fast compared to the old gw where it took 5 years for new rules so it always seemed like they worked hard on it.

Not all of this is my opinions but it's what people seem to be misunderstanding when it comes to people posting stuff... they seem to just ignkre what they're saying and make up some stupid thing like "you just want really expensive games with no updates " when nobody has even siad that here!

 lolman1c wrote:

nekooni wrote:

Pancakey wrote:

 vonjankmon wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

More on topic the DLC model is a bit dangerous IMO. I am a massive, I mean massive Necromunda fan but I have not picked up the new game because of the piece meal release. I wanted a complete rule set from the start. By the time they finally release it all, I will be buying over$100 in just rules and honestly I am not sure whether I will be able to swallow that pill. I have no problem with expansions but it needs to feel like it is an expansion and not just core game rules split up.

Exactly my feelings. GW are skinning their customers daily.

Honestly, what's the alternative? Have them have 1 release a year for €400 where everything they've developed over the last year is included?
And Gang Wars 1/2 - to an outsider like me - seem to be exactly what you're asking for - expansions. They introduce new terrain, campaign rules and new gangs, from what I can tell. What would you want them to contain instead?

1. Rules need to be all in 1 place. No more splitting up different crap in different boxes you can only get by buying those boxes (we had this in 7th and it got really confusing).

2. Stop charging us for updates. Nobody here is saying we want less updates we just do not want to pay for them anymore especially after last CA was an absolute rip off I did not even buy!

3. Bring out different gangs and stuff is fine. They're expansion packs to some extrent.. as for the whole €400 arguement this would be like saying gw is forcing people to buy every 40k faction at once.... we don't want them to put all the gangs together but all the gangs rules in one book would be nice. We know they can do this as they've done it eith old codecies and the indexes and even this new kill team.

4. And i don't want them to bring out a clearly inferior game just so they can charge us later to fix it with better rules! Which seems like they're doing that as the better updates come out rather fast compared to the old gw where it took 5 years for new rules so it always seemed like they worked hard on it.

Not all of this is my opinions but it's what people seem to be misunderstanding when it comes to people posting stuff... they seem to just ignkre what they're saying and make up some stupid thing like "you just want really expensive games with no updates " when nobody has even siad that here!

1. The core rules are, aren't they? At least for 40k, AoS and - from what I can tell: Necromunda. If you disagree on that, could you give me an example of something you'd consider a core rule?
2. CA is, to me, an expansion that adds a lot of new missions and advanced rules that expand the existing game (e.g. Land Raider construction rules, Apocalypse rules, advanced Terrain rules like Warzones). Just based on that it's a good expansion book. If only they had NOT included the updated points, but instead released those as errata to the existing books. Not doing that was a really bad and nothing more than a money grab / attempt to push CA on everyone, even if they were not interested in the new stuff inside.
3. I was refering to the game in general. Sure, they can cook up an Index, but
a) it was still multiple books just to have the pure rules available at the start of 8th ,
b) these books lacked ALL of the flavour of 40k. They were simple gaming aids, nothing more.
c) they didn't even include all of the rules - all the <Subfaction> stuff, all the Relics, Warlord traits and so on was missing
d) people were still complaining that "I have to buy both Imperium 1 and 2 to field my army",
e) while others were complaining "I play just this Faction, why do I have to pay for all the others in the Index, too?"
40k has always had a ton of fluff. Yes, they COULD split it up into a fluff book and a crunch book like they do with AoS. I don't have an argument against it, to be honest. It's probably a money thing, because many people won't want to pay for both, which - in the long run - would mean the fluff books will I) increase in price or II) get cancelled.

4. I assume you're refering to CA again here? I agree - having updated point values in that book was a mistake, those should have been free. But the rules of 40k are decently solid, and issues with them are fixed via free FAQ and errata.

Granted, 400€ was a bit much, I was over-exaggerating - I didn't mean to include models in that bundle. Let's say 100€ for the core rules that took a year longer to release, but now include all the rules they'd have released in smaller books instead, for let's say 50+30+30€. Everyone would have to get e.g. the Sector Mechanicum rules, even if they never planned on playing there, because they're in the core rule book, and therefore everyone has to pay for them. Yes, people that wanted ALL the rules would save 10€ in exchange for not having the game a year earlier. Anyone that DIDN'T want the expansions would be paying extra on top of having the game a year later that necessary.

And I'm sorry, but the quote I was replying to literally said "I wanted a complete rule set from the start.", "I have not picked up the new game because of the piece meal release". That's literally "I want ONE purchase, no changes, stop selling things separately". I'm rather sure that you can play Necromunda just fine with the base game. If you want to have campaign rules, grab GW1. If you want another faction, grab the correct GW issue. If you want to play Necromunda in different locations, grab the correct GW issue.

I don't think Necromunda is the best way to sell a board game, but it's also how GW manages their other games. KT has all the faction rules in the core rule book. Terrain rules come with the terrain. Special faction stuff comes with the Faction models (although I'm not sure if these rules are already printed in the Core rules, too - like e.g. the Stratagem Cards for 40k are for convenience and you could play without them by using the codex where they're all listed anyway).

hobojebus wrote:

Karol wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:


That may have been the case once upon a time, (I seem to recall hearing that back around 4th or 5th edition that was indeed their policy) but thats no longer the case and hasn't been for sometime. Let's look at the new releases since 6th edition hit shall we? Yes SOME of the new releases swiftly became the new hotness, such as Centurions and Wulfen, on the other hand, there where a lot of things that wheren't that great. you didn't see people rushing out to buy Tauroxes, and I'm not sure I've EVER seen any of the Space Marine AA tanks.


as for the new rules etc coming out, man you guys would have had a heart attack playing battletech when I started playing THAT, the field manual series, of multiple sourcebooks with close to a hundred pages each, each with maybe a page of rules. Man the 40k player base woulda HATED that apparently

Isn't battle tech played with like 4-12 models, so even if you needed 3 books and each of those books cost something crazy like a 100$ each, it would still come up less then half what a w40k army costs without any books.

Classic is rarely more than 3 models, Alphastrike is 12 models plus.

Worth noting http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/761/crusader-crd-6m is a free source for unit data that's existed for years and covers hundreds of mechs across multiple time periods.

actually your typical classic battle is 4 v 4, a lance vs a lance . that said, Battletech gamers also represent a differant culture.

The game is MUCH less mini focused, yes some people do minis etc and I've known people with an entire regiment of battlemechs, but people's priorities for the game are differant. and TBH I've always kind of suspected the culture is more in line with what GW WISHES 40ks culture could be. where the focus and love is on the story, and people will gladly pay for a book thats 100 pages of fluff and maybe 1 page of rules. things like the codex supplements are the norm for that game. not the exception.

 vonjankmon wrote:
Check out the Anycubic Photon, it is a SLA 3D printer that costs about $500 and prints minis that can be better quality than GWs molded models for about $1 a model. 3D printing if officially a threat, right now. I just printed a Zone Mortalis equivalent off of Thingiverse for about 1/3 the cost that ForgeWorld charges on a traditional FDM 3D printer and it looks fantastic.

It looks ok. Detail seems pretty good, though the claimed resolution isn't sufficient to remove all print lines and equal a proper model kit. The issue is that you make up for that lower price with a massive amount of work and dealing with toxic chemicals. You aren't just pressing a button and taking a finished miniature out. It's not quite as bad as sculpting your own from scratch, but it's way more work than most people are going to want to invest. And that's on top of the $500+ setup cost, which can buy a lot of model kits. Only the most dedicated hobbyists who love 3d printing for the sake of 3d printing are going to be interested in it, which means physical kit sales are still a better source of revenue for GW than rulebooks that anyone with a PC can pirate in a few minutes.

ValentineGames wrote:
Necromunda is a perfect example of "DLC".
Chapter approved for 8th is too.
GW are the EA of wargaming. Milk that cash cow!

Necromunda is new gangs and their rules. When they're done they're done.

Chapter Approved is level setting rules on a yearly basis. You know - the gak PEOPLE ASKED FOR.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

ValentineGames wrote:
Necromunda is a perfect example of "DLC".
Chapter approved for 8th is too.
GW are the EA of wargaming. Milk that cash cow!

Necromunda is new gangs and their rules. When they're done they're done.

Chapter Approved is level setting rules on a yearly basis. You know - the gak PEOPLE ASKED FOR.

No. Necromunda is new gang. 3D rules. And equipment lists spread out so you need all the books to buy anything...and still miss a ton of stuff...and still need White Dwarf...and GW downloads...and FW downloads...

And yes people I'm sure asked for updates...how many asked to pay for these mandatory updates?...which should be free.
You pay £50 for a rulebook and £20-40 each year to play.
It's a GW live account.

Nobody asks for that level of pants on head retardedness. And if you're happy with it and think it's great...you are a GW sheltered fanboy moron...no two ways about it