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Not Online!!! wrote:
Militia Squdas:
Priced as a guardsmen, profile of a conscript armored with a pyjama and the possibility of a ld of 3.

CSM: well the regular CSM and the Terminators.
I just like the reaper autocannon to much.

Me too, I don't care what their rules are, I always have reaper autocannons on my Termies and my havocs, its like heavy bolters with my loyalists, I always love loading out my long fangs or Retributors with HB's.

Autocannons and it's variations aswell as Inferno Rocketlaunchers is for Chaos what the assultcannon/ multilaser is for the imperium.
In my opinion you can never have to much of them in a thematic CSM build, aslong as you don't take EC/ TS

It allways surprised me that the Hades autocannon is such a restricted option. Heck an improvised predator with a twin linked Hadesautocannon in it's turret would be an amazing model.
Alternatively , is there a reason we don't have stationary Infernorocket artilery? like on Tarantulas? Would make for an interesting unit for IW, especcially when it would be a Infernorocketbattery.

Not Online!!! wrote:
Autocannons and it's variations aswell as Inferno Rocketlaunchers is for Chaos what the assultcannon/ multilaser is for the imperium.
In my opinion you can never have to much of them in a thematic CSM build, aslong as you don't take EC/ TS

It allways surprised me that the Hades autocannon is such a restricted option. Heck an improvised predator with a twin linked Hadesautocannon in it's turret would be an amazing model.
Alternatively , is there a reason we don't have stationary Infernorocket artilery? like on Tarantulas? Would make for an interesting unit for IW, especcially when it would be a Infernorocketbattery.

I would fething love a predetor with a twin linked turret HA and two sponsons HA, I've never even though about that, you just blew my mind.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
Autocannons and it's variations aswell as Inferno Rocketlaunchers is for Chaos what the assultcannon/ multilaser is for the imperium.
In my opinion you can never have to much of them in a thematic CSM build, aslong as you don't take EC/ TS

It allways surprised me that the Hades autocannon is such a restricted option. Heck an improvised predator with a twin linked Hadesautocannon in it's turret would be an amazing model.
Alternatively , is there a reason we don't have stationary Infernorocket artilery? like on Tarantulas? Would make for an interesting unit for IW, especcially when it would be a Infernorocketbattery.

I would fething love a predetor with a twin linked turret HA and two sponsons HA, I've never even though about that, you just blew my mind.

I was always kind of bummed that there was no option for such a predator, considering there is a predator on the loyalist side that has a double assultcannon.
I guess my main problem is that the Hadesautocannon is introduced as a weapon that fires burning phosphorshells, yet the obvious choice place for it on a Helldrake is terrible.
The dinobot, well let's just say i own one, but i dislike the model. It's too fat, compared to other normal daemon engines. (well except nurgle for obvious reasons but not everyone is a happy go lucky nurgle worshpper now.)

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
Autocannons and it's variations aswell as Inferno Rocketlaunchers is for Chaos what the assultcannon/ multilaser is for the imperium.
In my opinion you can never have to much of them in a thematic CSM build, aslong as you don't take EC/ TS

It allways surprised me that the Hades autocannon is such a restricted option. Heck an improvised predator with a twin linked Hadesautocannon in it's turret would be an amazing model.
Alternatively , is there a reason we don't have stationary Infernorocket artilery? like on Tarantulas? Would make for an interesting unit for IW, especcially when it would be a Infernorocketbattery.

I would fething love a predetor with a twin linked turret HA and two sponsons HA, I've never even though about that, you just blew my mind.

I was always kind of bummed that there was no option for such a predator, considering there is a predator on the loyalist side that has a double assultcannon.
I guess my main problem is that the Hadesautocannon is introduced as a weapon that fires burning phosphorshells, yet the obvious choice place for it on a Helldrake is terrible.
The dinobot, well let's just say i own one, but i dislike the model. It's too fat, compared to other normal daemon engines. (well except nurgle for obvious reasons but not everyone is a happy go lucky nurgle worshpper now.)

Yeah I'd rather have a melta weapon on the heldrake, or an infantry weapon that is actually good enough for being just one weapon if you know what I mean. HA are great but a model with just one of them is meh to the nth.

Dedicated Transports for Space Marines.

You don't HAVE to take them but if you don't you're footslogging against stuff that can kill you way more easily now.

 Corennus wrote:
Dedicated Transports for Space Marines.

You don't HAVE to take them but if you don't you're footslogging against stuff that can kill you way more easily now.

The good old days when drop pods didn't cost a fortune.

don't get me started on drop pods.

coming back into 8th after a while away (6th ed!) i was thinking drop pod salamanders were the way...........and then i saw the points for drop pods.

 Corennus wrote:
don't get me started on drop pods.

coming back into 8th after a while away (6th ed!) i was thinking drop pod salamanders were the way...........and then i saw the points for drop pods.

They did that because of the first turn assault and new deepstriking rules, which is so annoying because they never curb anyone elses OPness, like Eldar of Tau (well tau in 7th lol, they suck now)

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 Corennus wrote:
don't get me started on drop pods.

coming back into 8th after a while away (6th ed!) i was thinking drop pod salamanders were the way...........and then i saw the points for drop pods.

They did that because of the first turn assault and new deepstriking rules, which is so annoying because they never curb anyone elses OPness, like Eldar of Tau (well tau in 7th lol, they suck now)

Tau don't really suck, just crisis suits took an lasgunbayonett to the knee.

Eldar got their new -2- -3 bs modyfing shenanigans, might aswell skip the shooting phases of all armies with bs 4+ now. ( Because skipping half of your regular damage turns is a fun and interactive gamemechanic. Seriously who thought that -1's on BS was a good idea?!?)

Additionally loyalists do get droppods, atleast. I mean the CSM without FW are in that regard boned. It's like they don't know what droppods are anymore because of collective Alzheimers that affects all denizeins of the Warp in regard to droppods.
What really annoys me though is the loss of the full murderkit for regular CSM as in Bolter, Boltpistol chainsword. Atleast that way they were the allrounders that CSM and Tac Marines were supposed to be and not just half a statline worth of stats and another half added in to force you to pay premium pts.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 Corennus wrote:
don't get me started on drop pods.

coming back into 8th after a while away (6th ed!) i was thinking drop pod salamanders were the way...........and then i saw the points for drop pods.

They did that because of the first turn assault and new deepstriking rules, which is so annoying because they never curb anyone elses OPness, like Eldar of Tau (well tau in 7th lol, they suck now)

Tau don't really suck, just crisis suits took an lasgunbayonett to the knee.

Eldar got their new -2- -3 bs modyfing shenanigans, might aswell skip the shooting phases of all armies with bs 4+ now. ( Because skipping half of your regular damage turns is a fun and interactive gamemechanic. Seriously who thought that -1's on BS was a good idea?!?)

Additionally loyalists do get droppods, atleast. I mean the CSM without FW are in that regard boned. It's like they don't know what droppods are anymore because of collective Alzheimers that affects all denizeins of the Warp in regard to droppods.
What really annoys me though is the loss of the full murderkit for regular CSM as in Bolter, Boltpistol chainsword. Atleast that way they were the allrounders that CSM and Tac Marines were supposed to be and not just half a statline worth of stats and another half added in to force you to pay premium pts.

No one takes drop pods, they are too expensive, all a drop pod does is drop the cargo, as a unit by itself its worthless, so we don't really 'still have them' If a chaos rhino was 100 pnts you would never take one

TBH until 6th ed Eldar were a joke. so now they've swung the other way.

Oh i do realise that droppods are so expensive they might aswell cut them from the Loyalist Codex.
In fact i thought of them as one of the better mechanics and incentives when they were cheaper. Added in some tactical depth for the SM army.
BTW Rhinos of any flavour are not really better off with their 72 pts tax.
Frankly all transport atm suck hard if they can transport astartes of any flavour. Landraiders also got the shortstraw, even worse then droppods imo.
I mean a chimera atleast get's some dakka to justify its 93pts price aswell as more durability. Rhinos are overexpensive cardboardboxes which however are still often necessary as to save certain units from fire.

Not Online!!! wrote:
Oh i do realise that droppods are so expensive they might aswell cut them from the Loyalist Codex.
In fact i thought of them as one of the better mechanics and incentives when they were cheaper. Added in some tactical depth for the SM army.
BTW Rhinos of any flavour are not really better off with their 72 pts tax.
Frankly all transport atm suck hard if they can transport astartes of any flavour. Landraiders also got the shortstraw, even worse then droppods imo.
I mean a chimera atleast get's some dakka to justify its 93pts price aswell as more durability. Rhinos are overexpensive cardboardboxes which however are still often necessary as to save certain units from fire.

And it doesn't look like GW are planning to change that with the Primaris Repulsive tank.

Pray for your anual 40k tax pamphleet called CA to fix the issues.

I commiserate with everyone in this thread.

Most of my Slaanesh Daemons army is like that. I had whiplash this weekend, in a way; every time I looked at the army, I kept shrinking the Daemons components more and more because of how much better Slaanesh CSM are. "I could do <X> more efficiently by taking a Slaanesh CSM detachment" whether X was "Deal with knights, psychic powers, combat efficiency, durability", whatever. So finally, this weekend, I ordered a Keeper of Secrets and 10 more Daemonettes to fill out my Daemons army to 2k completely, with nothing at all out side of mono-codex, mono-god.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
I always play units that are really bad or not really worth taking, just because I love them so much, what's your gak list?

Khorne Bezerkers - always played them even throughout the years when they were terrible.

Howling Banshees - always played them

Celestians - still bad and I play them

Warbikers, still playing them even though 8th has bent them over.

Raveners - always played them.

'zerkers ain't bad now.

Anyway:
Canonesses are bad, but you have to have them because we only have 1 HQ choice.
Battle Sisters aren't that bad, though "better than tacticals" isn't a high bar [and they don't get lascannons or missiles, which might make me prefer the tacticals anyway].

Of course, it's possible to not field them by bringing a battalion of Scouts and Captains instead, but at some point you're not a Sisters army anymore yes?

Are we saying crap according to DAKKADAKKA.
Or.
Crap because they are crap?

Because the first would be 90% of GW's entire range.

The second. Well I still love Vanquishers despite being utterly useless in every way, shape and form

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
I always play units that are really bad or not really worth taking, just because I love them so much, what's your gak list?

Khorne Bezerkers - always played them even throughout the years when they were terrible.

Howling Banshees - always played them

Celestians - still bad and I play them

Warbikers, still playing them even though 8th has bent them over.

Raveners - always played them.

'zerkers ain't bad now.

Anyway:
Canonesses are bad, but you have to have them because we only have 1 HQ choice.
Battle Sisters aren't that bad, though "better than tacticals" isn't a high bar [and they don't get lascannons or missiles, which might make me prefer the tacticals anyway].

Of course, it's possible to not field them by bringing a battalion of Scouts and Captains instead, but at some point you're not a Sisters army anymore yes?

They were though, for a long long time.

I play Night Lords.

Well.. that kinda sums it up.

Repentia. I used them starting back in 5th and up into 7th. While they continued to wane in ability, they were hilarious when they hit enemy lines and turned units into a fine bloody mist (also cleaving Land Raiders in half).

I haven't played Sisters in 8th, but as long as they exist they'll be part of my army.

My latest army project being a CSM Renegade based around the Marines Malevolent with standard CSM as my main troop choice would be another one. I just can't play an army in the most ultra-optimized manner I guess. I start with the things I like first, and then optimize from there.

Hmm, balance has gotten much better in 8th edition so I'd have to think hard about units I often field and which never accomplish something. Maybe beasts of nurgle, as they are simply too slow. But they're good to fill up a detachment.

Maybe helbrutes, but actually they work fine every time, as their damage output is better than most things in my Death Guard, they just go down pretty fast and could need a points reduction as they can't compete with the Bloat Drone.

Oh, furies. I have 5 giant wasps I use as furies and I like the paint job of them. But I realize they'd have to be a unit of at east 10 to actually achieve something. At least they held up a unit of Deathmarks for 3 turns one game...

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
I always play units that are really bad or not really worth taking, just because I love them so much, what's your gak list?

Khorne Bezerkers - always played them even throughout the years when they were terrible.

Howling Banshees - always played them

Celestians - still bad and I play them

Warbikers, still playing them even though 8th has bent them over.

Raveners - always played them.

I played the entire ork codex in 6th and 7th.

Anything from renegade and Heretics. I pretty much only play as guard now because of it.

Deff dreads. I don't think they've EVER been good, but I love them.