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Why is there always an assumption that anything is balanced around tac Marines, has GW ever said such?

If anythingvthey are balanced against 4ppm guard.

 Irubius wrote:

Could this work at 1000 points?

I think you should do okay. Depending on points and what you have on those scourges I suspect optimally you would swap them for a second ravager, but it should do fine in 1k points.

====

Why do people use the tactical marine as the baseline? Mainly because Marines are the poster boys of the game (and have been for decades) and measuring things to MEQ used to give you a reasonable middle ground. GEQ was weaker, TEQ was tougher.

Sure its not perfect - if you base everything to 4 point guard (or 6 point kabs/7 point fire warriors) you reach different conclusions. I think DE are fine in a tier list with say IG and Knights - but I think they are among the best mono codexes in the game. Mono Marines are much weaker than both of these. Then you get GK who are sub zero.

But then you have things like BA who are not amazing on their own, but with a cheap IG crutch are up there.

Tyel wrote:

 Irubius wrote:

Could this work at 1000 points?

I think you should do okay. Depending on points and what you have on those scourges I suspect optimally you would swap them for a second ravager, but it should do fine in 1k points.

Thank you for the reply I will see if I could fit another Ravager in there.

 Irubius wrote:

Could this work at 1000 points?

Archon
Archon

5 Warriors: Sybarite, Blaster
5 Warriors: Sybarite, Blaster
5 Warriors: Sybarite, Blaster
5 Warriors: Sybarite, Blaster

Venom
Venom
Venom
Raider

5 Scourges
1 Razorwing
1 Ravager

It would work. Have a look into the Lanchester square law.

 Irubius wrote:

Could this work at 1000 points?

Archon
Archon

5 Warriors: Sybarite, Blaster
5 Warriors: Sybarite, Blaster
5 Warriors: Sybarite, Blaster
5 Warriors: Sybarite, Blaster

Venom
Venom
Venom
Raider

5 Scourges
1 Razorwing
1 Ravager

Yes, looks like a pretty decent battalion.

Thinking about Talos pain engines. Any good?

 Irubius wrote:

Thinking about Talos pain engines. Any good?

Yes they are great. Ridiculously tanky for their points when buffed to T7 4++. Macro scalpels do good damage too.

barboggo wrote:

 Irubius wrote:

Thinking about Talos pain engines. Any good?

Yes they are great. Ridiculously tanky for their points when buffed to T7 4++. Macro scalpels do good damage too.

Yeah I thought they looked great paper. How many is ok in 1k?
If you look at my list above. Thinking about dropping some things for Talos pain engines and obviously a Haemonculus HQ

IDK if anyone has said this yet or not.

But each Raider and Venom box comes with 2-3 guys that hang off the vehicle, some like them on, other dont.

If you dont like them hanging on, save them and use them for extra guys, give them your assault weapons to make them for dynamic. After 5 Venoms you can have a full 10man unit easily at the cost of a bag of bases.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
IDK if anyone has said this yet or not.

But each Raider and Venom box comes with 2-3 guys that hang off the vehicle, some like them on, other dont.

If you dont like them hanging on, save them and use them for extra guys, give them your assault weapons to make them for dynamic. After 5 Venoms you can have a full 10man unit easily at the cost of a bag of bases.

I had a go at this recently. They're not painted yet, but this is what I've got so far:

Archon:




Sybarite:

Is dual Heatlances the way to go on the Talos?

 Irubius wrote:

Is dual Heatlances the way to go on the Talos?

I'd go with Haywire, since they're much cheaper and have better range.

 TheFleshIsWeak wrote:

 Irubius wrote:

Is dual Heatlances the way to go on the Talos?

I'd go with Haywire, since they're much cheaper and have better range.

Alright. So range over damage? Seems like Haywire are more situational? If there are no or few vehicles they seem like a waste, no?

 Amishprn86 wrote:
IDK if anyone has said this yet or not.

But each Raider and Venom box comes with 2-3 guys that hang off the vehicle, some like them on, other dont.

If you dont like them hanging on, save them and use them for extra guys, give them your assault weapons to make them for dynamic. After 5 Venoms you can have a full 10man unit easily at the cost of a bag of bases.

I noticed this as well. My army is almost entirely 3rd edition starter set guys (FLGS selling 3rd ed starter set for $30, so I bout 3 sets) plus some ebayed 3rd edition Raiders. My only newish models are Venoms and the wyches on them. I just stuck them together with my 3rd edition (on foot) beastmaster to make another unit of wyches.

 Irubius wrote:

 TheFleshIsWeak wrote:

 Irubius wrote:

Is dual Heatlances the way to go on the Talos?

I'd go with Haywire, since they're much cheaper and have better range.

Alright. So range over damage? Seems like Haywire are more situational? If there are no or few vehicles they seem like a waste, no?

Yes, b.c you are saving 4pts each one and b.c a DL is just a better HL, also being S6 means they are not good against vehicles, so that leaves infantry.. and HWB are better against both. HL's are good for DG and some characters, way to niche for their cost.

Haywire is amazing. I'd go with haywire every time. I had tried heat lances a few times and it just doens balance out. Heat lances low strength usually hurts them when trying to fire at a juice target, which is what you want with d6 damage.

Haywire's multiple shots helps to offset the mediocre BS of the Talos and the 4s to cause mortal wounds against vehicles is immensely powerful. With so many knights, tanks, land raiders, transports running around, haywire is a must have.

 Irubius wrote:

 TheFleshIsWeak wrote:

 Irubius wrote:

Is dual Heatlances the way to go on the Talos?

I'd go with Haywire, since they're much cheaper and have better range.

Alright. So range over damage? Seems like Haywire are more situational? If there are no or few vehicles they seem like a waste, no?

The problem with Heat Lances is that regardless of what platform you put them on (Talos, bikes or Scourge), they just don't have a target they excel against. They are meant for anti tank but at S6 and the changes between editions with the way Deep Strike and Melta works now they are just terrible for doing that and being single shot and mid strength means they are pretty bad against infantry, at least Blasters would be wounding most infantry on 2's and even Custodes jet bikes on 3's.

The thing with Talos is that they are only BS4+ so your main use for them is combat, which they excel at, with Haywire providing decent supporting anti tank and infantry fire power without being brilliant at it. Splinter Cannons are overcosted in general and the most expensive option for Talos so don't take them, Heatlance is useless and the Stinger Pod is decent for anti infantry but not really any better than the Haywire Blaster and doesn't have the utility of anti tank.

At 1Kpts I'd go with a squad of 2, maybe 3, but no more. Whilst you can run 9 at 1K, you will not have many friends left.

The Haywire is also Assault which given the Talos has only a 4+ BS any minus 1 can really sting, and whilst its not great against troops the Splinter Cannons are far weaker against their 'wrong' target than Haywiire

Great! Thanks for the helpful replies. I have read people saying that Haywire are one of the great things in this Codex I just didn't understand why. Now I do

 Irubius wrote:

Great! Thanks for the helpful replies. I have read people saying that Haywire are one of the great things in this Codex I just didn't understand why. Now I do

I think in general a lot of people overrate the Haywire Blaster a bit, but it's still one of the better weapons we've got and a very useful tool, especially against T8.

Haywires with Doom support are absolute murder on vehicles. The wound reroll means you've got a ~75% chance per hit to drop a mortal wound.

Haywires by themselves are considerably less spectacular, but still potent.

Built three with Haywire now