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@Ben2: Leave the politics out of this, please.

Thank you.

Don't dare returning to the topic...


Working on a public secondary school under... let's call it difficult conditions, I can not see this working for me or my current school. 95% of the students could not afford a meaningful supply of hobby essentials, so the "School Club" would have to provide everything. I do not see that working for more than a week or two.

But I am not from NA anyway, so I am not in the target demographic to begin with. I am curious how it works out though, and would appreciate feedback from teachers who actually run one of these clubs for a while.

There is the little yellow triangle of moderation in the corner, you could use that rather then dragging this topic very offtopic .

I do think this is pretty good, some places could've used some hobbies as far as I remember from the old schools I was at

EDIT: Forget it.

Hey guys, if we could stick to the topic of Warhammer Clubs in school that would be grrrreat!

edited by Manchu

Still, I like the idea of the clubs. We had D&D clubs, and yet we didn't sacrifice fellow students to dark powers or anything. Warhammer clubs would be nice. Heads not buried in phones 24/7 would be nice. Many an introverted kid finds socialization in clubs like these, which is a good thing.

The original post has since been edited, it mentioned SJWs which tends to mean women and/or people who aren't white.

That is certainly not what it means, but congratulations for managing to keep grinding that political axe on this topic.

Anyways, it seems that some people really can't stop politically commentating on this in general. May need an overall cleanup.

Two moderators before me have asked that this topic not be derailed by ideological bickering. I have cleaned up the thread. Consider this a final warning. Thanks!

There are so many kids at my school which a program like this would benefit. Whilst I know there is something in it for GW, the whole idea has inspired me and will ultimately enhance the lives of many students at my school. I've been collecting warhammer etc. for a very long time now, but this is the single-most generous and thoughtful thing I've seen GW do.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/763215.page

This thread also shows that, whilst its a small sample size, there is a huge uptake of Warhammer in the under 18s. So a school program makes a lot of sense as it seems to be the prime age bracket where people get into Wargaming

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So, how many more wedgies do you think they will create?
Are wedgies even still a thing?

Ok, I joke but this is good. It means GW is finally trying to reach out and expand their player base instead of relying on word of mouth, and that's good for the hobby as a whole. Most start in their teens anyway, so this is an appropriate age range.

We have #safespaces now!

Big question, can these be used at the college level to garner interest?

 masterdoobie wrote:
There are so many kids at my school which a program like this would benefit. Whilst I know there is something in it for GW, the whole idea has inspired me and will ultimately enhance the lives of many students at my school. I've been collecting warhammer etc. for a very long time now, but this is the single-most generous and thoughtful thing I've seen GW do.

I'd actually question whether it's ethical for a teacher to introduce something like Warhammer to their kids in Au or NZ, given the pricing of the products. It's one thing for us oldies who have jobs, or for kids who get into it via their friends, but teachers have a huge influence over their pupils, and given the fact that you're basically in a position where you're essentially "pushing" the game in the same way that a redshirt would.

And yes, I'm serious. A box of 10 Primaris is AU$98, or you can get the push-fit box for "only" $25 for 3 models. 5 Devastators @ $78 and so on. No, I'm not attempting to turn this into another ANZ price bitching thread, and maybe at UK or even US prices I could see it, but I'm dead serious when I question the ethics of encouraging kids/teens to buy into "the GW hobby" from a teacher - as opposed to a peer or a game-shop salesperson.

Board games I can see as a very different beast, especially as (even with expansions) they're much more reasonably priced and also self-contained.

As for "generous", it seems pretty underwhelming to me. This appears to be the ANZ pack.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1aFtoIWpgsYokWzMqQAJ3MqXPTzVu1T3Z/view

I can see where your coming from but even in the UK Warhammer has always been "that expensive hobby" to kids. I don't see any harm in introducing them to it and I suspect that the type of school where a teacher would aim to introduce hte students would at least have students from backgrounds where they might be able to afford it. Otherwise it won't exactly get anywhere.

Warhammer isn't like drugs, being exposed to it won't make you addicted and likely to commit crimes, lie, cheat and steal to get your next plastic fix. It's simply a hobby like fishing, golfing, photography, whitewater rafting.

Heck many schools play rugby and take students on trips to the alps for skiing lessons - now those are FAR more dangerous things than paying some money for models.

It also has various and sundry educational benefits.

It helps with reading comprehension, mental arithmetic, patience, fine motor control.

There’s a lot for any school to like in that bundle.

I'd say it can teach better sportsmanship than most sports classes too!

 Azazelx wrote:

 masterdoobie wrote:
There are so many kids at my school which a program like this would benefit. Whilst I know there is something in it for GW, the whole idea has inspired me and will ultimately enhance the lives of many students at my school. I've been collecting warhammer etc. for a very long time now, but this is the single-most generous and thoughtful thing I've seen GW do.

I'd actually question whether it's ethical for a teacher to introduce something like Warhammer to their kids in Au or NZ, given the pricing of the products. It's one thing for us oldies who have jobs, or for kids who get into it via their friends, but teachers have a huge influence over their pupils, and given the fact that you're basically in a position where you're essentially "pushing" the game in the same way that a redshirt would.

And yes, I'm serious. A box of 10 Primaris is AU$98, or you can get the push-fit box for "only" $25 for 3 models. 5 Devastators @ $78 and so on. No, I'm not attempting to turn this into another ANZ price bitching thread, and maybe at UK or even US prices I could see it, but I'm dead serious when I question the ethics of encouraging kids/teens to buy into "the GW hobby" from a teacher - as opposed to a peer or a game-shop salesperson.

Board games I can see as a very different beast, especially as (even with expansions) they're much more reasonably priced and also self-contained.

As for "generous", it seems pretty underwhelming to me. This appears to be the ANZ pack.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1aFtoIWpgsYokWzMqQAJ3MqXPTzVu1T3Z/view

A teacher shouldn't point out to their students the GW Webstore and say "There, buy here". He should also teach them to be responsible consumers, to buy from FLGS, looks for discounts, and basically how to make all of their pennies count.
Personally, for me, one of the most enjoyables parts of the hobby is to look for miniatures for the cheap. And I'm not talking about ugly and badly painted miniatures on ebay. I'm talking about looking in apps for selling locally, or forums, etc... for those sweet sweet clearances some people does where they are selling new in boxes miniatures for 20 or 30% of his retail price.
I have the money, but when I can have one unopened box of 10 new, plastic Rubric Marines for 10€ instead of 40€, it always feels much more sweet. Is like hunting. It is fun on hitself.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It also has various and sundry educational benefits.

It helps with reading comprehension, mental arithmetic, patience, fine motor control.

There’s a lot for any school to like in that bundle.

Reminds of The Wire.

To teach the kids maths, he lets them shoot dice and gamble!


Of course, once the club is set up and dependant on the teacher's knowledge, the play list could always extend to a relatively cheaper game from the many Historical systems available.

I suppose a real visionary teacher with time on their hands could then be introducing history, geography and international relations into the mix.

Oh certainly the Historical games could branch into that very easily, however a lot rides on having the right teacher with the inspiration to do that and the interest. Plus I think for historical the teacher would need to build up forces for their students to use - ergo instead of waiting 5 years to build a battle of Waterloo force with the class, the teacher has one to use in battle.

 Overread wrote:
I can see where your coming from but even in the UK Warhammer has always been "that expensive hobby" to kids. I don't see any harm in introducing them to it and I suspect that the type of school where a teacher would aim to introduce hte students would at least have students from backgrounds where they might be able to afford it. Otherwise it won't exactly get anywhere.
Warhammer isn't like drugs, being exposed to it won't make you addicted and likely to commit crimes, lie, cheat and steal to get your next plastic fix. It's simply a hobby like fishing, golfing, photography, whitewater rafting.
Heck many schools play rugby and take students on trips to the alps for skiing lessons - now those are FAR more dangerous things than paying some money for models.

You know what? If it's student-requested and pretty much student-led so that the teacher acts more as a moderator and prevents kids being douchey to one another, then I'd have no problem with it. Particularly in a more middle-class or affluent area where kids are more easily able to afford this stuff. Warhammer wasn't cheap when i was a teenager, but it's on an entirely different level here now. But yeah, if it was student-requested and then led, then I'd be all for it. I'm certainly not opposed to new blood joining the hobby, it's just the method of entry here that's important.

alphaecho wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It also has various and sundry educational benefits.
It helps with reading comprehension, mental arithmetic, patience, fine motor control.
There’s a lot for any school to like in that bundle.

Reminds of The Wire.
To teach the kids maths, he lets them shoot dice and gamble!
Of course, once the club is set up and dependant on the teacher's knowledge, the play list could always extend to a relatively cheaper game from the many Historical systems available.
I suppose a real visionary teacher with time on their hands could then be introducing history, geography and international relations into the mix.

You know a game that's great for map-reading skills, hand-eye coordination, positional relativity, etc? Grand Theft Auto V.
My point there is that most games have something to offer (The Wire example being a great one!) if you have a suitably clued-in teacher, or just one who has open eyes to the possibilities.

Skirmish warband-scale games would work a lot better than "Army" level games for obvious reasons. Something like Kill Team (or a fantasy version of it.. Mordheim revival?) perhaps. Path to Glory and AoS Skirmish might be a bit too open/large.

Looking at the starter kit for ANZ, it seems like GW would be replying on enthusiastic teachers to bring in a lot of their own stuff - which on one hand it's fine for enthusiastic teachers to put in, but it seems a pretty slim offering from GW as a starter kit when they'd expect to make an awful lot more back from either the kids or the school itself. I dunno.

I think getting teachers on board is a smart move, see thing is student move through schools whilst teachers remain far longer. I know when I was at school the Warhammer hobby happened within the students, but it moved with them. Which meant whilst it was ok perhaps 3 or 4 years above me, my year and all those below that year were mostly empty of fans.

If you attach it to the teaching staff you've more chance of it lasting long term because the teacher will remain and will have more interest in branching out to spread it to all years not just the one they are in with their mates.

It's also a lot easier for GW to deal with a mature adult instead of young teenagers. Again not saying student's can't do this and I bet if some learn of it they'll try and push for one of the teaching staff to take it up for them.

Uh... I don't think you fully understand what "student-led" means in a pedagogical sense. What I wrote would mean that the teacher would do (most of) interfacing with GW, while students might do some of it, as well as likely have the responsibility of promoting it within the school, making sure that others are invited and made to feel welcome, etc.

See, it isn't and should never be teachers' (unpaid) jobs to promote any specific product, including GW's stuff within a school. If someone wants to do that, then more power to them, but do it the feth outside of a school because it becomes a huge conflict of interest to have a teacher pushing any product, and if you're a teacher your first responsibility needs to be to those kids.

The point of a club like this should (yes, should) be a lot wider than providing a place to play Warhams at lunchtime. Making the "club" be more than just happy hobbytime to older students so that they can practise things like leadership and organisational skills in a meaningful way, and then as students get older they would (theoretically) inherit those leadership and responsibility positions. To use a secondary school analogy, the Year 7s can rock up and play with their toy soldiers at lunchtime. The year 11s and 12s (and maybe some 10s) should be playing - yes, but also spending some of their time (after school, during club time, whenever) writing proposals for funding via the SRC, potentially having responsibility for building the club - some fundraising, building and scratch-building club terrain, etc etc while the teacher acts as a mentor and guide and "fixer".

If done correctly - as explained above, you then have successive waves of student leaders who "come up" through the years of involvement to take those leadership and responsibility positions.

People here also need to think about the makeup of classes within a school. Sure, you can use something like gaming as a stimulus to all kinds of learning, but teachers have to teach the curriculum, and depending on what it is, what's proscribed and in how much detail - and what year level it is, they need to (and will) teach that curriculum even if the kids are super interested in learning about Vikings. Following on from that, unless something is being run for one class only, club members would come from across different years and different classes within those years - and as such have different subjects, different teachers and potentially different work in those subjects that they do share by virtue of being in the same year level, and so on. That's why it's really only useful for extracurricular learning and for socialisation/leadership/etc rather than for class-based maths or English, etc.