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 Nevelon wrote:

 Elbows wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
Have you seen the payload of a M24-Hind?

Sure, and it doesn't approach anything like some of the flyers in the game. The Valkyrie is maybe the most "correctly" armed of the bunch - a futuristic copy of the Hind look.

My opinion of the Stormtalon improved greatly once I stopped thinking of it as a jet fighter, and more like a chunk of cold war soviet gunship.

As a jet if fails on pretty much every level. As a helicopter sans rotors, it’s pretty good.


--

If you want something that looks like it doesn’t need space-magic to keep airborne, the Crimson Hunter/Hemlock are pretty good. Ironic, as they are the space magic faction.

In 40K aeronautics IS space magic.

But yes, most of the imperial flies are self-propelled love songs to thrust beating drag.

 Nevelon wrote:
If you want something that looks like it doesn’t need space-magic to keep airborne, the Crimson Hunter/Hemlock are pretty good. Ironic, as they are the space magic faction.

The voidraven bomber and razorwing jetfighter are even better examples. Basically the same thing but their faction doesn't use space magic.

 IronBrand wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:
If you want something that looks like it doesn’t need space-magic to keep airborne, the Crimson Hunter/Hemlock are pretty good. Ironic, as they are the space magic faction.

The voidraven bomber and razorwing jetfighter are even better examples. Basically the same thing but their faction doesn't use space magic.

Yeah, their flyers are properly proportioned. The necron flyer would also be good if it weren't for that stupid hole in the cockpit.

Overall, it’s actually the Tau ships that look the clunkiest and least likely to be able to fly. You can almost imagine a wing of Riptides grabbing their flyers and hurling them at the enemy in the same way someone tosses a paper airplane. Made of lead.

 Stormonu wrote:
Overall, it’s actually the Tau ships that look the clunkiest and least likely to be able to fly. You can almost imagine a wing of Riptides grabbing their flyers and hurling them at the enemy in the same way someone tosses a paper airplane. Made of lead.

Yeah, they don't look too good either. They made them look like the skimmers when they should really look like the Tigershark or Manta.

Davor wrote:

 n0t_u wrote:
The SoB are the least likely to have sleeker new vehicles, they'd more likely have relics and stuff.

Not sure how a giant organ will make a vehicle look sleeker.

*Joke about Sisters falling to Slaanesh*

 Sim-Life wrote:

Davor wrote:

 n0t_u wrote:
The SoB are the least likely to have sleeker new vehicles, they'd more likely have relics and stuff.

Not sure how a giant organ will make a vehicle look sleeker.

*Joke about Sisters falling to Slaanesh*

It would help with armor penetration.
I miss the old vehicle rules. Making jokes about pentrating a tanks rear don't make sense anymore

Most of the wings wouldn't even work as wings. they're the wrong shape, the wings on a Stormhawk, Stormraven, Valkyrie, they all lack the right shape. their wings would be utterly useless for providing lift. I tend to agree that on most IoM vehicles Wings are more a matter of tradtion, essentially a "vestigal structure"

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
It's my observation that if GW properly designed a 25mm scale vehicle to have proper proportions, it probably be a lot bigger, and therefore harder to transport, more expensive to produce, etc.
Its the same reason why Rhinos are so tiny; manufacturing and logistics.

I get what they are trying to go for; they want to make the Imperium look industrial, with harsh looking, functional vehicles. The problem though is that such designs tend to lend themselves to being huge, and its difficult to do that if you have to consider table size and cost of manufacturing, so they need to shrink it down some. Which makes it look disproportionate and squat. I mean, a stormraven should really look more like the Thunderhawk, but they couldn't do that because no one would buy a standard plastic kit that's nearly FW costs and would be a pita to carry around.

But then, it seems weird to give them wings. They just end up looking stunted and silly.

Wouldn't it make more sense to have extra engines providing lift, rather than wings. e.g. something like this:



I mean, in terms of an industrial look, they might even be able to make them look like converted Rhinos and such.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
IYou forgot the Organ Artillery. Never forget the Organ Artillery.
I really want to know what that the gunner is playing on the Exorcist. Tocata and Fugue? O Fortuna? Dies Irae? Powerwolf? Do the missiles come out at a rhythm, or does she just slap all of the keys at once?

Perhaps this is why the number of shots is random? The organist just plays her music with no regard to the actual battle. If there happens to be a quiet section, there won't be many missiles firing. Hey, you can't expect a musician to ruin her piece just for the sake of your battle.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
You forgot the Organ Artillery. Never forget the Organ Artillery.
I really want to know what that the gunner is playing on the Exorcist. Tocata and Fugue? O Fortuna? Dies Irae? Powerwolf? Do the missiles come out at a rhythm, or does she just slap all of the keys at once?

Somehow I don't see a sister of battle riding around in an exorcist playing resurrection by erection or demons are a girls best friend while the battle rages on around her. If anything she probably just plays chopsticks.

 IronBrand wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
You forgot the Organ Artillery. Never forget the Organ Artillery.
I really want to know what that the gunner is playing on the Exorcist. Tocata and Fugue? O Fortuna? Dies Irae? Powerwolf? Do the missiles come out at a rhythm, or does she just slap all of the keys at once?

Somehow I don't see a sister of battle riding around in an exorcist playing resurrection by erection or demons are a girls best friend while the battle rages on around her. If anything she probably just plays chopsticks.

Oh, I don't know, these might be on point












Powerwolf was a jest. Its more likely she would play the former three.
Man, can you imagine her playing flight of the bumblebee? That's some proper dakka that is.
I don't even think the Exorcist has enough ammunition for that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 vipoid wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
It's my observation that if GW properly designed a 25mm scale vehicle to have proper proportions, it probably be a lot bigger, and therefore harder to transport, more expensive to produce, etc.
Its the same reason why Rhinos are so tiny; manufacturing and logistics.

I get what they are trying to go for; they want to make the Imperium look industrial, with harsh looking, functional vehicles. The problem though is that such designs tend to lend themselves to being huge, and its difficult to do that if you have to consider table size and cost of manufacturing, so they need to shrink it down some. Which makes it look disproportionate and squat. I mean, a stormraven should really look more like the Thunderhawk, but they couldn't do that because no one would buy a standard plastic kit that's nearly FW costs and would be a pita to carry around.

But then, it seems weird to give them wings. They just end up looking stunted and silly.

I think that might have been a conscious choice to make them look anachronistic.
If you think about it, the Imperium of Man is a faction of anachronisms. You have advanced, energy based small arms being used along with swords and solid projectile weapons, you have skimmers being used alongside tracked vehicles, you
have walkers being used with horses, etc.

Your VTOL example looks pretty sophisticated, and they most likely didn't want to go that route, instead wanting to reserve that sort of look for the Tau, which do tend to have wingless, VTOL type craft (even though their flyers still don't look right)
So designing a vehicle that has wings when it really shouldn't makes sense if you look at it that way. I think the intent was always to have them look clunky and unsophisticated looking, and wrestling with the scale compounded it.

 IronBrand wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
You forgot the Organ Artillery. Never forget the Organ Artillery.
I really want to know what that the gunner is playing on the Exorcist. Tocata and Fugue? O Fortuna? Dies Irae? Powerwolf? Do the missiles come out at a rhythm, or does she just slap all of the keys at once?

Somehow I don't see a sister of battle riding around in an exorcist playing resurrection by erection or demons are a girls best friend while the battle rages on around her. If anything she probably just plays chopsticks.

Miriael Sabathiel likely played Daemons are a Girl's Best Friend, while most Sisters likely play the 1812 Overture (the only song written to use cannons as percussive instruments).

Canonically though, the blame is apparently on a temperamental machine spirit (who I'm willing to bet only fires the max shots when you play well, and when your playing sucks it only fires one, if at all).

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 IronBrand wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
You forgot the Organ Artillery. Never forget the Organ Artillery.
I really want to know what that the gunner is playing on the Exorcist. Tocata and Fugue? O Fortuna? Dies Irae? Powerwolf? Do the missiles come out at a rhythm, or does she just slap all of the keys at once?

Somehow I don't see a sister of battle riding around in an exorcist playing resurrection by erection or demons are a girls best friend while the battle rages on around her. If anything she probably just plays chopsticks.

Miriael Sabathiel likely played Daemons are a Girl's Best Friend, while most Sisters likely play the 1812 Overture (the only song written to use cannons as percussive instruments).

Canonically though, the blame is apparently on a temperamental machine spirit (who I'm willing to bet only fires the max shots when you play well, and when your playing sucks it only fires one, if at all).

Flyers of the Imperium are an insult to the Imperium and the Emp!

Fugly like sin!!!

 vipoid wrote:


But then, it seems weird to give them wings. They just end up looking stunted and silly.

Wouldn't it make more sense to have extra engines providing lift, rather than wings. e.g. something like this:

Wings give then extra space for Hardpoints and weapon's, just look at the Valkirye, they seem like they're there more for extra weapon mounts and to serve as stabilising landing legs than anything else, also give good cover for anyone entering or exiting through the side doors as well.

 gbghg wrote:

 vipoid wrote:


But then, it seems weird to give them wings. They just end up looking stunted and silly.

Wouldn't it make more sense to have extra engines providing lift, rather than wings. e.g. something like this:

Wings give then extra space for Hardpoints and weapon's, just look at the Valkirye, they seem like they're there more for extra weapon mounts and to serve as stabilising landing legs than anything else, also give good cover for anyone entering or exiting through the side doors as well.

from an aerodynamic POV the wings on a Valk aren't there for lift thats for sure

An apache gunship has wings. It is not for lift. The Stormtalon reminds me of the old Orca's from Command & Conquer.

BrianDavion wrote:

 gbghg wrote:

 vipoid wrote:


But then, it seems weird to give them wings. They just end up looking stunted and silly.

Wouldn't it make more sense to have extra engines providing lift, rather than wings. e.g. something like this:

Wings give then extra space for Hardpoints and weapon's, just look at the Valkirye, they seem like they're there more for extra weapon mounts and to serve as stabilising landing legs than anything else, also give good cover for anyone entering or exiting through the side doors as well.

from an aerodynamic POV the wings on a Valk aren't there for lift thats for sure

They do make it look good though, thats for sure. Imperial Aircraft in general are just a flying middle finger to aerodynamics and I can't help but love them for it.

It's 40k, everybody is a moron. Free thought and new ideas are crimess against the machine god. The Leman russ belongs in WW1, makes the ork Mig 15 look advanced.

Avor wrote:
It's 40k, everybody is a moron. Free thought and new ideas are crimess against the machine god. The Leman russ belongs in WW1, makes the ork Mig 15 look advanced.

The chassis is WW1, but the turret and cannons are surely modern.

 Stormonu wrote:
When you have anti-grav technology, you really don't need wings. Anti-grav could make a refrigerator fly if you want too.

I imagine the presence of wings is more a ritualistic thing for the Imperium more than anything else.

"Wings doth appease the flying spirit of a machine, granting its spirit both agility and grace and declaring it be that most daring of vehicles, the flying machine"

Exactly.

The 'wings' are more stabilizer fins and weapon mounting points than anything else.

*checks Razorwing*
*checks Voidraven*

Nope, all good here...

 n0t_u wrote:
The SoB are the least likely to have sleeker new vehicles, they'd more likely have relics and stuff.

Well maybe - although really old stuff may well be sleeker and less blocky - but now with many icons slapped on.