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 Orlanth wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:


So you play the sarcasm card for that post after THIS was your first post:

There was a gap of weeks between the two, so they were not necessarily written under the same mentality.
My first post was my assessment of 6th, which was faie as it critiqued 5th 6th and 8th. Strange how you missed that was as you quoted it.

 Just Tony wrote:

So having a sarcastic post that was meant as tongue in cheek following a post that said what was REALLY on your mind is somehow our mistake.

the time gap accounts for this, and the relative tones of the two posts.

But never mind, I get it, you are an oversensitive 6th fanboi who gets triggered if critique is mentioned, even apparently if the post critiques Warhammer as a whole. Moving on.

I'm accountable for my posts regardless of how much time has passed between them. EVERYBODY is accountable for their posts regardless of how much time has passed between them.


And "triggered"? I've seen your post history, you're better than this. Also, I don't get "triggered" at every critique, just the off base ones or any based on opinion rather than mechanics.

 Just Tony wrote:


I'm accountable for my posts regardless of how much time has passed between them. EVERYBODY is accountable for their posts regardless of how much time has passed between them.

.

You miss the obvious. The tone of a self evidentary critique post is not likely to be the same tone to a self evidentary humerous post two weeks later. So you cant forcibly import the tone of one into the other.

Unless you are triggered and are looking for something to latch onto to validate getting upset about it..

Anyone in the inland empire , socal area? Ide be more than happy to play

I would get into 6th edition if there was people in Washington state that played. Sadly, it's hard to find people that play WFB since everyone left for KoW and 40k.

Try social media, I found people in Indiana pretty easy when looking. Larger towns game stores have bulletin boards that help out a lot.

 fullmetaljacket wrote:
Anyone in the inland empire , socal area? Ide be more than happy to play

I’m in the SoCal area and have a small group of 3 other people who play fantasy. We mostly play 8th but I’m sure we could get talked into 6th. We have High Elves, Dwarfs, Orcs & Goblins,and Skaven armies ready to go with a chaos army coming in the hopefully near future.

 Just Tony wrote:
Try social media, I found people, in Indiana pretty easy when looking. Larger towns game stores have bulletin boards that help out a lot.

I'll have to try that. I'll take a look on Facebook to see if there is any groups. As for FLGS I'll have to see if they have a bulletin board, but I'll also keep in mind that the pool to play 6th edition or anything prior to AoS will be very slim. Thanks though, I really do appreciate the help.

 Grensche wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:
Try social media, I found people, in Indiana pretty easy when looking. Larger towns game stores have bulletin boards that help out a lot.

I'll have to try that. I'll take a look on Facebook to see if there is any groups. As for FLGS I'll have to see if they have a bulletin board, but I'll also keep in mind that the pool to play 6th edition or anything prior to AoS will be very slim. Thanks though, I really do appreciate the help.

I'm actually finding it easier to convert/recruit new players to play 6th than AoS. No one around here likes AoS at all. I had intended to run a couple of my armies to try it out when i first came back, gave up on that and pulled out the sixth books, Now we have a healthy bunch of people playing and collecting.

Consider to simply go back to Ravening Hordes - so much better balanced than the Army Books, IMO.

Missing all the characters, new stuff, and the new armies though, which would make my tomb kings, ogres etc. useless. I find there's something "OP" (Hate that term) in every army. The trick was learning to deal with each.

 brr-icy wrote:

 Grensche wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:
Try social media, I found people, in Indiana pretty easy when looking. Larger towns game stores have bulletin boards that help out a lot.

I'll have to try that. I'll take a look on Facebook to see if there is any groups. As for FLGS I'll have to see if they have a bulletin board, but I'll also keep in mind that the pool to play 6th edition or anything prior to AoS will be very slim. Thanks though, I really do appreciate the help.

I'm actually finding it easier to convert/recruit new players to play 6th than AoS. No one around here likes AoS at all. I had intended to run a couple of my armies to try it out when i first came back, gave up on that and pulled out the sixth books, Now we have a healthy bunch of people playing and collecting.

It is better to convert people to WHFB from AoS and leave editions out of it. Going against the current meta is the hard part, re-establishing an oldhammer community is the goal, and for that when people say 'which edition' the best answer is 'depends on the armies' and 'depends on the scenario'. This keeps it as open as possible. Moving from AoS specifically to 6th or 8th will have problems.
Be prepared for an ongoing choice. Some of the best scenario packs were made for 5th, you could play 5th with them, or not.
Later scenario packs were for 6th or 8th, now with freedom to play any edition you can match each up to its allotted ruleset, or choose your own.

I've noticed in my area that majority of players tend to play what is new and current. Anything older they just shrug off saying that X edition is better than older edition. Rather than being more accepting to going back to play an older edition.

But I will keep posting on my FLGS Facebook page's community section in hopes of finding someone that is open to playing the older editions.

It's hard to get people to play the new stuff with the universal loathing locally of AoS, and the 40k players I'm not really interested in hanging out with. Plus i'm not exactly hanging with the young crowd anymore. Most of us are 35-45, and if i'm going to the trouble of getting the stuff off the shelf, i want the game to last 3-5 hours at minimum since take down and set up are close to an hour or more, anything less and it's more time efficient to just turn on the console and play a game lol. All of the players locally are either jumping straight into 6th from never playing before, or prefer 6th.

"New, Shiny" effects all hobbies. Just because something is newer, people will shun the (sometimes better) older versions, whether it be a ruleset or a collectable or whatever.

 Grensche wrote:
I've noticed in my area that majority of players tend to play what is new and current. Anything older they just shrug off saying that X edition is better than older edition. Rather than being more accepting to going back to play an older edition.

But I will keep posting on my FLGS Facebook page's community section in hopes of finding someone that is open to playing the older editions.

At my Armory, there was a guy who started in 6th 40K up to 7th 40K. It took him seeing a 3rd Ed. game run to give it a shot. After two games playing 3rd Ed. he's since gone on ebay to track down EVERY book he needs for all the armies he ran in 6th/7th, and is starting a Chaos Marines force explicitly for 3rd. Sometimes all it takes is them SEEING the game played. Getting you and a friend/storeworker playing a game of 6th (or 8th, don't want to seem "triggered" ) in front of people will work wonders for starting an Oldhammer/Classichammer movement in your area.

I would play any edition if there were players to be found. Most of my army is built with 4th edition models. For years I was able to play regular games within my family, this is no longer an option as 2 of my adult sons have moved across the country and work limits the time for my youngest son. Playing only against my husband becomes very predictable.

As a 45 year old woman I don't exactly fit with the younger crowd but my young daughter will be given an army when she is old enough.

I am also an AD&D grognard running regular 2nd edition games lol

The only thing stopping me from playing the 6th edition on a regular basis, is not having someone nearby who wants to play the 6th edition on a regular basis.

I don't prefer 6th but it was an ok system.

I didn't like the huge disparity between power and dispel dice that certain armies could acrue (that was 6th edition right? the one where Tzeentch units generated dice and you could have MASSIVE power disparity?)

Everyone is quick to hate on 8th magic (it was flawed I'm not disputing that) but is everyone forgetting about how it felt to be the guy that brought 6 DD to a 20+ PD magic phase? Granted individual spells weren't as nasty as 8th but magic was still wonky in 6th.

I didn't like that entire ranks could be destroyed on a charge with no hope of fighting back; and then subsequent CR would just delete said unit. This is something that I feel 8th correctly addressed.

I'd still happily play either edition though - anything is better than fantasy skirmish; I want to see hordes of RnF infantry duking it out with each other when I play fantasy!

Doesn't look like it. In the 6th Ed Hordes of Chaos (I'm looking at a PDF) book Horrors of Tzeentch have bound spells they can cast that don't use Magic dice.

Looks like Tzeentch demon heroes and lords could take a 10 point Mark to trade 1 Wound for 1D3 power dice in that turn?

And hey, Fantasy Skirmish isn't so bad - 6th Ed had rules for it in the core book!

6E had the Border Princes campaign in the book!

 infinite_array wrote:
Doesn't look like it. In the 6th Ed Hordes of Chaos (I'm looking at a PDF) book Horrors of Tzeentch have bound spells they can cast that don't use Magic dice.

Looks like Tzeentch demon heroes and lords could take a 10 point Mark to trade 1 Wound for 1D3 power dice in that turn?

And hey, Fantasy Skirmish isn't so bad - 6th Ed had rules for it in the core book!

Ahh...maybe I was thinking of 7th then. I just remember not enjoying those magic phases, you know...where the vamp players would one-die invocation every magic phase with 15+ dice and by the end of the game their army was actually larger than when the game started.

no, i think in the army book, which came out after ravening hordes, you were able to give many units a mark of tzeentch, which generated 1 pd each... so yes, if you forced it, you were able to pretty outdice any magic opposition

Just picked up the 6th rulebook and the army books for Dark Elves, High Elves, Chaos, and Empire. Got them because they were cheap and I’m sure I can convince a friend to try it out.

 Moscha wrote:
no, i think in the army book, which came out after ravening hordes, you were able to give many units a mark of tzeentch, which generated 1 pd each... so yes, if you forced it, you were able to pretty outdice any magic opposition

So that was 6th then?

Yeah I just remember facing MSU Tzeentch and coming up against a LOT of power dice. The MoT could be given to chariots and infantry, I remember those being the primary offenders; in 2500 point games I remember there being upwards of like 5-6 chariots and 3-4 units of Warriors all generating PD for their wizard who would proceed to just delete units all over the place with his ULTIMATE POWAH!

And those Vampire armies that would just bog you down all game with skellies and zombies - raising their casualties faster than you could kill them (one-die invocation spam ftw) and creating units in your rear. Ah I just remembered!! Those were also the days of auto-breaking if you lost combat against a fear-causing enemy. THAT WAS HOW THE VAMP PLAYERS WON! I'm glad that rule is gone too. Although fear swung very heavily in the other direction in later editions and I didn't like that either (again, both being on the receiving and the dishing side of it)

Those were also the days of S7+ hits auto-killing chariots. I didn't like that either, regardless if I was playing with or against chariots. That rule I was glad to see go away too.

I'd still happily play it if it meant ranked-up fantasy games! Around here people pretty much stick with whatever's new, supported, and popular. So that means if I want to play with people at the FLGS I have to play AoS, Killteam, or 40k.

 badguyshaveallthefun wrote:
I don't prefer 6th but it was an ok system.

I didn't like the huge disparity between power and dispel dice that certain armies could acrue (that was 6th edition right? the one where Tzeentch units generated dice and you could have MASSIVE power disparity?)

Everyone is quick to hate on 8th magic (it was flawed I'm not disputing that) but is everyone forgetting about how it felt to be the guy that brought 6 DD to a 20+ PD magic phase? Granted individual spells weren't as nasty as 8th but magic was still wonky in 6th.

I didn't like that entire ranks could be destroyed on a charge with no hope of fighting back; and then subsequent CR would just delete said unit. This is something that I feel 8th correctly addressed.

I'd still happily play either edition though - anything is better than fantasy skirmish; I want to see hordes of RnF infantry duking it out with each other when I play fantasy!

First off, the Tzeentch dice thing was indeed a legitimate thing. I use it myself in several battle reports over at www.classichammer.com but it's important to note when you look at it that 1: I didn't spam MSU to get a wall of dice, and if I had the effectiveness of my entire army would have been compromised to capitalize on one phase that depends so heavily on random that one bad batch of rolling could cost me the match, 2: that it's expensive as all get out to get magic users that are Tzeentch in the first place so you're stuck with simple Chaos magic users with poor options for lores in the first place, and 3: the fact that you'll have to discard dice unless you spammed wizards to the max in the first place, and even then you aren't going to be able to fling everything you got because ranges and targeting restrictions are things in this game. I had a game just a couple weeks ago where I had literally nothing to cast because of ranges.

Second, the whole "wipe out the front rank" didn't happen nearly as often as people lament. Even using cav as an example, just average rolls leave you with attacks back AND a guarantee that they didn't outrun your Combat Res and wind up losing ON THE CHARGE. This is also mitigated by anyone building their units to actually take a charge. Spearmen, heavily armored troops with shield and hand weapon, you name it.



This kind of brings up something that bugs the hell out of me about the vocal internet WFB players: operating off the assumption that dice rolls work out perfectly to prove a point. You can't claim constants with any mechanic dependent on random dice rolls. I've seen six 1's rolled in one batch for 2+ armor saves before, so assuming that, using your example, a Tzeentch player will have max power dice, perfect range for all spells, successfully cast all spells without a single miscast, AND not get any spells stopped by the player is reaching. Actually, I've seen reaching before and it would be offended at being lumped in with whatever THIS is.


I know 6th isn't perfect, that's why we have house rules amending a few things. However, it comes closest in my mind compared to all other systems.

 Just Tony wrote:
I know 6th isn't perfect, that's why we have house rules amending a few things. However, it comes closest in my mind compared to all other systems.

Exactly. Better overall balance than other editions, before things got silly.

What are those houserules, by the way?

The Power Dice rules from 7th. Power dice generated by a wizard can only be used by THAT wizard. I'm thinking honestly that Arcane Items should have that caveat as well, but typically if it says "add to the pool" then it's community dice.

Insane Courage. Snake Eyes always pass any Leadership, and it can stop that Fear Autobreak.

If there's another, I will have to think of it later. I'd personally also ban Lapping Around.

 Just Tony wrote:
I'd personally also ban Lapping Around.

I agree with this, as changing a unit's physical base configuration / footprint is a bad idea, even if it creates a decision point that potentially accelerates the ultimate resolution of the fight.

Houserule, I'd suggest units to be of fixed footprint:
* minimum 100mm wide; and
* at least 20mm wider than deep.

20mm infantry could be 5 wide, up to 4 deep, but going 5 deep would require going 6 wide.
25mm could be 4 wide, but only 3 deep; going 4 deep would require 125mm frontage;
Cavalry could only be 1 rank deep, requiring 125mm frontage to get a 2nd rank.

Bretonnian Lance formation would allow Knights to be as deep as they are wide, so they could be 4 wide for a 2nd rank.

 Just Tony wrote:
The Power Dice rules from 7th. Power dice generated by a wizard can only be used by THAT wizard. I'm thinking honestly that Arcane Items should have that caveat as well, but typically if it says "add to the pool" then it's community dice.

Yes, that was a really good change that 7th made. Good houserule for 6th.

Insane Courage. Snake Eyes always pass any Leadership, and it can stop that Fear Autobreak.

Yeah you can use that, but basically it is window dressing. If you got to take a test which in other cases would result in an autobreak, you pass 1 of 36 tests in average. So that has an effect maybe every 6-10 th game you play.
Not really helping against the autobreak rule of combat lost, fear + outnumbered in 6th.

If there's another, I will have to think of it later. I'd personally also ban Lapping Around.

Yes, I found lapping around more of a nuisance than anything else in 6th. Some relic they fortunately got rid off in 7th, too. So a really good houserule, that is.

 Moscha wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:
The Power Dice rules from 7th. Power dice generated by a wizard can only be used by THAT wizard. I'm thinking honestly that Arcane Items should have that caveat as well, but typically if it says "add to the pool" then it's community dice.

Yes, that was a really good change that 7th made. Good houserule for 6th.

Insane Courage. Snake Eyes always pass any Leadership, and it can stop that Fear Autobreak.

Yeah you can use that, but basically it is window dressing. If you got to take a test which in other cases would result in an autobreak, you pass 1 of 36 tests in average. So that has an effect maybe every 6-10 th game you play.
Not really helping against the autobreak rule of combat lost, fear + outnumbered in 6th.

If there's another, I will have to think of it later. I'd personally also ban Lapping Around.

Yes, I found lapping around more of a nuisance than anything else in 6th. Some relic they fortunately got rid off in 7th, too. So a really good houserule, that is.

The reason I didn't just go with 7th besides the MASSIVE Army book imbalance is that 7th gave use such gems as Undead Crumble on all Swarms, 5 man frontage needed for rank bonus, getting the BSB AND the unit Banner for Resolution, The ability to fight in 2 rounds of combat in 1 combat phase if you manage to hit a combat that hasn't gone yet, the changes to the 8 Lores, and I'm sure there were a few others. When it came down to it, 7th did far more that I didn't like vs. what I did like in it.