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Okay, so i recently had a bout of insanity and finally planned out that mass assult list.

Basically: Play red September off of youtube and let the NKVD eeerrrm i mean enforcers enforce order 227
Whilest the Propaganda Coven makes sure your Mutants will do great in Chargeing and in melee combat.
The two Leman russes are Fire Magnets, and or are hidden out of LOS to destroy enemy tanks.
The two Command Squads follow ofcourse with the banners to improve the general Rate and turn melee Attrition into more attacks.
The 3 Quad Launchers are there finally to remove Speedbumps and or shell a light vehicle into submission.

Battalion
HQ:
Renegade commander, covenant of khorne, an autogun. 25 pts
Rogue Psyker Coven: Smite unnatural vigour 100pts

Elites:
Enforcer 30 pts

Enforcer 30 pts

Enforcer 30 pts

Command Squad 14 Plasmagun Banner of Hate Command Vox 117

Command Squad 14 Plasmagun Banner of Hate Command vox 117

5 Marauders 2x Sniperrifles Stalker 34pts

Troops:
50 Mutants Autoguns/lasguns 200pts

50 Mutants Autoguns/lasguns 200pts

50 Mutants Autoguns/lasguns 200pts

20 Militia: Vox 85pts

20 Militia: Vox 85pts

20 Militia: Vox 85pts


Spearhead
Renegade Commander autogun 25 pts

Elites:
Marauder 5 2x Sniper rifle 34 pts

Heavy Support:

2x1 Leman Russ Battlecannon autocannon 156 x2 = 312pts

1 x 3 Quad Launchers 12 Crewman 291 pts.

total : Excactly 2000 pts.
total Models: 210 Troops. 41 Elites HQ's 7 Tanks 2 Artillery 3 guns 12 crew. Total: 266 INfantry and guns 2 tanks.

 ulfhednir86 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:
Have been following this thread, the R&H discussion is insightful. When I've faced R&H in 8th it's always been fielded along with Daemons / CSM. The most effective combo I've seen is Earthshakers and Bloodthirsters, which made for quite a 1-2 punch.

Possible to change the thread title? R&H is a million times better than Grey Knights.

That is debatable.

Again soup also is not a propper list and such a list will have more daemons then r&h on the field.
And even with soup r&h just have renegade knights and no smashface option unlike grey knights.

But a match between r&h and GK would be like the paralympics, except all participants got additionally crippled/drugged.

im glad this thread has been helpful

I have had a few games recently and found a few facts.
The Valkyrie orgyn and ml alpha assault squad can do alot of damage got bjorn down to1 wound in one turn.
Maficent lords are very good at delaying units.
10 man troops dont need moral management since they die before they need to take moral or lose so few that its cheaper to let them go.
Mauders with sniper rifles and boltgun are awesome as are lascannon or auto cannon diciples/command squads.
Speed bumps are needed as troops dont last long, nurgle deamon allies would be great.
Grey knights are still better than r＆ h solo so more like a speical Olympian vs a rotten tomato and we the tomato.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
ALSO r＆ h can generate alot of cp but not much to spend it on.

Haha... paralympics! Not the answer I was expecting, but a great one.

While I'm certain both sides could go toe-to-toe with how bad certain units are, there's a simple fact that makes GK the worst. GK lack long-range firepower in a meta that heavily favors it, R&H have it in spades. This extends even to smite, the most psychically gifted army in the whole Imperium can't perform as well as the most generic Librarian using a universal ability.

Haha... paralympics! Not the answer I was expecting, but a great one.

While I'm certain both sides could go toe-to-toe with how bad certain units are, there's a simple fact that makes GK the worst. GK lack long-range firepower in a meta that heavily favors it, R&H have it in spades. This extends even to smite, the most psychically gifted army in the whole Imperium can't perform as well as the most generic Librarian using a universal ability.

Wanna see even a worse exemple of such stupidity?
Rubric marines sorcerers.
THE legion of psychik warfare. Our Sergants are great psykers compared to even Space marines ones etc. Can't even manage a proper smite...........

Long range btw? Eldar CSM soup do not base on longrange though. Imperial soup bases itself on Smashcaptains and Knights, and those are also not long range and more a i go first i win style since the output is just plain questionable.

I think it is more a matter of who can throw out the most damage before the other has time to react. Also 3+ and 2+ saves generaly are worth alot less now since literally any weapon that costs some pts (GL for exemple) can weaken it. Compare that to 5+ saves which now are not cardboard boxes anymore since they even grant you survive a autocannon hit on a 6+.

on one hand i like the new system, on the other hand my Berzekers now tend to die to stuff that in the last edition i could ignore 2/3rds of the time....
Still GK and R&H share two problems: No stratagem / terrible stratagems and Terrible troops for their price. In case of R&H on average 25% overpriced i don't know the numbers for GK.

 techsoldaten wrote:

 ulfhednir86 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:
Have been following this thread, the R&H discussion is insightful. When I've faced R&H in 8th it's always been fielded along with Daemons / CSM. The most effective combo I've seen is Earthshakers and Bloodthirsters, which made for quite a 1-2 punch.

Possible to change the thread title? R&H is a million times better than Grey Knights.

That is debatable.

Again soup also is not a propper list and such a list will have more daemons then r&h on the field.
And even with soup r&h just have renegade knights and no smashface option unlike grey knights.

But a match between r&h and GK would be like the paralympics, except all participants got additionally crippled/drugged.

im glad this thread has been helpful

I have had a few games recently and found a few facts.
The Valkyrie orgyn and ml alpha assault squad can do alot of damage got bjorn down to1 wound in one turn.
Maficent lords are very good at delaying units.
10 man troops dont need moral management since they die before they need to take moral or lose so few that its cheaper to let them go.
Mauders with sniper rifles and boltgun are awesome as are lascannon or auto cannon diciples/command squads.
Speed bumps are needed as troops dont last long, nurgle deamon allies would be great.
Grey knights are still better than r＆ h solo so more like a speical Olympian vs a rotten tomato and we the tomato.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
ALSO r＆ h can generate alot of cp but not much to spend it on.

Haha... paralympics! Not the answer I was expecting, but a great one.

While I'm certain both sides could go toe-to-toe with how bad certain units are, there's a simple fact that makes GK the worst. GK lack long-range firepower in a meta that heavily favors it, R&H have it in spades. This extends even to smite, the most psychically gifted army in the whole Imperium can't perform as well as the most generic Librarian using a universal ability.

Dont really need long range firepower if your Good enough at something else. My heretics lost(just) against a space wolf army which only had a twin lascannon and 10 boltguns are the only guns with over 12" range. Also nids.

Here is the army arrayed

The new colour scheme

So recently i made some statisics for my army in various setups, with proxied in units as to see what came out. I also tested some rules and pts cost taken over from the 7th edition IA13 book. Would people be interested in a rewrite?

I belive i found a workable list that is decent enough, altough it is only 1000 pts. Side note, intended it as a Addtional Detachmant for either CSM or Daemons or serve as a standalone force.

Battalion 5Cp
HQ
Renegade commander Autogun, warlord (generic +1ld trait) autogun. Covenant of khorne/ Nurgle/ Tzeentch 25 pts.

Renegade commander Autogun. 25 pts.

Troops:
10 cultists: 40 pts

10 cultists 40 pts

10 cultists 40 pts

Elites
5 Maruaders: Stalkers each with 2 sniperrifles 34 pts.

5 Maruaders: Stalkers each with 2 sniperrifles 34 pts.

5 command Squad autocannon plasma gun 55 pts

5 command Squad autocannon plasma gun 55 pts

Fast Attack

Vehicle Squadron
Salamander Scout tank: Autocannon HB 85 pts

Salamander Scout tank: Autocannon HB 85 pts

2 Chaos Spawn 70 pts

Heavy Support

Vehicle Squadron: Leman russes
Leman russ Battletank Battlecannon HB's 152 pts

Leman Russ Battletank Battlecannon HB's 152 pts

Vehicle Squadron Hydras
Hydra: Heavy Bolter Hydra AA gun 108 pts



Total: 1000pts

Not Online!!! wrote:
So recently i made some statisics for my army in various setups, with proxied in units as to see what came out. I also tested some rules and pts cost taken over from the 7th edition IA13 book. Would people be interested in a rewrite?

I belive i found a workable list that is decent enough, altough it is only 1000 pts. Side note, intended it as a Addtional Detachmant for either CSM or Daemons or serve as a standalone force.

Battalion 5Cp
HQ
Renegade commander Autogun, warlord (generic +1ld trait) autogun. Covenant of khorne/ Nurgle/ Tzeentch 25 pts.

Renegade commander Autogun. 25 pts.

Troops:
10 cultists: 40 pts

10 cultists 40 pts

10 cultists 40 pts

Elites
5 Maruaders: Stalkers each with 2 sniperrifles 34 pts.

5 Maruaders: Stalkers each with 2 sniperrifles 34 pts.

5 command Squad autocannon plasma gun 55 pts

5 command Squad autocannon plasma gun 55 pts

Fast Attack

Vehicle Squadron
Salamander Scout tank: Autocannon HB 85 pts

Salamander Scout tank: Autocannon HB 85 pts

2 Chaos Spawn 70 pts

Heavy Support

Vehicle Squadron: Leman russes
Leman russ Battletank Battlecannon HB's 152 pts

Leman Russ Battletank Battlecannon HB's 152 pts

Vehicle Squadron Hydras
Hydra: Heavy Bolter Hydra AA gun 108 pts



Total: 1000pts

Looks good but does seem to lack anti tank guns.

Well the idea is that with 4 autocannons, two of which gain favourable pre start movement you can dent enough. There is also the Hydra with what equates to another 4 Autocannons and 2 Battlecannons.

AT is anyways done better by CSM or Daemons, and even if this list fights alone it still fields a big ammount of vehicles itself.

Not Online!!! wrote:
Well the idea is that with 4 autocannons, two of which gain favourable pre start movement you can dent enough. There is also the Hydra with what equates to another 4 Autocannons and 2 Battlecannons.

AT is anyways done better by CSM or Daemons, and even if this list fights alone it still fields a big ammount of vehicles itself.

That is true. Let us know how it goes on the TT

What do people use for Maleficent Lord models? Anyone have any Maleficent Ladies?

I'm wondering if they are still worth it after going from 40p to 80p, and thinking about doing some conversions.

I've got the old FW model for my malefic lord. For my.. gak, I cant remember their name, the unit of psykers. I used flagellant bodies, crypt ghoul arms, and gave them skull heads.

 ph34r wrote:
What do people use for Maleficent Lord models? Anyone have any Maleficent Ladies?

I'm wondering if they are still worth it after going from 40p to 80p, and thinking about doing some conversions.

I took a Melee cultist champion, cut off his axe arm and modified him.
The more Martial Look is to represent more of an apostate priest and i run him exclusivley with vigour and creeping terror as to fit him in with my khornate PDF and Traitor guard. Paint job is very much WIP but one of my better pieces. Did i mention i absolutely suck at painting?
Albeit the Traitor guard will get soon here, Anvil be praised.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 gwarsh41 wrote:
I've got the old FW model for my malefic lord. For my.. gak, I cant remember their name, the unit of psykers. I used flagellant bodies, crypt ghoul arms, and gave them skull heads.

Rogue Psyker Coven.

The 5man squad is surprsingly good if you want to run melee. They can nearly guarantee a unatural vigour always. Only problem is that HQ's potentially die to it, fast and enforcer which you WILL need to keep melee squads in line can get insta wiped.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
A Bit off search:
Greyfax could do, ofcouse with propper kitbashing.

Repentias might also do the trick, if you like greenstuff.

So results are in:
1 victory (phyrus would be proud ) 1 loss (jesus i got roffled) and one match that ended in a draw.

The victory was a fight against a SW list. TheyHydra did ofcourse not do particulary well, Leman russes on the other hand rolled very much in my favour. My snipers also were on fire, quite literally in the end, but managed to kill off a Rune priest via mortals. (probably the winning shots aswell) Bawkses were not a problem, enemy smash HQ were one, i suspected i'd lack screens but i got it verfied in that match.

The loss with rofflestomping was a mono knight list, i had to go second and lost 1 leman russ in before t1 and the other one got basically destroyed. My infantry of course was more or less useless against the knights and the hydra aswell. (Basically as expected, you you go second, the knights WILL wipe you except if you massively outnumber them).

The draw was against a saim hann player. the hydra there was a game changer, shooting down biker squads aswell as cheap transports easily. Sadly he managed to kill the thing T3 and afterwards it turned into a slugfest.

Summa Sumarum. Tank R&H can work, but if you end up fighting skew lists like knights you will get wiped, even harder then normally......

Chaos Spawn still are a decent unit, unsurprisngly at 35 pts they are still dirt cheap for a tough enough unit that can threaten enemies.

Salamander scout tanks did what they had to, road blocks aswell as decent AT in favourable positions early. Compared to scout sentinels they also could hold themselves, altough i think in bigger matches you'd need to field waaaaay more to get good results out of them.

The MSU cultists were also more or less what you'd expect, not tough enough to really be a tarpit and not good enough morale to win shootouts. I'll probably go back to my 20 militia man blobs with vox+Sigil for the time, since they tie my enemy better.

Thanks for the report. Good to hear what units worked and what didnt.

Were the salamanders worth it? What units did you use to take objectives most effectively?

Not Online!!! wrote:
So results are in:
1 victory (phyrus would be proud ) 1 loss (jesus i got roffled) and one match that ended in a draw.

The victory was a fight against a SW list. TheyHydra did ofcourse not do particulary well, Leman russes on the other hand rolled very much in my favour. My snipers also were on fire, quite literally in the end, but managed to kill off a Rune priest via mortals. (probably the winning shots aswell) Bawkses were not a problem, enemy smash HQ were one, i suspected i'd lack screens but i got it verfied in that match.

The loss with rofflestomping was a mono knight list, i had to go second and lost 1 leman russ in before t1 and the other one got basically destroyed. My infantry of course was more or less useless against the knights and the hydra aswell. (Basically as expected, you you go second, the knights WILL wipe you except if you massively outnumber them).

The draw was against a saim hann player. the hydra there was a game changer, shooting down biker squads aswell as cheap transports easily. Sadly he managed to kill the thing T3 and afterwards it turned into a slugfest.

Summa Sumarum. Tank R&H can work, but if you end up fighting skew lists like knights you will get wiped, even harder then normally......

Chaos Spawn still are a decent unit, unsurprisngly at 35 pts they are still dirt cheap for a tough enough unit that can threaten enemies.

Salamander scout tanks did what they had to, road blocks aswell as decent AT in favourable positions early. Compared to scout sentinels they also could hold themselves, altough i think in bigger matches you'd need to field waaaaay more to get good results out of them.

The MSU cultists were also more or less what you'd expect, not tough enough to really be a tarpit and not good enough morale to win shootouts. I'll probably go back to my 20 militia man blobs with vox+Sigil for the time, since they tie my enemy better.

The game you went second did you use the new prepared positions stratagem?
If your taking chaos spawn then its easy to get A cheap but effective brigade going.
Snipers really do well for me so far definatly an auto include.
The msu cults worked alot better for me Than vox milita. Losing 10 guys is easy with only a 6+ save and dont lose more to Overkill or moral andcapture more objectives but that could just be me. Although one the enemy gets used to the army things change and they spread out the fire to force more moral checks.
Ive won ive one
2 minor victorys and 1 loss in.The last 2 weeks.
The first win.was against deathwatch and the nurgle 6++ was actually helpful, the snipers made his hqs sit back out of range which meant his front line had no Buffs.
The. Next win was against dark eldar. I. Was getting slaughtered by talos until horticulist joined the fight and murdered and tanked everything. It was slay and secure and he was playing to move onto objectives turn5 but ran out. Of time so it ended turn4.
The loss was against space wolves who ate face.
In each game.my valk. Ogyrns and hqs more than make thier points both in. Damage and. Delaying. The enemy.

 ph34r wrote:
Thanks for the report. Good to hear what units worked and what didnt.

Were the salamanders worth it? What units did you use to take objectives most effectively?

Frankly i focussed on cripling my enemies first. Removing their threats and mobility, whilest simultaneously hiding away my cultists like the little worthless scum they are.

Salamanders are kinda,how to put it, basically like Scout sentinels but with more dakka and the durability of a Chimera. They make good light anti tank duty, are fast, can get a free pre battle movement ergo either can hide outside of los or get into early position.

To take objectives i relied upon a combination of my armor in conjunction of disciples and afterwards rushed the cultists up for ObSec.

Personally i hate to just run so low ammounts of troops and would have prefered my 20 man militia blobs since they can eat alot more fire (bonus pts for the face your enemy IG player makes when they have a 2d6 pick the lowest for a morale check and a ld of 8+)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

The game you went second did you use the new prepared positions stratagem?
If your taking chaos spawn then its easy to get A cheap but effective brigade going.
Snipers really do well for me so far definatly an auto include.
The msu cults worked alot better for me Than vox milita. Losing 10 guys is easy with only a 6+ save and dont lose more to Overkill or moral andcapture more objectives but that could just be me. Although one the enemy gets used to the army things change and they spread out the fire to force more moral checks.
Ive won ive one
2 minor victorys and 1 loss in.The last 2 weeks.
The first win.was against deathwatch and the nurgle 6++ was actually helpful, the snipers made his hqs sit back out of range which meant his front line had no Buffs.
The. Next win was against dark eldar. I. Was getting slaughtered by talos until horticulist joined the fight and murdered and tanked everything. It was slay and secure and he was playing to move onto objectives turn5 but ran out. Of time so it ended turn4.
The loss was against space wolves who ate face.
In each game.my valk. Ogyrns and hqs more than make thier points both in. Damage and. Delaying. The enemy.

I did use it, it won't save your ass though. It was worth the cp certainly though.

I did think about it but i would've needed more troops and heavy support aswell as elites. if I expand the list i'd change it up a bit and then i certainly would run it as a Brigade, especially since my new pet project is coming along.

I did the math, granted i am bad at it but i am fairly certain that militia only begins to profit from vox and sigil when you take over 15 modells. Out of personal experience the 90pts vox sigil 20 militia blob is really good at stoping and delaying, 10 man squads however i feel area pointless since msu Cultist do the same Job but better. (except If you want to spam mortars, which does work, kinda)

Well DE are not really something that you can deal with, the allies need to bail you out there which they did so good for you.

Ogryns Berzerkers + valkyrie = ridicoulus. That said quite alot of my opponents did not bother to shoot down my valkyrie (S) which is nice, especially lategame their gunship Mode can hurt hard if you keep it alive. For fun you could technically ally in a spearhead in a regular csm army and laugh your ass off against gunlines.
Actually that is something i will try sometime.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 ph34r wrote:
Thanks for the report. Good to hear what units worked and what didnt.

Were the salamanders worth it? What units did you use to take objectives most effectively?

Frankly i focussed on cripling my enemies first. Removing their threats and mobility, whilest simultaneously hiding away my cultists like the little worthless scum they are.

Salamanders are kinda,how to put it, basically like Scout sentinels but with more dakka and the durability of a Chimera. They make good light anti tank duty, are fast, can get a free pre battle movement ergo either can hide outside of los or get into early position.

To take objectives i relied upon a combination of my armor in conjunction of disciples and afterwards rushed the cultists up for ObSec.

Personally i hate to just run so low ammounts of troops and would have prefered my 20 man militia blobs since they can eat alot more fire (bonus pts for the face your enemy IG player makes when they have a 2d6 pick the lowest for a morale check and a ld of 8+)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

The game you went second did you use the new prepared positions stratagem?
If your taking chaos spawn then its easy to get A cheap but effective brigade going.
Snipers really do well for me so far definatly an auto include.
The msu cults worked alot better for me Than vox milita. Losing 10 guys is easy with only a 6+ save and dont lose more to Overkill or moral andcapture more objectives but that could just be me. Although one the enemy gets used to the army things change and they spread out the fire to force more moral checks.
Ive won ive one
2 minor victorys and 1 loss in.The last 2 weeks.
The first win.was against deathwatch and the nurgle 6++ was actually helpful, the snipers made his hqs sit back out of range which meant his front line had no Buffs.
The. Next win was against dark eldar. I. Was getting slaughtered by talos until horticulist joined the fight and murdered and tanked everything. It was slay and secure and he was playing to move onto objectives turn5 but ran out. Of time so it ended turn4.
The loss was against space wolves who ate face.
In each game.my valk. Ogyrns and hqs more than make thier points both in. Damage and. Delaying. The enemy.

I did use it, it won't save your ass though. It was worth the cp certainly though.

I did think about it but i would've needed more troops and heavy support aswell as elites. if I expand the list i'd change it up a bit and then i certainly would run it as a Brigade, especially since my new pet project is coming along.

I did the math, granted i am bad at it but i am fairly certain that militia only begins to profit from vox and sigil when you take over 15 modells. Out of personal experience the 90pts vox sigil 20 militia blob is really good at stoping and delaying, 10 man squads however i feel area pointless since msu Cultist do the same Job but better. (except If you want to spam mortars, which does work, kinda)

Well DE are not really something that you can deal with, the allies need to bail you out there which they did so good for you.

Ogryns Berzerkers + valkyrie = ridicoulus. That said quite alot of my opponents did not bother to shoot down my valkyrie (S) which is nice, especially lategame their gunship Mode can hurt hard if you keep it alive. For fun you could technically ally in a spearhead in a regular csm army and laugh your ass off against gunlines.
Actually that is something i will try sometime.

Let us know how it goes

So I've just jumped into this army, thinking of running a low-point mix of infantry and basilisks, with a few psykers thrown in because psykers are cool.
Anyone got any tips?
I'm not really sure what special weapons to run, but I'm leaning towards flamers and plasma.
Same also applies to heavy weapons, and what specific units I should run my infantry models as.
Cheers

 posermcbogus wrote:
So I've just jumped into this army, thinking of running a low-point mix of infantry and basilisks, with a few psykers thrown in because psykers are cool.
Anyone got any tips?
I'm not really sure what special weapons to run, but I'm leaning towards flamers and plasma.
Same also applies to heavy weapons, and what specific units I should run my infantry models as.
Cheers

Well what were you thinking about.
For such terms i can give you 2 base setups, one follows a Mass assult Soviet penal garden noob spam type of playstyle (COH2 reference) (command squads with banners and plasma, aswell as enforcers and ofcourse the 50 man blobs of mutants)
The other would be a more attrition heavy style. Basically you again take command squads, but this time give them Command voxes and field militia squads with voxes and sigils (probably also throw in either heavy stubbers or mortars) in 20 man blocks that form the mainline. Actually they form more along the line of a wall in such a case, with basiliks as damage dealers. I'd reccomend you for such a list to field a Renegade commander with either covenant of tzeentch (because fluff and overwatch on 5+ is hillarious because that's like a regular shooting phase for R&H) or nurgle which makes your 20 man blobs 6++ which all in all not terrible tbh.

Psyker depend on what you want to do. Covens are there to get unatural vigour off consistently (mass assult really profits from it since it allows you to reroll to hit and to wound rolls making the average mutant hit better and wound better then a guardsmen), they do better with big units since they suffer less "relevant losses" malefic lords generally cast smite and warpflux, which is a decent ammount of mortal wounds (drive by chimeras with 2 marauder squads with PG's and 2 malefics were hillarious, it still sometimes works so maybee try it), even against vehicles. Creeping terror is more a side grade, if you want to have a heavy Hammer type of unit like ogryns that need to mop up screens faster.

Alternatively, if you go for a 2000 pts army, just field max Disciples and command squads with maximized marauders. For what it's worth those units actually really are worth their cost and they can basically deal with anything equipped the right way. (you probably want to kit the marauders tho for AT duty and give them either a chimera or valkyre for maximum removal of big stuff.)
HWT's with mortars or stubbers generally also get their pts back, yes heavy stubbers are a HWT option, don't laugh.

you could go for a 750 battalion with 3 basilisks and some infantry and supply a CSM army with CP if you so choose.

 posermcbogus wrote:
So I've just jumped into this army, thinking of running a low-point mix of infantry and basilisks, with a few psykers thrown in because psykers are cool.
Anyone got any tips?
I'm not really sure what special weapons to run, but I'm leaning towards flamers and plasma.
Same also applies to heavy weapons, and what specific units I should run my infantry models as.
Cheers

Welcome to the masochistic socetity for undee powered armies lol.
First peice of advice, listen. To Not online he is the sun tzu of renegade.
Next choose a good ally army, renegades generate lots of cp but dont have much to spend Them on. Deamons are great for this as is csm and renegade knights if you really wanna win.
Also covent of nurgle is very situational, your troops are 6+ saves and only get the 6++ against str4 or less weapons. Its really helps against. Power swords, intercessors and death watch but not Much Else. Covent of khorne is worth considering if your troops are assault or tzench for gunLine.
Maruders with sniper rifles, boltgun and stalker are. An auto include and great for control (a trick i got from not online.).
One trick that works great for me is a Valkyrie droping malficent. Lords with warpflux and ogyrns woth grav chuts for an alpha strike. The ogyrns do great damage as does the lord but the lord can take alot of hits and can really slow down the enemy giving you time. To take the board.
If you use command squads and voxs have the commander with inspiring warlord trait babysit them and his buff will get the vox troops as well.
Command squads and. Diciples for heavy weapons also a. Must.
If you dont. Mind. Losing this army is fun and styles.

Welcome


Automatically Appended Next Post:
also if you run. Troops as. Msu use cultists otherwise take militia with vox

 ph34r wrote:
What do people use for Maleficent Lord models? Anyone have any Maleficent Ladies?

I'm wondering if they are still worth it after going from 40p to 80p, and thinking about doing some conversions.

Waiting on a tentacle tool maker and proper bases to begin their lower halves. I've also since come over all Geoff Wode and pulled the Escher's head off, 'cause I didn't like it.

They're not worth it, FYI.

Ehhh, not worth it is harsh, considering they can dual cast unlike the Coven.
Warpflux is powerfull, and basically a smite against vehicles and a dude that can cast basically two smites is no laughing matter.

But 80 pts is a considerable price and were it not for the rule of three you'd not consider them. (Or Coven for that matter, except in specific builds with a specific purpose, mainly to get Unnatural vigour off. )
Additionally consider that malefics aswell as covens DONT HAVE REGULAR WEAPONS. So you pay for bs stats and ws stats that you can't use.

Tbh i could see them as really usefull at 60ish pts but that is personal opinion and gw hates fw armies atm so don't hope for a fix in the next CA.

Additionally i'd like to add, my opinion mostly relies on experience in my local meta, what works for me does not necessarily work for another meta.
HOWEVER: since the R&H list is so terrible we kinda are forced to bring atleast partially "optimized " lists to stand a fighting chance.

It's probably a reflection of the way I use R&H; to me they're home-objective grabbing CP farms/artillery support for my Slaanesh Daemons.

I still always take at least one, because having more than one Commander is nonsense IMO unless you've got literally hundreds of grunts, but she rarely does anything worthwhile except fill up a mandatory HQ slot.

 Excommunicatus wrote:
It's probably a reflection of the way I use R&H; to me they're home-objective grabbing CP farms/artillery support for my Slaanesh Daemons.

I still always take at least one, because having more than one Commander is nonsense IMO unless you've got literally hundreds of grunts, but she rarely does anything worthwhile except fill up a mandatory HQ slot.

Well i run a khorne Traitor PDF and soon a Khornate Mechanized Traitor guard. So for Fluff reasons i don't pick psykers, often. Problem is when you actually want to make use of the Covenant you need to go shank stuff right? Well the best possible boost to your dudes shanking stuff, or stabbing with bayonetts because no more ammo, is what the Coven offers. (ironically the coven is also one of the best psyker denial units in this game so : HIPP HIPP HURRAY.)

Then again my traitor PDF numbers alone in militia 80 dudes (technically i have another 20 man blob with melee but they are rarely fielded for obvious reasons), another 20 in command squads (ofcourse with glorious red banners cue UdssR anthem) and another 20 in disciples with another 28 in marauders from the miners union (GSC units are great for kitbashing and modifying add in some Admech skitarri helemtets etc and you get really good locking stuff). So i am kinda inclined to field more then 1 commander which are surprisingly good in melee. (no seriously, give them a mace or a energy sword and watch when they intervene and cut up 3-4 times their pts cost, last time i had one cut open a DE archon .)

I find using them with nurgle deamons to be effective as the nurgke deamons can hold them back longer for the bug guns to do more damage. Also if the valk teams survive til turn2(which the ml does well) they can summon deamons enmass with the deamon summon stratagems and banners help charge on the turn they show up. Khorne deamons can do this better tho.
Renegade nights with r&h cp battery could work well competive and look great

My Renegades rarely move, honestly. They're just there for ObSec and CP and artillery (oh my!) and I use Daemons to get choppy.

Also, most of my Renegades don't actually exist yet, outside of a 40K simulator I don't think I'm allowed to mention. The eventual plan is for 125 GEQ at 2k, mostly Militia, with three Leman Russ and four Basilisks.

Oh yeah, and my dudes fight for the Kronstaat IV Worker's Defence Force and are called things like Petrichenko, Komarov and Fetisov.

Soyuz Nerushimyy Respublik svobodnykh...

 Excommunicatus wrote:
My Renegades rarely move, honestly. They're just there for ObSec and CP and artillery (oh my!) and I use Daemons to get choppy.

Also, most of my Renegades don't actually exist yet, outside of a 40K simulator I don't think I'm allowed to mention. The eventual plan is for 125 GEQ at 2k, mostly Militia, with three Leman Russ and four Basilisks.

Oh yeah, and my dudes fight for the Kronstaat IV Worker's Defence Force and are called things like Petrichenko, Komarov and Fetisov.

Soyuz Nerushimyy Respublik svobodnykh...

Oh i generally find that my opponent comes to me, that is the moment were i counter charge, with all i've got. (may or may not be because even my militia blobs have 2 mortars)
Also only 125? those are rookie numbers for a worker uprising!

Even my elite mechanized aerial traitor guard (anvil tm) fields 60 dudes 7 tanks and 2 valkyireis

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Excommunicatus wrote:
My Renegades rarely move, honestly. They're just there for ObSec and CP and artillery (oh my!) and I use Daemons to get choppy.

Also, most of my Renegades don't actually exist yet, outside of a 40K simulator I don't think I'm allowed to mention. The eventual plan is for 125 GEQ at 2k, mostly Militia, with three Leman Russ and four Basilisks.

Oh yeah, and my dudes fight for the Kronstaat IV Worker's Defence Force and are called things like Petrichenko, Komarov and Fetisov.

Soyuz Nerushimyy Respublik svobodnykh...

Oh i generally find that my opponent comes to me, that is the moment were i counter charge, with all i've got. (may or may not be because even my militia blobs have 2 mortars)
Also only 125? those are rookie numbers for a worker uprising!

Even my elite mechanized aerial traitor guard (anvil tm) fields 60 dudes 7 tanks and 2 valkyireis

He did say he had tanks and artillery so that is also a fair amount of bodies. Maybe its a small manufacturium or there was a big fight with management and the rest got killed
My 2k has 3 russes, a valk some ogryns and 100+ bodies including my elites

Im gunna keep messaging gw to get some support or make a PDF so we can use guard with chaos like brood bros and suggest some regimental traits for each god.


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++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Renegades & Heretics) [43 PL, 513pts] ++

+ HQ +

Malefic Lord [4 PL, 80pts]: Creeping Terror, Warp Flux

Renegade Commander [3 PL, 34pts]: Bolt pistol, Power fist

+ Troops +

Renegade Cultists [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Renegade Cultist w/ autopistol and brutal assault weapon
. Renegade Cultist Champion: Autopistol & Brutal assault weapon

Renegade Cultists [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Renegade Cultist w/ Autogun
. Renegade Cultist Champion: Autogun

Renegade Cultists [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Renegade Cultist w/ Autogun
. Renegade Cultist Champion: Autogun

+ Elites +

Renegade Command Squad [3 PL, 42pts]: Krak grenade
. Disciple Weapon Team: Autocannon, 2x Disciple
. 3x Disciple with lasgun

Renegade Command Squad [3 PL, 42pts]: Krak grenade
. Disciple Weapon Team: Autocannon, 2x Disciple
. 3x Disciple with lasgun

Renegade Command Squad [3 PL, 42pts]: Krak grenade
. Disciple Weapon Team: Autocannon, 2x Disciple
. 3x Disciple with lasgun

Renegade Marauder Squad [4 PL, 35pts]: Stalkers
. Marauder Chief: Boltgun
. 2x Marauder With Autogun
. Marauder With Special Weapon: Sniper rifle
. Marauder With Special Weapon: Sniper rifle

Renegade Marauder Squad [4 PL, 35pts]: Stalkers
. Marauder Chief: Boltgun
. 2x Marauder With Autogun
. Marauder With Special Weapon: Sniper rifle
. Marauder With Special Weapon: Sniper rifle

Renegade Marauder Squad [4 PL, 35pts]: Stalkers
. Marauder Chief: Boltgun
. 2x Marauder With Autogun
. Marauder With Special Weapon: Sniper rifle
. Marauder With Special Weapon: Sniper rifle

+ Heavy Support +

Renegade Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 24pts]
. Renegade Weapon Team: Lasgun, Mortar
. Renegade Weapon Team: Autogun, Mortar
. Renegade Weapon Team: Lasgun, Mortar

Renegade Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 24pts]
. Renegade Weapon Team: Lasgun, Mortar
. Renegade Weapon Team: Autogun, Mortar
. Renegade Weapon Team: Lasgun, Mortar

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Renegades & Heretics) [72 PL, 1061pts] ++

+ HQ +

Renegade Commander [3 PL, 30pts]: Laspistol, Power axe

Renegade Commander [3 PL, 25pts]: Brutal Assault weapon, Shotgun

+ Troops +

Renegade Cultists [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Renegade Cultist w/ Autogun
. Renegade Cultist Champion: Autogun

Renegade Cultists [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Renegade Cultist w/ Autogun
. Renegade Cultist Champion: Autogun

Renegade Cultists [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Renegade Cultist w/ Autogun
. Renegade Cultist Champion: Autogun

+ Elites +

Renegade Disciple Squad [3 PL, 50pts]: Krak grenade
. Disciple Champion: Autogun
. Disciple Heavy Weapon Team: 2x Disciple, Lascannon
. 2x Disciple with autogun

Renegade Disciple Squad [3 PL, 50pts]: Krak grenade
. Disciple Champion: Autogun
. Disciple Heavy Weapon Team: 2x Disciple, Lascannon
. 2x Disciple with autogun

Renegade Disciple Squad [3 PL, 50pts]: Krak grenade
. Disciple Champion: Autogun
. Disciple Heavy Weapon Team: 2x Disciple, Lascannon
. 2x Disciple with autogun

Renegade Ogryn Brutes [8 PL, 102pts]
. 2x Brutes: 2x Ogryn Weapon
. Ogryn Berserker Boss: Ogryn Power drill

+ Heavy Support +

Leman Russ Battle Tanks [10 PL, 164pts]
. Leman Russ Battle Tank: Battle Cannon, Lascannon

Leman Russ Battle Tanks [10 PL, 164pts]
. Leman Russ Battle Tank: Battle Cannon, Lascannon

Leman Russ Battle Tanks [10 PL, 164pts]
. Leman Russ Battle Tank: Battle Cannon, Lascannon

+ Flyer +

Valkyries [10 PL, 142pts]
. Valkyrie: 2x Multiple Rocket Pods, Multi-laser

++ Patrol Detachment (Chaos - Daemons) [22 PL, 426pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Chaos Allegiance: Nurgle

+ HQ +

Horticulus Slimux [9 PL, 165pts]: Warlord

+ Troops +

Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Nurgling Swarms

Plaguebearers [4 PL, 95pts]: Daemonic Icon, Instrument of Chaos, 9x Plaguebearer, Plagueridden

+ Fast Attack +

Plague Drones [6 PL, 112pts]: Instrument of Chaos, 2x Plague Drone, Plaguebringer

++ Total: [137 PL, 2000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

Cool! Cheers for the replies! I'm thinking of eventually tying in some Nurgle chaos marine allies - lotsa melta and plasma, keepin it oldschool (and daemons too, one day), and more broadly having nurgle as a theme.

So far I've got about 20 infantry dudes - probably militia and marauders and at this point because they sound alright for a smaller army (I grabbed a bunch of the FW conversion parts when they went on last chance to buy, so...)

For Command squads, what's a reasonable loadout?
Also, special weapons - is plasma alright? I'm slightly concerned by that doo-doo BS.
I've got the parts for a few HWTs, mortars sound nice, I was thinking of maybe heavy bolters, autocannons or lascannons? Is this terrible?

If I have basilisks, do I need much other anti-tank? Will plasma suffice, or should I get melta? I take it that my tank hunters should be marauders in a chimera, that sounds pretty tough, but I was thinking of trying to keep this army as a but more gun-line-y, with any kind of forward stuff coming from my (eventual) chaos marines.


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also super into getting chaos spawn