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Not Online!!! wrote:

 Excommunicatus wrote:
My Renegades rarely move, honestly. They're just there for ObSec and CP and artillery (oh my!) and I use Daemons to get choppy.

Also, most of my Renegades don't actually exist yet, outside of a 40K simulator I don't think I'm allowed to mention. The eventual plan is for 125 GEQ at 2k, mostly Militia, with three Leman Russ and four Basilisks.

Oh yeah, and my dudes fight for the Kronstaat IV Worker's Defence Force and are called things like Petrichenko, Komarov and Fetisov.

Soyuz Nerushimyy Respublik svobodnykh...

Oh i generally find that my opponent comes to me, that is the moment were i counter charge, with all i've got. (may or may not be because even my militia blobs have 2 mortars)
Also only 125? those are rookie numbers for a worker uprising!

Even my elite mechanized aerial traitor guard (anvil tm) fields 60 dudes 7 tanks and 2 valkyireis

I'm a lazy painter and don't have a huge hobby budget so as much as I would dearly love to flood the board with boots on the ground, I simply can't afford to and if I could I probably wouldn't paint them. I'd get overwhelmed and they'd sit in a cupboard, unloved. There's also the fact that I want women to be a significant, rather than token, presence in my force which means I'll have to spend more on Victoria Miniatures' Arcadian parts, doubling the financial cost of a single Militia unit. 10 Standing Female Arcadian Legs and 12 Bald Female Arcadian Heads (that require the use of the empty Cadian helmets) costs more than a Shock Troop box, actually. 32 'soldats' will end up being female, which is slightly more than 26%. I'm not super-happy with that, honestly, even though it's much higher than any almost any currently existing military, but financial realities force compromise.

So yeah, the plan is for 125 GEQ (which includes 18 mortar HWTs), four Basilisks, three Leman Russ, three Sentinels (which will be magnetized per Elmo's tutorial on the BnC so I can run either variant and any weapon). I have further plans to take them up to 3.5k, by adding another two Basilisks, three Leman Russ, three Hydras and thirty Mutant Rabble inside a Crassus, which I'm hoping R&H can actually use by the time I can afford to buy it.

In terms of background, my dudes don't know that they're Heretics yet, but the ball is starting to drop. There's a whole big thing I write abut them in my plog, if you're interested in a long list of pop-culture and historical Soviet references tied together with writing so bad even Black Library would reject it. I drew maps and everything. le sigh. Search 'Kronstaat', if you're a masochist or Dan Brown fan.

tl:dr the workers rise up and ally with Khorne. The K4WDF are already allied with Slaanesh, unknowingly outside of High Command (STAFFKA), and working to summon Zarakynel (The Violet Heart). Carnage ensues that is almost, but not quite, the 'Eastern' Front in space.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Plasma is next to useless outside a Command Squad/Disciples/Marauders, IMO. I stick to Flamers or Grenade Launchers on Militia. Lascannons and Autocannons, again, should probably be in a Command Squad, or put Lascannons on Sentinels. For a HWT, Mortar, Heavy Stubber or Heavy Bolter IMO. Rate of fire somewhat mitigates crappy BS.

@Excommunicatus
Dude i was joking about the numbers, considering i A: suck at painting and B absolutly loathe it sometimes my army is by far not painted. As of yet.

As for background, basically a triumphirate of pissed off personell: Mercenary warlord phyrax (formerly alpha legion, troubles with his Cell leader, executed him and took his merry Band of marines to the fringes and intervened on the side of the angry anti imperial mob on celcus), Grent dollarhyde, (miners Union leader, PDF militia general, mainly fights against the local noble house) and Brigadier Frank ( mechanized and airborne veteran, had a run in with the local admech and nobility, wittnessed corruption and sided with Grent to take over)

Edit :
@posermcbogus
Militia basically has some core principles or rules you can follow imo :
10 man 1 HWT. Basically a meatier Hwt squad with ObSec, works well.
20 man vox sigil. Your above average (if you run command squads) tarpit. In my case dubbed the cannonfodder errm i mean assult squads.
20 vox sigil 2 Hwt's (mortar or stubbber) mainline squad (sometimes you also can add in gl's)

Special weapons: everything in your troop Departement, Either does not want to get them, does not get them (cultists) or wants stuff that requires no aim (militia)
Militia is perfectly fine when equiped with nade launchers ir Hwt 's with stubbers or mortars or flamers.

Chaos spawn is certainly worth It. Great models themselve, make for interesting modification and or selfmade units and on tt are working well.

I know you were only joking, I just have a habit of droning on and on if given the slightest opportunity to do so.

So of the 125 GEQ, I plan on seventy Militia in six Squads, split 15/15/10/10/10/10. Three of the 10s get Heavy Bolter HWTs, Vox-Casters (I do have a Command Squad) and all get a Flamer or Grenade Launcher. They bubble-wrap my tanks. The 15s get two Flamers, Vox-Caster and an Enforcer. They act as my tar-pit screen.

It's worked ok for me in that simulator I mentioned, but can't mention, allowing for how bad R&H as a mono-Faction are.

 Excommunicatus wrote:
I know you were only joking, I just have a habit of droning on and on if given the slightest opportunity to do so.

So of the 125 GEQ, I plan on seventy Militia in six Squads, split 15/15/10/10/10/10. Three of the 10s get Heavy Bolter HWTs, Vox-Casters (I do have a Command Squad) and all get a Flamer or Grenade Launcher. They bubble-wrap my tanks. The 15s get two Flamers, Vox-Caster and an Enforcer. They act as my tar-pit screen.

It's worked ok for me in that simulator I mentioned, but can't mention, allowing for how bad R&H as a mono-Faction are.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I know you were only joking, I just have a habit of droning on and on if given the slightest opportunity to do so.

So of the 125 GEQ, I plan on seventy Militia in six Squads, split 15/15/10/10/10/10. Three of the 10s get Heavy Bolter HWTs, Vox-Casters (I do have a Command Squad) and all get a Flamer or Grenade Launcher. They bubble-wrap my tanks. The 15s get two Flamers, Vox-Caster and an Enforcer. They act as my tar-pit screen.

It's worked ok for me in that simulator I mentioned, but can't mention, allowing for how bad R&H as a mono-Faction are.

In a semi casual meta you can actually pull decently even. That said they require more brains then other factions.

I personally would not go the heavy Bolter Route. Lmg's are cheaper, still can fill the same role and fit the whole desperation theme of r&h.

1 command squad is no command squad, if you intend to boost morale take atleast Minimum absolutly Minimum two.
You always have a chance of getting a double 1 and ld 4 will not help your militia. Also it isn't wasted since you can equip the command squads like disciples anyways.

Secondly 10 man militia squads generally don't get use out of voxes. They die to fast for that. You however just can fold them together so no issue.

Enforcers themselves i only reccomend if you intend to field 30+ men squads. Oh and keep your elites (especially marauders) away from them.

LMG? A Heavy Stubber? I guess I could fairly easily convert Autocannons to represent them.

Yeah, vox-casters aren't optimal on ten-strong squads, but I'm really in it more for the fluff then the crunch, which is why I also only have one Komandir and only one Command Squad.

My Militia survive pretty well usually, because they're almost always behind a horde of much scarier daemons that are charging headlong at the enemy's lines and in front of seven tanks and eighteen Mortars, so they tend to get ignored. For whatever reason, Mortars terrify the people I play against.

When I initially wrote this list I didn't include any Enforcers, but then I got the idea to paint them as NKVD officers, so I wrote them into the list. Again, fluff > crunch for me. I probably won't keep either of them even within 3" of the 15s most of the time, honestly. They'll be close enough to be associated, but not close enough to lose a bunch of models because of a Morale Check I could have easily passed.

I tend not to sweat the minutiae of optimization because I really don't care about tournaments and being competitive. I basically I take the position that so long as I put as many multiples of Six into all my armies as possible, Slaanesh will take care of the rest.

 Excommunicatus wrote:
LMG? A Heavy Stubber? I guess I could fairly easily convert Autocannons to represent them.

Yeah, vox-casters aren't optimal on ten-strong squads, but I'm really in it more for the fluff then the crunch, which is why I also only have one Komandir and only one Command Squad.

My Militia survive pretty well usually, because they're almost always behind a horde of much scarier daemons that are charging headlong at the enemy's lines and in front of seven tanks and eighteen Mortars, so they tend to get ignored. For whatever reason, Mortars terrify the people I play against.

When I initially wrote this list I didn't include any Enforcers, but then I got the idea to paint them as NKVD officers, so I wrote them into the list. Again, fluff > crunch for me. I probably won't keep either of them even within 3" of the 15s most of the time, honestly. They'll be close enough to be associated, but not close enough to lose a bunch of models because of a Morale Check I could have easily passed.

I tend not to sweat the minutiae of optimization because I really don't care about tournaments and being competitive. I basically I take the position that so long as I put as many multiples of Six into all my armies as possible, Slaanesh will take care of the rest.

Well i then say that those 15 man squads need to grow to 18 or the enforcer needs to weed out the weak down to 12.
R&H mortars are about the most terrifiyng mortar unit in existence (so long you don't have -1 shenanigans) because 3 ppm correctly priced militia in conjunction with a Heavy weapon that atm is kinda controversial but comes in 6 man squads instead of three, most certainly can be highly dangerous. (especially for those backfield Glorious 32 that Camp objective.
Well you could always use a reroll for your command squad if you roll gak.
Enforcers with energy maces make a top notch Elite unit Hunter, just a heads up.
Lmg = heavy stubber. I honestly reccomend you to put the ones you get for IG vehicles on a tripod.

Right, you get Stubbers on the accessory sprue.

Great call, thanks.

FWIW, 2x15=30 30/5 = 6.

Yeah, sometimes I cheat a bit. The problem is that the K4WDF aren't technically-speaking a Slaanesh-aligned force (they don't know they're Heretics and they use the CoT for overwatch) so jamming in overt sixes ruins that a bit.

EDIT - 66th post. Eyo vlast velika.

Vrak milita ftw. Gasmasks and trench warfare with expenable human waves.
I personally use big anti tank guns on. The diciples and command sqauds instead of special weapons to make best use of their high bs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If anything id. Use the speicals on. The troops, militia get more of them and they are the expendable ones you want to move up and take points

Have we actually ever considered a pure melee army?

I mean we should have the tools technically:

Slaanesh covenant or khorne.
Rogue Psyker covens for Unnatural vigour.
Enforcers to keep cultists from running.
Gravchute marauders and ogryns for burst damage.
Chaos spawn.
Hell hounds.

I recently did send an E-Mail to the FAQ department:"


Good day.

I would like to bring multiple things you should potentially consider, when you are rebalacing the FW army list, especially the Renegades and Heretics entry of the index. After what ammounts to around 40ish matches after the last CA I still found the WHOLE LIST LACKING in any kind of way balance wise, not to mention various units that got squatted for no apparant reason.

Case in point: Covenants, compared to traits of any other faction that allready has traits: For exemple the Nurgle trait is nigh useless, it is not even a FNP save so can't be combined with their non existent armor. (should really be a 5+ at any weapon not double the T charachteristic of models that profit from it (s6))

Slaanesh or Khorne both suffer from the lack of options for Melee weapons on Mutants, which somehow are still missing, disciples which did not get them and Marauders, which even lack Energy weapons invalidating some units of people which owned a R&H army before 8th edition. Not to mention that the Catachan trait outclasses both of these by miles. I have not really an idea to fix those but i'd like to bring your attention to this.

Tzeentch is fine, kinda, personally too situational, it should also probably ignore negative to hit modifyers from moving with heavy weaponry, like it did in 7th.

Units that need a fix:
Malefic lords, after the whole changes with battlebrothers etc. are not worth 80 pts. I'd either suggest to allow them to cast 2 psychic powers and go down to 60 pts which is still expensive for such a glasscannon or revert them back to primaris psyker levels, because that is what they are, which would be 40 pts.

Rougue Psyker Coven: Need to go down in points and should get a better armor save. I personally estimate that they are worth around 70 pts at the conservative end.

Enforcer and Marauder rule interaction needs a Errata: The rules in question are "in it for the money" and the enforcers morale aura/execution of cowards, because atm it is unclear if you bypass the morale check through the enforcer or if the marauders "In it for the money" solves the morale for them, and then they get shot by the enforcer, a rather bizare interaction i might add.

Marauders lack the Covenant Keyword. There is also no reason to ever pick something else then "Stalker", especially lacking is the "murder Cultists" specialisation which should be reworked.Marauders lost acess to energy weapons for no apparent reason from the transition, invalidating units of players in 7th edition.

Militia: Overpriced by 25%, ironically the Heavy weapon teams as a seperate option are priced correctly at 3 ppm. I would recommend you to increase the stats to IG guardsmen level though, instead of going further down with pts as this will inevitably spawn a race to the bottom. If Milita get's this stat boost the price for Heavy weapon squad teams should also increase of course.

Mutants: Again overpriced by 25%, this time however drop the price pts. Also add in the option to equip a pistol and a brutal assult weapon, which was before missing for whatever reason. (Again also invalidating units that were equipped with melee weapons from the 7th edition)

Both mutants and Militia were compared to conscripts, not even regular guardsmen and found massively lacking. For units that basically are there to represent the rank and file of a list that is centered around it's troops this is questionable at best and outright making the army unplayable at worst.

Actually, where are the plague zombies?

Renegade Cultists: Honestly, they are fine, also if you need to copy and paste a unit, atleast do it correctly, the max size is still only 30 instead of 40. For a unit that is 1 :1 coppied....

Disciples of any flavour aswell as the renegade commanders, lack the option to be upgraded with a 4+ armor save. This again invalidates some units of people that allready owned a R&H army prior to 8th.

Additionally i'd like to add that readding back the old Demagogue devotions would massively help and deepen the R&H army list. (Additionally units got lost because of the removal of the Demagogue option, like renegade grenadiers and big mutants, something that is especially dear to me since it basically invalidated 30 models i kitbashed out of various kits in 7th). This is relevant because atm the list feels more like a bunch off pissed off murder hobos that raided a weapons cache somewhere rather then a Revolution, Traitor Guard regiment, mutant uprising, etc.

Re-add the Renegade infantry veteran, as a troop choice with the same profile and options they had in 7th. At 5 ppm they would be fine. Carapace armour should make them 1 ppm more expensive. This would serve in order to add in variety in playstyle back, aswell as allow to reeimplement the Demagogue options to upgrade them back to grenadiers, another unit that got lost in the transition btw.

Malcadors need to get the same "grinding advance" rule that Leman russes get aswell as an extension to their sponson weapons of said rule. ATM you would never pick a malcador tank of any variety since they are waaaaay too expensive for their capabilites especially considering that you get 2 lemans for the same price in pts.

Castellans need a hike in price pts rather then a change in stratagem price.

This are the points i would like to have addressed in regards to the next CA.
I would also like an answer to this email.

with best regards

Florian Schönbächler"

Not Online!!! wrote:
Have we actually ever considered a pure melee army?

I mean we should have the tools technically:

Slaanesh covenant or khorne.
Rogue Psyker covens for Unnatural vigour.
Enforcers to keep cultists from running.
Gravchute marauders and ogryns for burst damage.
Chaos spawn.
Hell hounds.

I personally haven't, no. Slaanesh Daemons are faster, choppier and have higher Strength with a nearby Herald (which I have six of), while being just as tough as R&H, so I use Slaanesh Daemons to get choppy.

They also have Strategems to make them choppier, which R&H don't. I'd use Bloodletters if I were you.

I imagine that this would be about as competent as R&H gets in a melee focussed army. (that isn't monster spam)

Probably along the line of:
Brigade:

HQ:
Renegade commander: Energy mace, laspistol, Covenant of khorne. 29 pts.

Rogue Psyker coven, unnatural vigour 100pts

Malefic Lord: Warpflux, creeping Terror 80 pts

Troops:
10 Cultists 40 pts

10 Cultists 40 pts

10 Cultists 40 pts

10 Cultists 40 pts

10 Cultists 40 pts

50 mutants 200 pts

Fast Attack:
3 Chaos Spawn 99 pts

3 Chaos Spawn 99 pts

3 Chaos Spawn 99 pts

Heavy Support:
Leman Russ Battlecannon, Heavy bolter 152 pts

Leman Russ Battlecannon, Heavy bolter 152 pts

Leman Russ Battlecannon, heavy bolter 152 pts

Elites:
Enforcer, Brutal assult weapon, Autogun 30 pts

4 Renegade ogryn Berserkers, drill 130 pts

4 Renegade Ogryn berserkes, drill 130 pts

8 Renegade command Squad: Banner of Hate, Shotguns. 64pts

Flyers:
Valkyrie squadron, (2): 284
Valkyries all with Multilaser and double salvopods: 142pts each

Total: 2000 pts.

First Off: Multiples of 8! (8 ogryns, 8 disciples, 8 Charachters with the coven,)

Secondly 50 Cultists probably also with melee weapons or assult guns, probably assult guns though in 5 squads makes them annoying. The 50 man blob ofcourse is there for melee and get's babysitting suport from the Coven aswell as from the enforcer and prehabes the Disciples with the banner.

3 base leman russes, can do decently, i imagine that this has enough bubblewrap around them.

9 Chaos Spawn are something annoying. BTW they have the Chaos Covenant keyword, so they profit from the Covenant whilest they still technically are a beast?!? I mean i'll take it .

2 Valkyries with Ogryn Payload, not much to say on them, other that these can and will destroy stuff if they get close, which they will.


Alternatively, something i will post later, a Carneval of Monsters list, which basically just fields Spawn, Ogryins, Probably with some Cultists which worship their changed fellows.
(Could get really interesting, probably should reread some rules though for such a concept. Additionally there is nothing that would speak against the inclusion of massed Disiples and Co in such an army.)

Not Online!!! wrote:
I imagine that this would be about as competent as R&H gets in a melee focussed army. (that isn't monster spam)

Probably along the line of:
Brigade:

HQ:
Renegade commander: Energy mace, laspistol, Covenant of khorne. 29 pts.

Rogue Psyker coven, unnatural vigour 100pts

Malefic Lord: Warpflux, creeping Terror 80 pts

Troops:
10 Cultists 40 pts

10 Cultists 40 pts

10 Cultists 40 pts

10 Cultists 40 pts

10 Cultists 40 pts

50 mutants 200 pts

Fast Attack:
3 Chaos Spawn 99 pts

3 Chaos Spawn 99 pts

3 Chaos Spawn 99 pts

Heavy Support:
Leman Russ Battlecannon, Heavy bolter 152 pts

Leman Russ Battlecannon, Heavy bolter 152 pts

Leman Russ Battlecannon, heavy bolter 152 pts

Elites:
Enforcer, Brutal assult weapon, Autogun 30 pts

4 Renegade ogryn Berserkers, drill 130 pts

4 Renegade Ogryn berserkes, drill 130 pts

8 Renegade command Squad: Banner of Hate, Shotguns. 64pts

Flyers:
Valkyrie squadron, (2): 284
Valkyries all with Multilaser and double salvopods: 142pts each

Total: 2000 pts.

First Off: Multiples of 8! (8 ogryns, 8 disciples, 8 Charachters with the coven,)

Secondly 50 Cultists probably also with melee weapons or assult guns, probably assult guns though in 5 squads makes them annoying. The 50 man blob ofcourse is there for melee and get's babysitting suport from the Coven aswell as from the enforcer and prehabes the Disciples with the banner.

3 base leman russes, can do decently, i imagine that this has enough bubblewrap around them.

9 Chaos Spawn are something annoying. BTW they have the Chaos Covenant keyword, so they profit from the Covenant whilest they still technically are a beast?!? I mean i'll take it .

2 Valkyries with Ogryn Payload, not much to say on them, other that these can and will destroy stuff if they get close, which they will.


Alternatively, something i will post later, a Carneval of Monsters list, which basically just fields Spawn, Ogryins, Probably with some Cultists which worship their changed fellows.
(Could get really interesting, probably should reread some rules though for such a concept. Additionally there is nothing that would speak against the inclusion of massed Disiples and Co in such an army.)

A great pure list as usual a small detachment of khorne deamons may help Alot or maybe world eaters. Can cultist sergents get power weapons? I forget lol

Who said i would not field any, in my main list i use the free points to summon a squad of bloodletters regularly to fill gaps in my line, actually a fairly good strategy especially if you don't move your HQ.
Also Cultist champions have no access to the champions list of weapons to chose from. Militia get's full acess whilest the Mutant champion only gets a melee weapon.


So i said before i would cook up some insanity: Now here is the Carneval of monsters i promised!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vanguard Detachment 1 CP

HQ:
Renegade commander Energy mace Covenant of khorne 29 pts

Troops:
10 Cultists 40 pts

Elites:
4 Ogryn berserkers Power drill 130 pts

4 Ogryn berserkers Power drill 130 pts

10 Marauders: Shotguns. 2x plasma gun Chief with energy mace, Hereteks (4+armor save) 90 pts

5 Marauders: 2x Sniperrifle Stalkers 34 pts

6 Marauders: 2x Sniperrifle Stalkers 40pts

Flyers
Valkyrie Squadron (3) total 426 pts
Valkyries all equipped with 2 salvopods 1 multilaser : 142

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fast Attack detachment (1 HQ 3 Fast attack ) 1 Cp
HQ:
Reneagade Commander 25 pts

Troops:
10 Cultists 40 pts

Fast attack:
5 Chaos Spawn 165 pts

5 Chaos Spawn 165 pts

5 Chaos Spawn 165 pts

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Spearhead detachment (1 HQ 3 Heavy supports min) 1 Cp
HQ:
Renegade Commander, 25 pts

Troops:
10 Cultists 40 pts

Heavy Support

Leman Russ Battlecannon Heavy Bolter 152 pts

Leman Russ Battlecannon Heavy Bolter 152 pts

Leman Russ Battlecannon Heavy Bolter 152 pts


Ok First off: 15 Chaos spawn. --> for only 495 pts, which profit from the covenant so that means s6 ap-2 attacks with a movement of 7. NOT BAD.

Secondly: Again the same 8 berserkes with power drills in valkyiries: Turn two is gonna sting.

Thirdly Marauder Commander Valkyrie, for when you just need to drop some mercs on faces: In this case Hereteks is the better specialisation.

Fourth: Some obsec Cultist fodder, mainly intended to screen and hold lines: Equipment will be assult rifles, generaly though not much expected.

Fifth: Leman Russes in a Spearhead count as obsec. Yes , even for us. (THANK YOU AM CODEX) I personally think ObSec Leman russes are hillarious

Sixth: anti Chaff is solved via Valkyries, 3 of these flying Leman russes should be able to clear stuff and damage light vehicles. Meanwhile additional Salker snipers will cover the leman russes.

Total 2000 pts. 3 CP through detachments 3 CP through battleforged, ergo 3 Charge rerolls if you feth up. 21 Marauders. 8 berserkers, 30 Cultists 3 leman russes and 3 Valkyries.
Would you win with this list: Depends. On the other hand it probably would give you a fairly uniqe and relativly cheap army to collect, with a lot of charachter.
Still throwing down 8 berserks and 15 spawn is nothing to particulary scoff at and in combination of trusty russes it might actually be a realitvly tough list.

Not Online!!! wrote:
Who said i would not field any, in my main list i use the free points to summon a squad of bloodletters regularly to fill gaps in my line, actually a fairly good strategy especially if you don't move your HQ.
Also Cultist champions have no access to the champions list of weapons to chose from. Militia get's full acess whilest the Mutant champion only gets a melee weapon.


So i said before i would cook up some insanity: Now here is the Carneval of monsters i promised!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vanguard Detachment 1 CP

HQ:
Renegade commander Energy mace Covenant of khorne 29 pts

Troops:
10 Cultists 40 pts

Elites:
4 Ogryn berserkers Power drill 130 pts

4 Ogryn berserkers Power drill 130 pts

10 Marauders: Shotguns. 2x plasma gun Chief with energy mace, Hereteks (4+armor save) 90 pts

5 Marauders: 2x Sniperrifle Stalkers 34 pts

6 Marauders: 2x Sniperrifle Stalkers 40pts

Flyers
Valkyrie Squadron (3) total 426 pts
Valkyries all equipped with 2 salvopods 1 multilaser : 142

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fast Attack detachment (1 HQ 3 Fast attack ) 1 Cp
HQ:
Reneagade Commander 25 pts

Troops:
10 Cultists 40 pts

Fast attack:
5 Chaos Spawn 165 pts

5 Chaos Spawn 165 pts

5 Chaos Spawn 165 pts

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Spearhead detachment (1 HQ 3 Heavy supports min) 1 Cp
HQ:
Renegade Commander, 25 pts

Troops:
10 Cultists 40 pts

Heavy Support

Leman Russ Battlecannon Heavy Bolter 152 pts

Leman Russ Battlecannon Heavy Bolter 152 pts

Leman Russ Battlecannon Heavy Bolter 152 pts


Ok First off: 15 Chaos spawn. --> for only 495 pts, which profit from the covenant so that means s6 ap-2 attacks with a movement of 7. NOT BAD.

Secondly: Again the same 8 berserkes with power drills in valkyiries: Turn two is gonna sting.

Thirdly Marauder Commander Valkyrie, for when you just need to drop some mercs on faces: In this case Hereteks is the better specialisation.

Fourth: Some obsec Cultist fodder, mainly intended to screen and hold lines: Equipment will be assult rifles, generaly though not much expected.

Fifth: Leman Russes in a Spearhead count as obsec. Yes , even for us. (THANK YOU AM CODEX) I personally think ObSec Leman russes are hillarious

Sixth: anti Chaff is solved via Valkyries, 3 of these flying Leman russes should be able to clear stuff and damage light vehicles. Meanwhile additional Salker snipers will cover the leman russes.

Total 2000 pts. 3 CP through detachments 3 CP through battleforged, ergo 3 Charge rerolls if you feth up. 21 Marauders. 8 berserkers, 30 Cultists 3 leman russes and 3 Valkyries.
Would you win with this list: Depends. On the other hand it probably would give you a fairly uniqe and relativly cheap army to collect, with a lot of charachter.
Still throwing down 8 berserks and 15 spawn is nothing to particulary scoff at and in combination of trusty russes it might actually be a realitvly tough list.

Nice air cavalry army
I can see the alpha strike potential really messing up many Armies and atleast delay Them so the rest of the army can move up. The only change i would recommend is combine 2 of the detachments into a battalion. You already got all the units and will give you an extra cp.
I Would seriously Love to see how that list goes.

Do you need any special prerequisites to summon daemons, or is it just have a Chaos Character and some spare points?

 ph34r wrote:
Do you need any special prerequisites to summon daemons, or is it just have a Chaos Character and some spare points?

Only a chaos charachter and spare points. On average you always can summon a base squad of daemons.
Btw you'll find the rule in the csm codex, special note on Chaos charachters.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 ph34r wrote:
Do you need any special prerequisites to summon daemons, or is it just have a Chaos Character and some spare points?

Only a chaos charachter and spare points. On average you always can summon a base squad of daemons.
Btw you'll find the rule in the csm codex, special note on Chaos charachters.

Actually that is a good point.
Would i need to have a detachment Of deamons to get their stratagems or to summon Them?

 ulfhednir86 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 ph34r wrote:
Do you need any special prerequisites to summon daemons, or is it just have a Chaos Character and some spare points?

Only a chaos charachter and spare points. On average you always can summon a base squad of daemons.
Btw you'll find the rule in the csm codex, special note on Chaos charachters.

Actually that is a good point.
Would i need to have a detachment Of deamons to get their stratagems or to summon Them?

Nope just free pts and a Chaos charachter.
F.e.10 bloodletters cost 70 pts, you leave 70 open in your list then you can summon for the spare points.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 ulfhednir86 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 ph34r wrote:
Do you need any special prerequisites to summon daemons, or is it just have a Chaos Character and some spare points?

Only a chaos charachter and spare points. On average you always can summon a base squad of daemons.
Btw you'll find the rule in the csm codex, special note on Chaos charachters.

Actually that is a good point.
Would i need to have a detachment Of deamons to get their stratagems or to summon Them?

Nope just free pts and a Chaos charachter.
F.e.10 bloodletters cost 70 pts, you leave 70 open in your list then you can summon for the spare points.

Awesome that is giving me ideas.
Would still need a detachment for the stratagems tho

Thanks for the pointers fellas, been working away.

So far I've got 14 plain spaghetti dudes, probably militia at this point
3 guys with plasma (how should I run these? Again, feelin' militia, but if this is hella stupid, lemme know)
3 Mortars
2 other heavy weapons (I've assembled most of the autocannon and lascannon, as It stands I'm thinking of just not gluing the gun to the tripod and keeping my options fluid, but basing might make me re-think this)
the vox guy, champion and flag guy from the command squad (again, a bit nervous about choosing a squad composition, given how bad I am at 40k in general)

If anyone has anything to say vis-a-vis Lascannon vs Autocannon, I'm all ears, same as those plasma gunners and the command squad.
I'd also be keen to hear what people think I should do going forward. I'm still in love with the basilisk.
I think I want to try to do the gunline slugfest attrition thing, just to fit my army's theme, is there anything particularly tasty I could throw in, or is it a case of "build a lot of bodies and pray to your preferred chaos deity"?
Again, thanks for your help, and sorry I'm so dumb!

Rule of Thumb in case of Lascannon vs Autocannon.
Lascannons are there as a Heavy Armor counter they are one trick ponys and even more problematic, require high bs: Disciples are required absolutely. Autocannons on the other hand are a decent allrounders and require a tad les BS to use (tanks with autocannons f.e. are a decent option.) I generally recomend to adapt what you need to in your meta. Are knights the flavour of the months get lascannons. generally tho volume of fire is better imo. (personal advise, a mix is a better solution)

3 Mortars are rookie numbers so long you don't throw them into militias (and even then you need more of them). Yes this was not a suggestion , this was a order.

Plasma Guns are like lascannons and other low ROF high impact rate weaponry that is expensive. Disciples and marauders are the most usefull units to carry these.
Militia should , if you ever want to equip them, use nade launchers and flamers.

Basiliks are like the IG ones great options.

Question: What is your armies theme.

Edit: There are no dumb questions, only dumb answers.

Cheers not online - I might make ya re-think that "no dumb questions" bit tho!

I'm hoping to kind of gunline these guys. I want a bit of a ww1 trench warfare/ war fatigue theme, a la "all quiet on the western front".

With disciples/marauders in a gunline setting, what's the best method of delivery? Is it safe to just leave such a high-cost unit hanging out with the chumps? It feels a bit risky to stick them in a chimera.

Will absolutely follow the mortar order - I've fallen in love with the models.

 posermcbogus wrote:
Cheers not online - I might make ya re-think that "no dumb questions" bit tho!

I'm hoping to kind of gunline these guys. I want a bit of a ww1 trench warfare/ war fatigue theme, a la "all quiet on the western front".

With disciples/marauders in a gunline setting, what's the best method of delivery? Is it safe to just leave such a high-cost unit hanging out with the chumps? It feels a bit risky to stick them in a chimera.

Will absolutely follow the mortar order - I've fallen in love with the models.

Depends, disciple aswell as marauders are just 6ppm baseline.
Secondly: disciple and command disciple respectively have a squad size from 5-15 and 4-14 and morale is a non issue, feel free to use them as line infantery.
Thirdly: stalker marauders + cover means a 3+ armor and an always on -1 to hit against them, heck if the terrain is propperly clutered you can let a 10man squad footslog.
(if you want delivery, consider 2x6 marauders with shotguns and Pg in a valkyrie)

Heavy stubbers are a Hwt option for militia and at 4 pts a save option actually to field,just food for thought. (in low pts games, even disciples can make good use out of them)

If you go trench warfare, why not consider 3x 10 command squads with voxes and 20 man militia squads with voxes and either mortars or heavy stubbers? behind them you can hide the basiliks.

Add in a command squad with a banner and maybee buy some fortifications and you should be good to go.

 posermcbogus wrote:
Thanks for the pointers fellas, been working away.

So far I've got 14 plain spaghetti dudes, probably militia at this point
3 guys with plasma (how should I run these? Again, feelin' militia, but if this is hella stupid, lemme know)
3 Mortars
2 other heavy weapons (I've assembled most of the autocannon and lascannon, as It stands I'm thinking of just not gluing the gun to the tripod and keeping my options fluid, but basing might make me re-think this)
the vox guy, champion and flag guy from the command squad (again, a bit nervous about choosing a squad composition, given how bad I am at 40k in general)

If anyone has anything to say vis-a-vis Lascannon vs Autocannon, I'm all ears, same as those plasma gunners and the command squad.
I'd also be keen to hear what people think I should do going forward. I'm still in love with the basilisk.
I think I want to try to do the gunline slugfest attrition thing, just to fit my army's theme, is there anything particularly tasty I could throw in, or is it a case of "build a lot of bodies and pray to your preferred chaos deity"?
Again, thanks for your help, and sorry I'm so dumb!

Also how do you run your troops? Blobs or msu?
But yeah plasmas to The guys that can Shoot aka elites.
I run both auto cannons and lascannons in my army and both are worth it in diciple command squads. If your using vox casters use the comms with heavy weapon command squad to keep em safe

Man you guys are heroes. Thank you!

Are stubbers a must-take kinda deal, like the mortars, or are they just better than most other options? I'm definitely gonna grab some, but how many is good?
Honestly, I wanna try and get some playtesting in, but I guess I like the idea of blob - is blob good?

Probably gonna go with the 2 autocannons with my current open HWT slots (models-wise). Basilisks are surely my anti-armor, right?

 posermcbogus wrote:
Man you guys are heroes. Thank you!

Are stubbers a must-take kinda deal, like the mortars, or are they just better than most other options? I'm definitely gonna grab some, but how many is good?
Honestly, I wanna try and get some playtesting in, but I guess I like the idea of blob - is blob good?

Probably gonna go with the 2 autocannons with my current open HWT slots (models-wise). Basilisks are surely my anti-armor, right?

First off: your welcome.
Secondly: stubbers are either taken when you got pts left over or you want to field militia squads as mainline.
Blobs are units bigger then the 20 militia (cultists f.e or the 50Mutant block) however those need enforcers to keep them in line,keep that in mind.
Basiliks are anti armor. Autocannons i would take for your command squads.
Lascannons for when you face knights.

I would ask a IG player if you could borrow his army and test it as a R&H list.
Personally i would recommend that you partially optimize the lists you make or you go full fluff, since R&H have a tendency to suck so atleast you can have fun creating the list and the modells.

One word of warning tho, winning will be difficult to rare, not because you suck but rather since the list is comparativly weak. Yes we have some aces up our sleves but other armies have whole Decks there.

Anyone else read the rumors of plastic renegades / Chaos human troops in the Blackstone Fortress box? Could that mean good things for us?

 ph34r wrote:
Anyone else read the rumors of plastic renegades / Chaos human troops in the Blackstone Fortress box? Could that mean good things for us?

If it happens, which i doubt, then i personally don't know if I would be happy.

Fw r&h had a lot of options for personalization, unlike the lost and the damned list that Gw produced for the campaign.
I would hope that they stay with the Fw options especially from IA13.

I also rather have a meh codex then f.e.ig which just gets it's glorious 32 for all the knights.
And most importantly i want to be able like i was and am now to represent nearly anything with the list.

I belive however that those human troops are new cultists.
It would be about time now, wouldn't it?

Personally i prefer msu cults with stubbers or naked for more cp, tactical flexibility and attacks while not needing as much moral support.