Emperor officially a Perpetual now?

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**HoundsofDemos**

We do have examples though of tech and abilities that can strip away a perpetual's immortality. It's possible that during his battle with Horus his injuries might not be the type that would heal. Otherwise, he would have been getting better as Dorn dragged him back to earth, not worse.

**Crimson**

Umm, the Astronomican has nothing to do with daemons directly, it is just difficult to navigate without it. It going down for a couple of days would not be a big deal at all (Unless you happen to be in the warp at the moment, then it might be a tad distressing.)

**Midnightdeathblade**

Crimson wrote:
Umm, the Astronomican has nothing to do with daemons directly, it is just difficult to navigate without it. It going down for a couple of days would not be a big deal at all (Unless you happen to be in the warp at the moment, then it might be a tad distressing.)

If the golden throne fails, and the emp is dead, Terra would be instantly overrun. And ships traveling in the warp would be lost and invaded.

**insaniak**

Midnightdeathblade wrote:
So now he is confirmed a Perpetual, ...

Except he's not confirmed a Perpetual.

But even if he was, we've had no evidence that Guilliman is aware of this. So calling him an idiot for not including it in his planning is probably a little extreme...

**Crimson**

Midnightdeathblade wrote:
Crimson wrote:
Umm, the Astronomican has nothing to do with daemons directly, it is just difficult to navigate without it. It going down for a couple of days would not be a big deal at all (Unless you happen to be in the warp at the moment, then it might be a tad distressing.)

If the golden throne fails, and the emp is dead, Terra would be instantly overrun. And ships traveling in the warp would be lost and invaded.

Oh sure, but that's the Throne not Astronomican. Would be an issue, sure.

Of course the whole Throne being a failed webway portal thing is never even mentioned in the studio fluff...

**BrianDavion**

-removed by insaniak-

**Slipspace**

Midnightdeathblade wrote:
Crimson wrote:
Umm, the Astronomican has nothing to do with daemons directly, it is just difficult to navigate without it. It going down for a couple of days would not be a big deal at all (Unless you happen to be in the warp at the moment, then it might be a tad distressing.)

If the golden throne fails, and the emp is dead, Terra would be instantly overrun. And ships traveling in the warp would be lost and invaded.

Ships travelling in the warp wouldn't be overrun with Daemons. The Astronomicon is just a beacon they use to navigate, it doesn't protect the ships themselves from Daemons - that's Geller fields. Assuming there hasn't been a change or update to the fluff since Master of Mankind, you would be looking at a fairly serious Daemon invasion of Terra, though, as the Golden Throne is used to seal the entrance to the Webway, which is now infested with Daemons (nice going Magnus!)

**Andykp**

I find more and more I agree with everything crimson says. Perpetuals and the emperor being one is dumbing down of the story to pointless levels. And it keeps getting worse. The sooner BL stop with the HH stuff the better.

**insaniak**

The BL hasn't said the Emperor is a Perpetual.

**Deathwatch101**

The concept of the Emperor dying and being reborn is not a new one. Its been around since at least the Inquisitor 54mm game, as it forms the basis of belief for one of the factions of the Inquisition. (Cant recall which one!)
Its also been strongly hinted in the HH novel series (which has been incredibly well received and i don't feel 'dumbs down' the background - though sometimes aspects of the stories in the novels are over simplified for the purposes of forum debates.Plus never forget the concept of 'Unreliable Narrator which is rife in the Heresy stories. They are all true from the point of view of the characters telling the story, but that doesn't make them 'true'!) that the Emperor is a Perpetual - and this is one of his aspects/traits that is passed to Vulkan. Of course, 'killing' him in order to allow him to resurrect, is an interesting prospect beyond what might happen with the Astronomican and Golden Throne. Vulkan went more than a little crazy after all his deaths at the hands of Curze, so who knows what the mental state of the Emperor is/would be after 10,000 years on the Throne and waking to see what has happened to humanity!
He might be best left where he is.......

**Crimson**

The idea of Emperor resurrecting has been inn the fluff since Rogue Trader, it is the Starchild theory. But that is not about bodily resurrection, it is a theory that should the Emperor's body perish, he would be freed and be reborn as a pure warp entity. Some Inquisitors believed this. Others (most of them) didn't, and assumed that killing the Emperor's physical body would just end him for good. This is one of those things that absolutely must not have one 'correct' answer or the plot point is ruined.

**Duskweaver**

Crimson wrote:Oh right, I forgot the perpetuals were not merely unaging, but also unkillable... Jesus Christ, this is concept is such poison!

Being ageless without also being nigh-unkillable is a bit pointless. Because of how probability works, you'd be lucky to survive more than a few centuries without dying from some dumb accident. If perpetuals were just[i] unaging, you'd not expect an individual perpetual to stick around any longer than a rejuvenat-treated human.

Midnightdeathblade wrote:If you kill the Emperor, he will 100% revive.

The Emperor being a perpetual does not guarantee he'd come back if killed. We don't yet know what Horus (or potentially [i]somebody else...) actually did to him at the end of the HH. Maybe he got stabbed with a bit of fulgurite or something so that, if he dies, he's gone for good. AFAIK, the fluff still states that it was the Emperor's idea to be installed in the Golden Throne, so he presumably knew that he wouldn't just respawn otherwise. Or at least knew not to rely on that.

While the Astronomicon is down, Terra and hundreds of planets and traveling starships would be flooded with Daemons almost instantaneously.

Why would the Astronomican going down cause universal Geller field failure?

Now lets say, being a super intelligent Primarch Demi-God and best buds with the literal Eisenstein of the 40k universe (CAWL) instead of destroying this insanely powerful device, you might instead try to learn its function and possibly replicate it.

Because attempting to use and/or replicate ancient alien technology always works out so well in 40K!

EDIT: Is there something wrong with the forum software today? There's a whole page of 'new' posts above mine that didn't appear to be there before I hit 'Submit'. I've also seen a couple of posts in other threads that were clearly showing up in the wrong thread (although that could have been user error).

**pm713**

Crimson wrote:
Umm, the Astronomican has nothing to do with daemons directly, it is just difficult to navigate without it. It going down for a couple of days would not be a big deal at all (Unless you happen to be in the warp at the moment, then it might be a tad distressing.)

If you think losing instantly losing all supplies everywhere isn't a big deal then I don't know what to tell you.

**locarno24**

Deathwatch101 wrote:
The concept of the Emperor dying and being reborn is not a new one. Its been around since at least the Inquisitor 54mm game, as it forms the basis of belief for one of the factions of the Inquisition. (Cant recall which one!)
Its also been strongly hinted in the HH novel series (which has been incredibly well received and i don't feel 'dumbs down' the background - though sometimes aspects of the stories in the novels are over simplified for the purposes of forum debates.Plus never forget the concept of 'Unreliable Narrator which is rife in the Heresy stories. They are all true from the point of view of the characters telling the story, but that doesn't make them 'true'!) that the Emperor is a Perpetual - and this is one of his aspects/traits that is passed to Vulkan. Of course, 'killing' him in order to allow him to resurrect, is an interesting prospect beyond what might happen with the Astronomican and Golden Throne. Vulkan went more than a little crazy after all his deaths at the hands of Curze, so who knows what the mental state of the Emperor is/would be after 10,000 years on the Throne and waking to see what has happened to humanity!
He might be best left where he is.......

Resurrectionists - rather unsurprisingly. Later changing to the Thorians post Age of Apostasy.

Also - from the inside cover of the Inquisitor rulebook:

A single candle guttered on an ornate silver stick in the centre of the room, throwing a yellowish, fitful light over the faces of the cowled figures stood in the dusty chamber. “The Golden Throne works,” one said, his voice aged and cracked. “The Emperor’s life can be sustained indefinitely.” “His soul lives on?” another inquired, his long, sharp nose protruding from under the lip of his hood. “It is not an empty husk?” “It is not,” the first confirmed. “The Emperor has ascended to the next plane, but the link ’twixt body and spirit remains strong.” “Then it can be brought back,” suggested the third, a young woman whose flowing white hair spilled from her hood and down to her waist. “The Emperor need not suffer this hideous eternal life in death.” “We cannot risk such a thing!” the first hissed. “What if the spiritual link were severed? What if the person brought back was not the man we once knew? Changed? News of the Emperor’s… ascension is already widespread. He is being revered as a god already on a hundred worlds. In this time of rebuilding, we need a symbol. The Emperor has shown us the way. Anyway, who would believe the Emperor had returned so soon? It will cause a civil war more devastating than that of the fool Horus, and even now we have yet to start counting the cost of that. No, better that this knowledge remains hidden. When we pass on to join the Emperor, it will die with us.” “You cannot deny Mankind the Emperor,” a fourth voice, deep and slow, stated firmly. “He and the empire he has built are Mankind’s only chance of survival.” The woman and the deep-voiced man both withdrew into the shadows and a moment later the door creaked open, a chill draught causing the candle flame to flit wildly. “Moriana, Promeus, wait!” the first man called out, but the door slammed shut in answer. “We cannot let them do this,” the hawk nosed man decided. “No, we cannot,” the first agreed. “We must act quickly, get organised and claim the initiative.” “It shall be done,” the other concurred.

The conversation still works well with the idea that they might know (or suspect) the whole perpetual thing.