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 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
For the OP, avoid primaris stuff. They suck and they're also awful miniatures

I actually think the miniatures are great, it's just the rules (in 8th edition being 2 wounds actually reduces your durability) aren't that great.

Its also the fluff.
Primaris dont fit for SW and DA. Hands down.

 wuestenfux wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
For the OP, avoid primaris stuff. They suck and they're also awful miniatures

I actually think the miniatures are great, it's just the rules (in 8th edition being 2 wounds actually reduces your durability) aren't that great.

Its also the fluff.
Primaris dont fit for SW and DA. Hands down.

Depends what you mean by don't fit. I'm a Dark Angels player and I'm happy with how it's been handled. It causes issues for the chapter absolutely, but I enjoy that tension in the fluff.

Also I agree with BCB that the minis are great. The rules quality varies by unit, but Hellblasters specifically are pretty darn good (especially in Dark Angels with their built in re-roll and Plasma stratagem!)

 Blackie wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Silver144 wrote:
They have diffetent roles. Hellblasters shoot plasma, the long fangs most likely will be equipped with lascannons and single heavy bolter for MV strategem. Also long fangs got the access to couple bolterguys for meatshield. Try this: 6 man unit, 3 lascannons, 1 heavy bolter, bolterguy, serg. Also you better pick hellblasters in deathwatch detach, they will be in troop slot and will have sinergy with intercessor meatshield (with special ammunition), and also the DW chapter tactic usefull for hellblasters, unlike space wolves one.

You don't get a Bolter guy.

The sargent can't take heavy weapons so it's the bolter guy. Furthemore any Long Fang in the unit CAN take an heavy weapon, you can have several bolter guys actually. Two of them are quite mandatory. Never mix up the heavy weapons or you'll lose the re-roll of 1s. Go full lascannons, full heavy bolters, full missile launchers or plasma cannons, never mix the Long Fangs' loadout.

For the OP, avoid primaris stuff. They suck and they're also awful miniatures

I'm pretty sure they're forced into it, and no Primaris aren't terrible for rules, and are mostly just mediocre.

They're also NOT bad models. Yeah I don't like anything besides Mk3-5, but honestly anyone claiming they're bad hasn't actually worked with them once. Not once.

Quoting from the SW codex:

"The unit contains one Long Fangs Pack leader and 4 Long Fangs. It can include 1 additional Long Fang".

"The Long Fangs and the Long Fang Pack Leader are each armed with a boltgun, bolt pistol, frag grenades and krak grenades. The Long Fang Pack Leader is also armed with a chainsword".

"Any Long Fang may replace his boltgun with an item from the Heavy Weapon list".

All the dudes in the Long Fang squad can be bolter guys

Yeah man, check the codex when two guys at once point a mistake in your words. And there is good reason to mix weapons if we speak about single heavy bolter. It is one more cheaper wound in squad to die first, and the source of affordable mortal wound. And you DON'T have to shoot all guns in one unit to gain reroll of 1s, you pick one enemy unit against which you will receive this reroll. So your lascannons will have their rerolls, while your heavy bolter could make some mv or shots elsewhere.


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And the main problem with hellblasters - there is simply ZERO reason to take them as space wolves. They do not have strategems, combos and even SW chapter tactic do not work with them. Every time you want to take them - death watch (maaaaybe dark angels), or you handicap yourself.

Silver144 wrote:
Yeah man, check the codex when two guys at once point a mistake in your words. And there is good reason to mix weapons if we speak about single heavy bolter. It is one more cheaper wound in squad to die first, and the source of affordable mortal wound. And you DON'T have to shoot all guns in one unit to gain reroll of 1s, you pick one enemy unit against which you will receive this reroll. So your lascannons will have their rerolls, while your heavy bolter could make some mv or shots elsewhere.


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And the main problem with hellblasters - there is simply ZERO reason to take them as space wolves. They do not have strategems, combos and even SW chapter tactic do not work with them. Every time you want to take them - death watch (maaaaybe dark angels), or you handicap yourself.

The one point I would question is that yes, Hellblasters are not seen in tournaments. That does not mean they are terrible. I would say they are a mid tier unit for marines. That is to say if you like them you aren't hamstringing yourself by taking them. They can do good work.

So I would say there is a reason to take them, if you like them. Which obviously always applies, but some units (say Centurion Devs) I would seriously urge caution about, where as I think Hellblasters are fine.

I didn't say hellblasters are terrible. And I didn't say a single word about tournament.

All I said - if you want to take hellblasters - you should take them as deathwatch or dark angels, because they do not gain any benefit from being <space wolves>, but benefit greatly from being <death watch>.

Silver144 wrote:
I didn't say hellblasters are terrible. And I didn't say a single word about tournament.

All I said - if you want to take hellblasters - you should take them as deathwatch or dark angels, because they do not gain any benefit from being <space wolves>, but benefit greatly from being <death watch>.

I felt it was implied, in virtue of you essentially saying never take them in SW. Which I disagree with.

I honestly would take a long fangs squad 4x heavy weapons and an ancient with cheap weapons and a wolf guard pack leader with termie and a storm shield (i wouldn't give him a cyclone, just use him as the buffer/take hits guy).

The reason I wold take them is cause I don't like primarius and I don't support them, but I think if go long fangs is fluffy, has a lot of options and can change/dedicate the unit how want.

Again, I said " there is no reason to take them as <space wolf>, because they do not benefit from space wolves chapter tactic. But you can take them as <Death watch>, so they will benefit from this chapter a lot. "
With the same model you could increase it's usability greatly. I see no reason to not go that way.

I'll say it hellblasters are terrible, primaris are terrible and don't fit with wolves lore wise.

I don't think primaris fit with lore anywhere (it is so badly written and was so obvious to try to make money), anyway not to derail, I vote long fangs are so much better and versatile

Silver144 wrote:
Again, I said " there is no reason to take them as <space wolf>, because they do not benefit from space wolves chapter tactic. But you can take them as <Death watch>, so they will benefit from this chapter a lot. "
With the same model you could increase it's usability greatly. I see no reason to not go that way.

Right, but a lot of people want to stick to one faction for thematic reasons. If someone says they're playing SWs I don't really see 'take some Deathwatch' as a particularly helpful response.

 Stux wrote:

Silver144 wrote:
Again, I said " there is no reason to take them as <space wolf>, because they do not benefit from space wolves chapter tactic. But you can take them as <Death watch>, so they will benefit from this chapter a lot. "
With the same model you could increase it's usability greatly. I see no reason to not go that way.

Right, but a lot of people want to stick to one faction for thematic reasons. If someone says they're playing SWs I don't really see 'take some Deathwatch' as a particularly helpful response.

Well, the sad reality is - we live in the age of soup.

Silver144 wrote:

 Stux wrote:

Silver144 wrote:
Again, I said " there is no reason to take them as <space wolf>, because they do not benefit from space wolves chapter tactic. But you can take them as <Death watch>, so they will benefit from this chapter a lot. "
With the same model you could increase it's usability greatly. I see no reason to not go that way.

Right, but a lot of people want to stick to one faction for thematic reasons. If someone says they're playing SWs I don't really see 'take some Deathwatch' as a particularly helpful response.

Well, the sad reality is - we live in the age of soup.

In your reality... a lot of us play games for fun (My main is DW and tbh, play the pure SW don't give in to some sad spam).

Just paint your hellblasters in SW colors and use death watch rules until gw fix the problem.

hobojebus wrote:
I'll say it hellblasters are terrible, primaris are terrible and don't fit with wolves lore wise.

Not to be a negative nancy, but in the lore the Space Wolves have accepted the Primaris as being worthy due to their performance in battle, and considering the tag team duo of Magnus and the Grey Knights wiped out 99% of the Fenrisian population, the Space Wolves are already a dead chapter walking. They can't replace their losses from native fenrisians, the closest they could get would be the void-ship serf population, which is nowhere near the same thing and I'd not be surprised if they had genetically drifted too much anyway. Space Wolves either accept the Primaris and slowly hope they can rebuild their native Fenrisian population, or they become Primaris only and cease to be Space Wolves in anything but name.

According to lore if now or in 6months, every SM chapter is developing Primaris (if not how do they sell...)


Honestly though if have a re-roll 1 guy sitting with helblasters all the time (and consider the points investment, go helblasters), I just find Long fangs good cause no support needed and get support in a termie/storm shield to absorb damage added.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

hobojebus wrote:
I'll say it hellblasters are terrible, primaris are terrible and don't fit with wolves lore wise.

Not to be a negative nancy, but in the lore the Space Wolves have accepted the Primaris as being worthy due to their performance in battle, and considering the tag team duo of Magnus and the Grey Knights wiped out 99% of the Fenrisian population, the Space Wolves are already a dead chapter walking. They can't replace their losses from native fenrisians, the closest they could get would be the void-ship serf population, which is nowhere near the same thing and I'd not be surprised if they had genetically drifted too much anyway. Space Wolves either accept the Primaris and slowly hope they can rebuild their native Fenrisian population, or they become Primaris only and cease to be Space Wolves in anything but name.

So much wrong here.

First the stormcaller just returned from Prospero with 13 th company heresy era marines their numbers are further boosted by heresy era tanks meaning they are probably stronger now than they've been for centuries.

Further more ashes of prospero makes it very clear they are not trusted by the great wolf and kept at arms length, of all the chapters it would be wolves that would turn primaris down they are staunch traditionalists, the fact the codex largely skipped over their acceptance shows gw was just stuffing them in hoping they'd sell.

You can't import people to fenris they won't have the canis helix and will freeze to death in minutes of landing, and As the wolf brothers showed no helix no successful space marine.

99% wiped out is stated no where, sure numbers were hit hard but given there's no other world out there to recruit from even the writers wouldn't wipe out the fenrisian population to that extent.

I mean what units from the codex are also not fluffy(apart from primaris marines) I kinda wanna stick go lore friendly units.

 Alphabet wrote:
I mean what units from the codex are also not fluffy(apart from primaris marines) I kinda wanna stick go lore friendly units.

I mean a unit of long fangs (the grizzled veterans of the past) with a super old guy tanking the hits... how much more lore do you get (just give him a beard and some mead and a tale to tell)



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Lore from ages ago when I actually collect space wolves...space vikings



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Alphabet wrote:
I mean what units from the codex are also not fluffy(apart from primaris marines) I kinda wanna stick go lore friendly units.

I haven't bought the new codex...primarius....fluffy, that's an oxymoron if ever heard one... must be sales

 Alphabet wrote:
I mean what units from the codex are also not fluffy(apart from primaris marines) I kinda wanna stick go lore friendly units.

When people are saying that Primaris are not fluffy, they're saying that they don't like how they've been added into the fluff or they don't look particularly woolfy.

The fact is that in official canon now Space Wolves use Primaris. So it's totally lore friendly to do so. If you simply don't like that aspect of the lore then that's fine of course! You can also convert Primaris easily with head swaps etc to make them much more woolfy!

 Stux wrote:

 Alphabet wrote:
I mean what units from the codex are also not fluffy(apart from primaris marines) I kinda wanna stick go lore friendly units.

When people are saying that Primaris are not fluffy, they're saying that they don't like how they've been added into the fluff or they don't look particularly woolfy.

The fact is that in official canon now Space Wolves use Primaris. So it's totally lore friendly to do so. If you simply don't like that aspect of the lore then that's fine of course! You can also convert Primaris easily with head swaps etc to make them much more woolfy!

I must say if I was playing space wolves again, I would go out of my way to convert everything up non primarius. Just cause a viking (no other explanation needed)

Do Space Wolf Primaris Rune Priests use Magic or Runes?



Too soon?

Reemule wrote:
Do Space Wolf Primaris Rune Priests use Magic or Runes?



Too soon?

It's all just manipulating the warp with different names

Reemule wrote:
Do Space Wolf Primaris Rune Priests use Magic or Runes?



Too soon?

Too often.
Space Wolves have sort of kind of accepted the Librarius through Njal Stormcaller who is the head Rune Priest. He is a scholar who dabbles in just about every discipline and has good knowledge in Navi, Chaplain, Apocathary, Librarius and Tech disciplines.
Truth be told he’s almost as bad as Magnus in his studies.

To quote The Emperor: "THE SPACE WOLVES ARE QUICKLY REVEALED TO BE GAK-MASTERS SUPREME BECAUSE THOSE ARE NOT FRIENDLY WOLF SPIRITS OF FENRIS LIKE THEY HAVE BEEN INSISTING ON FOR THE PAST 10 MILLENNIA THOSE ARE FETHING DAEMONS."

The best way to think about the warp, and harnessing its power, is like magic in mage the ascension. You can do all kinds of cool stuff, but there are serious consequences. Whereas if you use magic responsibly in ways that can be reconciled and make sense, nobody gets hurt.

Anyway.

Hellblasters can be outflanked by Space Wolves. Which means you can drop them in, overcharge, and shoot the crap out of something.

Long fangs are an option because of innate reroll 1s, but also because their stratagems are quite good. Ignoring hit penalties, as well as rerolling all wounds. Let's also not forget that if a rune priest is nearby, should someone attempt to deep strike you can also light it up with your long fangs.

I would say, in general, that space wolves would struggle against flyer heavy lists. Long fangs provide you some answer there.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
To quote The Emperor: "THE SPACE WOLVES ARE QUICKLY REVEALED TO BE GAK-MASTERS SUPREME BECAUSE THOSE ARE NOT FRIENDLY WOLF SPIRITS OF FENRIS LIKE THEY HAVE BEEN INSISTING ON FOR THE PAST 10 MILLENNIA THOSE ARE FETHING DAEMONS."

For an Emperor quote that sounds awfully Ork-ish, you sure it’s a quote and not paraphrase?

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
To quote The Emperor: "THE SPACE WOLVES ARE QUICKLY REVEALED TO BE GAK-MASTERS SUPREME BECAUSE THOSE ARE NOT FRIENDLY WOLF SPIRITS OF FENRIS LIKE THEY HAVE BEEN INSISTING ON FOR THE PAST 10 MILLENNIA THOSE ARE FETHING DAEMONS."

For an Emperor quote that sounds awfully Ork-ish, you sure it’s a quote and not paraphrase?

In case you're not playing a bit: It's from "If the Emperor had a Text To Speech Device", a hilarious Webshow about what would happen if the Golden Throne was installed with the magical technology of M2

To get back on topic: Long Fangs supported by a Wolf Priest are good. Hellblasters outflanking is good. It's down to personal preference.