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lolman1c wrote: grot shields still works in cc right? I feel like charging 30 grots into a line then charging boyz in after then having the grots just absorb all the attacks. XD
Pretty sure no RANGED WEAPON is used ever in fight phase. And since you can only trigger strategem when you are hit by RANGED WEAPON...Now I suppose if somehow you do happen to be hit by RANGED WEAPON in fight phase and orks are at least bit further than grots that would be legal....Though I would consider that exploiting to use it for non-ranged weapon in fight phase just because some weird ranged weapon shot at first...Still. Don't think there's any ranged weapon that can be fired in fight phase and since strategem is triggered by being hit by ranged weapon and lasts only through that phase don't think that is possible.
I wasn't exploiting it... I just missed the ranged weapon part and thought it worked on all weapons... no need to be a douche.
lolman1c wrote: grot shields still works in cc right? I feel like charging 30 grots into a line then charging boyz in after then having the grots just absorb all the attacks. XD
Pretty sure no RANGED WEAPON is used ever in fight phase. And since you can only trigger strategem when you are hit by RANGED WEAPON...Now I suppose if somehow you do happen to be hit by RANGED WEAPON in fight phase and orks are at least bit further than grots that would be legal....Though I would consider that exploiting to use it for non-ranged weapon in fight phase just because some weird ranged weapon shot at first...Still. Don't think there's any ranged weapon that can be fired in fight phase and since strategem is triggered by being hit by ranged weapon and lasts only through that phase don't think that is possible.
Ah, but can you use Grot Shields against overwatch? It doesn't say that it has to be in the shooting phase, just that it has to be a ranged weapon. So you put a unit of grots in front of but of a little out of way of the boyz so they aren't in the way, and declare a charge.
Your opponent declares overwatch. If you take hits you activate grot shields and transfer the hits to the grots.
Now, against most armies its not that useful, but against Tau? Sounds like a good way to avoid their mass overwatch rule.
That's good point. As it doesn't say anything about SHOOTING phase, only ranged weapon, you can indeed use it during charge phase and thus use it to avoid overwatch casualties. Albeit getting grots closer to enemy than orks can be bit hard. For example with deep striking you need to make sure you deploy bit further back than usual and of course need to deep strike grots as well.
Could be worth it sometimes to put in some grots to tellyporta with big nob or meganob squad. 0.5" behind for example wouldn't change odds of making charge but would give overwatch protection...
...Especially with 30 strong squad and valiant knight and it's automatic hitting multi damage flamer...
Yarium wrote: Only one I'm not happy about was the Goff Gorkanaut having to use the same profile for bonus attacks. No idea why this is when Morty does the same thing but is allowed to switch profiles.
It's because they're not the same.
DttFE generates attacks, which need a weapon profile to be selected.
DDD generates hits made by the weapon that did it.
Yarium wrote: Only one I'm not happy about was the Goff Gorkanaut having to use the same profile for bonus attacks. No idea why this is when Morty does the same thing but is allowed to switch profiles.
It's because they're not the same.
DttFE generates attacks, which need a weapon profile to be selected.
DDD generates hits made by the weapon that did it.
3. Megatrakk Scrapjets big shootas now hit on 4 (wut?)
I think they only intend this to be the rear big shootas as there is an actual Grot gunner operating that one.
But they haven't made this 100% clear.
yeah, I'm just going to fire the 12 shots at BS 4+ because this is confusing... also I don;t even own a skrapjet so it's also confusing why i would say that.
IIRC from the 2nd or 3rd edition codex, Goff clan boyz wont let Gretchin wear the color black since they're too weedy, so I wasnt very surprised to see gretchin left out of Kultures.
Nightlord1987 wrote: IIRC from the 2nd or 3rd edition codex, Goff clan boyz wont let Gretchin wear the color black since they're too weedy, so I wasnt very surprised to see gretchin left out of Kultures.
yeah but if you read later stuff it changes. Hahahahaa....
Here is a chapter about gretchin written by the Ork experts
Spoiler:
Chapter 12: Gretchin: Slave, Servant, and Societal Necessity
“Gretchin are more numerous than Orks, but the Orks are greatly dependent on them regardless of the size difference between the two races (though no Ork would openly admit this). Orks are lazy and forgetful, and organisation is not their strong point. Only the preparation for war and the excitement of battle really bring out the Orks’ innate talents. Most of the day-to-day running of Ork society – finding and preparing food, taking messages, handling information, fetching and carrying things, organising belongings and so on are left to the Gretchin.”
(Waaargh The Orks, pg.50)
In the previous chapter, I discussed the importance of Snotlings, which is mostly a biological one. Without Snotlings, you wouldn’t have Orks, but without Gretchin, you wouldn’t have Ork Society, either. Gretchin are probably the most underrated, misunderstood, and wrongly maligned Orkoid in the whole 40k pantheon. I probably could have rewritten this whole series over again just concerning things most Ork players misconstrue, do not understand, or overlook about Gretchin. To say that their importance is massive is an understatement: it’s institutional.
There are so many misconceptions, it’s difficult to know where to start, but where better to start with than the beginning…
Gretchin are the penultimate Orkoid to emerge from the sporing process. By the time the last Orkoid arrives (i.e. the Orks), Gretchin will most likely have sourced out a suitable location for the Ork’s first settlement, and built it. By the time the Orks arrive, all they really need to do is populate it, and providing the impetus for change, order and a purpose, can finally bring the race to its full potential. But they can only do that thanks, by and large, to the Gretchin in particular.
Orks in general are particularly forgetful and disinterested in the day-to-day running of Ork society. What keeps an Ork going is war, and only in those circumstances do the Orks actually bother to motivate themselves into action. It is the Gretchin that keeps an Ork society ticking over, and about half of any Ork society will, to an Ork, be a part-hidden complex of networks, producing wares, materials, food, delivering information, and expansion. Without Gretchin, an Ork society would grind to a halt. No Ork would even consider half of the things Gretchin do, and often without prompting.
I’d actually like to take this moment to raise an important point. There is a word, frequently used to describe Gretchin, particularly their relationship to Orks, and that word is slave. In some ways, it is quite apt. Certainly Gretchin can be almost as lazy as Orks, and Orks are invariably cruel to them in order to make them do things. However there are numerous, almost infinite cases of Gretchin performing things, which they must definitely do without prompting. Most Gretchin are better described simply as servants, rather than slaves. They are owned, but unlike most slaves, they mostly do things they are more or less happy, or at least contented to do. Gretchin know their place, and they are very happy with this situation, so long as Orks show some semblance of realising it, at least.
This is actually one of the bigger misconceptions. Ork Players are far too eager to attribute the collective works of the Orkoid species to one part of it (i.e. the Orks). When in fact, the Orkoids can be broken down into Resource (Squigs and Fungus), Cultivator (Snotlings), Warrior (Orks), and Worker (Gretchin). Gretchin do the work. If something was built in Ork society, it was almost entirely built by Gretchin, or at the very least most of it was. The architect might be an Ork, or a Gretchin, but Gretchin are more than capable of building things, and doing it exceptionally well.
Of course, it does depend on the kind of Grot. Gretchin have many roles in Ork society, and whilst most of them can most likely turn their hand to anything with the plucky resolve and resourcefulness that typifies their species, most Gretchin will devote their lives to one or two societal roles at best. This seems fairly modest individually, but compared to most Orks, this is vast, and when viewed collectively, Gretchin are heavily involved in absolutely everything that goes on in Ork Society.
One of the better-known Gretchin roles is that of Rigga. The Rigga is a Grot who assists Meks in building, fixing and maintenance. In fact, they do more of it than the Mek does, but it is the Mek’s expertise that allows them to do so. Still, I once read someone’s comment on this forum that suggested that Grot Riggas could fix an immobilised result half of the time as the most ridiculous thing in all of 40k. Why exactly? The argument is absurd. Gretchin build most things in Ork society, and they keep them running, particularly because they have to. A Mek will only fix something that is flung at them from a particularly angry Ork or one still willing to pay more teeth. Gretchin are the real maintainers (Hah! They’re the only maintainers too!).
Aside of the fact that they are tasked to build most things, and are thus less lazy and much more practical than Orks, they are also smaller, meaning that they can clamber around vehicles, even whilst moving, in order to perform maintenance, reaching hard to reach and cramped spaces better than any Ork could. Besides, any individual Rigga is bound to know more about fixing things and technology in general than your average Ork. Their knowledge is only surpassed by the Mek, whose job it is to know far more about technology than any other Orkoid. So to suggest that Gretchin are useless in this regard is absolutely silly.
Still, this doesn’t mean that every Gretchin knows anything about technology. Most Gretchin are resourceful, and likely know something of construction, but there are an awful lot of Gretchin within any Ork society, and their roles will vary considerably. The Rigga is merely one of these roles, and by far the most common Gretchin roles are domestic servants and merchants. Riggas, and even Gretchin who go to war are in minority, and possess skills that not every Gretchin will intrinsically know. A Grot will know a number of tricks of their particular trade, and much like the concept of Ork society in general, a Gretchin will endeavour to be as useful or efficient at their task as a form of survival.
Much is made of Gretchin cowardice, but this is often at the cost of ignoring their considerable enthusiasm. This is the key really, to understanding Gretchin. They are the idealistic, hopeful, optimistic, and otherwise active part of the Orkoid race. They want to be one of Da Boyz, to fit in, to help out. It is this simple desire, to fight alongside their larger masters, that keeps them going. If the Orks take that away from them, they face a lot of revolting Gretchin. It is what motivates them, and it is also the reason why Ork society continues to function so well. Gretchin work towards their goals, and are thus absolutely necessary to the function of the Ork War Machine.
Gretchin lead lives that are usually rather unpleasant. How indeed they cope, thrive, and do it better than any Ork could hope to do is a testament to their resolve. They are of course, not perfect, and are deeply flawed. They are the least trustful part of the Orkoid race, possessing instincts geared mostly towards their own survival, and the resourcefulness to make hard work light work where possible. Gretchin, loyal or not to a master will always consider being not entirely truthful to them, as what they don’t know don’t hurt them (indeed this is often the case with Orks). Gretchin aren’t particularly efficient, and can be somewhat lapse in their work, but compared to most Orks they’re veritable artisans.
Gretchin are also everywhere. They have their fingers in every pie: every part of Ork Society is in part ran, supervised and proceeded over in some way by Gretchin. Parts of Ork Society are more likely Gretchin societies. Indeed, there is a society within society in any Ork civilisation that represents a vast network of Gretchin contact, trade and information. There’s not an Ork that could twitch without a Gretchin somewhere knowing about it. If the Ork was lucky, it wouldn’t be most of them.
This in part probably explains, or at least confirms Gretchin enthusiasm. Gossip, information, orders and trades are the main means by which Gretchin navigate throughout Orkdom. If an Ork mistreats a Gretchin, the whole network of whispers down alleyways, through bazaars, across windows, rooftops and alehouses means that most Gretchin in town will know about it, and will know surprisingly quickly. Any problem that faces Ork society is likely to get noticed by the Gretchin first, and if by it being war related the Orks do, the Gretchin will know almost as quickly.
I could write pages on the various “pies” the Gretchin have their fingers in, but I feel it important to emphasise some of the more important examples.
The most common varieties of Gretchin duties are domestic servant and trader. The two are usually mutually linked, and the reason for that is that most Gretchin are traders on the side. Most Gretchin don’t make a complete living and existence out of it; they use it as a sideline to fund their endeavours to join the Orks in their war effort, and to be one of Da Boyz. To get guns, equipment, and such requires Teeth (the Ork currency is Ork Teeth), and thus not actually earning a wage for their normal work (merely earning a good hiding if they don’t), most Gretchin run small stands and whatnot selling treats, snacks and other wares. Once they ferret enough Teeth together, they buy equipment so that they can follow their masters to war.
There are parts of any Ork town that are pretty much Gretchin Bazaars (or Markets), selling a variety of wares, usually from questionable sources. Squig treats, rotted gob busters and other fungus snacks are particularly common, because the Orks find them irresistible, and most Gretchin know how to effectively farm them. Gretchin will, of course, sell other things, including varieties of Trained Squig (which occasionally have been trained to return to the merchant more than anything else, as Makari did in one of his tales), and other random assorted bits that Gretchin can safely trade. Gretchin are particularly skilled at making things seem irresistible to Orks, probably because that is pretty much what Gretchin do on a daily basis for Orks in a nutshell.
Some Gretchin make a living out of the thing. These are particularly skilled Gretchin, known as “Dodgers”. The epithet is often particularly fitting, as that is what they’ll often be doing. Whilst not all Gretchin Dodgers are rip-off merchants, thieves and con artists, it certainly does help their trade somewhat if they are able to keep out of, or effectively avoid trouble. The term Dodger is the closest the whole Orkoid race gets to the word entrepreneur, as Dodgers thrive by finding new and interesting ways of depriving Orks of their Teeth for goods, services, or very skilled flattery.
Gretchin are pretty much left to their own devices in such places. The Orks don’t really see the benefit in taking an interest in it. Thus it tends to be pretty self-regulated. If any Ork takes an interest in it, his enforcers are likely Gretchin, or Orks who have their own Gretchin collectors. Often though, one Gretchin will run the place, and will often collect a “fair” (to him) proportion of the teeth any Gretchin merchant makes in the bazaar. Gretchin Bazaars are probably vital to any Ork settlement, especially for those Orks who are not rich enough to own their own Gretchin servant, and thus need to buy food and snacks from Gretchin vendors, or face the prospect of getting it themselves (i.e. buy food and snacks from Gretchin vendors).
A large proportion of Gretchin are domestic servants. There is seldom such a thing as a “free” Grot. If a Grot is not marked, they are fair game, and are often corralled and bossed about by other Orks. The best Gretchin servants are specially trained by Runtherds, but a Runtherd will demand a pretty steep price for them. A powerful Ork household will probably have several Gretchin servants, tasked with the day-to-day running of that household, fetching and cooking food, delivering messages, cleaning, feeding and tending to any Squig pets, emptying latrines, and anything else they are told to do.
Most domestic servants will be familiar with the drops: both because they often take droppings to the drops (although larger Ork settlements will likely have a Drop Kart – more on that later) and also because that’s where most of the best Ork food is to be found. The more delicious it is, the harder it is to catch, and the deeper it is in the drops. Every single trip is incredibly hazardous, but most Gretchin will risk it, because if there’s one thing Orks will openly attest to about Gretchin, they’re the best cooks in all of Orkdom. Besides, it’s not as if they have much choice not to, either.
Most Gretchin are very effective scavengers and foragers. They know pretty much all of the flora and fauna of the Ork race, and will quickly ascertain if there any useful or dangerous alien ones. Their ability as scavengers also makes them invaluable on the battlefield. They are exceptionally popular with Orks of the Deffskulls Clan, who have hundreds of them amidst their ranks, as they can loot better than the master lootas. Indeed Gretchin need to scavenge in order to get by. Gretchin literally live on scraps, so the most successful ones have the tendency to find, steal or race to the largest scraps.
Gretchin have interesting means of survival, and as Orkoids are entirely a survivor race, Gretchin manifest those powers comparable to their means. The most common, but inexplicable trait the Gretchin manipulate is luck, which they pretty much need, given their desires for improvement against rather hazardous and incredibly slim odds. The most famous example was Makari, whose varied and luck-filled career has been somewhat well recorded. Indeed, Makari features in the very first story printed in Waaargh! The Orks, which goes into much detail regarding the difficult lives of Gretchin, and his chance encounter with a big, burly Ork Goff by the name of Ghazghkull Mag Uruk Thraka. Who on earth has heard of him? Sadly, Makari is the victim of a cheap joke in the current Ork Codex, but perhaps he may return one day.
Many of the Gretchin’s roles in Ork society are particularly unpleasant. The Grot Orderly is a particular one that is fairly well known. Doks are rather depraved creatures, and this rubs off ad infinitum with their Orderlies, who often end up far more depraved than their masters. It isn’t surprising, considering the tasks they have to do: looking after the various creatures that the Doks use for medical reasons, often feeding or harvesting from things that are not exactly nice. They also have to dispose of unpleasant body parts, assist the Dok in and clean up after “operashunz”, and help with the most important job, of helping the Dok convince the patient that the operashun was/is absolutely necessary, and to help the Dok extract payment (in fact, they often do that themselves as the Dok goes about doing other things).
Gretchin are skilled at talking (for Orkoids) and Grot Orderlies are masters of the mutterings, lean-ins and supportive statements (such as “Yerh, nasty.”) that they use in their trade. If an Ork is particularly unlucky, most of their operashun will be carried out by Gretchin Orderlies, which aren’t exactly as explorative as a Dok, but are even more likely to completely disregard any concept of the health or well being of the patient.
There are also other unpleasant jobs. By far the worst I’ve encountered is the Drop Kart Gretchin: those that collect offal from the cushier Ork households, and take them to the drops. The smell is, one would presume, almost as bad, or perhaps worse, than a room full of Goffs. Thus they tend to get a wide berth, and well, any trip to the drops could likely be one’s last. When you are carrying a kart full of poo, you’re pretty much a walking target for, and indeed a living embodiment of unpleasantness at the same time. Lavatory Disinfectants in an Ork society are Gretchin.
Probably the most unpleasant job however, is that of being a Gretchin in war. Gathered together into vast mobs led by runtherds; forced to man ear shattering and variedly dangerous Big Gunz; being hooked into a Kan; being tasked with waving a banner around and/or lugging lots of ammo around (the latter two being as close to painting a target on your head as you can get without actually doing it); life for a Gretchin is, as you’d imagine, nasty. Most Gretchin mobs are used as shielding, and to soak up bullets (If Orks wrote the Murphy’s Laws of Combat, to them, the importance of Teamwork would be giving the enemy some Grots to shoot at). Big Gun teams are often deafened, killed and maimed by the nature of the guns (Zzap Guns are a test of courage as well as being weapons of war).
In fact, any Gretchin job is unpleasant, be it construction, domestic, or social, as it can be horribly short. Gretchin usually die in some unpleasant way, usually some nasty accident or catastrophe. Being numerous just means something unpleasant is more likely, but hopefully also more likely to be some other unlucky git.
Still, being a Gretchin is not without its perks. Gretchin are exceptionally cunning and resourceful, and find multiple ways of making a profit from, and getting their own back on the dominant Orks. Each trade comes with natural advantages, such as working in a Ork Brewhouse, which is likely to result in free leftovers, and a few stray teeth that gobsmacked (literally) Orks have failed to notice. Gretchin keep at their lot with a large amount of enthusiasm and hope. They need it, because it isn’t as if the Orks provide any particular comfort, aside of being very easy to fool. Mostly.
Finally, it is worth correcting a few smaller misconceptions. The word “Gretchin” is plural. The use of “Gretchins” is utterly wrong. The word can be used as a singular word, but only by being modified by the appropriate articles (e.g. an, the, a etc). Otherwise, it refers generally to all creatures of that caste, and thus it is often necessary to use language (such as articles or pronouns) to specify specific or individual ones. The word is sometimes used by Orks, but it is almost exclusively used by Imperials, who themselves seldom use the common term the Orks use (i.e. Grots), and probably entered common Ork parlance through contact with Imperials as essentially a scientific name for that part of the Orkoid race. Orks typically use Grots, and more often Grot, for particular Grots. They also use the word as a term of reproach for particularly feeble or young Orks, or “weedy” aliens.
Gretchin are more numerous than Orks, and they are definitely smarter, at least in terms of common sense, language and instinct. More senior Orks can be smarter than Gretchin. This is part of the bigger fish principle. You don’t get to higher positions in Orkdom without learning a lot of important lessons; one of the bigger ones is to be wary of Gretchin. This is a societal truism. All Orks have to deal with Gretchin, and Gretchin are very good at fooling them. Finally, and most importantly of all, Gretchin do the vast majority of any work in Orkdom (after all, the word work has “Ork” in it for no particularly suitable or logical reason, except for the purposes of extreme irony). They do this work usually fairly efficiently. Orks will of course underplay this, but they intrinsically understand this, but sadly being as arrogant as I am (perhaps more), they also intrinsically understand who’s boss.
But we now all know who really runs Ork society.
3. Megatrakk Scrapjets big shootas now hit on 4 (wut?)
I think they only intend this to be the rear big shootas as there is an actual Grot gunner operating that one.
But they haven't made this 100% clear.
yeah, I'm just going to fire the 12 shots at BS 4+ because this is confusing... also I don;t even own a skrapjet so it's also confusing why i would say that.
The model in question:
Spoiler:
You have the grot in the back manning the one twin BS, while the other is up front, near the rokkits, presumably manned by the Ork driver like the other front guns.
TBD wrote: Which weapon exactly is the Scrapjet's twin big shoota? The weapon on the rear or the big guns on the front, or both?
(don't have the codex with me right now so I can check it)
scrapjets have two twin big shootas. So, one hits on 4s, the other on 5s.
I enjoy the new buggies, but the fact that they are all different, with different move, wounds, weapons, often unique to them in the entire codex, and even more differences with how other weapons on the vehicles hit.........makes using them a bit overcomplicated.
Still, scrapjets are the best of the bunch, imo.
"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment." Words to live by.
fe40k wrote: ...and the fact that battlewagon STILL doesn’t work the way it should
Out of interest, what is the Battlewagon doing (or not doing) that you think it shouldn't (or should) be doing to make it work the way you think it should?
Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
Kanluwen wrote: This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.
Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...
tneva82 wrote: You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something...
Battle Wagon is fine in my book. 120pts is exactly where i said it should be and I was over estimating! I love the thing so much I went out there and bought a second one!
lolman1c wrote: Changes I found most interesting (please post below anything I might have missed that you think is important):
1. Waaagh banner can now take Power Klaw ("This model may take a power klaw") so they get the benefit but you don't have to take it if you want them cheaper.
2. Kustom Boosta-blastas, Grot blasta Changed the Strength of this weapon to ‘3’.
3. Megatrakk Scrapjets big shootas now hit on 4 (wut?)
4. Get Stuck In, Ladz! can now only be used at the end of the fight phase (huge nerf )
5. Goff warlord trait got a buff as it now give +1 AP to their weapon
6. Nobz are confirmed to be able to take two choppas but can't take two kombi weapons.
7. Grots can't benefit from the snake bites monster hunting strat (so no more wounding titans on 5s with your grot pistol).
8. You no longer have to culculate the power rating of unit in transport when using the tellyporta Stratagem
9. GW "Pimp[ed] slapp[ed] people who thought Orks couldn't loot their own transports"
10. I think multi wound weapons only goes on 1 grot now. Which means nobz might want to bring about a group of 10 grots to survive a few rounds of plasma.
Well, the Skrapjet does have a Grot Gunner in the backside... although it's weird that apparently this rule also applies to the Twin Big Shoota on the front of the thing
There are some nice clarifications and erratas, but they missed several points and threw in a few nerfs for good measure, so I can't say I'm overly pleased.
We know you can take two choppas, for example, but does that do anything? Obviously it should and chainswords do stack, but they ruled monstrous scything talons don't in the tyranid faq so we're still left wondering what they'll eventually do.
MANz can't benefit from Loot It! at all now, despite other instances of 1+ stats being allowed. Even just changing it to be a +1 to saves for the game would have allowed them to benefit without stumbling into the 1+ hornet's nest, but no.
They even went back and nerfed Big Gunz (without altering the tags, so now it's just "things with grots, but sometimes not" that don't benefit from kultures rather than anything cut and dry) but didn't give anything in the index Dakka Dakka Dakka or Speed Freaks. So now a Big Mek with SAG is different than a Big Mek with a SAG and Evil Sunz warbosses only accept the slowest bikes.
I was also hoping that they'd address a few of the more egregiously terrible units (stompa, primarily, for me), and either adjust the points as a "typo" or throw in a few bonus rules (ramshackle and grinding advance equivalents, maybe) to compensate, but obviously that was never likely to happen.
fe40k wrote: ...and the fact that battlewagon STILL doesn’t work the way it should
Out of interest, what is the Battlewagon doing (or not doing) that you think it shouldn't (or should) be doing to make it work the way you think it should?
Mobile fortress does not apply to the passengers inside; which seems counter fluffy for the model, and also prevents it from being used as a mobile gun base.
Really, is allowing lootas/flashgits or whatever to move and shoot at no -1 penalty really that bad? It’d also give them some much needed protection.
Nightlord1987 wrote: IIRC from the 2nd or 3rd edition codex, Goff clan boyz wont let Gretchin wear the color black since they're too weedy, so I wasnt very surprised to see gretchin left out of Kultures.
yeah but if you read later stuff it changes. Hahahahaa....
Here is a chapter about gretchin written by the Ork experts
Spoiler:
Chapter 12: Gretchin: Slave, Servant, and Societal Necessity
“Gretchin are more numerous than Orks, but the Orks are greatly dependent on them regardless of the size difference between the two races (though no Ork would openly admit this). Orks are lazy and forgetful, and organisation is not their strong point. Only the preparation for war and the excitement of battle really bring out the Orks’ innate talents. Most of the day-to-day running of Ork society – finding and preparing food, taking messages, handling information, fetching and carrying things, organising belongings and so on are left to the Gretchin.”
(Waaargh The Orks, pg.50)
In the previous chapter, I discussed the importance of Snotlings, which is mostly a biological one. Without Snotlings, you wouldn’t have Orks, but without Gretchin, you wouldn’t have Ork Society, either. Gretchin are probably the most underrated, misunderstood, and wrongly maligned Orkoid in the whole 40k pantheon. I probably could have rewritten this whole series over again just concerning things most Ork players misconstrue, do not understand, or overlook about Gretchin. To say that their importance is massive is an understatement: it’s institutional.
There are so many misconceptions, it’s difficult to know where to start, but where better to start with than the beginning…
Gretchin are the penultimate Orkoid to emerge from the sporing process. By the time the last Orkoid arrives (i.e. the Orks), Gretchin will most likely have sourced out a suitable location for the Ork’s first settlement, and built it. By the time the Orks arrive, all they really need to do is populate it, and providing the impetus for change, order and a purpose, can finally bring the race to its full potential. But they can only do that thanks, by and large, to the Gretchin in particular.
Orks in general are particularly forgetful and disinterested in the day-to-day running of Ork society. What keeps an Ork going is war, and only in those circumstances do the Orks actually bother to motivate themselves into action. It is the Gretchin that keeps an Ork society ticking over, and about half of any Ork society will, to an Ork, be a part-hidden complex of networks, producing wares, materials, food, delivering information, and expansion. Without Gretchin, an Ork society would grind to a halt. No Ork would even consider half of the things Gretchin do, and often without prompting.
I’d actually like to take this moment to raise an important point. There is a word, frequently used to describe Gretchin, particularly their relationship to Orks, and that word is slave. In some ways, it is quite apt. Certainly Gretchin can be almost as lazy as Orks, and Orks are invariably cruel to them in order to make them do things. However there are numerous, almost infinite cases of Gretchin performing things, which they must definitely do without prompting. Most Gretchin are better described simply as servants, rather than slaves. They are owned, but unlike most slaves, they mostly do things they are more or less happy, or at least contented to do. Gretchin know their place, and they are very happy with this situation, so long as Orks show some semblance of realising it, at least.
This is actually one of the bigger misconceptions. Ork Players are far too eager to attribute the collective works of the Orkoid species to one part of it (i.e. the Orks). When in fact, the Orkoids can be broken down into Resource (Squigs and Fungus), Cultivator (Snotlings), Warrior (Orks), and Worker (Gretchin). Gretchin do the work. If something was built in Ork society, it was almost entirely built by Gretchin, or at the very least most of it was. The architect might be an Ork, or a Gretchin, but Gretchin are more than capable of building things, and doing it exceptionally well.
Of course, it does depend on the kind of Grot. Gretchin have many roles in Ork society, and whilst most of them can most likely turn their hand to anything with the plucky resolve and resourcefulness that typifies their species, most Gretchin will devote their lives to one or two societal roles at best. This seems fairly modest individually, but compared to most Orks, this is vast, and when viewed collectively, Gretchin are heavily involved in absolutely everything that goes on in Ork Society.
One of the better-known Gretchin roles is that of Rigga. The Rigga is a Grot who assists Meks in building, fixing and maintenance. In fact, they do more of it than the Mek does, but it is the Mek’s expertise that allows them to do so. Still, I once read someone’s comment on this forum that suggested that Grot Riggas could fix an immobilised result half of the time as the most ridiculous thing in all of 40k. Why exactly? The argument is absurd. Gretchin build most things in Ork society, and they keep them running, particularly because they have to. A Mek will only fix something that is flung at them from a particularly angry Ork or one still willing to pay more teeth. Gretchin are the real maintainers (Hah! They’re the only maintainers too!).
Aside of the fact that they are tasked to build most things, and are thus less lazy and much more practical than Orks, they are also smaller, meaning that they can clamber around vehicles, even whilst moving, in order to perform maintenance, reaching hard to reach and cramped spaces better than any Ork could. Besides, any individual Rigga is bound to know more about fixing things and technology in general than your average Ork. Their knowledge is only surpassed by the Mek, whose job it is to know far more about technology than any other Orkoid. So to suggest that Gretchin are useless in this regard is absolutely silly.
Still, this doesn’t mean that every Gretchin knows anything about technology. Most Gretchin are resourceful, and likely know something of construction, but there are an awful lot of Gretchin within any Ork society, and their roles will vary considerably. The Rigga is merely one of these roles, and by far the most common Gretchin roles are domestic servants and merchants. Riggas, and even Gretchin who go to war are in minority, and possess skills that not every Gretchin will intrinsically know. A Grot will know a number of tricks of their particular trade, and much like the concept of Ork society in general, a Gretchin will endeavour to be as useful or efficient at their task as a form of survival.
Much is made of Gretchin cowardice, but this is often at the cost of ignoring their considerable enthusiasm. This is the key really, to understanding Gretchin. They are the idealistic, hopeful, optimistic, and otherwise active part of the Orkoid race. They want to be one of Da Boyz, to fit in, to help out. It is this simple desire, to fight alongside their larger masters, that keeps them going. If the Orks take that away from them, they face a lot of revolting Gretchin. It is what motivates them, and it is also the reason why Ork society continues to function so well. Gretchin work towards their goals, and are thus absolutely necessary to the function of the Ork War Machine.
Gretchin lead lives that are usually rather unpleasant. How indeed they cope, thrive, and do it better than any Ork could hope to do is a testament to their resolve. They are of course, not perfect, and are deeply flawed. They are the least trustful part of the Orkoid race, possessing instincts geared mostly towards their own survival, and the resourcefulness to make hard work light work where possible. Gretchin, loyal or not to a master will always consider being not entirely truthful to them, as what they don’t know don’t hurt them (indeed this is often the case with Orks). Gretchin aren’t particularly efficient, and can be somewhat lapse in their work, but compared to most Orks they’re veritable artisans.
Gretchin are also everywhere. They have their fingers in every pie: every part of Ork Society is in part ran, supervised and proceeded over in some way by Gretchin. Parts of Ork Society are more likely Gretchin societies. Indeed, there is a society within society in any Ork civilisation that represents a vast network of Gretchin contact, trade and information. There’s not an Ork that could twitch without a Gretchin somewhere knowing about it. If the Ork was lucky, it wouldn’t be most of them.
This in part probably explains, or at least confirms Gretchin enthusiasm. Gossip, information, orders and trades are the main means by which Gretchin navigate throughout Orkdom. If an Ork mistreats a Gretchin, the whole network of whispers down alleyways, through bazaars, across windows, rooftops and alehouses means that most Gretchin in town will know about it, and will know surprisingly quickly. Any problem that faces Ork society is likely to get noticed by the Gretchin first, and if by it being war related the Orks do, the Gretchin will know almost as quickly.
I could write pages on the various “pies” the Gretchin have their fingers in, but I feel it important to emphasise some of the more important examples.
The most common varieties of Gretchin duties are domestic servant and trader. The two are usually mutually linked, and the reason for that is that most Gretchin are traders on the side. Most Gretchin don’t make a complete living and existence out of it; they use it as a sideline to fund their endeavours to join the Orks in their war effort, and to be one of Da Boyz. To get guns, equipment, and such requires Teeth (the Ork currency is Ork Teeth), and thus not actually earning a wage for their normal work (merely earning a good hiding if they don’t), most Gretchin run small stands and whatnot selling treats, snacks and other wares. Once they ferret enough Teeth together, they buy equipment so that they can follow their masters to war.
There are parts of any Ork town that are pretty much Gretchin Bazaars (or Markets), selling a variety of wares, usually from questionable sources. Squig treats, rotted gob busters and other fungus snacks are particularly common, because the Orks find them irresistible, and most Gretchin know how to effectively farm them. Gretchin will, of course, sell other things, including varieties of Trained Squig (which occasionally have been trained to return to the merchant more than anything else, as Makari did in one of his tales), and other random assorted bits that Gretchin can safely trade. Gretchin are particularly skilled at making things seem irresistible to Orks, probably because that is pretty much what Gretchin do on a daily basis for Orks in a nutshell.
Some Gretchin make a living out of the thing. These are particularly skilled Gretchin, known as “Dodgers”. The epithet is often particularly fitting, as that is what they’ll often be doing. Whilst not all Gretchin Dodgers are rip-off merchants, thieves and con artists, it certainly does help their trade somewhat if they are able to keep out of, or effectively avoid trouble. The term Dodger is the closest the whole Orkoid race gets to the word entrepreneur, as Dodgers thrive by finding new and interesting ways of depriving Orks of their Teeth for goods, services, or very skilled flattery.
Gretchin are pretty much left to their own devices in such places. The Orks don’t really see the benefit in taking an interest in it. Thus it tends to be pretty self-regulated. If any Ork takes an interest in it, his enforcers are likely Gretchin, or Orks who have their own Gretchin collectors. Often though, one Gretchin will run the place, and will often collect a “fair” (to him) proportion of the teeth any Gretchin merchant makes in the bazaar. Gretchin Bazaars are probably vital to any Ork settlement, especially for those Orks who are not rich enough to own their own Gretchin servant, and thus need to buy food and snacks from Gretchin vendors, or face the prospect of getting it themselves (i.e. buy food and snacks from Gretchin vendors).
A large proportion of Gretchin are domestic servants. There is seldom such a thing as a “free” Grot. If a Grot is not marked, they are fair game, and are often corralled and bossed about by other Orks. The best Gretchin servants are specially trained by Runtherds, but a Runtherd will demand a pretty steep price for them. A powerful Ork household will probably have several Gretchin servants, tasked with the day-to-day running of that household, fetching and cooking food, delivering messages, cleaning, feeding and tending to any Squig pets, emptying latrines, and anything else they are told to do.
Most domestic servants will be familiar with the drops: both because they often take droppings to the drops (although larger Ork settlements will likely have a Drop Kart – more on that later) and also because that’s where most of the best Ork food is to be found. The more delicious it is, the harder it is to catch, and the deeper it is in the drops. Every single trip is incredibly hazardous, but most Gretchin will risk it, because if there’s one thing Orks will openly attest to about Gretchin, they’re the best cooks in all of Orkdom. Besides, it’s not as if they have much choice not to, either.
Most Gretchin are very effective scavengers and foragers. They know pretty much all of the flora and fauna of the Ork race, and will quickly ascertain if there any useful or dangerous alien ones. Their ability as scavengers also makes them invaluable on the battlefield. They are exceptionally popular with Orks of the Deffskulls Clan, who have hundreds of them amidst their ranks, as they can loot better than the master lootas. Indeed Gretchin need to scavenge in order to get by. Gretchin literally live on scraps, so the most successful ones have the tendency to find, steal or race to the largest scraps.
Gretchin have interesting means of survival, and as Orkoids are entirely a survivor race, Gretchin manifest those powers comparable to their means. The most common, but inexplicable trait the Gretchin manipulate is luck, which they pretty much need, given their desires for improvement against rather hazardous and incredibly slim odds. The most famous example was Makari, whose varied and luck-filled career has been somewhat well recorded. Indeed, Makari features in the very first story printed in Waaargh! The Orks, which goes into much detail regarding the difficult lives of Gretchin, and his chance encounter with a big, burly Ork Goff by the name of Ghazghkull Mag Uruk Thraka. Who on earth has heard of him? Sadly, Makari is the victim of a cheap joke in the current Ork Codex, but perhaps he may return one day.
Many of the Gretchin’s roles in Ork society are particularly unpleasant. The Grot Orderly is a particular one that is fairly well known. Doks are rather depraved creatures, and this rubs off ad infinitum with their Orderlies, who often end up far more depraved than their masters. It isn’t surprising, considering the tasks they have to do: looking after the various creatures that the Doks use for medical reasons, often feeding or harvesting from things that are not exactly nice. They also have to dispose of unpleasant body parts, assist the Dok in and clean up after “operashunz”, and help with the most important job, of helping the Dok convince the patient that the operashun was/is absolutely necessary, and to help the Dok extract payment (in fact, they often do that themselves as the Dok goes about doing other things).
Gretchin are skilled at talking (for Orkoids) and Grot Orderlies are masters of the mutterings, lean-ins and supportive statements (such as “Yerh, nasty.”) that they use in their trade. If an Ork is particularly unlucky, most of their operashun will be carried out by Gretchin Orderlies, which aren’t exactly as explorative as a Dok, but are even more likely to completely disregard any concept of the health or well being of the patient.
There are also other unpleasant jobs. By far the worst I’ve encountered is the Drop Kart Gretchin: those that collect offal from the cushier Ork households, and take them to the drops. The smell is, one would presume, almost as bad, or perhaps worse, than a room full of Goffs. Thus they tend to get a wide berth, and well, any trip to the drops could likely be one’s last. When you are carrying a kart full of poo, you’re pretty much a walking target for, and indeed a living embodiment of unpleasantness at the same time. Lavatory Disinfectants in an Ork society are Gretchin.
Probably the most unpleasant job however, is that of being a Gretchin in war. Gathered together into vast mobs led by runtherds; forced to man ear shattering and variedly dangerous Big Gunz; being hooked into a Kan; being tasked with waving a banner around and/or lugging lots of ammo around (the latter two being as close to painting a target on your head as you can get without actually doing it); life for a Gretchin is, as you’d imagine, nasty. Most Gretchin mobs are used as shielding, and to soak up bullets (If Orks wrote the Murphy’s Laws of Combat, to them, the importance of Teamwork would be giving the enemy some Grots to shoot at). Big Gun teams are often deafened, killed and maimed by the nature of the guns (Zzap Guns are a test of courage as well as being weapons of war).
In fact, any Gretchin job is unpleasant, be it construction, domestic, or social, as it can be horribly short. Gretchin usually die in some unpleasant way, usually some nasty accident or catastrophe. Being numerous just means something unpleasant is more likely, but hopefully also more likely to be some other unlucky git.
Still, being a Gretchin is not without its perks. Gretchin are exceptionally cunning and resourceful, and find multiple ways of making a profit from, and getting their own back on the dominant Orks. Each trade comes with natural advantages, such as working in a Ork Brewhouse, which is likely to result in free leftovers, and a few stray teeth that gobsmacked (literally) Orks have failed to notice. Gretchin keep at their lot with a large amount of enthusiasm and hope. They need it, because it isn’t as if the Orks provide any particular comfort, aside of being very easy to fool. Mostly.
Finally, it is worth correcting a few smaller misconceptions. The word “Gretchin” is plural. The use of “Gretchins” is utterly wrong. The word can be used as a singular word, but only by being modified by the appropriate articles (e.g. an, the, a etc). Otherwise, it refers generally to all creatures of that caste, and thus it is often necessary to use language (such as articles or pronouns) to specify specific or individual ones. The word is sometimes used by Orks, but it is almost exclusively used by Imperials, who themselves seldom use the common term the Orks use (i.e. Grots), and probably entered common Ork parlance through contact with Imperials as essentially a scientific name for that part of the Orkoid race. Orks typically use Grots, and more often Grot, for particular Grots. They also use the word as a term of reproach for particularly feeble or young Orks, or “weedy” aliens.
Gretchin are more numerous than Orks, and they are definitely smarter, at least in terms of common sense, language and instinct. More senior Orks can be smarter than Gretchin. This is part of the bigger fish principle. You don’t get to higher positions in Orkdom without learning a lot of important lessons; one of the bigger ones is to be wary of Gretchin. This is a societal truism. All Orks have to deal with Gretchin, and Gretchin are very good at fooling them. Finally, and most importantly of all, Gretchin do the vast majority of any work in Orkdom (after all, the word work has “Ork” in it for no particularly suitable or logical reason, except for the purposes of extreme irony). They do this work usually fairly efficiently. Orks will of course underplay this, but they intrinsically understand this, but sadly being as arrogant as I am (perhaps more), they also intrinsically understand who’s boss.
But we now all know who really runs Ork society.
lolman1c wrote: Yeah, this was the confusing pat. The rule iust says all the big shootas... weird.
That's not what the errata says. It says "this model's big shoota", singular. Not "Big shootas". RAW, you cannot shoot both Big shootas at BS4+, only one. RAI, there's only one Grot gunner on the model so...
Come on, guys. All the new buggies have Grot Gunners on the weapon that is actually being manned by grots on the physical model. No more, no less. The wording is bad on the Megatrakk, but anyone saying they don't know what GW means is taking the piss.
The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins.
lord_blackfang wrote: Come on, guys. All the new buggies have Grot Gunners on the weapon that is actually being manned by grots on the physical model. No more, no less. The wording is bad on the Megatrakk, but anyone saying they don't know what GW means is taking the piss.
chimeara wrote: Just saying. The CSM and Khorne Daemon strat to fight again has always been at the end of the phase. Why would Orks be any different?
I couldn't guess why it would be different but it certainly was. It's now been changed to be the same as the other fight again stratagems, rather than having the benefit of also being able to be used whenever the controlling player is eligible to select a unit to fight.
Bitharne wrote: You forgot pimp slapping people who thought Orks couldn't loot their own transports
Not to burst your bubble, but the "people who thought Orks couldn't loot their own transports" were damn right. They CHANGED the stratagem to allow you to loot the transport you were embarked on. The printed version in the codex didn't allow them to. You should be thankful people pointed that out to GW so it was fixed rather than treating playing by the rules as a dirty thing.
We know you can take two choppas, for example, but does that do anything? Obviously it should and chainswords do stack, but they ruled monstrous scything talons don't in the tyranid faq so we're still left wondering what they'll eventually do.
Because they aren't the same rule.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/11/20 13:41:46
5. Goff warlord trait got a buff as it now give +1 AP to their weapon
Not exactly
Change the rules text to read: ‘Add 1 to your Warlord’s Attacks characteristic. In addition, improve the Armour Penetration characteristic of melee weapons this Warlord is equipped with by 1 during any turn in which they made a charge move, were charged, or performed a Heroic Intervention (e.g. AP -1 becomes AP -2).’
Still it will hurt plenty when it really matters, I guess.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/20 17:38:37
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Deffskullz desert scavengers
Thousand Sons 
