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 Kcalehc wrote:

 kaiservonhugal wrote:
Can the unit grav shoot deploy more than 9 inches away and then move closer than 9”? Or advance?

Yes a unit dropping from a Valk in this way can move and act normally the rest of the turn.
That's the thing that makes it powerful with Scions, you can disembark at 9", then move closer; into rapid fire range for your hot-shots, and/or into close range for melta-guns. Also good for any close combat units you may use to, get into a turn 1 charge - as the stratagem here does not specify what units may be in the Valkyrie, so you can have anything in there that's allowed (Bullgryns or Crusaders + Priest, or whatever)

About to use this detachment in a tournament tomorrow - are you 100% sure that I can fly 45", disembark scions within 3" of the Valkyrie but >9" from an enemy, then move closer?

For some reason I have in my head that being embarked in a moving vehicle counts as moving...

Nah, you are good.

 Kcalehc wrote:

 kaiservonhugal wrote:
Can the unit grav shoot deploy more than 9 inches away and then move closer than 9”? Or advance?

Yes a unit dropping from a Valk in this way can move and act normally the rest of the turn.
That's the thing that makes it powerful with Scions, you can disembark at 9", then move closer; into rapid fire range for your hot-shots, and/or into close range for melta-guns. Also good for any close combat units you may use to, get into a turn 1 charge - as the stratagem here does not specify what units may be in the Valkyrie, so you can have anything in there that's allowed (Bullgryns or Crusaders + Priest, or whatever)

Im pretty sure you cannot do this. The BRB FAQ states that units inside a transport that has moved are classed as moving themselves. You cannot move a unit twice.

Thanks, Dadavester

BRB FAQ

Q: If a transport moves, do any models embarked inside it count
as also having moved?
A: Yes.

Can a Valk that deepstrikes in have the troops embarked inside grav chute out?

General Hobbs wrote:


Can a Valk that deepstrikes in have the troops embarked inside grav chute out?

No, because it's the end of the movement phase, thus there is no more time left to use the grav chute rule.

 Silentz wrote:
Thanks, Dadavester

BRB FAQ

Q: If a transport moves, do any models embarked inside it count
as also having moved?
A: Yes.

My doubt is regarding this, but in the disembark rule is written that the unit that disembark count as having moved for any rules purpose, yet they still can move. So the BRB FAQ change anything?

 Fen wrote:

 Silentz wrote:
Thanks, Dadavester

BRB FAQ

Q: If a transport moves, do any models embarked inside it count
as also having moved?
A: Yes.

My doubt is regarding this, but in the disembark rule is written that the unit that disembark count as having moved for any rules purpose, yet they still can move. So the BRB FAQ change anything?

My guess it's mainly for open-topped transports, and to be extra explicit despite the rule being clear.

So wait, can I or can I not disembark a unit from a vehicle and then move the unit?

 Fen wrote:

 Silentz wrote:
Thanks, Dadavester

BRB FAQ

Q: If a transport moves, do any models embarked inside it count
as also having moved?
A: Yes.

My doubt is regarding this, but in the disembark rule is written that the unit that disembark count as having moved for any rules purpose, yet they still can move. So the BRB FAQ change anything?

The rules states you can act normally after disembarking. Not that you can move. Acting normally is moving once, so as the unit is counted as moving after the transport has moved you cannot move again.

 Apple Peel wrote:
So wait, can I or can I not disembark a unit from a vehicle and then move the unit?

You can disembark before the vehicle moves and then immediately move the unit because the rules for disembarking give you permission to do so.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Apple Peel wrote:
So wait, can I or can I not disembark a unit from a vehicle and then move the unit?

You can disembark before the vehicle moves and then immediately move the unit because the rules for disembarking give you permission to do so.

Or, in the case of a Valkyrie, disembark during the move, and then move the disembarked units.

Dadavester wrote:

The rules states you can act normally after disembarking. Not that you can move. Acting normally is moving once, so as the unit is counted as moving after the transport has moved you cannot move again.

So a unit that disembark can't move? Since in the disembark rule the unit count has having moved even if the transport didn't.
I ask because I don't understand the difference between the "count as moved" of the BRB FAQ and the "count as moved" of the disembark rules. Unless you're suggesting that the disembark rule itself negate the movement to the units that do so.

 Fen wrote:

Dadavester wrote:

The rules states you can act normally after disembarking. Not that you can move. Acting normally is moving once, so as the unit is counted as moving after the transport has moved you cannot move again.

So a unit that disembark can't move? Since in the disembark rule the unit count has having moved even if the transport didn't.
I ask because I don't understand the difference between the "count as moved" of the BRB FAQ and the "count as moved" of the disembark rules. Unless you're suggesting that the disembark rule itself negate the movement to the units that do so.

Dadavester is incorrect. A unit can disembark and move in the same turn. One of the reasons the Grav Chute disembark is so powerful is that you can move after disembarking despite moving the Valk first, which is not normally possible. Normally you are forced to disembark then move BEFORE the transport moves.

This is not that hard.

Normal Disembark: Must be done before the transport moves. The unit can disembark and move per the transport rules in the BRB.

Grav-chute Insertion (Valkyries and the like): Models may disembark (see transport rules for more details) from the vehicle during any point during it's move. If the Valkyrie moves more than 20", you must roll d6 for each model disembarking. Each 1 means that model is slain. Also, you must setup more then 9" away from enemy models. Note that per the rules for disembarking, you may move after disembarking.

A unit that has disembarked in the normal way, before the transport has moved, can act normally. If it does not move after disembarking it is classed as moving for rules purposes such as heavy weapons.

A unit that disembarks after a transport has moved is classed as moving. So using disembark rules it acts normally. This means it cannot move as it has already moved once and you cannot move twice in the movement phase.

A unit that disembarks always "counts as" moving regardless of what the transport has done before the unit disembarks. You can't have it both ways, it's either one or the other.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Fen wrote:

Dadavester wrote:

The rules states you can act normally after disembarking. Not that you can move. Acting normally is moving once, so as the unit is counted as moving after the transport has moved you cannot move again.

So a unit that disembark can't move? Since in the disembark rule the unit count has having moved even if the transport didn't.
I ask because I don't understand the difference between the "count as moved" of the BRB FAQ and the "count as moved" of the disembark rules. Unless you're suggesting that the disembark rule itself negate the movement to the units that do so.

Dadavester is incorrect. A unit can disembark and move in the same turn. One of the reasons the Grav Chute disembark is so powerful is that you can move after disembarking despite moving the Valk first, which is not normally possible. Normally you are forced to disembark then move BEFORE the transport moves.

A unit can disembark and act normally in the same turn. Acting normally is moving once, not twice. The BRB FAQ states that a unit that is embarked on a transport that has moved is classed as moving. So therefore a unit that has disembarked after a transport has moved cannot be moved again as it is not acting normally.

Dadavester wrote:
A unit that has disembarked in the normal way, before the transport has moved, can act normally. If it does not move after disembarking it is classed as moving for rules purposes such as heavy weapons.

A unit that disembarks after a transport has moved is classed as moving. So using disembark rules it acts normally. This means it cannot move as it has already moved once and you cannot move twice in the movement phase.

The unit that disembark even if it not move, count as having moved for ANY rules purpose, that include the shooting of heavy weapon (BRB pg.183)

Q: If a transport moves, do any models embarked inside it count as also having moved?
A: Yes. (BRB FAQ pg6)

Is the exact same wording

Which is not relevant, since that FAQ only applies to units that are embarked inside a transport. A unit that has disembarked is obviously not embarked.

 alextroy wrote:
Which is not relevant, since that FAQ only applies to units that are embarked inside a transport. A unit that has disembarked is obviously not embarked.

I thought that the point was regarding the units that disembark from the valkyrie with its special ability
I was asking why if a unit disembark from a transport can move even if they "count as having moved" , while the units that disembark from the valkyrie via the "grav-chute insertion" can't because they "count as having moved" for the BRB FAQ.
Since it's the same wording it should work in the same way.

 Kcalehc wrote:

 kaiservonhugal wrote:
Can the unit grav shoot deploy more than 9 inches away and then move closer than 9”? Or advance?

Yes a unit dropping from a Valk in this way can move and act normally the rest of the turn.
That's the thing that makes it powerful with Scions, you can disembark at 9", then move closer; into rapid fire range for your hot-shots, and/or into close range for melta-guns. Also good for any close combat units you may use to, get into a turn 1 charge - as the stratagem here does not specify what units may be in the Valkyrie, so you can have anything in there that's allowed (Bullgryns or Crusaders + Priest, or whatever)

Why can they? Please show me the rules that they can.

The rules for Disembark say "Act normally for the rest of the turn." The rules for disembarking a moved transport as per the FAQ state that the unit has already moved. It can disembark via the Valk special rule, but nowhere does it say it can move again.

Dadavester wrote:
The rules for disembarking a moved transport as per the FAQ state that the unit has already moved.

It says no such thing. In fact it says the literal opposite.

BRB Page 183 wrote:Units that disembark can then act normally (move, shoot, charge, fight, etc.) during the remainder of their turn. Note though, that even if you don’t move disembarking units further in your Movement phase, they still count as having moved for any rules purposes, such as shooting Heavy weapons (pg 180).

 BaconCatBug wrote:

Dadavester wrote:
The rules for disembarking a moved transport as per the FAQ state that the unit has already moved.

It says no such thing. In fact it says the literal opposite.

BRB Page 183 wrote:Units that disembark can then act normally (move, shoot, charge, fight, etc.) during the remainder of their turn. Note though, that even if you don’t move disembarking units further in your Movement phase, they still count as having moved for any rules purposes, such as shooting Heavy weapons (pg 180).

Notice the act normally part of the disembark. As a unit has disembarked before the transport has moved it can then move. however beacuse of the FAQ

Q: If a transport moves, do any models embarked inside it count as also having moved?
A: Yes. (BRB FAQ pg6)

This now means that if the transport has moved the unit inside has moved. If the unit was acting normally would it be able to move twice?

The unit gets to act normally after disembarking. Anything that happens before doesn't matter.

Dandelion wrote:
The unit gets to act normally after disembarking. Anything that happens before doesn't matter.

Completely false... Nothing in grav chute insertion overrides the BRB restrictions for transports and disembarking. Only that you may disembarking anywhere along the vehicles movement instead of at beg or end.

Dandelion wrote:
The unit gets to act normally after disembarking. Anything that happens before doesn't matter.

Why does anything that happens before not matter? There is no rule stating that at all.

It gets to act normally after it has disembarked, is it normal for a unit to move twice?

 quickfuze wrote:

Dandelion wrote:
The unit gets to act normally after disembarking. Anything that happens before doesn't matter.

Completely false... Nothing in grav chute insertion overrides the BRB restrictions for transports and disembarking. Only that you may disembarking anywhere along the vehicles movement instead of at beg or end.

Normally you can only disembark at the beginning of the movement phase; not during or at the end. As such, the valk rule completely overrides that restriction, allowing you to disembark during or after movement and then act as normal as per the transport rules.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dadavester wrote:

Dandelion wrote:
The unit gets to act normally after disembarking. Anything that happens before doesn't matter.

Why does anything that happens before not matter? There is no rule stating that at all.

It gets to act normally after it has disembarked, is it normal for a unit to move twice?

The rule states that the unit can act as normal after disembarking. The rules for being embarked no longer apply. Besides, I doubt it's "normal" for most infantry to move 20" and be unable to move within 9" of an enemy unit, so clearly they weren't acting "normally" prior to disembarking.

Dadavester wrote:

BRB Page 183 wrote:
Units that disembark can then act normally (move, shoot, charge, fight, etc.) during the remainder of their turn. Note though, that even if you don’t move disembarking units further in your Movement phase, they still count as having moved for any rules purposes, such as shooting Heavy weapons (pg 180).

Notice the act normally part of the disembark. As a unit has disembarked before the transport has moved it can then move. however beacuse of the FAQ

Q: If a transport moves, do any models embarked inside it count as also having moved?
A: Yes. (BRB FAQ pg6)

This now means that if the transport has moved the unit inside has moved. If the unit was acting normally would it be able to move twice?

No one can move twice, but no unit does, because "if you don’t move disembarking units further in your Movement phase" does that unit "count as having moved for any rules purposes"

If you move them, that part of the rule does not apply and you are only moving them once not twice.

Ergo you can disembark and then move the unit. Note that if you do not move the unit that unit does count as having moved for any rules purposes (But that does not happen until the end of the phase).

 DeathReaper wrote:

Dadavester wrote:

BRB Page 183 wrote:
Units that disembark can then act normally (move, shoot, charge, fight, etc.) during the remainder of their turn. Note though, that even if you don’t move disembarking units further in your Movement phase, they still count as having moved for any rules purposes, such as shooting Heavy weapons (pg 180).

Notice the act normally part of the disembark. As a unit has disembarked before the transport has moved it can then move. however beacuse of the FAQ

Q: If a transport moves, do any models embarked inside it count as also having moved?
A: Yes. (BRB FAQ pg6)

This now means that if the transport has moved the unit inside has moved. If the unit was acting normally would it be able to move twice?

No one can move twice, but no unit does, because "if you don’t move disembarking units further in your Movement phase" does that unit "count as having moved for any rules purposes"

If you move them, that part of the rule does not apply and you are only moving them once not twice.

Ergo you can disembark and then move the unit. Note that if you do not move the unit that unit does count as having moved for any rules purposes (But that does not happen until the end of the phase).

Right, that is how it works for normal transports/disembarking before the transport moves.

But for a Valk disembarking units after it has moved how does it work? The BRB FAQ states the unit inside has moved, thus you cannot move after the disembark as you are moving the unit twice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dandelion wrote:

 quickfuze wrote:

Dandelion wrote:
The unit gets to act normally after disembarking. Anything that happens before doesn't matter.

Completely false... Nothing in grav chute insertion overrides the BRB restrictions for transports and disembarking. Only that you may disembarking anywhere along the vehicles movement instead of at beg or end.

Normally you can only disembark at the beginning of the movement phase; not during or at the end. As such, the valk rule completely overrides that restriction, allowing you to disembark during or after movement and then act as normal as per the transport rules.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dadavester wrote:

Dandelion wrote:
The unit gets to act normally after disembarking. Anything that happens before doesn't matter.

Why does anything that happens before not matter? There is no rule stating that at all.

It gets to act normally after it has disembarked, is it normal for a unit to move twice?

The rule states that the unit can act as normal after disembarking. The rules for being embarked no longer apply. Besides, I doubt it's "normal" for most infantry to move 20" and be unable to move within 9" of an enemy unit, so clearly they weren't acting "normally" prior to disembarking.

Again where does it say that the unit has no longer classed as moving? The only clarity we have on it is the FAQ stating that if the transport has moved the unit has moved. There is nothing anywhere stating if you disembark the unit that stops.

All it states is the unit can act normally. Now the unit has moved this turn, so under normal circumstances it cannot move again. Nothing at all states that the unit is no longer classed as moving.