SOB Beta Codex - The best for price (points) gunline/CP battery detachment

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**Dovis**

Creeping Dementia wrote:
Lol this thread is funny. The title is almost correct, Sisters are a good CP battery so armies that actually have good units and abilities can be better.

As a gunline on their own? They don't have the range, firepower, or abilities to stand up to any other gunline out there.
They don't have any mobility to actually take objectives to win games.
They are a less valid mono-dex army than any other real Codex, even ones that only have 1 entry per Force Org slot (Harlequins, for example).

At best from a competitive standpoint, sisters from the Beta Codex can be a good min sized battalion for CPs and provide some psychic defense, though Guard still generate more CPs if that's what you're after.

Ask anyone that actually plays Sisters, the Index was far better than the Beta Codex, and more fun and flavorful. They kind of work if they are a minor contributor to an army for CPs for Deathwatch or Custodes, a Castellan, an Assassin detatchment, etc., but they are not a viable main army right now. Too many deficiencies in too many categories, at least based on my games so far (1-5 record with beta Codex, with the only win against TS due to psychic defenses). The mathhammer doesn't hold up in actual game play.

*Edit: and who cares about killing Orks anyway. Everyone can kill Orks, that's why they exist. If you kill 90 Orks by shooting, but 30 get to your line and roll you up then the Orks still win.

Never said they are good enough standalone, no army should be great at everything

**Mmmpi**

There are a lot of people who disagree with the first part of your statement. And while every army shouldn't be good at everything, they should be able to cover their bases well enough not to auto-lose.

**A.T.**

Detachment wise I think players looking at taking sisters would be better served using the relic to generate Deny rolls, though it requires them to be squeezed together in a single blob.
3+/5++/6++ if you don't need the warlord trait elsewhere. Not worth the points or CP investment to get the save any higher. The bare minimum battalion comes in just over 200 and a relic for 5 full-strength deny the witch rolls backed up by a 4+ stratagem deny that can be used in combination with the deny roll.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Ok wait. If a sisters army which are specialists in different flavours of flamers (which got a price decrease), can't handle horde, then there is something fundamentally wrong with flamers in the first place.
And for killing non-horde. Exorcists look pretty decent to me. Range 48 inches, d6 shots of str 8 at -4 AP, dmg d6 at BS 3+, all for just 125 points. Bring three for a total of just 375 points.

Flamers just aren't what they used to be unfortunately. Though the sisters are not specialists with them - their shooting faith power explicitly does not work with them, nor do their warlord or faction traits grant any bonuses, nor do they have any specialised flame weapons aside from the immolation flamer (a vehicle mounted twin heavy flamer), nor do they have much in the way of flamer-enhancing stratagems.
Pretty much all stormbolters and meltas these days.

Exorcists are about 2/3rds of a las-predator. They struggle against T8 and are random as anything but are decently robust with T8 themselves. Of course you are far better off with a top-end weapons platform like a raven castellan, but in terms of smaller vehicles the exorcist is probably competing more against the supreme command of command russes.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dovis wrote:
It's a perfect anti-horde force

I strongly recommend you play the force, mono, against various opponents and factions and then post your findings here and to GW.

**Creeping Dementia**

Dovis wrote:
Creeping Dementia wrote:
Lol this thread is funny. The title is almost correct, Sisters are a good CP battery so armies that actually have good units and abilities can be better.

As a gunline on their own? They don't have the range, firepower, or abilities to stand up to any other gunline out there.
They don't have any mobility to actually take objectives to win games.
They are a less valid mono-dex army than any other real Codex, even ones that only have 1 entry per Force Org slot (Harlequins, for example).

At best from a competitive standpoint, sisters from the Beta Codex can be a good min sized battalion for CPs and provide some psychic defense, though Guard still generate more CPs if that's what you're after.

Ask anyone that actually plays Sisters, the Index was far better than the Beta Codex, and more fun and flavorful. They kind of work if they are a minor contributor to an army for CPs for Deathwatch or Custodes, a Castellan, an Assassin detatchment, etc., but they are not a viable main army right now. Too many deficiencies in too many categories, at least based on my games so far (1-5 record with beta Codex, with the only win against TS due to psychic defenses). The mathhammer doesn't hold up in actual game play.

*Edit: and who cares about killing Orks anyway. Everyone can kill Orks, that's why they exist. If you kill 90 Orks by shooting, but 30 get to your line and roll you up then the Orks still win.

Never said they are good enough standalone, no army should be great at everything

Then I guess they are working as intended, though you you could probably change the everything to anything and still not be far off.

A.T. wrote:
Detachment wise I think players looking at taking sisters would be better served using the relic to generate Deny rolls, though it requires them to be squeezed together in a single blob.
3+/5++/6++ if you don't need the warlord trait elsewhere. Not worth the points or CP investment to get the save any higher. The bare minimum battalion comes in just over 200 and a relic for 5 full-strength deny the witch rolls backed up by a 4+ stratagem deny that can be used in combination with the deny roll.

That really is the ideal role for Sisters right now. The Loyal 17. Actually not bad for helping keep psychic powers at bay while Deathwatch or Custodes get their work done, never want those MWs hitting elite marine units.

**Dovis**

Loyal 17, has a nice ring to it, being primarily a Dark Angels player I would most likely consider that

**Mmmpi**

Then go for it. 15 battle sisters, cannoness, missionary.

**Dovis**

Mmmpi wrote:
Then go for it. 15 battle sisters, cannoness, missionary.

Want them plastic models though, I'm using converted Sisters of Silence now, but they look meh

**Mmmpi**

Then proxy and try it.

Or don't.

**dhallnet**

Mmmpi wrote:
They do actually get 60 shots. 5 stormbolters x 4 shots x three units.

Major oopsie
My bad, I counted them as min sized BSS.

**ERJAK**

Burning descent Seraphim are surprisingly useable. It's the only use you'll get out of them but 122pts and 1CP is...close to being on par with similar choices from other armies.

**Mmmpi**

dhallnet wrote:
Mmmpi wrote:
They do actually get 60 shots. 5 stormbolters x 4 shots x three units.

Major oopsie
My bad, I counted them as min sized BSS.

Yeah, that is minimum sized. Five sisters (one superior) four can take SB's and the superior can take a storm bolter.

Sisters, the army that gets stormbolters instead of plasma.

Edit: Meant to say "It happens to all of us, don't sweat it."

**deviantduck**

IG already have the Lucky/Loyal 32. Sisters should be the Faithful Fifteen. Much better ring.

Also Dovis has obviously not played against the new Orks dex.Boys don't stand on the deployment line asking to be shot up. They're in the tellyporta and back in a corner next to the weird boy. Most stuff on the line is in a truck/wagon.

**Mmmpi**

Calling it "Faithful 17" myself. (15 bss, cannoness, missionary)

**Dovis**

deviantduck wrote:
IG already have the Lucky/Loyal 32. Sisters should be the Faithful Fifteen. Much better ring.

Also Dovis has obviously not played against the new Orks dex.Boys don't stand on the deployment line asking to be shot up. They're in the tellyporta and back in a corner next to the weird boy. Most stuff on the line is in a truck/wagon.

I addressed that one teleporting squad - it's a suicide squad that gets nothing done. Especially if you have a detachment of Deathwatch taking point on overwatch, with the stratagem, stem the green tide, the orcs don't even make the charge and what's left after the failed charge get's creamed by aggressors next turn

**Mmmpi**

So now your army has sisters, DW and what else? Oh, and that DW unit is how many points again (400+) and uses even more command points for anti-horde?

Also, how it said unit in more than one place?

So yeah.

**Ordana**

The problem with the Faithful 17 is the same problem you always run into when trying to replace the Loyal 32.
The Guard is cheaper, has more bodies with better synergy, has CP recursion (tho now limited) and for only 100 points more I can get 9 Mortars.

SoB are unlikely to replace them unless you put a really high value on the DtW.

**Creeping Dementia**

Ordana wrote:
The problem with the Faithful 17 is the same problem you always run into when trying to replace the Loyal 32.
The Guard is cheaper, has more bodies with better synergy, has CP recursion (tho now limited) and for only 100 points more I can get 9 Mortars.

SoB are unlikely to replace them unless you put a really high value on the DtW.

I don't think anyone is saying the Faithful 17 is going to completely replace the Loyal 32. It is another option though, and an option that gets you a large number of DtW attempts and other strats that may be useful. You could always take both sets too if you really want to pour on the cheese.
Something like this

Spoiler:

Most imoortantly, it's an option for the Sisters to do... Something. It may be their best or only job they do well in the current incarnation of their codex.

**G00fySmiley**

SOB seem cool. I like them but they are still per CA not at the power level of Imperial Guard. they are more durable but less firepower and less versatile. I more get the impression of them being on the same plane as Admech as the tier 2 imperial ally and will not be unseatign the IG cheap batallions in tournies any time soon.

**Ordana**

SoB's certainly look like an alternative to AdMech for a min battalion yes.

**Dovis**

Mmmpi wrote:
So now your army has sisters, DW and what else? Oh, and that DW unit is how many points again (400+) and uses even more command points for anti-horde?

Also, how it said unit in more than one place?

So yeah.

Just pointing out possibilities, single orc 30 boy squad charge is a waste of 30 boys, never seen it used efficiently when opponent knows how to position.

You can put 15 point characters for that if you're SOB, you can use cyberwolves if you're a space wolf, you can use scouts...

Removed, mind your manners please - BrookM

**sfshilo**

Mmmpi wrote:
Why? They're not worth it.

Yup, so pray tell, how are sisters supposed to kill armor if their armor killing unit is being given stormbolters?

Also, just 24 orks? So...only 156 to go...

They have immolators, the best pound for point anti vehicle tank in the game.

**Unit1126PLL**

sfshilo wrote:
Mmmpi wrote:
Why? They're not worth it.

Yup, so pray tell, how are sisters supposed to kill armor if their armor killing unit is being given stormbolters?

Also, just 24 orks? So...only 156 to go...

They have immolators, the best pound for point anti vehicle tank in the game.

wait what why?

**deviantduck**

Dovis wrote:
Mmmpi wrote:
So now your army has sisters, DW and what else? Oh, and that DW unit is how many points again (400+) and uses even more command points for anti-horde?

Also, how it said unit in more than one place?

So yeah.

Just pointing out possibilities, single orc 30 boy squad charge is a waste of 30 boys, never seen it used efficiently when opponent knows how to position.

You can put 15 point characters for that if you're SOB, you can use cyberwolves if you're a space wolf, you can use scouts...

Removed, mind your manners please - BrookM

You're a fool if you aren't terrified by a 30 deep squad of boys with 125 attacks coming at you. With 'ere we go they don't fail charges and they're big enough to to conga line around a second unit that they didn't charge so they can pile in and surround a unit they can't swing at guaranteeing you can't fall back next turn. If you think you're going to kill enough boyz in overwatch to dent the unit, you're dreaming. Warpath + Da Jump + 30 Boyz is one of the best things in the game right now.

**Dovis**

deviantduck wrote:
Dovis wrote:
Mmmpi wrote:
So now your army has sisters, DW and what else? Oh, and that DW unit is how many points again (400+) and uses even more command points for anti-horde?

Also, how it said unit in more than one place?

So yeah.

Just pointing out possibilities, single orc 30 boy squad charge is a waste of 30 boys, never seen it used efficiently when opponent knows how to position.

You can put 15 point characters for that if you're SOB, you can use cyberwolves if you're a space wolf, you can use scouts...

Removed, mind your manners please - BrookM
You're a fool if you aren't terrified by a 30 deep squad of boys with 125 attacks coming at you. With 'ere we go they don't fail charges and they're big enough to to conga line around a second unit that they didn't charge so they can pile in and surround a unit they can't swing at guaranteeing you can't fall back next turn. If you think you're going to kill enough boyz in overwatch to dent the unit, you're dreaming. Warpath + Da Jump + 30 Boyz is one of the best things in the game right now.

Just google on how to spread the 9" bubble of area denial, you're trying to spook me with a tactic that only works on noobs, don't insult your own intelligence like that.

This topic is going off rails so I suspect a lock

**Amishprn86**

deviantduck wrote:
Dovis wrote:
Mmmpi wrote:
So now your army has sisters, DW and what else? Oh, and that DW unit is how many points again (400+) and uses even more command points for anti-horde?

Also, how it said unit in more than one place?

So yeah.

Just pointing out possibilities, single orc 30 boy squad charge is a waste of 30 boys, never seen it used efficiently when opponent knows how to position.

You can put 15 point characters for that if you're SOB, you can use cyberwolves if you're a space wolf, you can use scouts...

Removed, mind your manners please - BrookM
You're a fool if you aren't terrified by a 30 deep squad of boys with 125 attacks coming at you. With 'ere we go they don't fail charges and they're big enough to to conga line around a second unit that they didn't charge so they can pile in and surround a unit they can't swing at guaranteeing you can't fall back next turn. If you think you're going to kill enough boyz in overwatch to dent the unit, you're dreaming. Warpath + Da Jump + 30 Boyz is one of the best things in the game right now.

But.... Arcos can have 81 attacks at S5 -1ap, re-roll all hits and can re-roll wounds for CP, its for less points too, but only 18 wounds, tell will always kill a 30man unit of Orks if they charge, ALWAYS. (they actually do 48 wounds to Ork Boys)

**deviantduck**

Dovis wrote:
deviantduck wrote:
Dovis wrote:
Mmmpi wrote:
So now your army has sisters, DW and what else? Oh, and that DW unit is how many points again (400+) and uses even more command points for anti-horde?

Also, how it said unit in more than one place?

So yeah.

Just pointing out possibilities, single orc 30 boy squad charge is a waste of 30 boys, never seen it used efficiently when opponent knows how to position.

You can put 15 point characters for that if you're SOB, you can use cyberwolves if you're a space wolf, you can use scouts...

Removed, mind your manners please - BrookM
You're a fool if you aren't terrified by a 30 deep squad of boys with 125 attacks coming at you. With 'ere we go they don't fail charges and they're big enough to to conga line around a second unit that they didn't charge so they can pile in and surround a unit they can't swing at guaranteeing you can't fall back next turn. If you think you're going to kill enough boyz in overwatch to dent the unit, you're dreaming. Warpath + Da Jump + 30 Boyz is one of the best things in the game right now.

Just google on how to spread the 9" bubble of area denial, you're trying to spook me with a tactic that only works on noobs, don't insult your own intelligence like that.

This topic is going off rails so I suspect a lock

Ok.

**Mmmpi**

Spoiler:

No, you intended to sound offensive. REMOVED - BrookM

No one is scared of 30 boyz. But 30 boyz can tie up quite a bit, and orks as a whole can put out quite a bit of firepower. I seem to recall lootas being a thing...
So you can shove you "I'm a board game badass" routine for someone who cares.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Spoiler:

And this guy gets it.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Spoiler:

I imagine a fore mentioned lootas can deal with chaff. It's not like the deepstrikers block line of sight.

And topics do get locked when people ignore the civility rules.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Spoiler:

TiL two multi-meltas with a movement penalty is good AT.

Seriously though. There are better AT options in the sisters army. Melta Dominions for example.

**BrookM**

Hey guys, next time report and don't requote the offending bit all the time, saves me a LOT of cleaning up afterwards..

**JNAProductions**

I don't have the Sisters Beta Dex at the moment, but if anyone wants me to do math, I can do math.

**TwinPoleTheory**

JNAProductions wrote:
I don't have the Sisters Beta Dex at the moment, but if anyone wants me to do math, I can do math.

It hasn't changed enough to warrant that kind of time investment. They have some interesting tricks, but still carry the same flaws Sisters have carried for multiple editions, lackluster hand to hand, poor weapon variety, poor range, and not quite cheap enough to make me ignore those flaws.

But perhaps I'm missing the nuance.